Was it really that painful?

[Kernewek]

After not being ready for the finals 2 years ago and last years atrocity, was it not warranted? They were much better than the teams they played and arguably shouldn?t have lost any games.
I think they?ll be a little more trusted next season.

It was not warranted. They had a new squad with a second year coach. People are pretending like they ran it back with the same squad.

Well too bad for you. There?s different fans, some that are critical of there team and others who are such homers and no matter what there team can never do any wrong and no one should ever critique them.

If you honestly think 'they should not have lost any games' is a reasonable standard to hold against this team - or any team - I can see why you'd be unhappy.

I think the rest of us will be happy with Banner 18 for a couple more days, at least.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

After not being ready for the finals 2 years ago and last years atrocity, was it not warranted? They were much better than the teams they played and arguably shouldn?t have lost any games.
I think they?ll be a little more trusted next season.

It was not warranted. They had a new squad with a second year coach. People are pretending like they ran it back with the same squad.

Several of the primary players were the same?Tatum and Brown especially, but also White and Horford. Different (and better) supporting cast around those four this year, for sure, but the ultimate fortunes of this era of the Cs were always going to depend most on Tatum and Brown?could they ascend to another level? Could they grow enough, overcoming their youthful mistakes? Thankfully they did. But until they did that, I think it was perfectly reasonable (especially after last year's postseason) to be skeptical.

[green_bballers13]

After not being ready for the finals 2 years ago and last years atrocity, was it not warranted? They were much better than the teams they played and arguably shouldn?t have lost any games.
I think they?ll be a little more trusted next season.

It was not warranted. They had a new squad with a second year coach. People are pretending like they ran it back with the same squad.

Several of the primary players were the same?Tatum and Brown especially, but also White and Horford. Different (and better) supporting cast around those four this year, for sure, but the ultimate fortunes of this era of the Cs were always going to depend most on Tatum and Brown?could they ascend to another level? Could they grow enough, overcoming their youthful mistakes? Thankfully they did. But until they did that, I think it was perfectly reasonable (especially after last year's postseason) to be skeptical.

This is where I disagree. They were and still are young. In the court of public opinion, JB and JT had unreasonable expectations due to their early success in the playoffs. Watch Luka  get the benefit of the doubt nationally because he's young after that defensive debacle. The expectation that young leaders win championships is nuts. Expecting Ant to win it this year would be crazy too.

[Neurotic Guy]

My game anxiety has nothing to do with team history or expectations based on mistrust of the current group.  I will get anxious in the playoffs no matter what.  I can?t imagine watching a Finals game and not have anxiety throughout.  Mine lasted till about 3 minutes left last night. So grateful that I could watch the end of the game comfortably assured of the outcome.

I think the Finals are always painful.  Anything can happen from the Cs getting cold to the opponent getting hot to injuries to a bad call. I don?t think it?s possible just to sit back and enjoy the Finals.  At least not for me.

That said, the sky is falling mentality anytime the Cs have a rough stretch doesn?t help my anxiety so I usually choose not to read the game thread during the game - or at least read it sparingly when I know it won?t bring me down. 

[Kernewek]

After not being ready for the finals 2 years ago and last years atrocity, was it not warranted? They were much better than the teams they played and arguably shouldn?t have lost any games.
I think they?ll be a little more trusted next season.

It was not warranted. They had a new squad with a second year coach. People are pretending like they ran it back with the same squad.

Several of the primary players were the same?Tatum and Brown especially, but also White and Horford. Different (and better) supporting cast around those four this year, for sure, but the ultimate fortunes of this era of the Cs were always going to depend most on Tatum and Brown?could they ascend to another level? Could they grow enough, overcoming their youthful mistakes? Thankfully they did. But until they did that, I think it was perfectly reasonable (especially after last year's postseason) to be skeptical.

This is where I disagree. They were and still are young. In the court of public opinion, JB and JT had unreasonable expectations due to their early success in the playoffs. Watch Luka  get the benefit of the doubt nationally because he's young after that defensive debacle. The expectation that young leaders win championships is nuts. Expecting Ant to win it this year would be crazy too.

