Time for a change?

[Goldstar88]

The Celtics in 24 are  the only champions since the 1980's to win a championship without a MVP or DPOY on the roster (i.e. a player on the team had won it already).  The odds of that happening again are thus very small.  So either Tatum needs to win the league MVP, White needs to win DPOY, or they need to trade for that player. 

Also, the Knicks are the only team left that doesn't have a dpoy or mvp on their roster.  The Cavs have both (harden and mobley), the Thunder have the 2 time mvp, and the spurs have the dpoy.  So that string will likely continue again this year.

Someone else already said it but if we trade for Giannis, then BOS will have a past MVP and be able to win a title per the criteria.  And the fact that Tatum and Brown won a title together very recently without being an MVP or DPOY weakens the thesis quite a bit.  It is not like some random team did it in the past, these specific players did it recently.

I don't dispute that winning a title with Tatum-Brown or Tatum-Giannis is going to be harder going forward than it was in 2024.  But the alternative is to go through a period of seasons where the team is totally bad in the hopes that maybe they will come out of it and be good.  SAS and OKC were bad for a lot of seasons.  DET too.  BKN, SAC and several other teams are still bad.  PHI has been bad for a really long time and still is not title good.

The way I see it, Tatum-Brown or Tatum-Giannis have a chance to win a title in the next say 3 seasons.  If you blow it up, you will be bad for up to 5 seasons, and after all that, you may not even have a better chance to win a title than you do right now.  There is a guarantee that the team will be bad, but no guarantee that the team after 5 seasons will be title good.  That process is inevitable, I am just not in any hurry to start it.

Or the fact that Tatum and Brown won a title makes it even more unlikely they will win another one since that has never happened in the history of the sport i.e. there is no 2-time champion that meets that criteria. 

Giannis is a signficantly better player than Brown.  He obviously has more health concerns and is older, but he would significantly increase Boston's likelihood of winning a title if he is healthy for a playoff run.

Also, Giannis might be the best defender for Wemby. He?d give the Celtics a chance. Guys are playing at a high level longer into their careers (E.G. LeBron, Steph, KD, Kawhi, Harden, Butler). If Giannis can stay elite until age 35, it?s worth it.

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/J9b-WLZN9VQ?ra=m

[Phantom255x]

Vuc walks.

Brad adds a serviceable big (to start) and a guard to bolster the bench with the exceptions they have.

Resign PP, Queta and they shop JB but in the end they extend Brown (which is a whole other discussion to have). Walsh gets picked up.

So same team as last season with a healthy Tatum, another big and a guard...plus their top draft pick. They manage the cap for one more year.

Hopefully 2027 they splurge.

And they lose in the 1st or 2nd round again and waste another year while their tradeable players lose value.

Not gonna lie, I don't hate that approach though. Because right now the Spurs/Thunder and even the Knicks to me are better. The best shot the C's have is to reset the repeater tax next year, keep building with the guys, and then splurge similar to 2024 and make one last push with Jaylen + Tatum. I don't think trading Jaylen for Giannis is gonna ultimately push us beyond OKC/SAS/NY right now, they need multiple moves and probably a crafty or innovative move mixed in (similar to Stevens trading for White in 2022 and Brogdon 2023, or obviously getting BOTH KP + Jrue in 2024)

I'm currently occupied with classes lol (thankfully we're done after tomorrow!) but I'll start to think of specific names/ideas more then but personally I'd keep Jaylen and make moves around the Jays (White, Hauser, Walsh can be traded/offloaded).

Like others have said too, I feel this even more now. Their best bet to make one last run with Jaylen + Tatum is to splurge after resetting the repeater penalties after 2027, and maybe hope the Spurs/Thunder take a slight step back in that time (or someone gets hurt, not that I'm "rooting" for it).

Remember, a lot of times people (myself included) thought Giannis would run the league, or Jokic and their teams, etc. yet usually they fizzle out for whatever reason. Sadly the same can probably be said about the Celtics after 2024, it's been a mediocre 2nd round exit in 2025 and then a first round choke this year. Maybe OKC/SAS suffer a similar fate, but yeah for the near future those two teams are at the top with SGA + Wemby.

