76ers (10-17) at Celtics (22-7) Game #30 12/25/24

[keevsnick]

Putrid effort game. Can't just try to play hard for the final five minutes and win games when you don't play D and just chuck threes most of the rest of the game.

This team has some serious problems, and if they don't fix them soon they're going to be looking at a dogfight for seeding in an Eastern Conference that they won by 14 games last year.

This is a very strange game to complain about threes. They were 20/49 which is 40.5%. From two they were 23/46, which is 50%. That means the three were a significantly higher value shot tonight. Shooting threes wasn't the issue, TO's and Caleb Martin becoming Ray Allen every time he plays the C's were the issue tonight. 

Its also worth noting the Cs's were down 2 starters tonight with Jrue out and KP only playing 13 minutes. I wouldn't panic too much about this one.

Sure, if this was an isolated scenario, but the issues we saw tonight have been present for awhile with this team, particularly the over-reliance on threes, lackluster defensive effort, and overall lack of engagement for large parts of games.

I will say that I do think the injury issues we've had throughout the season have certainly contributed to our inconsistent play. We're much less healthy than we were last year, and most of our top 8 rotation guys have already missed a handful of games each with us only having a few games with a completely healthy top 8 rotation.

I think your defensive critique is totally valid, they've been closer to "average" on defense this year then "good," which is surprising considering they were lite last year. I think a lot of it has been effort. They are doing the "we just won a title, let's coast a bit" thing that title teams sometimes do on defense.

I just don't see the three point shooting as an issue, like at all. The team is designed to shoot threes. They were the best offense in league history last year shooting a bunch of threes. They won a title shooting threes. This is a team without an absolutely elite to scorer (Tatum is closest but he isn't at a Jokic, Giannis elite efficiency level). They generate offense by taking and making threes, which they did well in this game. Asking them to take fewer is asking them to do things they just aren't as good at.

But there's a pretty significant difference between the team's three point shooting last year and this year. We're shooting around 20% more threes than last year at a historically high pace that is going to shatter the three point records, and in order to get those numbers up, a lot of it is coming at the expense of the quality of these added threes leading to lower percentages - hence why we're 15th in 3pfg% this year when we were 2nd last year. While looking at defender range the increase in three point shots aren't terrible and are mostly when open or wide open with only a moderate increase of shots on tight coverage, there are definitely significant jumps in three point shots off the dribble as compared to off the pass from last year, which are significantly less efficient shots.

I'm not against a higher volume of three points hots, but we're literally unprecedented in how many we are taking this year by a fair margin. And it's not really a fair comparison to just point at last year and say "it worked last year so why not this year?", because the proportions are substantially different to make it a legitimate one-to-one comparison. The volume to efficiency ratio that we're shooting threes this year is much, much different than what we did last year.

Last year 41% of our points came from three, this year it's about 46%. So yes, more of their points are coming from three. I'm just not sure why leading the league in threes taken one year is good but leading the league in threes by a bit more next year should be bad? Especially when your starting center has missed most of the year thus far.

The C's the last three years are 1st, 1st and 2nd in three pointers per game. They are also 2nd, 1st and 3rd in offensive rating the last three years.

Mostly my point is this is how they play, it works for them, and most importantly they aren't going to change. This is Joe Mazzulla's offense. Its what he WANTS them doing.

It also worth noting: The c's commit the 2nd fewest TO"s per game, which is at least in part a side effect of their three-point volume. More space on drives. So the threes have add on effects that can help.

[Roy H.]

Putrid effort game. Can't just try to play hard for the final five minutes and win games when you don't play D and just chuck threes most of the rest of the game.

This team has some serious problems, and if they don't fix them soon they're going to be looking at a dogfight for seeding in an Eastern Conference that they won by 14 games last year.

This is a very strange game to complain about threes. They were 20/49 which is 40.5%. From two they were 23/46, which is 50%. That means the three were a significantly higher value shot tonight. Shooting threes wasn't the issue, TO's and Caleb Martin becoming Ray Allen every time he plays the C's were the issue tonight. 

