Celtics/Magic Trade

[Goldstar88]

I don't think the Magic trade Banchero straight up for Brown

Yeah, I wouldn't if I were them. Jaylen is too old.

At least with Giannis there is a discussion because Giannis is a genuine MVP talent. So the upgrade from Banchero to Giannis is large enough to justify it.

The upgrade from Banchero to Jaylen isn't enough. Not for the age gap. Orlando got another 10+ years of star level play from Banchero.

How is JB too old? Bane is turning 28 next month. Carter Jr is 27. Suggs and F. Wagner are both turning 25. Rockets recently traded for a 37 year old KD. You could sell me on Durant being too old.

Banchero is 23 years old
Jaylen is 29 years old

There is a 6 year gap. 6 years of extra play from Banchero over Jaylen. Banchero has a good 10-12 year window in Orlando. Jaylen would have a 4-6 year window.

So are the Magic trading Bane and Carter Jr as they are getting too old? JB is closer to their age than Paolo is. If JB elevates their team over the next 4-6 years, that?s a good trade.

They don't matter. D Bane and W Carter do not matter.

Their franchise is built around F Wagner and Banchero.

Bane is a hired gun as a 3rd option. W Carter and Suggs are role players. They don't change the equation. Franz Wagner and Banchero  do matter. They are the franchise.

The Magic gave up four first round picks to get Bane. He?s their best shooter and is an averaging 20ppg with 48/39/91 shooting splits. What do you mean he doesn?t matter? I?d rather have Bane that F. Wagner. 

[Who]

I don't think the Magic trade Banchero straight up for Brown

Yeah, I wouldn't if I were them. Jaylen is too old.

At least with Giannis there is a discussion because Giannis is a genuine MVP talent. So the upgrade from Banchero to Giannis is large enough to justify it.

The upgrade from Banchero to Jaylen isn't enough. Not for the age gap. Orlando got another 10+ years of star level play from Banchero.

How is JB too old? Bane is turning 28 next month. Carter Jr is 27. Suggs and F. Wagner are both turning 25. Rockets recently traded for a 37 year old KD. You could sell me on Durant being too old.

Banchero is 23 years old
Jaylen is 29 years old

There is a 6 year gap. 6 years of extra play from Banchero over Jaylen. Banchero has a good 10-12 year window in Orlando. Jaylen would have a 4-6 year window.

So are the Magic trading Bane and Carter Jr as they are getting too old? JB is closer to their age than Paolo is. If JB elevates their team over the next 4-6 years, that?s a good trade.

They don't matter. D Bane and W Carter do not matter.

Their franchise is built around F Wagner and Banchero.

Bane is a hired gun as a 3rd option. W Carter and Suggs are role players. They don't change the equation. Franz Wagner and Banchero  do matter. They are the franchise.

The Magic gave up four first round picks to get Bane. He?s their best shooter and is an averaging 20ppg with 48/39/91 shooting splits. What do you mean he doesn?t matter? I?d rather have Bane that F. Wagner.

It is like BOS making decisions based on D White. We don't. We make decisions based on Tatum & Jaylen.

D Bane is not at that level.

If we look at all the playoff teams and title contenders, on how many of those teams is he the best player? None. On how many is he the 2nd best player? Maybe a couple. DET is the only contender I can think of where he would be the 2nd best player. He is a 3rd option.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I don't think the Magic trade Banchero straight up for Brown

Yeah, I wouldn't if I were them. Jaylen is too old.

At least with Giannis there is a discussion because Giannis is a genuine MVP talent. So the upgrade from Banchero to Giannis is large enough to justify it.

The upgrade from Banchero to Jaylen isn't enough. Not for the age gap. Orlando got another 10+ years of star level play from Banchero.

How is JB too old? Bane is turning 28 next month. Carter Jr is 27. Suggs and F. Wagner are both turning 25. Rockets recently traded for a 37 year old KD. You could sell me on Durant being too old.

Banchero is 23 years old
Jaylen is 29 years old

There is a 6 year gap. 6 years of extra play from Banchero over Jaylen. Banchero has a good 10-12 year window in Orlando. Jaylen would have a 4-6 year window.

So are the Magic trading Bane and Carter Jr as they are getting too old? JB is closer to their age than Paolo is. If JB elevates their team over the next 4-6 years, that?s a good trade.

They don't matter. D Bane and W Carter do not matter.

Their franchise is built around F Wagner and Banchero.

Bane is a hired gun as a 3rd option. W Carter and Suggs are role players. They don't change the equation. Franz Wagner and Banchero  do matter. They are the franchise.

The Magic gave up four first round picks to get Bane. He?s their best shooter and is an averaging 20ppg with 48/39/91 shooting splits. What do you mean he doesn?t matter? I?d rather have Bane that F. Wagner.

It is like BOS making decisions based on D White. We don't. We make decisions based on Tatum & Jaylen.

D Bane is not at that level.

If we look at all the playoff teams and title contenders, on how many of those teams is he the best player? None. On how many is he the 2nd best player? Maybe a couple. DET is the only contender I can think of where he would be the 2nd best player. He is a 3rd option.

I get your point here, but the problem is that neither Banchero or Wagner are at that level (yet?). They are good talents, but they have yet to prove if they can be All-NBA talents, or in Wagner's case, all-star talents.