[celticinorlando]

Getting out of the East should not be a problem. Cavs are not great and they have cap hell coming. Knicks are good but they too at some point will have to deal with the cap.

Raptors, Pistons, could improve. Boston should get the ECF with a few tweaks. But they also could lose in round 1 or 2 if only small changes are introduced.

But they cannot win the NBA title without big changes IMO.

[No Nickname]

The Celtics in 24 are  the only champions since the 1980's to win a championship without a MVP or DPOY on the roster (i.e. a player on the team had won it already).  The odds of that happening again are thus very small.  So either Tatum needs to win the league MVP, White needs to win DPOY, or they need to trade for that player. 

Also, the Knicks are the only team left that doesn't have a dpoy or mvp on their roster.  The Cavs have both (harden and mobley), the Thunder have the 2 time mvp, and the spurs have the dpoy.  So that string will likely continue again this year.

Someone else already said it but if we trade for Giannis, then BOS will have a past MVP and be able to win a title per the criteria.  And the fact that Tatum and Brown won a title together very recently without being an MVP or DPOY weakens the thesis quite a bit.  It is not like some random team did it in the past, these specific players did it recently.

I don't dispute that winning a title with Tatum-Brown or Tatum-Giannis is going to be harder going forward than it was in 2024.  But the alternative is to go through a period of seasons where the team is totally bad in the hopes that maybe they will come out of it and be good.  SAS and OKC were bad for a lot of seasons.  DET too.  BKN, SAC and several other teams are still bad.  PHI has been bad for a really long time and still is not title good.

The way I see it, Tatum-Brown or Tatum-Giannis have a chance to win a title in the next say 3 seasons.  If you blow it up, you will be bad for up to 5 seasons, and after all that, you may not even have a better chance to win a title than you do right now.  There is a guarantee that the team will be bad, but no guarantee that the team after 5 seasons will be title good.  That process is inevitable, I am just not in any hurry to start it.

Or the fact that Tatum and Brown won a title makes it even more unlikely they will win another one since that has never happened in the history of the sport i.e. there is no 2-time champion that meets that criteria. 

Giannis is a signficantly better player than Brown.  He obviously has more health concerns and is older, but he would significantly increase Boston's likelihood of winning a title if he is healthy for a playoff run.

Also, Giannis might be the best defender for Wemby. He?d give the Celtics a chance. Guys are playing at a high level longer into their careers (E.G. LeBron, Steph, KD, Kawhi, Harden, Butler). If Giannis can stay elite until age 35, it?s worth it.

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/J9b-WLZN9VQ?ra=m

I totally agree with your rationale above.

I'm looking for a three-team trade with BOS/MIL/ATL that works on the trade machine and came up with this.

MIL: Jalen Johnson / Kispert / Buddy Hield
BOS: Giannis / Cormac Ryan / Atlanta 2026 1st (#23) / Atlanta 2026 2nd (#57)
ATL: Jaylen Brown / Payton Pritchard / Boston 2026 Pick (#27)

I know folks will balk at giving up Payton Pritchard but there's a rationale for this.

--Milwaukee won't want Brown. It won't fit their rebuild timeline. But Atlanta would.

--Milwaukee would only do a deal for Jalen Johnson (even though JJ is more valuable than Giannis factoring in age/health).

--Milwaukee wants "Young star and picks" but since JJ is more valuable than Giannis, no picks will need to go to Milwaukee. Jalen Johnson will only be 25 this Dec, and while he's not an MVP-level player, he has another 10 years of All NBA potential.

--Atlanta probably wouldn't even do a straight up trade of JJ for Jaylen Brown, so the deal would need to be sweetened for Atlanta so we'll include Pritchard (6MOY / 17ppg).

--Atlanta would have to send out $$ to make this work, I'm assuming Kispert (9ppg) and Hield (8ppg) are dispensable and replaceable.