Stevens said much the same yesterday in the post-game celebration:

I think the criticism [of Jaylen & Jayson] is stupid, so I don?t care. I?m with Jaylen on that. Those two had achieved more than most 25- or 26-year-olds ever had, and the only reason they received any scrutiny is because they were playing in May and June. As a good friend of mine said, I?d rather be in the mix and have my guts ripped out, then suck.

[Vermont Green]

I have to admit, I was more on edge with this team and this season than usual.  I would do my analysis, see that the Celtics were a great team and on a great run, the best team all season, mostly healthy for once, and I just couldn't convince myself to calm down.  I am not one to blurt out a bunch of negative reactions.  I think I was generally more of a voice of reason.  But I had plenty of doubts.

As to the team, they got a reputation or whatever for not having a killer instinct.  Not a team you could trust to close out a game under pressure, and so on.  We die-hards who are regular posters watch or at least are aware of every game.  I don't think the Celtics blew any more regular season leads than any other team.  It just leaves more scare tissue when you are a die-hard fan.

And even the recent playoff performances.  They lost to GSW in the finals, one of the most talented, experienced, and successful teams in a generation.  I think fans locally and nationally were too hard on the Celtics for that.  Losing to MIA last season, that was rough.  That was a major fall short or whatever.  Criticism or skepticism of the team for that series is warranted.  But overall, this team has been really good.  There were reasons to have some doubts, but the level of skepticism or doubt was not warranted, locally and nationally.  Just look how many local and national "experts" picked the Mavs.  How did that work out?

[trickybilly]

I feel like next year I will go back to simply enjoying basketball.

[Phantom255x]

Things were looking very ugly halfway into the 2022 season. Remember when the Knicks had that game-winner which pushed Boston to .500 and at the time they were like the 11 seed with calls for Ime to be fired and Jaylen/Tatum to be separated?

Well since then, it's been a great ride. Came up short in 2022 but they did reach the Finals and sort of got over the ECF hump at the time. Now they got over the official Finals hump.

I loved that they stayed the course, made some good supplementary moves and they got rewarded.

It was definitely a bit ugly from 2019 to 2021, but at the end of the day the success of the team was gonna be on the Jays and they delivered. I think experience and adversity matters and this team has it all.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

After not being ready for the finals 2 years ago and last years atrocity, was it not warranted? They were much better than the teams they played and arguably shouldn?t have lost any games.
I think they?ll be a little more trusted next season.

It was not warranted. They had a new squad with a second year coach. People are pretending like they ran it back with the same squad.

Several of the primary players were the same?Tatum and Brown especially, but also White and Horford. Different (and better) supporting cast around those four this year, for sure, but the ultimate fortunes of this era of the Cs were always going to depend most on Tatum and Brown?could they ascend to another level? Could they grow enough, overcoming their youthful mistakes? Thankfully they did. But until they did that, I think it was perfectly reasonable (especially after last year's postseason) to be skeptical.

This is where I disagree. They were and still are young. In the court of public opinion, JB and JT had unreasonable expectations due to their early success in the playoffs. Watch Luka  get the benefit of the doubt nationally because he's young after that defensive debacle. The expectation that young leaders win championships is nuts. Expecting Ant to win it this year would be crazy too.

But you're changing the argument now, from team composition (number of returning players) to Tatum and Brown's age. Those are separate issues/factors.

If you want to talk age, yes, they are still young, but an "older" young than most players: 1) It used to be that a 25-year-old was likely a third- or fourth-year player, whereas now a 25-year-old is often a sixth- or seventh-year player, thus having much more pro experience and (hopefully) maturity. 2) Tatum and Brown have been in the playoffs every year of their careers, and the Cs usually went far, including the ECF 2 of Tatum's first 3 years, and 3 of Brown's first 4. That's a ton of experience for a young age, and raises expectations sky-high, especially when it became clear that they wanted the reins of the team over Kyrie and Hayward. They were basically inviting a higher level of scrutiny. Reaching the NBA Finals in '22 was a logical "next step" for them, and they even took two games from a modern dynasty team ... but that made the following year's playoff failure more disappointing.

I agree about Ant, but this year was the first time he'd made it that far, so expecting a title (or Finals appearance) from him this season would have been unwarranted. And no one (as far as I know) expected Tatum and Brown to win a title, or even reach the ECF, their first few years, but I think they could've won a title in either of the last two years had they done a few things differently or learned certain things a bit sooner.

