The Problem with last year's team

[Roy H.]

I think last year was a combination of personnel mixed with a poor offensive philosophy that ignored easy buckets.  It sounds crazy, but almost any three was seen as a better option than any two.

With the addition of Brogdon to a Finals roster, along with a much better D. White, we should have done better than we did.

That said, the personnel seems better suited to avoiding offensive droughts.  We just need the bench to show up and perform above expectations.

Except the team was worse on the interior.  Significantly worse.  Al got older and significantly worse (I mean he was playing over 35 mpg in the playoffs shooting 48% from 3). Rob couldn't stay healthy and while he was mostly healthy in the playoffs last year, he just wasn't the same level of player.  We didn't replace Theis at all.  The lack of size also pushed Grant into more of a big role and while he shot well his overall play was much worse.

The problem with last year's team was its size, which frankly is a real concern with this year's team.  There just isn't enough size on the roster.

Timelord was hurt for most of the Finals run, and Theis barely played.  I don't think last year's team was that terrible in comparison.

[Who]

There was something mentally wrong with last year's team too. And the year before despite us making the finals.

They certainly had talent to win. But how many times did they play down to teams or just come out flat and extend series they shouldn't have. We shouldn't have needed 6 games to beat Atlanta, need Tatum heroics to get to game 7 in Philly or go down 0-3 against miami

Even the finals year. That Miami series was trading blowouts until game 7. Milwaukee series the same.

So Brad blew everything up. Traded depth for more high end talent. At least 2 of holiday/KP/brown/Tatum should be going off on a given night.

Also loaded up on coaching staff. Van Gundy/Lee/Cassell behind Mazzulla is crazy.

And being "new" guys. I think all are more apt to play their role. Easier to come into another team and sacrifice than be a longer tenured guy and sacrifice.

Agreed. The problem with last year's team was leadership. Not talent. Not skilled bigs. Leadership.

The same guys who failed to lead the team last year (Tatum, Jaylen) are back. In has come Porzingis who has never been a leader. And Jrue Holiday who gives us some leadership (secondary leadership rather than primary = that is Tatum) but Jrue has also been an abysmal underperformer in the playoffs for the last 3 seasons.

How telling this is will depend on whether we believe leaders are made and developed, not born. If they are born and not made then we've got a problem 

I do think they are made though and I think each experience makes a person better in terms of developing as a leader. But we'll have all this season to find out.

Agreed. Learning through failure.

Like Zeke and the Bad Boy Pistons learning from losing to the Celtics in the mid-80s. Or Jordan's Bulls from being beaten by Zeke's Pistons.

Those teams developed leadership both individually and collectively over time and through failure.

[Moranis]

I think last year was a combination of personnel mixed with a poor offensive philosophy that ignored easy buckets.  It sounds crazy, but almost any three was seen as a better option than any two.

With the addition of Brogdon to a Finals roster, along with a much better D. White, we should have done better than we did.

That said, the personnel seems better suited to avoiding offensive droughts.  We just need the bench to show up and perform above expectations.

Except the team was worse on the interior.  Significantly worse.  Al got older and significantly worse (I mean he was playing over 35 mpg in the playoffs shooting 48% from 3). Rob couldn't stay healthy and while he was mostly healthy in the playoffs last year, he just wasn't the same level of player.  We didn't replace Theis at all.  The lack of size also pushed Grant into more of a big role and while he shot well his overall play was much worse.

The problem with last year's team was its size, which frankly is a real concern with this year's team.  There just isn't enough size on the roster.

Timelord was hurt for most of the Finals run, and Theis barely played.  I don't think last year's team was that terrible in comparison.

Rob played 17 of the 24 playoff games 2 years ago at 23 mpg.  He missed 6 of the games in the 1st 2 rounds.  Theis played 16 of the 24 games at 12.5 mpg.  7 of the games he didn't play were Miami and GS (including the last 4 when Boston was 1-3).  Horford played an extra 5 mpg and was significantly better even playing the extra time.  Grant dropped 10 mpg and went from every game to not eveylry game.  The reduced minutes from Rob, Grant, and AL and basically of all of Theis' minutes went to smaller players.  The team quite simply got a lot smaller. That effected the defense, rebounding, and more importantly impacted the offensive efficiency of both Tatum and Brown.  Tatum and Brown weren't nearly as good and I would argue that correlated to them having to play more in the bigger positions in the floor.  Tatum is his best at SF and that didn't happen enough in the playoffs last year.

The C's need more size.