Its also worth noting the Cs's were down 2 starters tonight with Jrue out and KP only playing 13 minutes. I wouldn't panic too much about this one.

Sure, if this was an isolated scenario, but the issues we saw tonight have been present for awhile with this team, particularly the over-reliance on threes, lackluster defensive effort, and overall lack of engagement for large parts of games.

I will say that I do think the injury issues we've had throughout the season have certainly contributed to our inconsistent play. We're much less healthy than we were last year, and most of our top 8 rotation guys have already missed a handful of games each with us only having a few games with a completely healthy top 8 rotation.

I think your defensive critique is totally valid, they've been closer to "average" on defense this year then "good," which is surprising considering they were lite last year. I think a lot of it has been effort. They are doing the "we just won a title, let's coast a bit" thing that title teams sometimes do on defense.

I just don't see the three point shooting as an issue, like at all. The team is designed to shoot threes. They were the best offense in league history last year shooting a bunch of threes. They won a title shooting threes. This is a team without an absolutely elite to scorer (Tatum is closest but he isn't at a Jokic, Giannis elite efficiency level). They generate offense by taking and making threes, which they did well in this game. Asking them to take fewer is asking them to do things they just aren't as good at.

But there's a pretty significant difference between the team's three point shooting last year and this year. We're shooting around 20% more threes than last year at a historically high pace that is going to shatter the three point records, and in order to get those numbers up, a lot of it is coming at the expense of the quality of these added threes leading to lower percentages - hence why we're 15th in 3pfg% this year when we were 2nd last year. While looking at defender range the increase in three point shots aren't terrible and are mostly when open or wide open with only a moderate increase of shots on tight coverage, there are definitely significant jumps in three point shots off the dribble as compared to off the pass from last year, which are significantly less efficient shots.

I'm not against a higher volume of three points hots, but we're literally unprecedented in how many we are taking this year by a fair margin. And it's not really a fair comparison to just point at last year and say "it worked last year so why not this year?", because the proportions are substantially different to make it a legitimate one-to-one comparison. The volume to efficiency ratio that we're shooting threes this year is much, much different than what we did last year.

Last year 41% of our points came from three, this year it's about 46%. So yes, more of their points are coming from three. I'm just not sure why leading the league in threes taken one year is good but leading the league in threes by a bit more next year should be bad? Especially when your starting center has missed most of the year thus far.

The C's the last three years are 1st, 1st and 2nd in three pointers per game. They are also 2nd, 1st and 3rd in offensive rating the last three years. This is how they play, i works for them, they aren't going to change.

I think the argument is that they have changed, though.  The offense has become even more unbalanced, with shots in the paint dropping by 4 shots per game and 3PAs increasing by about 8.

[keevsnick]

Putrid effort game. Can't just try to play hard for the final five minutes and win games when you don't play D and just chuck threes most of the rest of the game.

This team has some serious problems, and if they don't fix them soon they're going to be looking at a dogfight for seeding in an Eastern Conference that they won by 14 games last year.

This is a very strange game to complain about threes. They were 20/49 which is 40.5%. From two they were 23/46, which is 50%. That means the three were a significantly higher value shot tonight. Shooting threes wasn't the issue, TO's and Caleb Martin becoming Ray Allen every time he plays the C's were the issue tonight. 

Its also worth noting the Cs's were down 2 starters tonight with Jrue out and KP only playing 13 minutes. I wouldn't panic too much about this one.

Sure, if this was an isolated scenario, but the issues we saw tonight have been present for awhile with this team, particularly the over-reliance on threes, lackluster defensive effort, and overall lack of engagement for large parts of games.

I will say that I do think the injury issues we've had throughout the season have certainly contributed to our inconsistent play. We're much less healthy than we were last year, and most of our top 8 rotation guys have already missed a handful of games each with us only having a few games with a completely healthy top 8 rotation.

I think your defensive critique is totally valid, they've been closer to "average" on defense this year then "good," which is surprising considering they were lite last year. I think a lot of it has been effort. They are doing the "we just won a title, let's coast a bit" thing that title teams sometimes do on defense.