--Boston is giving up a lot in Brown/Pritchard, so they need something more than Giannis in return. So Milwaukee sends Cormac Ryan (14ppg / 46% on 3s / great contract). And a pick swap with Atlanta's 2026 1st rounder (#23) for Boston's (#27). Atlanta also includes their 2nd rounder (#57).

Why this works for Boston:  MVP-calibre big man who fills the need of post scoring, driving, and defense. Injury risk, but he could have another 4-5 great-to-solid years.  Cormac Ryan is a gem, on a great deal, that will replace some of the outside shooting going out.  They move up four spots in the loaded 2026 draft. And they get one of Brad's most favorite things, a late 2nd round pick.

Why this works for Milwaukee: Jalen Johnson, enough said

Why this works for Atlanta: While losing Johnson (turns 25 in Dec), they get 2nd Team All-NBA and Finals MVP Brown, and 6MOY Pritchard (who is on a great contract too).  They lose some outside shooting in Kispert and Hield, but both were meh to below average bench players.  They move down four spots in the draft with the pick swap, but that and their 2nd rounder (#57) are a small price to pay for Pritchard.
   
I'm sure some folks will think that giving up both Brown and Pritchard is too much, but it was necessary for several reasons.

[slamtheking]

The Celtics in 24 are  the only champions since the 1980's to win a championship without a MVP or DPOY on the roster (i.e. a player on the team had won it already).  The odds of that happening again are thus very small.  So either Tatum needs to win the league MVP, White needs to win DPOY, or they need to trade for that player. 

Also, the Knicks are the only team left that doesn't have a dpoy or mvp on their roster.  The Cavs have both (harden and mobley), the Thunder have the 2 time mvp, and the spurs have the dpoy.  So that string will likely continue again this year.

Someone else already said it but if we trade for Giannis, then BOS will have a past MVP and be able to win a title per the criteria.  And the fact that Tatum and Brown won a title together very recently without being an MVP or DPOY weakens the thesis quite a bit.  It is not like some random team did it in the past, these specific players did it recently.

I don't dispute that winning a title with Tatum-Brown or Tatum-Giannis is going to be harder going forward than it was in 2024.  But the alternative is to go through a period of seasons where the team is totally bad in the hopes that maybe they will come out of it and be good.  SAS and OKC were bad for a lot of seasons.  DET too.  BKN, SAC and several other teams are still bad.  PHI has been bad for a really long time and still is not title good.

The way I see it, Tatum-Brown or Tatum-Giannis have a chance to win a title in the next say 3 seasons.  If you blow it up, you will be bad for up to 5 seasons, and after all that, you may not even have a better chance to win a title than you do right now.  There is a guarantee that the team will be bad, but no guarantee that the team after 5 seasons will be title good.  That process is inevitable, I am just not in any hurry to start it.

Or the fact that Tatum and Brown won a title makes it even more unlikely they will win another one since that has never happened in the history of the sport i.e. there is no 2-time champion that meets that criteria. 

Giannis is a signficantly better player than Brown.  He obviously has more health concerns and is older, but he would significantly increase Boston's likelihood of winning a title if he is healthy for a playoff run.

Also, Giannis might be the best defender for Wemby. He?d give the Celtics a chance. Guys are playing at a high level longer into their careers (E.G. LeBron, Steph, KD, Kawhi, Harden, Butler). If Giannis can stay elite until age 35, it?s worth it.

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/J9b-WLZN9VQ?ra=m

I totally agree with your rationale above.

I'm looking for a three-team trade with BOS/MIL/ATL that works on the trade machine and came up with this.

MIL: Jalen Johnson / Kispert / Buddy Hield
BOS: Giannis / Cormac Ryan / Atlanta 2026 1st (#23) / Atlanta 2026 2nd (#57)
ATL: Jaylen Brown / Payton Pritchard / Boston 2026 Pick (#27)

I know folks will balk at giving up Payton Pritchard but there's a rationale for this.

--Milwaukee won't want Brown. It won't fit their rebuild timeline. But Atlanta would.

--Milwaukee would only do a deal for Jalen Johnson (even though JJ is more valuable than Giannis factoring in age/health).