[Roy H.]

I think last year was a combination of personnel mixed with a poor offensive philosophy that ignored easy buckets.  It sounds crazy, but almost any three was seen as a better option than any two.

With the addition of Brogdon to a Finals roster, along with a much better D. White, we should have done better than we did.

That said, the personnel seems better suited to avoiding offensive droughts.  We just need the bench to show up and perform above expectations.

Except the team was worse on the interior.  Significantly worse.  Al got older and significantly worse (I mean he was playing over 35 mpg in the playoffs shooting 48% from 3). Rob couldn't stay healthy and while he was mostly healthy in the playoffs last year, he just wasn't the same level of player.  We didn't replace Theis at all.  The lack of size also pushed Grant into more of a big role and while he shot well his overall play was much worse.

The problem with last year's team was its size, which frankly is a real concern with this year's team.  There just isn't enough size on the roster.

Timelord was hurt for most of the Finals run, and Theis barely played.  I don't think last year's team was that terrible in comparison.

Rob played 17 of the 24 playoff games 2 years ago at 23 mpg.  He missed 6 of the games in the 1st 2 rounds.  Theis played 16 of the 24 games at 12.5 mpg.  7 of the games he didn't play were Miami and GS (including the last 4 when Boston was 1-3).  Horford played an extra 5 mpg and was significantly better even playing the extra time.  Grant dropped 10 mpg and went from every game to not eveylry game.  The reduced minutes from Rob, Grant, and AL and basically of all of Theis' minutes went to smaller players.  The team quite simply got a lot smaller. That effected the defense, rebounding, and more importantly impacted the offensive efficiency of both Tatum and Brown.  Tatum and Brown weren't nearly as good and I would argue that correlated to them having to play more in the bigger positions in the floor.  Tatum is his best at SF and that didn't happen enough in the playoffs last year.

The C's need more size.

I don't disagree about needing more size, but it's not why we lost last year. 

[Vermont Green]

So a couple of reactions to points made.

Yes, there was something mentally off with the team last season.  Too many sleep walk games where they lost to far inferior opponents.  But I am chalking this up to the abrupt coaching change a couple of weeks before the season started.  I think this had an impact but it wasn't apparent until the end of the season.  I think the focus and compete every night attitude will be better this season.  I think they learned their lesson on that front.

As to leadership of Tatum and Brown, this is going to fall mostly on Tatum.  Leaders aren't necessarily born or developed, it is some of both, but that type of leadership takes time to be learned.  Not every player has it in them to be a leader, but even the best leader takes several seasons to figure it all out.  The time for Tatum is now and this is related to the point above.  Tatum needs to set a "all business" tone, every game, every quarter even in his quiet low key leadership style.  Coaching is part of this too.

As to the comparison of the 2021-22 Horford-Williams vs. 2022-23 version, I don't think it changed all that much from an offensive standpoint.  Horford was the scoring big, Williams was the defense and rebounding big.  Both declined some, Horford due to age, Williams due to injury but Horford shot 44.6% from 3 for the season in 2022-23, and was a steady 10 pt/gm scorer.  Williams was not 100% in the playoffs in 2022 either.  But Williams injuries led to us playing the small line up.  It was the defense and rebounding that was lost when you had White on the floor over Williams.  White is a good defender but a different kind of defender than Williams.  You just can't play the same team defense when you take out Williams and put in White.

For this coming season, Porzingis can be the scoring big, there will be way less pressure or need for Horford to score.  Last season we were kind of forced to play small, the most used line up was White-Smart-Brown-Tatum-Horford, which of course is indirectly related to lack of depth in the big rotation, which was the result of Williams being injured or not 100%.  Horford can be the D/Reb big this season for the most part but also pitch in with decent scoring along the way.

[Moranis]

I think last year was a combination of personnel mixed with a poor offensive philosophy that ignored easy buckets.  It sounds crazy, but almost any three was seen as a better option than any two.

With the addition of Brogdon to a Finals roster, along with a much better D. White, we should have done better than we did.

That said, the personnel seems better suited to avoiding offensive droughts.  We just need the bench to show up and perform above expectations.

Except the team was worse on the interior.  Significantly worse.  Al got older and significantly worse (I mean he was playing over 35 mpg in the playoffs shooting 48% from 3). Rob couldn't stay healthy and while he was mostly healthy in the playoffs last year, he just wasn't the same level of player.  We didn't replace Theis at all.  The lack of size also pushed Grant into more of a big role and while he shot well his overall play was much worse.

