Our offense needs to move faster.

[Kernewek]

yeah so many of us have wanted better player movement and more tempo in our 1/2 court sets.   the start of the year we were doing a little better with player movement and keeping the ball moving (at least from the eye test)  but it seems to have gotten worse in the last few weeks.   at times we don't seem to have enough variety in our offensive sets, and that makes us easier to defend as well.  we rarely run any plays that involve more than 2 or 3 players, obviously that is by design.

Which is wild, when you think about it.  We have the perfect personnel to run a pass-heavy, movement based offense. 

If you were creating the perfect offensive basketball team, I think having two unselfish combo guards who can both handle, penetrate and pass would be the first step.  Then add in a superstar level forward who can score and create.  Then give us a 7'3" skilled scorer that very few teams can stop down low.  The cherry on top?  Jaylen Brown, an All-NBA wing.

That offense screams versatility, with the ability to beat any defense it sees.  It should have no weaknesses.

Instead, we run a fairly uncomplicated "bombs away" offense that low level college teams run when they don't have enough traditional talent to compete.

The problem, though, is that our fairly uncomplicated 'bombs away' offense is managing to win many more games than it loses - versatility has to be weighed against the fact that it is beating any defense it sees.

-- It's not a 1:1 comparison, but it's worth keeping in mind that if you go back 20 years you'd see the same sort of conversations & analysis of the pick-and-roll, where college (and even high school) teams used to run many more 'basic' PNR plays (and their variations) than their professional counterparts. Now it's the absolute staple concept of the vast majority of offensive possessions around the league. --

The big problem is that the best players on the team aren't great passers - I think the only one who makes the right pass 99/100 times on the team is probably Derrick White. Holiday's always been a great playmaker as a primary and secondary ballhandler, of course, but I think it's somewhat telling that he's likely going to finish the game with fewer APG than Smart (the guy they traded to 'stop the team being held back' on offense) did last season.

Is it my favourite game to watch? Not really. But it's hard to argue with the results at 33-10.

[blink]

Even though I see ways for us to play with more motion, and I have seen how dominant we have been for stretches when we play like that, I have to agree with Kernewek and Celtics2021 about the results part of the equation.   We have the best record in the NBA, we are top 5 in both off / def.  So whatever we are doing it is working well a lot so far this year.

Its just when we have more motion we seem to put much more pressure on the defense and it opens up easier shots.  If we did that more, we would be less reliant on the ups and downs of 3 point shooting to be dominant offensively.  It would be nice to see less dribble for 15-20 seconds and then jack up a 3, which in the last few weeks we have seen a little more of.

[Roy H.]

Even though I see ways for us to play with more motion, and I have seen how dominant we have been for stretches when we play like that, I have to agree with Kernewek and Celtics2021 about the results part of the equation.   We have the best record in the NBA, we are top 5 in both off / def.  So whatever we are doing it is working well a lot so far this year.

Last year the regular season went fairly smoothly, too.  Second in offense, third in defense. 

Then the playoffs happened (and not just the Miami series).  We went 11-9 overall.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Even though I see ways for us to play with more motion, and I have seen how dominant we have been for stretches when we play like that, I have to agree with Kernewek and Celtics2021 about the results part of the equation.   We have the best record in the NBA, we are top 5 in both off / def.  So whatever we are doing it is working well a lot so far this year.

Last year the regular season went fairly smoothly, too.  Second in offense, third in defense. 

Then the playoffs happened (and not just the Miami series).  We went 11-9 overall.

It's certainly true that great regular-season success doesn't always translate to postseason success.

[Kernewek]

Even though I see ways for us to play with more motion, and I have seen how dominant we have been for stretches when we play like that, I have to agree with Kernewek and Celtics2021 about the results part of the equation.   We have the best record in the NBA, we are top 5 in both off / def.  So whatever we are doing it is working well a lot so far this year.

Last year the regular season went fairly smoothly, too.  Second in offense, third in defense. 

Then the playoffs happened (and not just the Miami series).  We went 11-9 overall.

That's one way to tell the story.

As I remember it, many at the time were dismissing the first half of the regular season as 'unsustainably hot', and when the team started to slide - precipitated by a coaching staff departure in March and a slow unravelling prior to the playoffs - it was clear that things weren't working well before the regular season ended.

Is that a fairly smooth entry into the playoffs? But, either way, do we think the Celtics of this season are the same Celtics of last season?

[smicker16]

Even though I see ways for us to play with more motion, and I have seen how dominant we have been for stretches when we play like that, I have to agree with Kernewek and Celtics2021 about the results part of the equation.   We have the best record in the NBA, we are top 5 in both off / def.  So whatever we are doing it is working well a lot so far this year.

Last year the regular season went fairly smoothly, too.  Second in offense, third in defense. 

Then the playoffs happened (and not just the Miami series).  We went 11-9 overall.

We still had a top three rated offense in the playoffs though. Much better than our 9th rated offense the year before. It’s why when people talk about Ime I have a tough time ever thinking that he is a better offensive coach. Defense absolutely and overall I would go slightly but don’t think he is a Pop or Spoelstra. And really don’t think the drop off from Ime to Joe is massive.

[Roy H.]

Even though I see ways for us to play with more motion, and I have seen how dominant we have been for stretches when we play like that, I have to agree with Kernewek and Celtics2021 about the results part of the equation.   We have the best record in the NBA, we are top 5 in both off / def.  So whatever we are doing it is working well a lot so far this year.