--Milwaukee wants "Young star and picks" but since JJ is more valuable than Giannis, no picks will need to go to Milwaukee. Jalen Johnson will only be 25 this Dec, and while he's not an MVP-level player, he has another 10 years of All NBA potential.

--Atlanta probably wouldn't even do a straight up trade of JJ for Jaylen Brown, so the deal would need to be sweetened for Atlanta so we'll include Pritchard (6MOY / 17ppg).

--Atlanta would have to send out $$ to make this work, I'm assuming Kispert (9ppg) and Hield (8ppg) are dispensable and replaceable.

--Boston is giving up a lot in Brown/Pritchard, so they need something more than Giannis in return. So Milwaukee sends Cormac Ryan (14ppg / 46% on 3s / great contract). And a pick swap with Atlanta's 2026 1st rounder (#23) for Boston's (#27). Atlanta also includes their 2nd rounder (#57).

Why this works for Boston:  MVP-calibre big man who fills the need of post scoring, driving, and defense. Injury risk, but he could have another 4-5 great-to-solid years.  Cormac Ryan is a gem, on a great deal, that will replace some of the outside shooting going out.  They move up four spots in the loaded 2026 draft. And they get one of Brad's most favorite things, a late 2nd round pick.

Why this works for Milwaukee: Jalen Johnson, enough said

Why this works for Atlanta: While losing Johnson (turns 25 in Dec), they get 2nd Team All-NBA and Finals MVP Brown, and 6MOY Pritchard (who is on a great contract too).  They lose some outside shooting in Kispert and Hield, but both were meh to below average bench players.  They move down four spots in the draft with the pick swap, but that and their 2nd rounder (#57) are a small price to pay for Pritchard.
   
I'm sure some folks will think that giving up both Brown and Pritchard is too much, but it was necessary for several reasons.

of all the trade proposals I've seen posted here, this is the one that makes me wonder if it'd be worth it rather than reject it as bad for the C's. 

Having said that, I don't think Mil would touch it.  JJ isn't in Giannis' league and wouldn't be enough.  I could see them wanting the 3 picks you're moving (and probably more) but it's the picks that make up  just enough value for this to be entertained by the C's.

[No Nickname]

The Celtics in 24 are  the only champions since the 1980's to win a championship without a MVP or DPOY on the roster (i.e. a player on the team had won it already).  The odds of that happening again are thus very small.  So either Tatum needs to win the league MVP, White needs to win DPOY, or they need to trade for that player. 

Also, the Knicks are the only team left that doesn't have a dpoy or mvp on their roster.  The Cavs have both (harden and mobley), the Thunder have the 2 time mvp, and the spurs have the dpoy.  So that string will likely continue again this year.

Someone else already said it but if we trade for Giannis, then BOS will have a past MVP and be able to win a title per the criteria.  And the fact that Tatum and Brown won a title together very recently without being an MVP or DPOY weakens the thesis quite a bit.  It is not like some random team did it in the past, these specific players did it recently.

I don't dispute that winning a title with Tatum-Brown or Tatum-Giannis is going to be harder going forward than it was in 2024.  But the alternative is to go through a period of seasons where the team is totally bad in the hopes that maybe they will come out of it and be good.  SAS and OKC were bad for a lot of seasons.  DET too.  BKN, SAC and several other teams are still bad.  PHI has been bad for a really long time and still is not title good.

The way I see it, Tatum-Brown or Tatum-Giannis have a chance to win a title in the next say 3 seasons.  If you blow it up, you will be bad for up to 5 seasons, and after all that, you may not even have a better chance to win a title than you do right now.  There is a guarantee that the team will be bad, but no guarantee that the team after 5 seasons will be title good.  That process is inevitable, I am just not in any hurry to start it.

Or the fact that Tatum and Brown won a title makes it even more unlikely they will win another one since that has never happened in the history of the sport i.e. there is no 2-time champion that meets that criteria. 

Giannis is a signficantly better player than Brown.  He obviously has more health concerns and is older, but he would significantly increase Boston's likelihood of winning a title if he is healthy for a playoff run.