The problem with last year's team was its size, which frankly is a real concern with this year's team.  There just isn't enough size on the roster.

Timelord was hurt for most of the Finals run, and Theis barely played.  I don't think last year's team was that terrible in comparison.

Rob played 17 of the 24 playoff games 2 years ago at 23 mpg.  He missed 6 of the games in the 1st 2 rounds.  Theis played 16 of the 24 games at 12.5 mpg.  7 of the games he didn't play were Miami and GS (including the last 4 when Boston was 1-3).  Horford played an extra 5 mpg and was significantly better even playing the extra time.  Grant dropped 10 mpg and went from every game to not eveylry game.  The reduced minutes from Rob, Grant, and AL and basically of all of Theis' minutes went to smaller players.  The team quite simply got a lot smaller. That effected the defense, rebounding, and more importantly impacted the offensive efficiency of both Tatum and Brown.  Tatum and Brown weren't nearly as good and I would argue that correlated to them having to play more in the bigger positions in the floor.  Tatum is his best at SF and that didn't happen enough in the playoffs last year.

The C's need more size.

I don't disagree about needing more size, but it's not why we lost last year.

Just take the Miami series

22 (we win)
Al 37.3 mpg (6 games)
Rob 22.5 mpg (6 games)
Grant 30.4 mpg
Theis 11.4 mpg (4 games - 46 minutes)
Kornet 7 minutes total

23 (we lose)
Al 28.6 mpg
Rob 18.9 mpg
Grant 24.8 mpg (6 games)
Kornet 19 minutes total

Those are the big minutes. 

Boston actually scored .3 more ppg in 23, but Miami went from 99.7 to 109.1.  In 22 we outrebounded the Heat by 30, that shrunk to 5 in 23.  We had 9 less blocks in 23.  Grant, Rob, and Al went from 53 FT's to 23 FT's. 

Boston lost to Miami because it went smaller.  It needed to play bigger against the smaller team.

[Roy H.]

I think last year was a combination of personnel mixed with a poor offensive philosophy that ignored easy buckets.  It sounds crazy, but almost any three was seen as a better option than any two.

With the addition of Brogdon to a Finals roster, along with a much better D. White, we should have done better than we did.

That said, the personnel seems better suited to avoiding offensive droughts.  We just need the bench to show up and perform above expectations.

Except the team was worse on the interior.  Significantly worse.  Al got older and significantly worse (I mean he was playing over 35 mpg in the playoffs shooting 48% from 3). Rob couldn't stay healthy and while he was mostly healthy in the playoffs last year, he just wasn't the same level of player.  We didn't replace Theis at all.  The lack of size also pushed Grant into more of a big role and while he shot well his overall play was much worse.

The problem with last year's team was its size, which frankly is a real concern with this year's team.  There just isn't enough size on the roster.

Timelord was hurt for most of the Finals run, and Theis barely played.  I don't think last year's team was that terrible in comparison.

Rob played 17 of the 24 playoff games 2 years ago at 23 mpg.  He missed 6 of the games in the 1st 2 rounds.  Theis played 16 of the 24 games at 12.5 mpg.  7 of the games he didn't play were Miami and GS (including the last 4 when Boston was 1-3).  Horford played an extra 5 mpg and was significantly better even playing the extra time.  Grant dropped 10 mpg and went from every game to not eveylry game.  The reduced minutes from Rob, Grant, and AL and basically of all of Theis' minutes went to smaller players.  The team quite simply got a lot smaller. That effected the defense, rebounding, and more importantly impacted the offensive efficiency of both Tatum and Brown.  Tatum and Brown weren't nearly as good and I would argue that correlated to them having to play more in the bigger positions in the floor.  Tatum is his best at SF and that didn't happen enough in the playoffs last year.

The C's need more size.

I don't disagree about needing more size, but it's not why we lost last year.

Just take the Miami series

22 (we win)
Al 37.3 mpg (6 games)
Rob 22.5 mpg (6 games)
Grant 30.4 mpg
Theis 11.4 mpg (4 games - 46 minutes)
Kornet 7 minutes total

23 (we lose)
Al 28.6 mpg
Rob 18.9 mpg
Grant 24.8 mpg (6 games)
Kornet 19 minutes total

Those are the big minutes. 

Boston actually scored .3 more ppg in 23, but Miami went from 99.7 to 109.1.  In 22 we outrebounded the Heat by 30, that shrunk to 5 in 23.  We had 9 less blocks in 23.  Grant, Rob, and Al went from 53 FT's to 23 FT's. 