I just don't see the three point shooting as an issue, like at all. The team is designed to shoot threes. They were the best offense in league history last year shooting a bunch of threes. They won a title shooting threes. This is a team without an absolutely elite to scorer (Tatum is closest but he isn't at a Jokic, Giannis elite efficiency level). They generate offense by taking and making threes, which they did well in this game. Asking them to take fewer is asking them to do things they just aren't as good at.

But there's a pretty significant difference between the team's three point shooting last year and this year. We're shooting around 20% more threes than last year at a historically high pace that is going to shatter the three point records, and in order to get those numbers up, a lot of it is coming at the expense of the quality of these added threes leading to lower percentages - hence why we're 15th in 3pfg% this year when we were 2nd last year. While looking at defender range the increase in three point shots aren't terrible and are mostly when open or wide open with only a moderate increase of shots on tight coverage, there are definitely significant jumps in three point shots off the dribble as compared to off the pass from last year, which are significantly less efficient shots.

I'm not against a higher volume of three points hots, but we're literally unprecedented in how many we are taking this year by a fair margin. And it's not really a fair comparison to just point at last year and say "it worked last year so why not this year?", because the proportions are substantially different to make it a legitimate one-to-one comparison. The volume to efficiency ratio that we're shooting threes this year is much, much different than what we did last year.

Last year 41% of our points came from three, this year it's about 46%. So yes, more of their points are coming from three. I'm just not sure why leading the league in threes taken one year is good but leading the league in threes by a bit more next year should be bad? Especially when your starting center has missed most of the year thus far.

The C's the last three years are 1st, 1st and 2nd in three pointers per game. They are also 2nd, 1st and 3rd in offensive rating the last three years. This is how they play, i works for them, they aren't going to change.

I think the argument is that they have changed, though.  The offense has become even more unbalanced, with shots in the paint dropping by 4 shots per game and 3PAs increasing by about 8.

Sure, the offense isn't exactly the same. But it's still the third best offense in the league. And part of the shift is probably just less KP on the floor (counterintuitively, having a non-spacing big leads to MORE threes because the paint is congested on drives).

I think if KP gets healthy and Brown breaks out of his mid range slump the 3:2 ratio will shift a bit. Right now your best post up weapon in KP hasn't been healthy and your best mid-range shooter Brown (38% this year, 53% last two years from 10-16ft) isn't hitting.

[Neurotic Guy]

I do think they?re going to ride this for the remainder of the year. If they win another chip going all in on the three then Joe will be proven right. But if they don?t win it will forever be thought of as one that got away (assuming health) as they look like the most talented/experienced roster in the league. It concerns me that so many Cs are shooting worse from 3 than last year.  There has to be a reason for that.  Maybe taking worse looks overall. Maybe a psychological phenomenon given the three has become a first resort shot more so than last year.  Relying on the three to win games at the expense of shorter shots doesn?t seem like a great idea. But if that?s the game they?re playing they have to beat their opponents in 3% nightly, and they haven?t been doing that lately.  3-D.

[Neurotic Guy]

Putrid effort game. Can't just try to play hard for the final five minutes and win games when you don't play D and just chuck threes most of the rest of the game.

This team has some serious problems, and if they don't fix them soon they're going to be looking at a dogfight for seeding in an Eastern Conference that they won by 14 games last year.

This is a very strange game to complain about threes. They were 20/49 which is 40.5%. From two they were 23/46, which is 50%. That means the three were a significantly higher value shot tonight. Shooting threes wasn't the issue, TO's and Caleb Martin becoming Ray Allen every time he plays the C's were the issue tonight. 

Its also worth noting the Cs's were down 2 starters tonight with Jrue out and KP only playing 13 minutes. I wouldn't panic too much about this one.

Sure, if this was an isolated scenario, but the issues we saw tonight have been present for awhile with this team, particularly the over-reliance on threes, lackluster defensive effort, and overall lack of engagement for large parts of games.

