2023 CS Historic Draft Thread - Results in OP!

[gouki88]

Is Sheed the 3rd best PF in the league?

This is considering Pau at center and Amare at PF for that Nets team. I have C Webb #1 Kemp #2 Sheed #3. Tempted by LMA and Blake to round out the top 5.

I would have Brand top 5 instead of LMA. The order, besides Webber at #1, is hard to determine

[Kernewek]

Is Sheed the 3rd best PF in the league?

This is considering Pau at center and Amare at PF for that Nets team. I have C Webb #1 Kemp #2 Sheed #3. Tempted by LMA and Blake to round out the top 5.

I would have Brand top 5 instead of LMA. The order, besides Webber at #1, is hard to determine

Even then, the head-to-head for Sheed and Webber is firmly planted in Sheed's favour (in Portland and Detroit):
https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=wallara01&player_id2=webbech01

To be honest, I think placing Kemp and Blake are the most difficult because whilst I have to assume Kemp would be more effective than Blake (owing to my memory of prime Kemp) I'm not sure how well his game translates away from the 90's grind it out style. There's some other available guys that we can draw comparisons to as well, although Shawn is clearly the cream of the crop for a rim-rattling PF.

[Roy H.]

Is Sheed the 3rd best PF in the league?

This is considering Pau at center and Amare at PF for that Nets team. I have C Webb #1 Kemp #2 Sheed #3. Tempted by LMA and Blake to round out the top 5.

I would have Brand top 5 instead of LMA. The order, besides Webber at #1, is hard to determine

Also important:  we"re judging peak seasons, not careers.  A guy like Brand had a major injury, but at his peak he was a 25 / 10 guy with 2.5 blocks.

I would agree on Webber as the top PF.  His passing is a unique skill, to go along with great scoring and rebounding numbers.  After that, I'd have to see individual seasons to decide, I think.

[smokeablount]

Webber is #1, I have Sheed #2, and I have Blake/Kemp as 3/4 in some order to I love the value of those two guys in the 4th round.

[tazzmaniac]

Is Sheed the 3rd best PF in the league?

This is considering Pau at center and Amare at PF for that Nets team. I have C Webb #1 Kemp #2 Sheed #3. Tempted by LMA and Blake to round out the top 5.

You have Amare as a PF but don't have him in your top 5.  By what standard are you judging?  Why would Sheed be ahead of him? 

[Kernewek]

Webber is #1, I have Sheed #2, and I have Blake/Kemp as 3/4 in some order to I love the value of those two guys in the 4th round.

I think my personal no-particular-order-top-5 rounds out with Pau and probably Brand if we're consolidating Kemp Griffin Jr like that and considering the team, but as a raw statline I don't see as much differential between someone like Amar'e or LMA and Webber.

[smokeablount]

Did some extra thinking.

3 guys at the top of my big board with 7 picks before mine.

Will one fall to me?

Going to be a suspenseful day!

[smokeablount]

Webber is #1, I have Sheed #2, and I have Blake/Kemp as 3/4 in some order to I love the value of those two guys in the 4th round.

I think my personal no-particular-order-top-5 rounds out with Pau and probably Brand if we're consolidating Kemp Griffin Jr like that and considering the team, but as a raw statline I don't see as much differential between someone like Amar'e or LMA and Webber.

Oh I had Pau as a Center. Yeah he’d prolly be my #2 PF behind C-Wedd, prolly ahead of Sheed, and then my preference is Blake, Kemp.

Sheed is interesting tho. That blend of D, athleticism and shooting.

imo the difference with Webber is he proved that without the refs fixing it, he could be the #1 guy on a legit title winner. That’s not something any of the others can say, tho Pau was FMVP worthy.

[Moranis]

Is Sheed the 3rd best PF in the league?

This is considering Pau at center and Amare at PF for that Nets team. I have C Webb #1 Kemp #2 Sheed #3. Tempted by LMA and Blake to round out the top 5.