Boston lost to Miami because it went smaller.  It needed to play bigger against the smaller team.

Miami beat Boston because Miami's role players shot extremely well and Boston's stars played poorly.

[bdm860]

I think last year was a combination of personnel mixed with a poor offensive philosophy that ignored easy buckets.  It sounds crazy, but almost any three was seen as a better option than any two.

With the addition of Brogdon to a Finals roster, along with a much better D. White, we should have done better than we did.

That said, the personnel seems better suited to avoiding offensive droughts.  We just need the bench to show up and perform above expectations.

Except the team was worse on the interior.  Significantly worse.  Al got older and significantly worse (I mean he was playing over 35 mpg in the playoffs shooting 48% from 3). Rob couldn't stay healthy and while he was mostly healthy in the playoffs last year, he just wasn't the same level of player.  We didn't replace Theis at all.  The lack of size also pushed Grant into more of a big role and while he shot well his overall play was much worse.

The problem with last year's team was its size, which frankly is a real concern with this year's team.  There just isn't enough size on the roster.

Timelord was hurt for most of the Finals run, and Theis barely played.  I don't think last year's team was that terrible in comparison.

Rob played 17 of the 24 playoff games 2 years ago at 23 mpg.  He missed 6 of the games in the 1st 2 rounds.  Theis played 16 of the 24 games at 12.5 mpg.  7 of the games he didn't play were Miami and GS (including the last 4 when Boston was 1-3).  Horford played an extra 5 mpg and was significantly better even playing the extra time.  Grant dropped 10 mpg and went from every game to not eveylry game.  The reduced minutes from Rob, Grant, and AL and basically of all of Theis' minutes went to smaller players.  The team quite simply got a lot smaller. That effected the defense, rebounding, and more importantly impacted the offensive efficiency of both Tatum and Brown.  Tatum and Brown weren't nearly as good and I would argue that correlated to them having to play more in the bigger positions in the floor.  Tatum is his best at SF and that didn't happen enough in the playoffs last year.

The C's need more size.

I don't disagree about needing more size, but it's not why we lost last year.

Just take the Miami series

22 (we win)
Al 37.3 mpg (6 games)
Rob 22.5 mpg (6 games)
Grant 30.4 mpg
Theis 11.4 mpg (4 games - 46 minutes)
Kornet 7 minutes total

23 (we lose)
Al 28.6 mpg
Rob 18.9 mpg
Grant 24.8 mpg (6 games)
Kornet 19 minutes total

Those are the big minutes. 

Boston actually scored .3 more ppg in 23, but Miami went from 99.7 to 109.1.  In 22 we outrebounded the Heat by 30, that shrunk to 5 in 23.  We had 9 less blocks in 23.  Grant, Rob, and Al went from 53 FT's to 23 FT's. 

Boston lost to Miami because it went smaller.  It needed to play bigger against the smaller team.

Miami beat Boston because Miami's role players shot extremely well and Boston's stars played poorly.

Ya I think rebounds can be explained away because because Boston missed 19 more shots than the previous year, while Miami missed 45 fewer shots.  That will lead to more Miami rebounds and fewer Boston rebounds, allowing Miami to close the gap. Boston's DRB% stayed practically the same year-to-year (76.9% to 76.5%) while Miami's dropped a few points (77.3% to 74.0%).

Both teams went in the opposite direction with 3P%, Boston went from 35% in '22 to 30% in '23, while Miami went from 30% to 43%.  Miami made 16 more 3's than the previous year while taking 38 fewer attempts.    Miami's 2p% was pretty close year over year (49.3% to 50.0%).  Would more Boston size lead to more or less Miami 3pa?

[Vermont Green]

I think last year was a combination of personnel mixed with a poor offensive philosophy that ignored easy buckets.  It sounds crazy, but almost any three was seen as a better option than any two.

With the addition of Brogdon to a Finals roster, along with a much better D. White, we should have done better than we did.

That said, the personnel seems better suited to avoiding offensive droughts.  We just need the bench to show up and perform above expectations.

Except the team was worse on the interior.  Significantly worse.  Al got older and significantly worse (I mean he was playing over 35 mpg in the playoffs shooting 48% from 3). Rob couldn't stay healthy and while he was mostly healthy in the playoffs last year, he just wasn't the same level of player.  We didn't replace Theis at all.  The lack of size also pushed Grant into more of a big role and while he shot well his overall play was much worse.