I will say that I do think the injury issues we've had throughout the season have certainly contributed to our inconsistent play. We're much less healthy than we were last year, and most of our top 8 rotation guys have already missed a handful of games each with us only having a few games with a completely healthy top 8 rotation.

I think your defensive critique is totally valid, they've been closer to "average" on defense this year then "good," which is surprising considering they were lite last year. I think a lot of it has been effort. They are doing the "we just won a title, let's coast a bit" thing that title teams sometimes do on defense.

I just don't see the three point shooting as an issue, like at all. The team is designed to shoot threes. They were the best offense in league history last year shooting a bunch of threes. They won a title shooting threes. This is a team without an absolutely elite to scorer (Tatum is closest but he isn't at a Jokic, Giannis elite efficiency level). They generate offense by taking and making threes, which they did well in this game. Asking them to take fewer is asking them to do things they just aren't as good at.

But there's a pretty significant difference between the team's three point shooting last year and this year. We're shooting around 20% more threes than last year at a historically high pace that is going to shatter the three point records, and in order to get those numbers up, a lot of it is coming at the expense of the quality of these added threes leading to lower percentages - hence why we're 15th in 3pfg% this year when we were 2nd last year. While looking at defender range the increase in three point shots aren't terrible and are mostly when open or wide open with only a moderate increase of shots on tight coverage, there are definitely significant jumps in three point shots off the dribble as compared to off the pass from last year, which are significantly less efficient shots.

I'm not against a higher volume of three points hots, but we're literally unprecedented in how many we are taking this year by a fair margin. And it's not really a fair comparison to just point at last year and say "it worked last year so why not this year?", because the proportions are substantially different to make it a legitimate one-to-one comparison. The volume to efficiency ratio that we're shooting threes this year is much, much different than what we did last year.

Last year 41% of our points came from three, this year it's about 46%. So yes, more of their points are coming from three. I'm just not sure why leading the league in threes taken one year is good but leading the league in threes by a bit more next year should be bad? Especially when your starting center has missed most of the year thus far.

The C's the last three years are 1st, 1st and 2nd in three pointers per game. They are also 2nd, 1st and 3rd in offensive rating the last three years. This is how they play, i works for them, they aren't going to change.

I think the argument is that they have changed, though.  The offense has become even more unbalanced, with shots in the paint dropping by 4 shots per game and 3PAs increasing by about 8.

Sure, the offense isn't exactly the same. But it's still the third best offense in the league. And part of the shift is probably just less KP on the floor (counterintuitively, having a non-spacing big leads to MORE threes because the paint is congested on drives).

I think if KP gets healthy and Brown breaks out of his mid range slump the 3:2 ratio will shift a bit. Right now your best post up weapon in KP hasn't been healthy and your best mid-range shooter Brown (38% this year, 53% last two years from 10-16ft) isn't hitting.

Brown?s midrange slump is the most exasperating to me. So good last year and so pedestrian this year.  He needs to get it back.  That said, JT finishing at the hoop is something to behold.  Keep driving JT. 

[angryguy77]

We are Rocky from rocky 3. Fat from winning and not hungry.

[Who]

I would be interested to know the team's turnover averages when they:

(a) start two guards
(b) start only guard

I expect we see a spike whenever one of Jrue / D White is missing.

And then have a second breakdown of the one guard lineups when the team

(1) plays Hauser instead, single big, three wings
(2) goes double big

I wonder if we see an even higher spike with the double big double wing one guard lineup we used today.

[Goldstar88]

Too bad KP went down and Jrue didn?t play. Doubt the C?s lose if they have those two.

[Phantom255x]

Porzingis has played 11 games this season. He left 3 of them to injury. And even last year?s postseason he never played more than 3 games in a row. Got hurt Game 3 vs Miami, then late Game 2 vs Dallas in those series where he started.

I don?t know what options are out there but if we do have to trade someone for luxury tax reasons this offseason, I would do Porzingis. He?s just not reliable health wise. CBS will have to then find another big man since Horford will retire too. I don?t mind Queta, Tillman and Kornet as our role player bigs

[SparzWizard]

Jayson Tatum is now 4-4 all-time on December 25th matchups.

