2026 HOF class Doc Rivers and Amare Stoudemire

[Donoghus]

* Only player other than Magic and Isiah to average 20-12 in a season.

That's a surprising and impressive stat to me.  12 apg is tough; Steve Nash never got there (nor did he hit 20ppg).  Stockton never had the elite scoring.  But, I would have figured Oscar did it.  Nope.

In fact, only five players have ever had 12+ apg in a season:

Stockton (8x)
Magic (6x)
Isiah (1x)
K. Johnson (1x)
K. Porter (1x)

Wild thing about Kevin Porter was that he led the league in assists 4 times. Never made an all star game.  And only 5 guys have won more assist titles than him.  All HOFers.

[Moranis]

Jokic is 20/10 and 50% for the 2nd straight year.

KJ only has 7 seasons of at least 70 games.  1 is his rookie year.  That simply isn't a long enough career in my view unless the guy is just a monster, which KJ was not. 

And these stats show why it is hard to compare eras. Take Oscar.  He only shot 50% or better twice in his career, but he finished in the top 5, four times and top 10, 4 additional times in FG%.  In 61-62 he finished 4th in FG%, led the league in apg at 11.4, finished 5th in ppg at 30.8, and 9th in rpg at 12.5.  Yet because his fg% was 47.8 he doesnt show up in that stat.  Also that 11.4 apg was 3.4 apg better than Guy Rodgers whose 8.0 was 2nd in the league. Era comparing is just hard to do, which is why things like all star appearances, all nba teams, mvp voting, dpoy voting, etc. in my view are better gauges and comparison tools.  They simply just show how the player was thought of in his time. 

[Who]

Jokic is 20/10 and 50% for the 2nd straight year.

Yeah, I said the trivia was a bit dated. It was from a youtube from 5+yrs ago.

Good to know about Jokic. I'll add him to that list.

And these stats show why it is hard to compare eras. Take Oscar.  He only shot 50% or better twice in his career, but he finished in the top 5, four times and top 10, 4 additional times in FG%.  In 61-62 he finished 4th in FG%, led the league in apg at 11.4, finished 5th in ppg at 30.8, and 9th in rpg at 12.5.  Yet because his fg% was 47.8 he doesnt show up in that stat.  Also that 11.4 apg was 3.4 apg better than Guy Rodgers whose 8.0 was 2nd in the league. Era comparing is just hard to do, which is why things like all star appearances, all nba teams, mvp voting, dpoy voting, etc. in my view are better gauges and comparison tools.  They simply just show how the player was thought of in his time.

Yes. There is some era bias.

The FG% hurts guys from the early eras like Oscar when FG% was lower and the late eras like Steph who shoot a lot of 3s.

Still, that leaves somewhere between 1970-2010 where it was possible for a guard to do that. That is a large window of opportunity where the stats can be compared. That is a 40 year period of guys who can be compared to KJ and were not able to do what he did.

Walt Frazier averaged over 50% an 20ppg 3 times from 1968-73 and averaged 20ppg 50% over the 5 year period. Even in today's league we still have a guard like SGA who doesn't shoot many 3s and manages to shoot over 50% from the field. However, most guard shoot lots of 3s and cannot get to 50% FG anymore.

[Who]

Another way to look at it would be FG% or TS% relative to era. B-ref.com's adjusted TS% number would do that well.

Oscar would get recognized that way. He was one of the most efficient scorers of his era. Not just his strong FG% but also his FT%. He posted adjusted TS+ of 118 from 1960-69. A 9 year stretch where he was 18% above league average for scoring efficiency.

KJ was a 110 for his 9 year stretch 1988-97.
Magic was 114 for 9yrs from 1982-91.
Zeke would be a 97 from 1982-91.

Isaiah was only above league average for TS% once in his career in 1985-86. It was one of his 20-10 seasons. 20.9ppg and 10.8apg. 48.8% FG. His FG% is actually pretty solid from 1982-89 (7yrs) at 46.7%. Solid number for a small guard who takes a number of contested jump-shots. He didn't get to the foul line like any of those other 3 guys though (5.8 FTA on 17.0 FGA = 34.2% FTr which is still well above average for a PG) and did not shoot as well once he got there either (76.9% FT).