Also, Giannis might be the best defender for Wemby. He?d give the Celtics a chance. Guys are playing at a high level longer into their careers (E.G. LeBron, Steph, KD, Kawhi, Harden, Butler). If Giannis can stay elite until age 35, it?s worth it.

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/J9b-WLZN9VQ?ra=m

I totally agree with your rationale above.

I'm looking for a three-team trade with BOS/MIL/ATL that works on the trade machine and came up with this.

MIL: Jalen Johnson / Kispert / Buddy Hield
BOS: Giannis / Cormac Ryan / Atlanta 2026 1st (#23) / Atlanta 2026 2nd (#57)
ATL: Jaylen Brown / Payton Pritchard / Boston 2026 Pick (#27)

I know folks will balk at giving up Payton Pritchard but there's a rationale for this.

--Milwaukee won't want Brown. It won't fit their rebuild timeline. But Atlanta would.

--Milwaukee would only do a deal for Jalen Johnson (even though JJ is more valuable than Giannis factoring in age/health).

--Milwaukee wants "Young star and picks" but since JJ is more valuable than Giannis, no picks will need to go to Milwaukee. Jalen Johnson will only be 25 this Dec, and while he's not an MVP-level player, he has another 10 years of All NBA potential.

--Atlanta probably wouldn't even do a straight up trade of JJ for Jaylen Brown, so the deal would need to be sweetened for Atlanta so we'll include Pritchard (6MOY / 17ppg).

--Atlanta would have to send out $$ to make this work, I'm assuming Kispert (9ppg) and Hield (8ppg) are dispensable and replaceable.

--Boston is giving up a lot in Brown/Pritchard, so they need something more than Giannis in return. So Milwaukee sends Cormac Ryan (14ppg / 46% on 3s / great contract). And a pick swap with Atlanta's 2026 1st rounder (#23) for Boston's (#27). Atlanta also includes their 2nd rounder (#57).

Why this works for Boston:  MVP-calibre big man who fills the need of post scoring, driving, and defense. Injury risk, but he could have another 4-5 great-to-solid years.  Cormac Ryan is a gem, on a great deal, that will replace some of the outside shooting going out.  They move up four spots in the loaded 2026 draft. And they get one of Brad's most favorite things, a late 2nd round pick.

Why this works for Milwaukee: Jalen Johnson, enough said

Why this works for Atlanta: While losing Johnson (turns 25 in Dec), they get 2nd Team All-NBA and Finals MVP Brown, and 6MOY Pritchard (who is on a great contract too).  They lose some outside shooting in Kispert and Hield, but both were meh to below average bench players.  They move down four spots in the draft with the pick swap, but that and their 2nd rounder (#57) are a small price to pay for Pritchard.
   
I'm sure some folks will think that giving up both Brown and Pritchard is too much, but it was necessary for several reasons.

of all the trade proposals I've seen posted here, this is the one that makes me wonder if it'd be worth it rather than reject it as bad for the C's. 

Having said that, I don't think Mil would touch it.  JJ isn't in Giannis' league and wouldn't be enough.  I could see them wanting the 3 picks you're moving (and probably more) but it's the picks that make up  just enough value for this to be entertained by the C's.

Thanks for sharing your perspective.  With that frame of mind you're basically saying that if salary cap rules didn't apply, that Atlanta would feel like they're getting a steal to get Giannis for Jalen Johnson?

Personally I see it the other way.  Here's what Milwaukee would be getting in Johnson:

All-NBA Awards: Johnson received votes for the All-NBA Third Team after a career-best breakout season where he helped lead the Hawks to the Eastern Conference playoffs.

Players Poll: In an anonymous player poll conducted by The Athletic, Johnson tied with Derrick White to win the vote for the NBA's Most Underrated Player.

All-Star Selection: After finishing in the top 10 for Eastern Conference fan voting, Johnson was officially selected as a reserve for the 2026 NBA All-Star Game by the league's head coaches.

And he's only 24.  And healthy.