The problem with last year's team was its size, which frankly is a real concern with this year's team.  There just isn't enough size on the roster.

Timelord was hurt for most of the Finals run, and Theis barely played.  I don't think last year's team was that terrible in comparison.

Rob played 17 of the 24 playoff games 2 years ago at 23 mpg.  He missed 6 of the games in the 1st 2 rounds.  Theis played 16 of the 24 games at 12.5 mpg.  7 of the games he didn't play were Miami and GS (including the last 4 when Boston was 1-3).  Horford played an extra 5 mpg and was significantly better even playing the extra time.  Grant dropped 10 mpg and went from every game to not eveylry game.  The reduced minutes from Rob, Grant, and AL and basically of all of Theis' minutes went to smaller players.  The team quite simply got a lot smaller. That effected the defense, rebounding, and more importantly impacted the offensive efficiency of both Tatum and Brown.  Tatum and Brown weren't nearly as good and I would argue that correlated to them having to play more in the bigger positions in the floor.  Tatum is his best at SF and that didn't happen enough in the playoffs last year.

The C's need more size.

I don't disagree about needing more size, but it's not why we lost last year.

Just take the Miami series

22 (we win)
Al 37.3 mpg (6 games)
Rob 22.5 mpg (6 games)
Grant 30.4 mpg
Theis 11.4 mpg (4 games - 46 minutes)
Kornet 7 minutes total

23 (we lose)
Al 28.6 mpg
Rob 18.9 mpg
Grant 24.8 mpg (6 games)
Kornet 19 minutes total

Those are the big minutes. 

Boston actually scored .3 more ppg in 23, but Miami went from 99.7 to 109.1.  In 22 we outrebounded the Heat by 30, that shrunk to 5 in 23.  We had 9 less blocks in 23.  Grant, Rob, and Al went from 53 FT's to 23 FT's. 

Boston lost to Miami because it went smaller.  It needed to play bigger against the smaller team.

I don't think you are wrong in this point but it isn't the whole story either.  I agree completely that when you take Rob Williams out, a great defensive big, and put in White, a great defensive guard, your overall team defense is not as good.  The stats on MIA offense the two different playoff series reflects this.

But we still should have beat MIA.  They had several depth players that shot around 50% from 3.  This of course can be attributed to defense to some degree but sometimes people just hit shots and I saw a lot of the latter in the more recent series vs. MIA.  Also remember that we basically lost Brogdon due to injury.  He went from being a key rotation player to basically being a bad player.  So RWill at about 80% and Brogdon at about 20%.

I also agree that lack of size was an issue last season, mostly the result of RWill being injured/out and/or being less than 100% for essentially the entire season.  It forced us to play the small line up.  That small line up was never as good as the bigger, more traditional line up was the season prior, when RWill was playing like RWill.  The team tried to replace RWill with Derrick White, it was the best they could do.  Now we have Porzingis to replace RWill.  I think the results will be much better.

[Moranis]

I think last year was a combination of personnel mixed with a poor offensive philosophy that ignored easy buckets.  It sounds crazy, but almost any three was seen as a better option than any two.

With the addition of Brogdon to a Finals roster, along with a much better D. White, we should have done better than we did.

That said, the personnel seems better suited to avoiding offensive droughts.  We just need the bench to show up and perform above expectations.

Except the team was worse on the interior.  Significantly worse.  Al got older and significantly worse (I mean he was playing over 35 mpg in the playoffs shooting 48% from 3). Rob couldn't stay healthy and while he was mostly healthy in the playoffs last year, he just wasn't the same level of player.  We didn't replace Theis at all.  The lack of size also pushed Grant into more of a big role and while he shot well his overall play was much worse.

The problem with last year's team was its size, which frankly is a real concern with this year's team.  There just isn't enough size on the roster.

Timelord was hurt for most of the Finals run, and Theis barely played.  I don't think last year's team was that terrible in comparison.

Rob played 17 of the 24 playoff games 2 years ago at 23 mpg.  He missed 6 of the games in the 1st 2 rounds.  Theis played 16 of the 24 games at 12.5 mpg.  7 of the games he didn't play were Miami and GS (including the last 4 when Boston was 1-3).  Horford played an extra 5 mpg and was significantly better even playing the extra time.  Grant dropped 10 mpg and went from every game to not eveylry game.  The reduced minutes from Rob, Grant, and AL and basically of all of Theis' minutes went to smaller players.  The team quite simply got a lot smaller. That effected the defense, rebounding, and more importantly impacted the offensive efficiency of both Tatum and Brown.  Tatum and Brown weren't nearly as good and I would argue that correlated to them having to play more in the bigger positions in the floor.  Tatum is his best at SF and that didn't happen enough in the playoffs last year.