Gotta continue to improve that record, or better yet, hope the NBA just sits them next year. I'm surprised OKC didn't have a game today.

[Neurotic Guy]

Porzingis has played 11 games this season. He left 3 of them to injury. And even last year?s postseason he never played more than 3 games in a row. Got hurt Game 3 vs Miami, then late Game 2 vs Dallas in those series where he started.

I don?t know what options are out there but if we do have to trade someone for luxury tax reasons this offseason, I would do Porzingis. He?s just not reliable health wise. CBS will have to then find another big man since Horford will retire too. I don?t mind Queta, Tillman and Kornet as our role player bigs

What is reliable is that KP will be injured during the playoffs. The question isn?t if, it?s when and for how long?

[Redz]

Porzingis has played 11 games this season. He left 3 of them to injury. And even last year?s postseason he never played more than 3 games in a row. Got hurt Game 3 vs Miami, then late Game 2 vs Dallas in those series where he started.

I don?t know what options are out there but if we do have to trade someone for luxury tax reasons this offseason, I would do Porzingis. He?s just not reliable health wise. CBS will have to then find another big man since Horford will retire too. I don?t mind Queta, Tillman and Kornet as our role player bigs

What is reliable is that KP will be injured during the playoffs. The question isn?t if, it?s when and for how long?

KP is definitely not close to 100%.  Not sure if he'll get there or not.  The biggest difference I see is how much more difficulty he is having freeing himself up for the foul line jumper.  Last year he was unstoppable from there.  This year the foot work just isn't there and he's getting tangled up and contested much more often.

[Vermont Green]

I would be interested to know the team's turnover averages when they:

(a) start two guards
(b) start only guard

I expect we see a spike whenever one of Jrue / D White is missing.

And then have a second breakdown of the one guard lineups when the team

(1) plays Hauser instead, single big, three wings
(2) goes double big

I wonder if we see an even higher spike with the double big double wing one guard lineup we used today.

I can't figure out all of these but I was able to sort for White  in, Holiday and Pritchard out and for Holiday in, White and Pritchard out.  So just one of our primary combo guards on the floor.  I can't say for sure that these are all 1 guard line ups but it is probably pretty close to that.

Just Holiday      26 min    +8     5 TOV      6.9 TOV/36
Just White        89 min   +38   26 TOV    10.5 TOV/36
Just Pritchard  175 min   +49   43 TOV     8.8 TOV/36

The average for the team overall is 9.0 TOV/36 in 1,455 total minutes.  This probably is not enough of a sample size to tell much but it doesn't seem like our TOV go up dramatically when it is just one of our primary guards on the floor.  These units seemed to do fine on a plus/minus basis also.  Overall, the team is +6.7 per 36.  The just Holiday line ups are +11.0 per 36 and the just White line ups are +15.4 per 36.  Just Pritchard lineups are +10.0 per 36.  Again, small sample size and some of Pritchard's minutes are garbage time.

[Who]

Porzingis has played 11 games this season. He left 3 of them to injury. And even last year?s postseason he never played more than 3 games in a row. Got hurt Game 3 vs Miami, then late Game 2 vs Dallas in those series where he started.

I don?t know what options are out there but if we do have to trade someone for luxury tax reasons this offseason, I would do Porzingis. He?s just not reliable health wise. CBS will have to then find another big man since Horford will retire too. I don?t mind Queta, Tillman and Kornet as our role player bigs

What is reliable is that KP will be injured during the playoffs. The question isn?t if, it?s when and for how long?

KP is definitely not close to 100%.  Not sure if he'll get there or not.  The biggest difference I see is how much more difficulty he is having freeing himself up for the foul line jumper.  Last year he was unstoppable from there.  This year the foot work just isn't there and he's getting tangled up and contested much more often.

Starting to get worried about him. It feels like every other game he is tweaking something. He can't get right / get fully healthy.

[Birdman]

Its ashamed he can?t stay healthy but with his body frame it can be inspected?we really need a center & a another scorer off the bench..lonnie Walker would be good