The other 3 guys were freaks at getting to the line. Oscar averaged 10.7 FTA on 21.3 FGA for that 9 year stretch. A 50% (slightly above) FTr. Magic was 8.6 FTA on 17.3 FGA for 50% (49.9%). In Magic's final 5 years (not including comeback), he averaged 9.9 FTA on 19.0 FGA after he upped his scoring volume. KJ was at 7.2 FTA on 13.7 FGA. A 52.4% FTr.

KJ was both a high percentage shooter from the floor + a high volume FT getter and maker.

Kevin Johnson had a 9 year stretch from 1988-1997. In that period, KJ averaged 19.8ppg 10.0apg on 49.7% FG and a 59% TS (elite for that period).

[Who]

I am trying to think of other 20-10 PGs to for adjusted TS comparisons.

It is hard to do a plain search now that B-Ref put some of that behind their paywall. To search for individual seasons of 20-10 with say an 8+% over league average TS.

Kevin Johnson had a 9 year stretch from 1988-1997. In that period, KJ averaged 19.8ppg 10.0apg on 49.7% FG and a 59% TS (elite for that period).

Deron had a 5yr peak from 2006-11. 18.6ppg and 10.2apg. 46.9% FG similar to Zeke. An adjusted TS% of 105 so 5% above league average.

Chris Paul had a 9yr stretch from 2007-2016. 19.2ppg and 10.3apg. 48.1% FG. An adjusted TS of 109. 9% above league average. Pretty much the exact same numbers as KJ for scoring, assists and adjusted TS.

Mark Price had a 5yr run from 1988-94 (played only 16gms one year due to injury) where he went for 18.2ppg 8.2apg 48.7% FG with a 113 adjusted TS. Slightly more efficient than CP3 or KJ but a tad less volume in both scoring and assists.

Russell Westbrook has an 8yr run from 2013-21 where he averaged 25.9ppg 10apg and 9.5rpg. He shot 44% FG and had a 97 league adjusted TS (same as Zeke). If we trim it back to a 3yr run when he had large assist numbers with a good FG%, we get 2014-17, Russ had an adjusted TS of 101. 2 years with Durant and 1st year without Durant where he maintained his scoring efficiency. Then it dropped off. From a 100 down to 94.

Tim Hardaway had a 7 year spell from 1990-98. Missed one year with injury. He averaged 20.3ppg and 9.2apg. He shot 44.2% and had a league adjusted TS of 101. It doesn't make a difference to his scoring efficiency if you splice up that period more. He was 100-102 before he got. He was 100-101 as he recovered for 2 years. He was 99-101 for his first 2 full years with Miami. His assists and scoring are higher prior to injury (22.7ppg 10.0apg). He had a down spell under Adelman in 1995-96 before being traded to Miami where his numbers dropped for the first half of the season but was still 17.4ppg 8.6apg for those 2years. Then 19.6ppg 8.4apg for Miami final 2yrs of his prime.

James Harden deserves a mention. From 2016-26, Harden has a 10yr stretch of high assist marks. 26.3ppg and 9.1apg (along with 6.5rpg). He shot a 43.6% FG but had a league adjusted TS of 108. He was at 111 steadily during the Houston portion of his spell before it dropped. It has been 104 since. So he has gotten old. Part of his prime was a strong assist guy (5.8apg to 7.5apg first 4yrs in HOU) before becoming a high assist guy halfway through his prime. So he maintained a 111 adjusted TS (KJ 110) during his prime as a high assist guy. 

John Wall had a 6yr stretch from 2013-19. 20.0ppg and 9.8apg. 43.7% FG (similar to Russ). An adjusted TS of 96.

Bob Cousy never had 10apg due to playing in an era where assists were harder to get. He did top out at 9.5apg so he was close. Another season at 8.9apg. Okay, so an 8yr stretch from 1952-60 where Cousy led the league in assists every season. He averaged 19.6ppg and 8.1apg. His league adjusted TS was 100. He had a good strech from 1951-57 where had 4 seasons with 100-101 TS and 2 seasons of 105-106. After that he dropped off. He had one more 99 season. Two 95s and four 91-93 scores to round out his last 6 seasons of his career. For his career, he was a 98. So closer to Zeke.