I'm not complaining, though. Boston is the best team right now, and very well could remain the best team for the next several years, and should get multiple titles. I will certainly give them the benefit of the doubt from this point forward, because they've proven themselves now.

[hpantazo]

This was by far the least painful playoff run I have ever followed for any of the Boston sports teams. I found myself thinking often through it how fortunate we were that it wasn?t like past years and we were virtually undefeated throughout which is unheard of

[green_bballers13]

After not being ready for the finals 2 years ago and last years atrocity, was it not warranted? They were much better than the teams they played and arguably shouldn?t have lost any games.
I think they?ll be a little more trusted next season.

It was not warranted. They had a new squad with a second year coach. People are pretending like they ran it back with the same squad.

Several of the primary players were the same?Tatum and Brown especially, but also White and Horford. Different (and better) supporting cast around those four this year, for sure, but the ultimate fortunes of this era of the Cs were always going to depend most on Tatum and Brown?could they ascend to another level? Could they grow enough, overcoming their youthful mistakes? Thankfully they did. But until they did that, I think it was perfectly reasonable (especially after last year's postseason) to be skeptical.

This is where I disagree. They were and still are young. In the court of public opinion, JB and JT had unreasonable expectations due to their early success in the playoffs. Watch Luka  get the benefit of the doubt nationally because he's young after that defensive debacle. The expectation that young leaders win championships is nuts. Expecting Ant to win it this year would be crazy too.

But you're changing the argument now, from team composition (number of returning players) to Tatum and Brown's age. Those are separate issues/factors.

If you want to talk age, yes, they are still young, but an "older" young than most players: 1) It used to be that a 25-year-old was likely a third- or fourth-year player, whereas now a 25-year-old is often a sixth- or seventh-year player, thus having much more pro experience and (hopefully) maturity. 2) Tatum and Brown have been in the playoffs every year of their careers, and the Cs usually went far, including the ECF 2 of Tatum's first 3 years, and 3 of Brown's first 4. That's a ton of experience for a young age, and raises expectations sky-high, especially when it became clear that they wanted the reins of the team over Kyrie and Hayward. They were basically inviting a higher level of scrutiny. Reaching the NBA Finals in '22 was a logical "next step" for them, and they even took two games from a modern dynasty team ... but that made the following year's playoff failure more disappointing.

I agree about Ant, but this year was the first time he'd made it that far, so expecting a title (or Finals appearance) from him this season would have been unwarranted. And no one (as far as I know) expected Tatum and Brown to win a title, or even reach the ECF, their first few years, but I think they could've won a title in either of the last two years had they done a few things differently or learned certain things a bit sooner.

I'm not complaining, though. Boston is the best team right now, and very well could remain the best team for the next several years, and should get multiple titles. I will certainly give them the benefit of the doubt from this point forward, because they've proven themselves now.

I agree with mostly everything, except the bolded. Previous success doesn't mean that people should have unreasonable expectations and freak out at the first sign of adversity. I don't understand why Tatum and Brown's early success needs to lead to irrational takes.

Michael Jordan won his first ring at 27. Tatum and Brown are probably going to have longer careers than him (including MJ's hiatus). I don't think the Celtics will win 6 out of the next 8 championships, but they certainly can win a couple more.

My point: Tatum and Brown are right on track for Hall of Fame careers with multiple banners. Temper your expectations if you expect both to have better careers than MJ.

[mobilija]

This was by far the least painful playoff run I have ever followed for any of the Boston sports teams. I found myself thinking often through it how fortunate we were that it wasn?t like past years and we were virtually undefeated throughout which is unheard of

This 100%. It was almost ho-hum, a walk in the park. By the halfway mark of the season it was clear this team was different, they were ready. Sure there were some bumps, they?re all just humans after all, but it was the least stressful season and playoffs in recent memory.

[green_bballers13]

This was by far the least painful playoff run I have ever followed for any of the Boston sports teams. I found myself thinking often through it how fortunate we were that it wasn?t like past years and we were virtually undefeated throughout which is unheard of

This 100%. It was almost ho-hum, a walk in the park. By the halfway mark of the season it was clear this team was different, they were ready. Sure there were some bumps, they?re all just humans after all, but it was the least stressful season and playoffs in recent memory.

