Jaylen Traded to PHI for PG, 2 First Round Picks & 2 Second Round Picks

[Who]

Quote on Jaylen's personality

Chad Finn‬: I'll also say that I've been in a few rooms with Jaylen over the years, like the "Celtics City" premiere. All I ever saw was someone who was effortlessly engaging and didn't act above anyone. Really admirable people-person. He's had to deal with the "too smart" crap since before the draft.

Bob Myers on Jaylen's bad analytics

NBA Hoops: Bob Myers defends Jaylen Brown after Max Kellerman said analytics dont favor him. Myers points out, ?You know who else analytics didnt favor - Klay Thompson. Analytics doesn?t value the nuances of the game like shutting down the opposing teams best player."

Jeff Teague on what playing with Jaylen was like

Tsoj: Jeff Teague says the Jaylen Brown hate makes ZERO sense after being teammates on the Celtics. "They just start making up Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. about him. I played on a team with him, he a cool ass n***a. He stays to himself. He still f*ck with everybody, talk to everybody cool... He doesn't do anything wrong, he doesn't hate on nobody."

The analytics where JB performs poorly rated Klay quite well prior to his ACL and Achilles injury.  I like how now that Jaylen has been traded ESPN is trying to be nice to him, after dragging him through the mud for two months.

Do they? Which ones?

I thought Klay typically rated poorly in most advanced stats.

[Celtics2021]

Quote on Jaylen's personality

Chad Finn‬: I'll also say that I've been in a few rooms with Jaylen over the years, like the "Celtics City" premiere. All I ever saw was someone who was effortlessly engaging and didn't act above anyone. Really admirable people-person. He's had to deal with the "too smart" crap since before the draft.

Bob Myers on Jaylen's bad analytics

NBA Hoops: Bob Myers defends Jaylen Brown after Max Kellerman said analytics dont favor him. Myers points out, ?You know who else analytics didnt favor - Klay Thompson. Analytics doesn?t value the nuances of the game like shutting down the opposing teams best player."

Jeff Teague on what playing with Jaylen was like

Tsoj: Jeff Teague says the Jaylen Brown hate makes ZERO sense after being teammates on the Celtics. "They just start making up Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. about him. I played on a team with him, he a cool ass n***a. He stays to himself. He still f*ck with everybody, talk to everybody cool... He doesn't do anything wrong, he doesn't hate on nobody."

The analytics where JB performs poorly rated Klay quite well prior to his ACL and Achilles injury.  I like how now that Jaylen has been traded ESPN is trying to be nice to him, after dragging him through the mud for two months.

Do they? Which ones?

I thought Klay typically rated poorly in most advanced stats.

He was ranked between 15-28 by DARKO from 2015-2018.  Ranked 13-50 by RAPTOR during that same period (so a little more variance, but seeing a guy as 13 for a year is not being down on him.  RAPTOR shut down after the 22-23 season, but neve has JB above 50 for comparison).  MAMBA ranked Klay 15-41 in those peak years, while JB has never been better than 62, and last year was a crazy 108th. (For sanity check purposes, SGA, Doncic, Jokic, and Wemby were 1-4 last year).

Anyway, maybe Bob Myers thought Klay should be top 5 at his peak instead of top 20, but he was not loathed by the advance stats until his athleticism was sapped.

[Who]

NBA Hoops: Bob Myers defends Jaylen Brown after Max Kellerman said analytics dont favor him. Myers points out, ?You know who else analytics didnt favor - Klay Thompson. Analytics doesn?t value the nuances of the game like shutting down the opposing teams best player."

The analytics where JB performs poorly rated Klay quite well prior to his ACL and Achilles injury.  I like how now that Jaylen has been traded ESPN is trying to be nice to him, after dragging him through the mud for two months.

Do they? Which ones?

I thought Klay typically rated poorly in most advanced stats.

He was ranked between 15-28 by DARKO from 2015-2018.  Ranked 13-50 by RAPTOR during that same period (so a little more variance, but seeing a guy as 13 for a year is not being down on him.  RAPTOR shut down after the 22-23 season, but neve has JB above 50 for comparison).  MAMBA ranked Klay 15-41 in those peak years, while JB has never been better than 62, and last year was a crazy 108th. (For sanity check purposes, SGA, Doncic, Jokic, and Wemby were 1-4 last year).

Anyway, maybe Bob Myers thought Klay should be top 5 at his peak instead of top 20, but he was not loathed by the advance stats until his athleticism was sapped.

BPM = Klay had one good year in 2014-15 when he had a 4.4. Every other season -0.3 to 0.8 with one year of 1.8.

His defensive BPM regularly clocked him as a large negative with scores from -1.4 to -2.1 from 2015-16 to 2018-19.

VORP = similar, one good year in 2014-15 with 4.0. His other years were 1.3, 2.0, 2.5, 1.9, 1.0, 1.2. Never impressive outside of that one season.

RAPM = this is from his rookie season 2011-12 to 2023-24. He had a +2.1 on offense and was a -1.2 on defense for an overall score of +0.9. Not impressive either.

-----

I remember at the time there was a lot of talk about advanced stats not liking Klay and in particular not liking his defense. They would regularly say negative to neutral defensively while many writers / analysts were calling for him to be on the All-Defensive teams.