The C's need more size.

I don't disagree about needing more size, but it's not why we lost last year.

Just take the Miami series

22 (we win)
Al 37.3 mpg (6 games)
Rob 22.5 mpg (6 games)
Grant 30.4 mpg
Theis 11.4 mpg (4 games - 46 minutes)
Kornet 7 minutes total

23 (we lose)
Al 28.6 mpg
Rob 18.9 mpg
Grant 24.8 mpg (6 games)
Kornet 19 minutes total

Those are the big minutes. 

Boston actually scored .3 more ppg in 23, but Miami went from 99.7 to 109.1.  In 22 we outrebounded the Heat by 30, that shrunk to 5 in 23.  We had 9 less blocks in 23.  Grant, Rob, and Al went from 53 FT's to 23 FT's. 

Boston lost to Miami because it went smaller.  It needed to play bigger against the smaller team.

Miami beat Boston because Miami's role players shot extremely well and Boston's stars played poorly.

I don't agree that Tatum and Brown played poorly and the numbers generally reflect they weren't much different, but let's say you are right, might all of that be the result of Boston losing its size advantage and playing smaller.  Role players can shoot better when they have smaller guys on them.

Miami didn't even have their 2nd leading scorer in 23 either. 

Boston's biggest problem last year was size and that is again a very real problem for the team.  They have Zinger and Al and a bunch of guys that shouldn't be in the rotation or smaller guys like Brissett.  The team needs at least 1 big and probably 2 that are better than Kornet or they are going to get brutalized by bigger teams or not be able to take advantage of smaller teams like the Heat. 

I love White, but if Boston can change him into 2 players like a big and a combo guard, they probably should do that.  The Zinger trade balanced the roster better, but the Holiday trade unbalanced it again.  The team needs more size.

[Roy H.]

I think last year was a combination of personnel mixed with a poor offensive philosophy that ignored easy buckets.  It sounds crazy, but almost any three was seen as a better option than any two.

With the addition of Brogdon to a Finals roster, along with a much better D. White, we should have done better than we did.

That said, the personnel seems better suited to avoiding offensive droughts.  We just need the bench to show up and perform above expectations.

Except the team was worse on the interior.  Significantly worse.  Al got older and significantly worse (I mean he was playing over 35 mpg in the playoffs shooting 48% from 3). Rob couldn't stay healthy and while he was mostly healthy in the playoffs last year, he just wasn't the same level of player.  We didn't replace Theis at all.  The lack of size also pushed Grant into more of a big role and while he shot well his overall play was much worse.

The problem with last year's team was its size, which frankly is a real concern with this year's team.  There just isn't enough size on the roster.

Timelord was hurt for most of the Finals run, and Theis barely played.  I don't think last year's team was that terrible in comparison.

Rob played 17 of the 24 playoff games 2 years ago at 23 mpg.  He missed 6 of the games in the 1st 2 rounds.  Theis played 16 of the 24 games at 12.5 mpg.  7 of the games he didn't play were Miami and GS (including the last 4 when Boston was 1-3).  Horford played an extra 5 mpg and was significantly better even playing the extra time.  Grant dropped 10 mpg and went from every game to not eveylry game.  The reduced minutes from Rob, Grant, and AL and basically of all of Theis' minutes went to smaller players.  The team quite simply got a lot smaller. That effected the defense, rebounding, and more importantly impacted the offensive efficiency of both Tatum and Brown.  Tatum and Brown weren't nearly as good and I would argue that correlated to them having to play more in the bigger positions in the floor.  Tatum is his best at SF and that didn't happen enough in the playoffs last year.

The C's need more size.

I don't disagree about needing more size, but it's not why we lost last year.

Just take the Miami series

22 (we win)
Al 37.3 mpg (6 games)
Rob 22.5 mpg (6 games)
Grant 30.4 mpg
Theis 11.4 mpg (4 games - 46 minutes)
Kornet 7 minutes total

23 (we lose)
Al 28.6 mpg
Rob 18.9 mpg
Grant 24.8 mpg (6 games)
Kornet 19 minutes total

Those are the big minutes. 

Boston actually scored .3 more ppg in 23, but Miami went from 99.7 to 109.1.  In 22 we outrebounded the Heat by 30, that shrunk to 5 in 23.  We had 9 less blocks in 23.  Grant, Rob, and Al went from 53 FT's to 23 FT's. 

