Offseason Thread

[slamtheking]

Apparently Victor Wembanyama is now listed by the team at 7-4, which means he could easily be 7-5 in shoes. Given he is still only 21, Wembanyama may not be done growing either.

At his height, he will be defying history if he does not have a career blighted by injuries.

Unfortunately, really tall big men are more susceptible to injuries. See: Yao Ming, Embiid, Porzingis etc. Nonetheless, would still be nice to watch him and the Spurs dominate their conference some day.

but yet lose to the Celtics in the finals anytime they face each other.

[slightly biased bias fan]

Apparently Victor Wembanyama is now listed by the team at 7-4, which means he could easily be 7-5 in shoes. Given he is still only 21, Wembanyama may not be done growing either.

At his height, he will be defying history if he does not have a career blighted by injuries.

Unfortunately, really tall big men are more susceptible to injuries. See: Yao Ming, Embiid, Porzingis etc. Nonetheless, would still be nice to watch him and the Spurs dominate their conference some day.

There is really tall centres and then there are guys like Wembanyama.

Players 7-4 and over in the NBA have had short careers blighted by injuries.

Gheorghe Mureșan & Manute Bol were 7-7 and both had short NBA careers in terms of games & minutes played. You have already referenced Yao Ming who was 7-6 and only had 3 healthy seasons in the league. 7-6 Shawn Bradley, who people mock for being a bust was actually athletic until an early injury sapped his athleticism. Ralph Sampson who at 7-4 really resembles Wembanyama obviously had a hall of fame level career taken away when injuries destroyed him after 3 seasons.

Mark Eaton is the only player 7-4 or taller who had a lengthy & healthy NBA career.

[Neurotic Guy]

Apparently Victor Wembanyama is now listed by the team at 7-4, which means he could easily be 7-5 in shoes. Given he is still only 21, Wembanyama may not be done growing either.

At his height, he will be defying history if he does not have a career blighted by injuries.

Unfortunately, really tall big men are more susceptible to injuries. See: Yao Ming, Embiid, Porzingis etc. Nonetheless, would still be nice to watch him and the Spurs dominate their conference some day.

There is really tall centres and then there are guys like Wembanyama.

Players 7-4 and over in the NBA have had short careers blighted by injuries.

Gheorghe Mureșan & Manute Bol were 7-7 and both had short NBA careers in terms of games & minutes played. You have already referenced Yao Ming who was 7-6 and only had 3 healthy seasons in the league. 7-6 Shawn Bradley, who people mock for being a bust was actually athletic until an early injury sapped his athleticism. Ralph Sampson who at 7-4 really resembles Wembanyama obviously had a hall of fame level career taken away when injuries destroyed him after 3 seasons.

Mark Eaton is the only player 7-4 or taller who had a lengthy & healthy NBA career.

Eaton was a bit bulkier than most of the others and that may have helped.  Yao was also big - but a gigantic 7?6?.   Wemby?s ecto frame at his height does not bode well for him, but would anyone have passed on him?   

Kareem almost breaks the mold as he was slim but topped out at *only* 7?2?.

[Donoghus]

Rik Smits was 7' 4"

[Goldstar88]

Apparently Victor Wembanyama is now listed by the team at 7-4, which means he could easily be 7-5 in shoes. Given he is still only 21, Wembanyama may not be done growing either.

At his height, he will be defying history if he does not have a career blighted by injuries.

Unfortunately, really tall big men are more susceptible to injuries. See: Yao Ming, Embiid, Porzingis etc. Nonetheless, would still be nice to watch him and the Spurs dominate their conference some day.

There is really tall centres and then there are guys like Wembanyama.

Players 7-4 and over in the NBA have had short careers blighted by injuries.

Gheorghe Mureșan & Manute Bol were 7-7 and both had short NBA careers in terms of games & minutes played. You have already referenced Yao Ming who was 7-6 and only had 3 healthy seasons in the league. 7-6 Shawn Bradley, who people mock for being a bust was actually athletic until an early injury sapped his athleticism. Ralph Sampson who at 7-4 really resembles Wembanyama obviously had a hall of fame level career taken away when injuries destroyed him after 3 seasons.