Tiny Archibald had a 4-6 year stretch from 1971-76. He only played 34-35 games in 2 of those seasons due to injuries. Over this period, Tiny scored 26.7ppg and added 8.6apg. He shot 46.7% FG (similar as Zeke). He was elite at getting to the foul line with 8.9 FTA against 20.9 FGA which pumped up his TS+ to 109. Similar level as CP3 and KJ.

Lenny Wilkens had an 8yr stretch from 1966-1974 where he averaged 18.9ppg 8apg with a TS+ of 105. Close given that assists were still handed out less in this era than by late 70s / 80s / 90s. He probably would have been in that 9-10apg range.

----------------

The efficiency and the passing but not the scoring.

Steve Nash did not have the scoring but worth a mention. From 2003-12, a 9yr run, Nash went for 16.1ppg and 10.7apg. He did shoot 50+% from the field at 50.6%. Gawd, actually he is 50-40-90 for the whole 9yr run. 50.6% FG 43.4% 3PT 91.2% FT. His league adjusted TS is 116. So he is right up there in between Magic (114) and Oscar (118). Helps show how extraordinary Oscar was.

John Stockton had a 9yr run where he led the league in assists every single season from 1987-96. He obviously doesn't have the points either but I was interested and figured others would be too. 15.7ppg (same as Nash) and an insane 13.1apg. Stockton shot 52.2% FG 38.8% 3PT 82.8% FT. He had a league adjusted TS of 115. In between Magic and Nash. He had a 114 TS+ for his entire career (19yrs!!).

Not the scoring or efficiency.

Jason Kidd has a peak from 1998-2004 where he averaged 16.2ppg and 9.7apg. He shot only 40.7% FG for a league adjusted TS of 97.

The scoring but slightly less assists.

Gary Payton had a 10yr strech from 1993-2003 where he put up 20.8ppg and 7.9apg. He shot 46.8% (similar to prime Zeke) with a league adjusted TS of 101.

The scoring and efficiency but not the assists.

Walt Frazier had an 8yr stretch from 1968-1976 where he averaged 20.7ppg but only 6.7apg (plus 6.6rpg). He shot 49.4% FG and had a 109 TS+. If you split those 8yrs into 2 parts. Frazier's TS+ goes up to 113 for the first four years (Magic was 114, Walt was among the best of the best ever during this period) when he got to the foul line at an excellent rate (43.8% FTr). That FTr dropped to only 25.6% in his next four years and saw his TS+ drop to 105 (Deron Williams level).

Steph Curry has amazing longevity. I am going to go with 2013-26 for him. So 13 seasons. Over that period, he has put up 26.6ppg but only 6.4apg. He shot 47.3% FG 41.8% 3PT 91.5% FT. He has a league adjusted TS of 114. Same as Magic. Again, shows how amazingly efficient Oscar was at 118. Steph is an efficiency machine and Oscar is still ahead of him.

Damian Lillard. I will go from 2015-25. A 10yr stretch. Lillard averaged 26.9ppg 7.0apg on 44.2% FG 37.2% 3PT 90.2% FT for a TS+ of 106 - closer to Deron & post-peak Harden. He had 3 seasons around 110 but was generally around 105.

Kyrie Irving has an 11yr stretch from 2014-2025 (1 less game played than KJ's 9yr stretch). Kyrie averaged 24.6ppg and 5.5apg. He shot 48.1% FG 39.7% 3PT 89.6% FT narrowly missing a 48-40-90. His league adjusted TS was 106. He never got to the FT line at a high rate. Nor took a high number of 3s. Only 2 seasons with 8+ three point attempts per game. Usually in the 6-7 per game range. Kept his TS% lower than his basic shooting numbers would suggest.

The scoring is close but not the efficiency or assists.

Tony Parker had a 9yr stretch from 2005-14 where he averaged 18.6ppg and 6.3apg. He shot 51% FG and had a TS+ of 104 - similar to Deron.

[Moranis]

Marbury actually rates pretty highly using that method.

TS+ is 102 from 99-07 with 20.6 ppg and 7.8 apg.  Never a super apg guy but a consistent top 10 guy finishing as high as 2nd once, 3rd once, and 4th 3 times. 