Last year the regular season went fairly smoothly, too.  Second in offense, third in defense. 

Then the playoffs happened (and not just the Miami series).  We went 11-9 overall.

We still had a top three rated offense in the playoffs though. Much better than our 9th rated offense the year before. It’s why when people talk about Ime I have a tough time ever thinking that he is a better offensive coach. Defense absolutely and overall I would go slightly but don’t think he is a Pop or Spoelstra. And really don’t think the drop off from Ime to Joe is massive.

The problem are:

1.  Our defense ranked 10th out of 16 playoff teams; and

2.  Stats are averages, and don't really account for variance.  if we score 150 points, two games and 90 points two others, the stats say we score 120 points per night.  We scored 105 points or less in six of our last 10 playoff games, which is quite bad.

[tenn_smoothie]

Been saying this for 3 seasons. We play so slow.

Just boggles my mind how a few fundamental changes in playing style would make a good team significantly better.
Obvious, glaring tendencies that cost us games (and more importantly, titles).
The guy I point to most responsible for this issue is Brad. He's always been a small-ball college guy who loves 3-point shooting and ignores our habit of bad shot selection. He coached that way and has now endorsed a head coach who is worse about bad offensive habits than he was.

[GetLucky]

The Mavericks play the way CBers think the Celtics play.

[Kernewek]

Been saying this for 3 seasons. We play so slow.

Just boggles my mind how a few fundamental changes in playing style would make a good team significantly better.
Obvious, glaring tendencies that cost us games (and more importantly, titles).
The guy I point to most responsible for this issue is Brad. He's always been a small-ball college guy who loves 3-point shooting and ignores our habit of bad shot selection. He coached that way and has now endorsed a head coach who is worse about bad offensive habits than he was.

Do you think Mazzulla(and Stevens, by extension) would endorse the same offensive strategies for the Celtics if their best players were Karl Anthony Towns, Rudy Gobert, and Anthony Edwards?

[liam]

Joe playing small last night with Tatum at center was a very nice adjustment.

[Moranis]

Even though I see ways for us to play with more motion, and I have seen how dominant we have been for stretches when we play like that, I have to agree with Kernewek and Celtics2021 about the results part of the equation.   We have the best record in the NBA, we are top 5 in both off / def.  So whatever we are doing it is working well a lot so far this year.

Last year the regular season went fairly smoothly, too.  Second in offense, third in defense. 

Then the playoffs happened (and not just the Miami series).  We went 11-9 overall.

We still had a top three rated offense in the playoffs though. Much better than our 9th rated offense the year before. It’s why when people talk about Ime I have a tough time ever thinking that he is a better offensive coach. Defense absolutely and overall I would go slightly but don’t think he is a Pop or Spoelstra. And really don’t think the drop off from Ime to Joe is massive.

The problem are:

1.  Our defense ranked 10th out of 16 playoff teams; and

2.  Stats are averages, and don't really account for variance.  if we score 150 points, two games and 90 points two others, the stats say we score 120 points per night.  We scored 105 points or less in six of our last 10 playoff games, which is quite bad.

they also won 2 of those 6 games and were 3-1 in the other 4 games.

[Moranis]

yeah so many of us have wanted better player movement and more tempo in our 1/2 court sets.   the start of the year we were doing a little better with player movement and keeping the ball moving (at least from the eye test)  but it seems to have gotten worse in the last few weeks.   at times we don't seem to have enough variety in our offensive sets, and that makes us easier to defend as well.  we rarely run any plays that involve more than 2 or 3 players, obviously that is by design.

Which is wild, when you think about it.  We have the perfect personnel to run a pass-heavy, movement based offense. 

If you were creating the perfect offensive basketball team, I think having two unselfish combo guards who can both handle, penetrate and pass would be the first step.  Then add in a superstar level forward who can score and create.  Then give us a 7'3" skilled scorer that very few teams can stop down low.  The cherry on top?  Jaylen Brown, an All-NBA wing.

That offense screams versatility, with the ability to beat any defense it sees.  It should have no weaknesses.

Instead, we run a fairly uncomplicated "bombs away" offense that low level college teams run when they don't have enough traditional talent to compete.

The problem, though, is that our fairly uncomplicated 'bombs away' offense is managing to win many more games than it loses - versatility has to be weighed against the fact that it is beating any defense it sees.

-- It's not a 1:1 comparison, but it's worth keeping in mind that if you go back 20 years you'd see the same sort of conversations & analysis of the pick-and-roll, where college (and even high school) teams used to run many more 'basic' PNR plays (and their variations) than their professional counterparts. Now it's the absolute staple concept of the vast majority of offensive possessions around the league. --

The big problem is that the best players on the team aren't great passers - I think the only one who makes the right pass 99/100 times on the team is probably Derrick White. Holiday's always been a great playmaker as a primary and secondary ballhandler, of course, but I think it's somewhat telling that he's likely going to finish the game with fewer APG than Smart (the guy they traded to 'stop the team being held back' on offense) did last season.

Is it my favourite game to watch? Not really. But it's hard to argue with the results at 33-10.

this is it exactly. Tatum is a below average passer and Brown is quite simply a bad passer. 

[Roy H.]

Looking at the "four factors" of offense:

eFG%:  5th (tied)
TO%: 5th (tied)
ORB%:  16th (tied)
FT/FGA:  15th

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2024.html

(Defensively, we ranked 2nd, 27th, 7th and 1st)

[liam]

I feel like when we make quick decisions with the ball we are impossible to stop.