Boston lost to Miami because it went smaller.  It needed to play bigger against the smaller team.

Miami beat Boston because Miami's role players shot extremely well and Boston's stars played poorly.

I don't agree that Tatum and Brown played poorly and the numbers generally reflect they weren't much different, but let's say you are right, might all of that be the result of Boston losing its size advantage and playing smaller.  Role players can shoot better when they have smaller guys on them.

Miami didn't even have their 2nd leading scorer in 23 either. 

Boston's biggest problem last year was size and that is again a very real problem for the team.  They have Zinger and Al and a bunch of guys that shouldn't be in the rotation or smaller guys like Brissett.  The team needs at least 1 big and probably 2 that are better than Kornet or they are going to get brutalized by bigger teams or not be able to take advantage of smaller teams like the Heat. 

I love White, but if Boston can change him into 2 players like a big and a combo guard, they probably should do that.  The Zinger trade balanced the roster better, but the Holiday trade unbalanced it again.  The team needs more size.

Take a look at their shooting, turnovers, scoring rate.  The Jays played poorly overall, particularly in the losses.

And no, I don't think that has anything to do with size. 

[KG Living Legend]

There was something mentally wrong with last year's team too. And the year before despite us making the finals.

They certainly had talent to win. But how many times did they play down to teams or just come out flat and extend series they shouldn't have. We shouldn't have needed 6 games to beat Atlanta, need Tatum heroics to get to game 7 in Philly or go down 0-3 against miami

Even the finals year. That Miami series was trading blowouts until game 7. Milwaukee series the same.

So Brad blew everything up. Traded depth for more high end talent. At least 2 of holiday/KP/brown/Tatum should be going off on a given night.

Also loaded up on coaching staff. Van Gundy/Lee/Cassell behind Mazzulla is crazy.

And being "new" guys. I think all are more apt to play their role. Easier to come into another team and sacrifice than be a longer tenured guy and sacrifice.

 The most overrated thing in the NBC is depth. It's a regular season asset.. it doesn't matter in the playoffs.  If you have major injuries I'm the playoffs,  you lose period. 

 Nuggets won it with a 7 man rotation.  They won because Jokic is the best player in the league.  Murray was fantastic.  Porter Jr can score and Aaron Gordon and Brown were perfect compliments.

 Also the Celtics have scrubs, but we have a lot of them at every position.  I expect just a few to grow into a role by seasons end. 

 We have a dominant seven man rotation. Horford,  Zinger,  Tatum, Brown,  Jrue, White, Prichard

Three shooters Hauser, Svi, PP

Four Defensive Wings Brissett,  Stevens,  Walsh, Blanton

Three back up bigs Gabriel,  Queta,  Kornet

 Very solid job building the bench with no money IMO. 👏

[Moranis]

I think last year was a combination of personnel mixed with a poor offensive philosophy that ignored easy buckets.  It sounds crazy, but almost any three was seen as a better option than any two.

With the addition of Brogdon to a Finals roster, along with a much better D. White, we should have done better than we did.

That said, the personnel seems better suited to avoiding offensive droughts.  We just need the bench to show up and perform above expectations.

Except the team was worse on the interior.  Significantly worse.  Al got older and significantly worse (I mean he was playing over 35 mpg in the playoffs shooting 48% from 3). Rob couldn't stay healthy and while he was mostly healthy in the playoffs last year, he just wasn't the same level of player.  We didn't replace Theis at all.  The lack of size also pushed Grant into more of a big role and while he shot well his overall play was much worse.

The problem with last year's team was its size, which frankly is a real concern with this year's team.  There just isn't enough size on the roster.

Timelord was hurt for most of the Finals run, and Theis barely played.  I don't think last year's team was that terrible in comparison.

Rob played 17 of the 24 playoff games 2 years ago at 23 mpg.  He missed 6 of the games in the 1st 2 rounds.  Theis played 16 of the 24 games at 12.5 mpg.  7 of the games he didn't play were Miami and GS (including the last 4 when Boston was 1-3).  Horford played an extra 5 mpg and was significantly better even playing the extra time.  Grant dropped 10 mpg and went from every game to not eveylry game.  The reduced minutes from Rob, Grant, and AL and basically of all of Theis' minutes went to smaller players.  The team quite simply got a lot smaller. That effected the defense, rebounding, and more importantly impacted the offensive efficiency of both Tatum and Brown.  Tatum and Brown weren't nearly as good and I would argue that correlated to them having to play more in the bigger positions in the floor.  Tatum is his best at SF and that didn't happen enough in the playoffs last year.