Mark Eaton is the only player 7-4 or taller who had a lengthy & healthy NBA career.

Manute Ball played a decade and he didn?t get to the league until he was 24 years old. His first 7 years he played 70+ games every year. I?d say that was relatively healthy.

Shawn Bradley was another one. He was healthy more often than not. He played a decade and his last 6 years he averaged 73 games played per season.

[Donoghus]

Apparently Victor Wembanyama is now listed by the team at 7-4, which means he could easily be 7-5 in shoes. Given he is still only 21, Wembanyama may not be done growing either.

At his height, he will be defying history if he does not have a career blighted by injuries.

Unfortunately, really tall big men are more susceptible to injuries. See: Yao Ming, Embiid, Porzingis etc. Nonetheless, would still be nice to watch him and the Spurs dominate their conference some day.

There is really tall centres and then there are guys like Wembanyama.

Players 7-4 and over in the NBA have had short careers blighted by injuries.

Gheorghe Mureșan & Manute Bol were 7-7 and both had short NBA careers in terms of games & minutes played. You have already referenced Yao Ming who was 7-6 and only had 3 healthy seasons in the league. 7-6 Shawn Bradley, who people mock for being a bust was actually athletic until an early injury sapped his athleticism. Ralph Sampson who at 7-4 really resembles Wembanyama obviously had a hall of fame level career taken away when injuries destroyed him after 3 seasons.

Mark Eaton is the only player 7-4 or taller who had a lengthy & healthy NBA career.

Manute Ball played a decade and he didn?t get to the league until he was 24 years old. His first 7 years he played 70+ games every year. I?d say that was relatively healthy.

He was relatively healthy but he wasn't averaging a ton of minutes and predominantly off the bench.

[Who]

7-6 Shawn Bradley, who people mock for being a bust was actually athletic until an early injury sapped his athleticism.

I don't remember S Bradley with athleticism. When was that? When did he have the injury that took away some of his athleticism?

He was on terrible teams early in his career. I did not see much of that period of his career. I remember him more from his days in Dallas with Finley & Dirk.

[Moranis]

There have only been like 20 people in the NBA 7'3" or taller and most of them are 1 season type players. The ones that do have longer careers are Ming, Sabonis, Big Z, Sampson, Smits,  Eaton, Bradley, Bol, Muresan,  and Boban.

[Who]

I would separate those centers into two groups

Thin centers = Shawn Bradley, Manute Bol, Ralph Sampson

Bulky centers = Yao Ming, Gheorghe Muresan, Mark Eaton

Those bulky centers were all around 300lbs. Eaton 7-4, Yao 7-6, Muresan 7-7. Eaton was the only one who was relatively healthy. Muresan's career was the shortest. He only really had 2-3 good years in the NBA.

The thin centers all got pushed around physically despite their tall size and length. As Shaq says, they are tall not big. They lacked physicality. As pointed out above, Bradley & Bol were both part time players (20-25mpg) rather than full time starters (30-35mpg). So they did not suffer the same physical toll on their bodies that other guys did due to their restricted playing time. Ralph Sampson was the only one who played long minutes and was a top talent.

Porzingis also works in this group at 7-3 and thin.

Edit: Boban Marjanovich is another one for the bulky centers.

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I saw an interesting discussion on RealGM a while back between Ralph Sampson and Wemby. They were talking about how comparable they are and how they are not comparable.

The main point of discussion for why they are not similar is their level of length. There is an old story of Bill Russell when he was Sacramento coach in the late 80s and Ralph Sampson joined the team. Bill asked Ralph to stand next to him and put his arms straight up, Bill then put his arms up, and Bill at 6 foot 9 inches and 3/4ers of an inch had a higher standing reach than Ralph Sampson. So even though Sampson was 7-4 he did not have long arms.