[Celtics2021]

NBA Hoops: Bob Myers defends Jaylen Brown after Max Kellerman said analytics dont favor him. Myers points out, ?You know who else analytics didnt favor - Klay Thompson. Analytics doesn?t value the nuances of the game like shutting down the opposing teams best player."

The analytics where JB performs poorly rated Klay quite well prior to his ACL and Achilles injury.  I like how now that Jaylen has been traded ESPN is trying to be nice to him, after dragging him through the mud for two months.

Do they? Which ones?

I thought Klay typically rated poorly in most advanced stats.

He was ranked between 15-28 by DARKO from 2015-2018.  Ranked 13-50 by RAPTOR during that same period (so a little more variance, but seeing a guy as 13 for a year is not being down on him.  RAPTOR shut down after the 22-23 season, but neve has JB above 50 for comparison).  MAMBA ranked Klay 15-41 in those peak years, while JB has never been better than 62, and last year was a crazy 108th. (For sanity check purposes, SGA, Doncic, Jokic, and Wemby were 1-4 last year).

Anyway, maybe Bob Myers thought Klay should be top 5 at his peak instead of top 20, but he was not loathed by the advance stats until his athleticism was sapped.

BPM = Klay had one good year in 2014-15 when he had a 4.4. Every other season -0.3 to 0.8 with one year of 1.8.

His defensive BPM regularly clocked him as a large negative with scores from -1.4 to -2.1 from 2015-16 to 2018-19.

VORP = similar, one good year in 2014-15 with 4.0. His other years were 1.3, 2.0, 2.5, 1.9, 1.0, 1.2. Never impressive outside of that one season.

RAPM = this is from his rookie season 2011-12 to 2023-24. He had a +2.1 on offense and was a -1.2 on defense for an overall score of +0.9. Not impressive either.

-----

I remember at the time there was a lot of talk about advanced stats not liking Klay and in particular not liking his defense. They would regularly say negative to neutral defensively while many writers / analysts were calling for him to be on the All-Defensive teams.

Right, but JB is fine in those stats after his first few years, I believe.  JB does poorly in stats that include some sort of on/off measure.  Klay was fine in those prior to the injuries.  He was not very good defensively, it is true, but his offense more than made up for it.

[Who]

NBA Hoops: Bob Myers defends Jaylen Brown after Max Kellerman said analytics dont favor him. Myers points out, ?You know who else analytics didnt favor - Klay Thompson. Analytics doesn?t value the nuances of the game like shutting down the opposing teams best player."

The analytics where JB performs poorly rated Klay quite well prior to his ACL and Achilles injury.  I like how now that Jaylen has been traded ESPN is trying to be nice to him, after dragging him through the mud for two months.

Do they? Which ones?

I thought Klay typically rated poorly in most advanced stats.

He was ranked between 15-28 by DARKO from 2015-2018.  Ranked 13-50 by RAPTOR during that same period (so a little more variance, but seeing a guy as 13 for a year is not being down on him.  RAPTOR shut down after the 22-23 season, but neve has JB above 50 for comparison).  MAMBA ranked Klay 15-41 in those peak years, while JB has never been better than 62, and last year was a crazy 108th. (For sanity check purposes, SGA, Doncic, Jokic, and Wemby were 1-4 last year).

Anyway, maybe Bob Myers thought Klay should be top 5 at his peak instead of top 20, but he was not loathed by the advance stats until his athleticism was sapped.

BPM = Klay had one good year in 2014-15 when he had a 4.4. Every other season -0.3 to 0.8 with one year of 1.8.

His defensive BPM regularly clocked him as a large negative with scores from -1.4 to -2.1 from 2015-16 to 2018-19.

VORP = similar, one good year in 2014-15 with 4.0. His other years were 1.3, 2.0, 2.5, 1.9, 1.0, 1.2. Never impressive outside of that one season.

RAPM = this is from his rookie season 2011-12 to 2023-24. He had a +2.1 on offense and was a -1.2 on defense for an overall score of +0.9. Not impressive either.

-----

I remember at the time there was a lot of talk about advanced stats not liking Klay and in particular not liking his defense. They would regularly say negative to neutral defensively while many writers / analysts were calling for him to be on the All-Defensive teams.

Right, but JB is fine in those stats after his first few years, I believe.  JB does poorly in stats that include some sort of on/off measure.  Klay was fine in those prior to the injuries.  He was not very good defensively, it is true, but his offense more than made up for it.

Not really. Jaylen's numbers are similar to Klay.

I will start in 2019-20 on to this season.

BPM = 0.8, 2.5, 2.1, 1.3, 0.7, 0.0, 3.3
VORP = 1.4, 2.3, 2.2, 2.0, 1.6, 1.1, 3.3
RAPM = 2016-24 = 0.0 for off, 0.5 for def, 0.5 overall

Averages = Klay vs Jaylen

BPM = Klay was 2.3 OPM -1.1 DPM for 1.2 BPM over a 6 year period before his injury. Jaylen was 1.8 OPM -0.2 DPM for 1.6 BPM over a 7 year period.

VORP = 2.1 for Klay vs 2.0 for Jaylen

RAPM up to 2024 = 0.9 for Klay vs 0.5 for Jaylen

------------

That is why I was surprised some advanced stats liked Klay. Most of the ones I know of disliked him and I remember it from the time period. Similar to Jaylen. That is why I was wondering which ones were different - which ones liked Klay.