The C's need more size.

I don't disagree about needing more size, but it's not why we lost last year.

Just take the Miami series

22 (we win)
Al 37.3 mpg (6 games)
Rob 22.5 mpg (6 games)
Grant 30.4 mpg
Theis 11.4 mpg (4 games - 46 minutes)
Kornet 7 minutes total

23 (we lose)
Al 28.6 mpg
Rob 18.9 mpg
Grant 24.8 mpg (6 games)
Kornet 19 minutes total

Those are the big minutes. 

Boston actually scored .3 more ppg in 23, but Miami went from 99.7 to 109.1.  In 22 we outrebounded the Heat by 30, that shrunk to 5 in 23.  We had 9 less blocks in 23.  Grant, Rob, and Al went from 53 FT's to 23 FT's. 

Boston lost to Miami because it went smaller.  It needed to play bigger against the smaller team.

Miami beat Boston because Miami's role players shot extremely well and Boston's stars played poorly.

I don't agree that Tatum and Brown played poorly and the numbers generally reflect they weren't much different, but let's say you are right, might all of that be the result of Boston losing its size advantage and playing smaller.  Role players can shoot better when they have smaller guys on them.

Miami didn't even have their 2nd leading scorer in 23 either. 

Boston's biggest problem last year was size and that is again a very real problem for the team.  They have Zinger and Al and a bunch of guys that shouldn't be in the rotation or smaller guys like Brissett.  The team needs at least 1 big and probably 2 that are better than Kornet or they are going to get brutalized by bigger teams or not be able to take advantage of smaller teams like the Heat. 

I love White, but if Boston can change him into 2 players like a big and a combo guard, they probably should do that.  The Zinger trade balanced the roster better, but the Holiday trade unbalanced it again.  The team needs more size.

Take a look at their shooting, turnovers, scoring rate.  The Jays played poorly overall, particularly in the losses.

And no, I don't think that has anything to do with size.

they played worsen in the losses, SHOCKING.  They had 56 turnovers in 22, they had 51 in 23. Tatum shot better from 2 and the line in 23, though was a lot worse from 3.  Brown was better from 2 but worse from the line and much worse from 3.  Perhaps guarding bigger guys made them more tired and wore them out more. Though Smart, Grant, and White were all a lot better shooting in 23 than they were in 22 and they shot ALOT more 3's. Like several more a game collectively.

[Vermont Green]

I found an interesting stat regarding the 5-man unit of Smart-Brown-Tatum-Horford-Williams (per 82games).  In 2021-22, that unit was +218 in 436 minutes (it was the most used lineup).  In 2022-23, that same unit was -17 in only 80 minutes (the 5th most used lineup).

In 2022-23, the most use lineup was Smart-White-Brown-Tatum-Horford, +103 in 426 minutes.  That is only about half as good as the 2021-22 main lineup.  Williams was hurt and missed a bunch of games at the start of the season and never seemed to really get back to 100%.  But what I will call the "White" unit was not nearly as good in 2022-23 as the Williams lineup was in 2021-22, not ever at any point in the season.

The White unit with Porzingis was the main unit in the last preseason game vs. the Knicks.  That unit played against the Knicks second unit, I think only one regular starter (Robinson).  People got their wish to see Horford come off the bench.  That rotation did fine, but nothing special.  My preferred unit [Holiday-Brown-Tatum-Porzingis-Horford] did get some court time, I thought the defense was better but I can't find specific stats by units, I guess they don't do that for preseason games.  Towards the end of the game, Horford and Porzingis were out there with Pritchard-Banton-Hauser, not sure why they put that unit out there.

I think there was a big difference between 2021-22 Rob Williams and 2022-23 Rob Williams, he was just not the same due to his recovery from the knee injury.  Hard to know if they still would have gone with the "White" lineup if Williams was able to play better or was available right from the start of the season.  They went with the Williams lineup towards the end of the season, it seemed like due to the players asking for this, but they ended up going back to the White unit after maybe 10 games or something (Williams started 20 games total).

Mazzulla seems to like the smaller lineup.  (If you couldn't tell, I don't agree).  I wonder what our new senior consultant (VanGundy) would recommend?  Would he vote for the big unit or the small unit?  Him being kind of old-school, I suspect he would go with the big unit, all things equal.