This is in contrast to Wemby, who has a huge wingspan. Is it an 8 foot wingspan? This gives Wemby added advantages on both ends of the floor and is why Wemby has so much more defensive impact & potential than Ralph Sampson had. Why Wemby is so much more disruptive.

[Who]

Rik Smits was 7' 4"

Rik Smits is another guy who never played big minutes. They always had to protect him (1) because he was not physically capable in terms of stamina to play long minutes. He got tired easily. Worn down easily. It was difficult for him to maintain effort for longer minutes. (2) to protect him from injury.

For his career, Smits played 12 years and averaged 26.6mpg. The most he averaged was 30.2mpg and 30.5mpg. The only seasons over 30mpg in his career. He had two more seasons at 29mpg. One season at 28mpg. One season at 27mpg. So 6 seasons at 27-30mpg. Two seasons at 25-26mpg. Four seasons at 22-25mpg. So another 6 seasons at 22-26mpg. Half his career in 27-30mpg and half his career in 22-26mpg.

I think Rik Smits gets misremembered. He gets the plaudits he deserves for his offensive skill level. 14.8ppg in 26.6mpg for his career. High shooting percentage. Very good low post game. Skilled passer (out of high post and low post). Skilled shooter out to 20 feet (strong PnP game, floor spacer for low skilled bigs).

But R Smits struggles on defense & rebounding get forgotten or minimized. People forget how much he struggled for playing time early on in his career due to how bad his defense & rebounding were. Smits' defense / rebounding were so bad primarily because of his lack of quickness & mobility. Plus he lacked physicality against beefy centers on top of his lack of foot speed / agility.

It wasn't until the two Davis boys (Dale & Antonio) came onto the team to do the dirty work at PF that it became possible for Smits to play 27-30mpg which he did 5 straight seasons next to them. He was in the 22-25mpg in 4 of the previous 5 seasons. Part of his success in the NBA came from having guys next to him who could offset his severe limitations (defense / rebounding).

Smits couldn't rebound well. He could explode to the ball. He couldn't jump. He couldn't move laterally. The ball either bounced right to him or he wouldn't get it. So it put a lot of pressure on other players around him to get those loose rebounds.

----------------

Smits and Big Z are strange comparisons for Wemby because they are both so slow and unathletic. They feel like a 3rd group. They don't fit into the first two groups identified as (a) tall thin centers (b) tall bulky centers.

Neither were that bulky. Neither were that thin. Both possessed a much higher skill level offensively than the defense-only options. Both had weaknesses in defense & rebounding the the others did not have.

Big Z was a bit more durable than Smits. Like Smits he also had two seasons just above 30mpg but also had another at 31mpg and another at 33mpg. Two more at 29mpg. Two more at 27mpg. So in his prime, Big Z played 27-33mpg for 7 straight seasons (29.9mpg over that 7yr period). One of the reasons Big Z was able to play more minutes was his superior defense & rebounding relative to Smits.

Big Z like Smits enjoyed the best part of his career when he paired a defender / rebounder low skilled offensive PF/C. Big Z had Anderson Varejao. Smits had Dale Davis. Smits and Big Z comparable. Varejao and Dale Davis comparable. Big Z never had an Antonio Davis (two way interior player). He had Gooden (offensive big) or Ben Wallace (2nd Dale Davis).

In terms of grouping, I'd say they are both (1) deficient in terms of athleticism and quickness (2) above average offensive skills with below average defense / rebounding. Not as nice and simple a group description as (a) tall thin big and (b) tall bulky big.

So tall big men with plus offensive skills & below average defense / rebounding. Guys that needed to be paired with strong rebounders / defenders in order to be successful.

[slightly biased bias fan]

7-6 Shawn Bradley, who people mock for being a bust was actually athletic until an early injury sapped his athleticism.

I don't remember S Bradley with athleticism. When was that? When did he have the injury that took away some of his athleticism?

He was on terrible teams early in his career. I did not see much of that period of his career. I remember him more from his days in Dallas with Finley & Dirk.

Bradley dislocated his kneecap during his rookie season. It affected his mobility for the rest of his career.