I'm going woth Pau at PF, but why would Sheed, Aldridge, or Blake be ahead or Amar'e? 

[smokeablount]

Is Sheed the 3rd best PF in the league?

This is considering Pau at center and Amare at PF for that Nets team. I have C Webb #1 Kemp #2 Sheed #3. Tempted by LMA and Blake to round out the top 5.

I'm going woth Pau at PF, but why would Sheed, Aldridge, or Blake be ahead or Amar'e?

Why would Amare be ahead of Sheed or Blake? His D is awful, he is a black hole.

Also, you aren’t inheriting Steve Nash, your PG is Mo Cheeks.

The NYK caliber Amare you’re actually ending up with isn’t better than prime Sheed or Blake, IMO.

[Roy H.]

Is Sheed the 3rd best PF in the league?

This is considering Pau at center and Amare at PF for that Nets team. I have C Webb #1 Kemp #2 Sheed #3. Tempted by LMA and Blake to round out the top 5.

I'm going woth Pau at PF, but why would Sheed, Aldridge, or Blake be ahead or Amar'e?

Why would Amare be ahead of Sheed or Blake? His D is awful, he is a black hole.

Also, you aren’t inheriting Steve Nash, your PG is Mo Cheeks.

The NYK caliber Amare you’re actually ending up with isn’t better than prime Sheed or Blake, IMO.

The numbers, guessing at peak seasons:

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=griffbl01&p1yrfrom=2014&p1yrto=2014&player_id2=stoudam01&p2yrfrom=2008&p2yrto=2008&player_id3=brandel01&p3yrfrom=2006&p3yrto=2006&player_id4=wallara01&p4yrfrom=2001&p4yrto=2001

[smokeablount]

Is Sheed the 3rd best PF in the league?

This is considering Pau at center and Amare at PF for that Nets team. I have C Webb #1 Kemp #2 Sheed #3. Tempted by LMA and Blake to round out the top 5.

I'm going woth Pau at PF, but why would Sheed, Aldridge, or Blake be ahead or Amar'e?

Why would Amare be ahead of Sheed or Blake? His D is awful, he is a black hole.

Also, you aren’t inheriting Steve Nash, your PG is Mo Cheeks.

The NYK caliber Amare you’re actually ending up with isn’t better than prime Sheed or Blake, IMO.

The numbers, guessing at peak seasons:

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=griffbl01&p1yrfrom=2014&p1yrto=2014&player_id2=stoudam01&p2yrfrom=2008&p2yrto=2008&player_id3=brandel01&p3yrfrom=2006&p3yrto=2006&player_id4=wallara01&p4yrfrom=2001&p4yrto=2001

I struggled with rating Amare/Marion because of Nash.

Marion went to Miami mid season when he was traded, and his impact metrics were roughly 1/3 of what they were in PHX.

Amare experienced a similar but less pronounced drop off with the Knicks. I just don’t think it’s viable to project them as the same guys without Nash.

Especially when we’re critiquing whether multiple high usage guys can co-exist, when, if they can pass and run a good offense it should just increase efficiency.

Or whether guys from the 70s could shoot 3’s, or guys from the 90’s could shoot high volume.

Don’t see how we split hairs on those but avoid the teammate topic.

[Roy H.]

Is Sheed the 3rd best PF in the league?

This is considering Pau at center and Amare at PF for that Nets team. I have C Webb #1 Kemp #2 Sheed #3. Tempted by LMA and Blake to round out the top 5.

I'm going woth Pau at PF, but why would Sheed, Aldridge, or Blake be ahead or Amar'e?

Why would Amare be ahead of Sheed or Blake? His D is awful, he is a black hole.

Also, you aren’t inheriting Steve Nash, your PG is Mo Cheeks.

The NYK caliber Amare you’re actually ending up with isn’t better than prime Sheed or Blake, IMO.