[Roy H.]

Candace Parker, Amar?e Stoudemire and Doc Rivers headline a nine-member class that has been selected for induction into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame next August. The threesome will be joined by Elena Delle Donne, Mark Few, Joey Crawford, Chamique Holdsclaw, Mike D?Antoni and the 1996 United States Women?s National Team in the Class of 2026, the Hall of Fame announced Saturday

[Donoghus]

Candace Parker, Amar?e Stoudemire and Doc Rivers headline a nine-member class that has been selected for induction into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame next August. The threesome will be joined by Elena Delle Donne, Mark Few, Joey Crawford, Chamique Holdsclaw, Mike D?Antoni and the 1996 United States Women?s National Team in the Class of 2026, the Hall of Fame announced Saturday

Rather lacklaster class.

[Roy H.]

Candace Parker, Amar?e Stoudemire and Doc Rivers headline a nine-member class that has been selected for induction into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame next August. The threesome will be joined by Elena Delle Donne, Mark Few, Joey Crawford, Chamique Holdsclaw, Mike D?Antoni and the 1996 United States Women?s National Team in the Class of 2026, the Hall of Fame announced Saturday

Rather lacklaster class.

Yeah.  I've always thought of the HOF as "you can't tell the story of basketball without including these people".  Basically none of the men in this class meet that standard.  And, Joey Crawford shouldn't be rewarded.

[Donoghus]

Candace Parker, Amar?e Stoudemire and Doc Rivers headline a nine-member class that has been selected for induction into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame next August. The threesome will be joined by Elena Delle Donne, Mark Few, Joey Crawford, Chamique Holdsclaw, Mike D?Antoni and the 1996 United States Women?s National Team in the Class of 2026, the Hall of Fame announced Saturday

Rather lacklaster class.

Yeah.  I've always thought of the HOF as "you can't tell the story of basketball without including these people".  Basically none of the men in this class meet that standard.  And, Joey Crawford shouldn't be rewarded.

Yeah, Candace Parker is easily the best player in this class.

[Who]

Marbury actually rates pretty highly using that method.

TS+ is 102 from 99-07 with 20.6 ppg and 7.8 apg.  Never a super apg guy but a consistent top 10 guy finishing as high as 2nd once, 3rd once, and 4th 3 times.

Made me curious how Allen Iverson rates.

Steph and AI are always related in my mind. Same draft. Same #3 jersey. Steph was better than AI first 2 years before AI surpassed him. Anyway ...

* AI at SG from 1998-04 averaged 28.7ppg 5.2apg on a TS+ of 96. I am surprised. I thought his assists would be higher (in the 6-7 range).

* AI at PG for Philly from 2004-06 put up 31.8ppg 7.4apg on a TS+ of 101. Impressive numbers. Good efficiency.
* AI at SG for Denever from 2006-08 averaged 26.3ppg and 7.2apg with a TS+ of 103.
* So that period from 2004-08, a 4yr stretch, AI averaged 29.1ppg 7.4apg on a TS+ of 102.

Altogether, AI put up a 10yr stretch from 1998-2008 where he averaged 28.9ppg and 6.2apg on a TS+ of 99. Right around league average for scoring efficiency.

[Who]

Another impressive thing about Kevin Johnson ...

So while KJ was the leading man in Phoenix from 1988-1992, Phoenix often played 2 guys alongside him in the starting lineup who offered little offensive capacity. Mark West at center. One year Andrew Lang at center. And Kurt Rambis at forward. Later Tim Perry at forward. Guys who could only shoot layups. So the spacing on that team was bad. At least in the starting lineup. 2 non-shooters. Non-shot creators. Rim finishers.

They were playing 3-on-5 in terms of the starting lineup. KJ was still cooking everybody and putting up 20ppg 10apg 50% FG near 60% TS.

This is different to some other PGs who played 4 on 5 or 5 on 5. How D'Antoni juiced Nash's teams offensive efficiency numbers by playing small with 5 offensive threats with Amare at center and Marion at PF. Instead KJ's teams stayed big and maintained defensive identity. They were able to do that because how unstoppable KJ was -- particulary one-on-one. KJ was the fastest player in the league off the dribble. Could beat anyone one-on-one and get into the paint. Either to finish at the basket / FT line or to draw doubles and create open shots for teammates.