TP. I agree. I never understood why people were freaking out with the team up 25 points. They can't blow every 25 point lead!!!

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

After not being ready for the finals 2 years ago and last years atrocity, was it not warranted? They were much better than the teams they played and arguably shouldn?t have lost any games.
I think they?ll be a little more trusted next season.

It was not warranted. They had a new squad with a second year coach. People are pretending like they ran it back with the same squad.

Several of the primary players were the same?Tatum and Brown especially, but also White and Horford. Different (and better) supporting cast around those four this year, for sure, but the ultimate fortunes of this era of the Cs were always going to depend most on Tatum and Brown?could they ascend to another level? Could they grow enough, overcoming their youthful mistakes? Thankfully they did. But until they did that, I think it was perfectly reasonable (especially after last year's postseason) to be skeptical.

This is where I disagree. They were and still are young. In the court of public opinion, JB and JT had unreasonable expectations due to their early success in the playoffs. Watch Luka  get the benefit of the doubt nationally because he's young after that defensive debacle. The expectation that young leaders win championships is nuts. Expecting Ant to win it this year would be crazy too.

But you're changing the argument now, from team composition (number of returning players) to Tatum and Brown's age. Those are separate issues/factors.

If you want to talk age, yes, they are still young, but an "older" young than most players: 1) It used to be that a 25-year-old was likely a third- or fourth-year player, whereas now a 25-year-old is often a sixth- or seventh-year player, thus having much more pro experience and (hopefully) maturity. 2) Tatum and Brown have been in the playoffs every year of their careers, and the Cs usually went far, including the ECF 2 of Tatum's first 3 years, and 3 of Brown's first 4. That's a ton of experience for a young age, and raises expectations sky-high, especially when it became clear that they wanted the reins of the team over Kyrie and Hayward. They were basically inviting a higher level of scrutiny. Reaching the NBA Finals in '22 was a logical "next step" for them, and they even took two games from a modern dynasty team ... but that made the following year's playoff failure more disappointing.

I agree about Ant, but this year was the first time he'd made it that far, so expecting a title (or Finals appearance) from him this season would have been unwarranted. And no one (as far as I know) expected Tatum and Brown to win a title, or even reach the ECF, their first few years, but I think they could've won a title in either of the last two years had they done a few things differently or learned certain things a bit sooner.

I'm not complaining, though. Boston is the best team right now, and very well could remain the best team for the next several years, and should get multiple titles. I will certainly give them the benefit of the doubt from this point forward, because they've proven themselves now.

I agree with mostly everything, except the bolded. Previous success doesn't mean that people should have unreasonable expectations and freak out at the first sign of adversity. I don't understand why Tatum and Brown's early success needs to lead to irrational takes.

Michael Jordan won his first ring at 27. Tatum and Brown are probably going to have longer careers than him (including MJ's hiatus). I don't think the Celtics will win 6 out of the next 8 championships, but they certainly can win a couple more.

My point: Tatum and Brown are right on track for Hall of Fame careers with multiple banners. Temper your expectations if you expect both to have better careers than MJ.

I don't expect them to have better careers (more titles) than MJ. That was never my point. My point is that if you make the conference finals several times early in your career, AND you start complaining about the older vets and pushing for a larger role (and thus more responsibility), then IMO that's inviting more scrutiny.

And I don't think that complaints after last year's ECF loss, or even after the '22 Finals loss, were cases of freaking out at the first sign of adversity, because those weren't the first signs of adversity. There had been issues before that. But last year's playoff failure was particularly well-deserving of criticism, IMO, because they lost to an 8-seed after taking the mighty Warriors to six games the previous season. Some people simply point to Miami's ridiculous shooting as the reason for that series loss, but it takes two to tango. But I don't want to get into that whole debate again, lol.

[green_bballers13]

Right, some took the Miami loss harder than others. They were probably less likely to accept new evidence (this regular and post season dominance) as being real until a championship was achieved. They got the desired outcome, but at the expense of rational thinking.