Bane and Wagner are closer to the same level than you are saying here, but Wagner is younger and has a chance to keep getting better.

[Moranis]

There is an argument that Banchero is better than Brown right now.  He is a more efficient scorer (1.378 pps vs. 1.323 pps), better rebounder, more assists, less turnovers, with a much lower usage.  Plus he is a lot younger and has a more manageable contract. Brown took a lot more shots, thus scored more. 

There is 0 chance the Magic trade Banchero for just Brown.  Boston would have to send other assets, especially since the salary doesn't match and the Magic don't have bad contracts to make up the difference. 

[Goldstar88]

It's a weird trade that I don't think either team would do.

Boston's problem has been getting to the rim. Trading out their best player at getting to the rim for a guy who struggles (despite his size) at getting all the way to the rim would hurt that.

The Magic's roster is already kinda' weird. I don't think the geometry of Brown, Wagner, and Bane works better than it does with Banchero.

Banchero doesn?t struggle to get to the rim at all. He averages 8 free throws a game for his career. Jaylens career average is about half of that number.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

It's a weird trade that I don't think either team would do.

Boston's problem has been getting to the rim. Trading out their best player at getting to the rim for a guy who struggles (despite his size) at getting all the way to the rim would hurt that.

The Magic's roster is already kinda' weird. I don't think the geometry of Brown, Wagner, and Bane works better than it does with Banchero.

Banchero doesn?t struggle to get to the rim at all. He averages 8 free throws a game for his career. Jaylens career average is about half of that number.

Just what I see. I guess you could argue from stats that's not the case. But when I watch the game, he picks his dribbles up to soon to shoot floaters that don't go in, or to takes off-balance "layups" that miss. Maybe my eyes are lying to me, because as others have pointed out, his advanced stats aren't bad.

[Who]

It's a weird trade that I don't think either team would do.

Boston's problem has been getting to the rim. Trading out their best player at getting to the rim for a guy who struggles (despite his size) at getting all the way to the rim would hurt that.

The Magic's roster is already kinda' weird. I don't think the geometry of Brown, Wagner, and Bane works better than it does with Banchero.

Banchero doesn?t struggle to get to the rim at all. He averages 8 free throws a game for his career. Jaylens career average is about half of that number.

Just what I see. I guess you could argue from stats that's not the case. But when I watch the game, he picks his dribbles up to soon to shoot floaters that don't go in, or to takes off-balance "layups" that miss. Maybe my eyes are lying to me, because as others have pointed out, his advanced stats aren't bad.

Jaylen is better at attacking from different spots.

Banchero is more reliant on dribble drives on from 25 feet against a set defense. It is harder. Jaylen does his share of these as well but he mixes it with drives from other areas where the defense isn't loaded up against him. He can get by others easier as a result.

Banchero doesn't do this in Orlando. They don't have the team offense. They don't have the spacing. Nor do they have the ball-handlers & playmaking. So their offense is almost all Banchero or F Wagner doing PnR or isolations of matchup hunting on switches from 25 feet.

So a large chunk of that is just Orlando's limited offense.

Another part of it is individual quality from Jaylen. Jaylen is a superior shot-maker from 3, long twos, midrange twos. So defenses have to respect him more. He is a threat to score from more areas of the floor whereas any time Banchero shoots a jumper it is a win for the defense. They just want to keep him outside the paint. Jaylen on the other hand is one of the better 2 point jump-shooters in the league and a decent 3pt shooter as well. This shooting quality both forces defenses to cover him differently and makes Jaylen more of a scoring threat from different areas allowing him to attack from more variety of spots than Banchero currently can. 

[slamtheking]

It's a weird trade that I don't think either team would do.

Boston's problem has been getting to the rim. Trading out their best player at getting to the rim for a guy who struggles (despite his size) at getting all the way to the rim would hurt that.

The Magic's roster is already kinda' weird. I don't think the geometry of Brown, Wagner, and Bane works better than it does with Banchero.

Banchero doesn?t struggle to get to the rim at all. He averages 8 free throws a game for his career. Jaylens career average is about half of that number.

FTs per game is a deceptive stat to rely on.  that presumes every player gets the same whistle and as we've seen for years, JB gets a crappy whistle.

[Celtics4ever]

It is like BOS making decisions based on D White. We don't. We make decisions based on Tatum & Jaylen.

D Bane is not at that level.

If we look at all the playoff teams and title contenders, on how many of those teams is he the best player? None. On how many is he the 2nd best player? Maybe a couple. DET is the only contender I can think of where he would be the 2nd best player. He is a 3rd option.

No they overpaid for Bane and were desperate for shooting.  I think they still are to some degree that is why I suggested Hauser for Carter, we would have to sweeten the pot with pick but instant center upgrade.

I still think trying to get the odd man out in San Antonio D"Aaron Fox, for Derrick White.  Fox would make our back court much more athletic and he could stay in front of Maxey.   

These two deals keep Brown and Tatum, I know they are long shots and probably unrealistic or too optimistic.  But I think CLE has a better offer for Giannis that we can offer with Mobley.

 I think White could be the guy traded and Hauser due to the athletic comments by Stevens.  It may bode poorly for Schiermann too, but I thought he came on strong this year could he take over Hauser's role.