Now, his teams did have offensive lineups as Eddie Johnson (great outside shooting SF) could come in for Kurt Rambis / Tim Perry and give Phoenix a strong offensive group. They still played a defensive center but they had offensive orientated forwards with T Chambers and E Johnson. Dan Majerle later took over that role when Eddie was traded for the X-Man. X was to be the two way SF to put them over the top in 1991 but it didn't work out. They reverted to Tim Perry as starting defensive forward in 1992 as X moved on to NYC.

[Who]

So I believe one of the separating factors for KJ versus other PGs is not just how good his regular season numbers but how good he was in the playoffs and how many long playoff runs he had. So I did a quicker playoff run of the guys mentioned above.

* KJ 1988-97 92gms = 21.1p 9.7a 47% FG TS+ 105

* Magic 1982-91 153gm = 20p 13.2a 50.8% FG TS+ 114
* Zeke 1982-91 106gm = 20.7p 9.0a 44.5% FG TS+ 97
* Oscar 1960-69 39gm = 29.7p 9.4a 46.1% FG TS+ 116

* Deron 2006-11 44gm = 21.1p 9.6a 45.8% FG TS+ 104
* M Price 1988-94 43gm = 17.0p 7.0a 47.6%FG TS+110

* CP3 2007-2016 69gm = 21.0p 9.4a 48.3% FG TS+109
* CP3 2016-2022 73gm = 19.8p 7.3a 49% FG TS+ 105
* CP3 07-22 142gm = 20.4p 8.3a 48.6%FG TS+107

* Westbrook 2013-21 66gm = 25.6p 9.1a 40%FG TS+92
* T Hardaway 1990-98 = 21.7p 7.9a 41.7%FG TS+99

* J Harden 2016-26 96gm = 24.9p 7.9a TS+ 103
* J Wall 2013-19 37gm = 21.9p 9.8a 41.9% FG TS+94

* Marbury 99-07 18gm = 19.4p 6.7a 36.5% FG TS+85
* Iverson 1999-08 72gm = 29.7p 6a 40% FG TS+ 94

* TParker 05-14 129gm = 20.3p 5.7a 47.7%FG TS+104

* Kyrie 2014-2024 96gm = 23p 4.9a 45.8% FG TS+ 101
* Lillard 2015-25 52gms = 26.1ppg 6.1apg TS+ 101
* Steph 2013-26 143gms = 27ppg 6apg TS+ 110

* W Frazier 68-76 89gm = 21.2p 6.4a 51.5%FG TS+111
* G Payton 93-03 68gm = 21.5p 7.1a 45.4% FG TS+ 99
* J Kidd 98-04 64gm = 17.1p 9.1a 39.3% FG TS+ 94

* Nash 2003-12 74gm = 19.3p 10.5a 49.2% FG TS+ 111
* Nash 2000-10 110gm = 18.4p 9.5a 47.5% FG TS+ 111
* Stockton 87-96 88gm = 15.4p 12.3a 46.4%FG TS+105

* Cousy 1952-60 67gms = 19.7p 8.6a TS+ 94
* L Wilkens 1966-74 15gms = 20.2p 7.5a TS+ 104
* L Wilkens 1960-68 64gms = 16.1p 5.8a TS+ 98
* Tiny 1971-76 6gm = 20.2p 5.3a 36.4%FG TS+88

-----------------

Some notes

KJ had two very bad playoff series in 1991 and 1997 where he had a TS+ of 72 and 76. That dragged down his overall score. Around TS+ 107 outside of those 2 series.

M Price's TS+ was up and down like a yo-yo in the playoffs. Many short playoff runs. 2yrs 125-126. One year 114. Then one year 101. One year 94. One year 87. He would often have injuries in the playoffs from teams beating him up. Especially Chicago they knocked him around like a rag-doll. He was a small guard both in size and bulk. Add in his injury proneness. He just wasn't durable enough to handle the physicality of his era.