The numbers, guessing at peak seasons:

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=griffbl01&p1yrfrom=2014&p1yrto=2014&player_id2=stoudam01&p2yrfrom=2008&p2yrto=2008&player_id3=brandel01&p3yrfrom=2006&p3yrto=2006&player_id4=wallara01&p4yrfrom=2001&p4yrto=2001

I struggled with rating Amare/Marion because of Nash.

Marion went to Miami mid season when he was traded, and his impact metrics were roughly 1/3 of what they were in PHX.

Amare experienced a similar but less pronounced drop off with the Knicks. I just don’t think it’s viable to project them as the same guys without Nash.

Especially when we’re critiquing whether multiple high usage guys can co-exist, when, if they can pass and run a good offense it should just increase efficiency.

Or whether guys from the 70s could shoot 3’s, or guys from the 90’s could shoot high volume.

Don’t see how we split hairs on those but avoid the teammate topic.

It's pretty subjective.  There's definitely a Steve Nash impact, particularly in Amare's FG%.  But, even before Nash you could tell he was going to be an excellent scorer; he averaged 21/9 the year before Nash got there.

I don't know how you parse it all out.  I just know that of those guys, I'm taking Brand.

[Kernewek]

Is Sheed the 3rd best PF in the league?

This is considering Pau at center and Amare at PF for that Nets team. I have C Webb #1 Kemp #2 Sheed #3. Tempted by LMA and Blake to round out the top 5.

You have Amare as a PF but don't have him in your top 5.  By what standard are you judging?  Why would Sheed be ahead of him?

Because he was better on both sides of the ball, had a more complete offensive game, and impacted winning more significantly at every stop throughout his career.

Now, there's an argument that picking a prime Sheed season is fairly difficult because the day in day out of his entire career was that you were just as likely to see him light up CWebb and the Kings on a random Tuesday or put Pau Gasol in the dumpster on a Wednesday  as you are to see him pick up two fouls in the first and get thrown out on the following Monday. That's fair. But in terms of how he's discussed by his peers and how he lifted up his teams? No comparison.

[smokeablount]

Is Sheed the 3rd best PF in the league?

This is considering Pau at center and Amare at PF for that Nets team. I have C Webb #1 Kemp #2 Sheed #3. Tempted by LMA and Blake to round out the top 5.

I'm going woth Pau at PF, but why would Sheed, Aldridge, or Blake be ahead or Amar'e?

Why would Amare be ahead of Sheed or Blake? His D is awful, he is a black hole.

Also, you aren’t inheriting Steve Nash, your PG is Mo Cheeks.

The NYK caliber Amare you’re actually ending up with isn’t better than prime Sheed or Blake, IMO.

The numbers, guessing at peak seasons:

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=griffbl01&p1yrfrom=2014&p1yrto=2014&player_id2=stoudam01&p2yrfrom=2008&p2yrto=2008&player_id3=brandel01&p3yrfrom=2006&p3yrto=2006&player_id4=wallara01&p4yrfrom=2001&p4yrto=2001

I struggled with rating Amare/Marion because of Nash.

Marion went to Miami mid season when he was traded, and his impact metrics were roughly 1/3 of what they were in PHX.

Amare experienced a similar but less pronounced drop off with the Knicks. I just don’t think it’s viable to project them as the same guys without Nash.

Especially when we’re critiquing whether multiple high usage guys can co-exist, when, if they can pass and run a good offense it should just increase efficiency.

Or whether guys from the 70s could shoot 3’s, or guys from the 90’s could shoot high volume.

Don’t see how we split hairs on those but avoid the teammate topic.

It's pretty subjective.  There's definitely a Steve Nash impact, particularly in Amare's FG%.  But, even before Nash you could tell he was going to be an excellent scorer; he averaged 21/9 the year before Nash got there.

I don't know how you parse it all out.  I just know that of those guys, I'm taking Brand.

I like Brand. He was the #1 pick and didn’t bust for a reason.