Based on this discussion, I got curious about ranking the top "bigs" in the league and where Porzingis ranks. The definition of "big" can be somewhat subjective but for my analysis, I took only players that are clearly a PF or a C as their natural position, no swings or any other marginal interpretation of position. To get the list, I went to traditional player stats for 2022-23 regular season. I filtered for GP>50 and REB>8. Then I ranked by PTS/GM. The resulting list was not perfect, it included Doncic, Tatum, and LeBron, who I sorted out as not bigs, but the remaining 30 or so I felt were clearly bigs. Here is the list or the top 10 (again, ranked on scoring):
Embiid
Giannis
Davis
Markkanen
Randle
Jokic
Porzingis
Adebayo
Sabonis
Ayton
I went through the next 11-25 or so to pick outliers that may warrant making a top 15. Towns didn't make the sort due to games. Siakam only had 7.8 rebs. Capela and Gobert don't score like some of the others but excel in defense and rebounding. And I added Vucevic as he was 11th by the original sort and I didn't see anyone else who would clearly bump him. So the remaining 5 are:
Vucevic
Towns
Siakam
Gobert
Capela
I think that is a fair top 15 list of bigs. Most teams still start 2 bigs, but not all. The main question is, where does Porzingis rank on this list. I think of it as who would I rather have on the Celtics in place of Porzingis for the next 1-3 season. Durability is a factor to consider. Contract can be kept out of it (most of these have pretty big contracts anyway). I know Zion is a consideration but I kept him out, he can be considered though if you would rather have him for the next 1-3 seasons than Porzingis.
My list of for sure better are:
Embiid
Giannis
Jokic
That is it. Then there is a list of "about the same":
Davis
Markkanen
Towns
Adebayo
(Zion)
I have Porzingis in the 4-8 range of all bigs. Maybe 5-10. That essentially means we are going to have the best big on the floor most of the time, maybe as much as 25 of 30. Durability is the biggest concern with Porzingis but many of these top bigs have that concern also. Jokic is pretty amazing in that regard. He has been extremely durable, part of why he is really the #1 big of all of them.
Just a fantastic post. I might have Davis listed as "definitely better" than Porzingis, but that's just me.
Even then, as a top 5 big in the league? That's a huge pickup by Brad. And we got the better end of the deal in those trades.
I marked Davis down on durability. I agree that when he is on the court, he is probably a little better. But I am not sure I would trade Porzingis for him straight up with the view of the next 3 seasons. Perfectly reasonable to have him ahead though.
You marked Davis for durability, but not Porzingis. That seems weird given how many games Porzingis has missed (Davis has missed a bit more over the last 4 years, but it isn't all that many more).
Nearly all the bigs have some level of durability concern. My expectation is that Porzingis is going to hold up better than Davis over the next few seasons. That Porzingis will play more games moving forward. I have them ranked overall about the same although I would not swap them straight up, I prefer Porzingis, but not by a ton.
So where do you rank Porzingis? 5th with Davis 4th? That is fine, perfectly reasonable opinion.
i'd have Towns ahead of Zinger as well, probably Bam, and if I had any confidence in zion staying healthy him as well. I can see arguments for a guys like Sabonis and Randle as well (much better passers and rebounders). So Zinger is at least 7 behind Jokic, Giannis, Embiid, Davis, Towns, and Bam. But I could see a reasonable argument he isn't even a top 10 big. Zinger is a fine player, solid all around skills, but he isn't an elite defender (like Bam) or an elite offensive player (like Towns). He is fine as a 3rd option, but can't be a 2nd option, so I think he has to be behind the guys that have shown that ability.
Classic overrating of a player now that he is on your favorite team. Typical fan thing to do.
You are funny. You list 7 ahead of him (all reasonable btw - though I’d put him even with Towns and Bam) and 2 that you could see an argument for. That’s 9. Then you say you could see a reasonable argument that he’s not a top 10 big. So you made an argument that he could be #10 - if you placed EVERY questionably better player ahead of him. So I think by definition it probably isn’t a reasonable argument to place him out of the top 10. That of course doesn’t mean you can’t make the argument.
its a typcial Moranis list. you should see his list trying to justify that Jaylen isn't a top 20 player. He says we as fans always overrate our players. but he will do the exact opposite and throw anyone in there to show that our players really aren't that good. not saying KP is a top 5 big. But I mean i'm not sure if Randle/Bam are really that much better....KP was an intriguing prospect on the Knicks. then Dallas couldnt really find a way to use him with Doncic and he kind of was unseen on the wizards.
But he's entering his "NBA Prime" of 27 years old. so there is optimism that his last year jump in performance is really just understanding the game now.
either way, whether KP is top 10 or outside of top 10 hes not coming here to be a #1 or even #2 option. he's coming here to be a #3 option and offer something different offensively and help make things easier for tatum/brown.
he's a type of player we haven't had on our team really before in the tatum/brown era. a guy who can score in the post, can also pop out for a 3 or mid range and someone who can beat the zone. At least we haven't had since Horford became more of a roleplayer
It is funny, I put together what I feel is a thoughtful post based on some statistical research, and some opinion, to try and come up with where Porzingis is on the list of top bigs. You expect people to disagree or have different opinions when the statement is about something as specific as a list of top players. And for all of that, you get back a comment like "I can't believe you think Porzingis is going to be more durable than Anthony Davis". OK, fine, who knows. I don't really know what the disagreement is sometimes.
As to the list, I don't feel you can say that Anthony Davis is for sure going to be better than Porzingis over the next few seasons. That is why I put him in the "about the same" tier. I also could have called that tier, "could go either way" tier. In any given season some in that tier may have a better season than Porzingis, others won't, due to any number of factors. I see it as really hard to put that 4-8 group or 5-10 group in any specific order. I am actually pretty happy to have Porzingis on the Celtics out of that group. I think he is going to defend better and fit in to the team better than Towns, for example. I like Adebayo but his offense is more limited than Porzingis. I think Porzingis' offensive versatility is going to fit really well with Tatum and Brown.
So yeah, unless we are playing MIL or DEN or PHI, the Celtics have a good chance to have the best big on the floor, at worst about the same as the best. Add in to that the fact that with Tatum, we are usually going to have the best wing too. And that does not even get to Brown. And we are also going to have the best or one of the best 6th man. This team is going to be really good. That is the point, not whether Porzingis is 4th or 7th or 10th. Towns may have a great year and end up ahead of him. Davis may stay healthy all year. If that happens, maybe Porzingis ends up 6th or 7th. That is how it seems like it is going to go to me.
Topic: Chris Mannix: Worried about Porzingis (Read 25747 times)