I added a 2nd CP3 one because he had his long playoff runs in Phoenix and Houston. He only got out of the 1st round 4 times in 9 years during his peak period. Or 10 years if you add his final LAC season. Also shows off his amazing longevity.

Westbrook 2 long playoff runs in the first 2 years of that sample size when Durant played alongside him. Only got out of the 1st round once in the other 6 years when playing alongside J Harden. Never got past the 1st round when he was his team's best player.

Interesting that Harden's assist numbers went down in the playoffs from 9.1apg to 7.9apg. He only cleared 9+apg once in the playoffs. A 1st round series playoff loss last year. His TS+ was still only 104 when just using his 4 Houston years from that 9yr sample (high assist seasons).

Marbury's playoff numbers were a shocker. I knew he wouldn't have many games. Only 4 trips to the playoffs; all 1st round losses. The scoring efficiency shocked me though. I don't remember him like that. Shot 40% FG as a rookie. All under 40% his following 3 playoff appearances. 2 in MIN, 1 in PHX, 1 NY. Assist numbers went way down too.

Interesting to see Kyrie drop from 106 TS+ to 101 TS+ in the playoffs. Also Lillard had the same TS+ at 101. Both barely above league average in scoring efficiency come playoff time. Also makes Steph stand out all the more with his 110 score. Not the same class as the other 2.

W Frazier had J Kidd had similar playoff numbers. Walt more scoring 21ppg to 17ppg and Kidd more assists 9apg to 6apg but the same number of rebounds around 7rpg and 2spg. I say that better - in terms of possession creation, they were similar. W Frazier with a standout 110 TS+ while Kidd was 94. W Frazier horribly under-rated as a scorer. People do not recognize him for how talented an offensive player he was. That is what separates W Frazier from Kidd and Payton (99 TS+). Why he should be ranked ahead of them in all-time PG rankings. He had the elite shot-creation / go-to scoring that those 2 guys lacked.

I was trying to get Nash's most prolific assist seasons when I chose 2003-04 as his start date. 1 season of Dallas and his next 8 years of Phoenix. This worked well for regular season stat comparisons but worked badly for playoffs. It took out his long Dallas postseason runs. So I added Nash's Dallas playoff runs to show that as a comparison too. Also, you can see how Nash upped his scoring in the playoffs and was basically a 20/10 threat in the playoffs. Up from 16/10 in the regular season. Nash does not credit for this. 

Stockton led the league in assists every year from 1987-96. 9 straight years. He also led the playoffs in assists every season except 1995. Rod Strickland beat him that year. Both guys lost in 1st round. KJ was next highest.

On another Stockton vs Magic note, notice that Magic beats Stockton in playoff assists at 13.1apg to 12.3apg. Also that Magic did while playing almost double the games of Stockton. That Magic's playoff records as an assist man (and overall player) deserve more eye-balls.

Lenny Wilkens put up his best numbers in the 2nd half of his career but he played mostly on bad teams during that period. None of them made the playoffs. His playoff runs came in the 1st half of his career. This comparison didn't work well here. He had only two playoff runs in 1967 and 1968.

Also a lack of a sample size with Tiny Archibald. His peak from 1971-76 was spent on a bad to middling Kansas City Kings team. They only made the playoffs once. And they lost the only series they played in. Tiny struggled in that series.

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Number of games played

Notice the smaller sample sizes. Most of these guys were only playing 40-50 games in the playoffs over these periods.

Oscar is hurt here by the smaller league // less playoff games for non-Finals teams. Even the Finals guys played far less compared to today's players. Cousy has 109 career games despite winning 6 titles in 7 years and having multiple long playoffs runs prior to B Russell joining. So you have to give those older guys a pass. The more modern guys though. They didn't play as much because they couldn't lead their teams further in the playoffs.

Magic with 153 games. Steph 143gms. T Parker with 129 games. Nash 110gms (DAL & PHX). Zeke 106 games. The only guys well ahead of KJ. Kevin Johnson is on the next level with 92 playoff games over that 9yr stretch. Stockton, Harden and Kyrie match that. CP3 (9yr peak), Payton & AI around 70gms. Most of the other guys around 40gms. This is something that I don't think KJ gets enough credit for. He has the most playoff runs of the non-title winning PGs.