I think we got better.

[Vermont Green]

I think the starting lineup is offensively stronger.


I think the team took a major hit in depth and flexibility.   

I think it really depends on what vet mins they can still sign.

This.

Major offensive upgrade to the starting lineup and team as a whole, as well as providing more overall rim protection and post defense.

However, our depth quality took a major hit, and we certainly lost some flexibility in lineups.

We need a fourth big, preferably a swing type that can play the 3/4 position and be more plug in play with our other bigs and wings to provide some flexibility.

What major hit did our depth take?  Many are saying this but I am not seeing it.  See my post above or just look at who played what minutes last season.  There is no major hit.  The only "hit" I see is replacing the 569 minutes that Griffin played.  That is not "major", in fact it is very minor.  And we are still likely to add 2-3 players.

[theswitch]

We got more leveraged. More reliant on guys with injury issues. That's at least half of our core rotation. If we have our top 7, we should be in a place to close. If we lose one, we are in trouble. If we lose two, we are done.

I've come around on Brissett. I think he can be a real player and a really quality fit for us as a 9th or 10th man. But there's a difference between 15-20 minutes a game in the regular season and having to play starter minutes in the playoffs if one guy (Porzingis or Rob or Horford) gets hurt. Same with Pritchard. I'm thrilled with him having 15-20 minutes a game in the regular season and spot minutes in the playoffs. I'm terrified of relying on him.

[celts55]

First, Grant could have left and Celtics get nothing, so 2 seconds and an exemption isn’t terribly.
In my opinion Porzingis is a much better player than Smart.
That being said, there are still some roster spots available, so I’m not going to stress too much yet. Let’s see what happens

[jpotter33]

I think the starting lineup is offensively stronger.


I think the team took a major hit in depth and flexibility.   

I think it really depends on what vet mins they can still sign.

This.

Major offensive upgrade to the starting lineup and team as a whole, as well as providing more overall rim protection and post defense.

However, our depth quality took a major hit, and we certainly lost some flexibility in lineups.

We need a fourth big, preferably a swing type that can play the 3/4 position and be more plug in play with our other bigs and wings to provide some flexibility.

What major hit did our depth take?  Many are saying this but I am not seeing it.  See my post above or just look at who played what minutes last season.  There is no major hit.  The only "hit" I see is replacing the 569 minutes that Griffin played.  That is not "major", in fact it is very minor.  And we are still likely to add 2-3 players.

Depth *quality* is what I was referring to, which I consider to be our non-starters.

Losing both GWill and Musky - who are very good bench level players - certainly hurts our big depth quality when replacing them with end of the bench guys, especially given their differing skill sets and lack of shooting.

[Vermont Green]

We got more leveraged. More reliant on guys with injury issues. That's at least half of our core rotation. If we have our top 7, we should be in a place to close. If we lose one, we are in trouble. If we lose two, we are done.

I've come around on Brissett. I think he can be a real player and a really quality fit for us as a 9th or 10th man. But there's a difference between 15-20 minutes a game in the regular season and having to play starter minutes in the playoffs if one guy (Porzingis or Rob or Horford) gets hurt. Same with Pritchard. I'm thrilled with him having 15-20 minutes a game in the regular season and spot minutes in the playoffs. I'm terrified of relying on him.

I think this is more perception than reality.  We are not more reliant on Horford and RWill, we are less.  We have Porzingis.  When RWill was hurt last season, it was Grant who got minutes.  This season, we have Porzingis.  I don't see how that is being more reliant on Horford and RWill.

With Smart gone, we do have less redundancy regarding Brogdon and White, that is true, but I am fine with it if Pritchard needs to play more.  That is simply a trade off.  We are trading off depth at combo guard (Smart) so that we have more depth at PF and C with Porzingis.  It is about the same worst case and in terms of roster balance vs. injury risk, I think things are better balanced this season.  We have more redundancy at the positions that have the most risk.

And let's see what we can do to add a second team PF to replace Grant.  If we are able to do that, we could end up better off.

[Roy H.]

We got more leveraged. More reliant on guys with injury issues. That's at least half of our core rotation. If we have our top 7, we should be in a place to close. If we lose one, we are in trouble. If we lose two, we are done.

I've come around on Brissett. I think he can be a real player and a really quality fit for us as a 9th or 10th man. But there's a difference between 15-20 minutes a game in the regular season and having to play starter minutes in the playoffs if one guy (Porzingis or Rob or Horford) gets hurt. Same with Pritchard. I'm thrilled with him having 15-20 minutes a game in the regular season and spot minutes in the playoffs. I'm terrified of relying on him.

I think this is more perception than reality.  We are not more reliant on Horford and RWill, we are less.  We have Porzingis.  When RWill was hurt last season, it was Grant who got minutes.  This season, we have Porzingis.  I don't see how that is being more reliant on Horford and RWill.

With Smart gone, we do have less redundancy regarding Brogdon and White, that is true, but I am fine with it if Pritchard needs to play more.  That is simply a trade off.  We are trading off depth at combo guard (Smart) so that we have more depth at PF and C with Porzingis.  It is about the same worst case and in terms of roster balance vs. injury risk, I think things are better balanced this season.  We have more redundancy at the positions that have the most risk.

And let's see what we can do to add a second team PF to replace Grant.  If we are able to do that, we could end up better off.

Porzingis and Brogdon fall into the injury prone category.  KP missed 19 games last year -- roughly a quarter of the season -- and that was his most games played since 2017!

2018:  48 games played
2019: 0 games played
2020: 57 games played
2021:  43 games played
2022: 51 games played

We'll be fortunate if KP and Timelord can play 82 games combined.  Horford is an ironman by comparison.

Same thing with Brogdon:

2018:  48 games played
2019: 64 games played
2020: 54 games played
2021:  56 games played
2022: 36 games played

[Vermont Green]

I think the starting lineup is offensively stronger.


I think the team took a major hit in depth and flexibility.   

I think it really depends on what vet mins they can still sign.

This.

Major offensive upgrade to the starting lineup and team as a whole, as well as providing more overall rim protection and post defense.

However, our depth quality took a major hit, and we certainly lost some flexibility in lineups.

We need a fourth big, preferably a swing type that can play the 3/4 position and be more plug in play with our other bigs and wings to provide some flexibility.

What major hit did our depth take?  Many are saying this but I am not seeing it.  See my post above or just look at who played what minutes last season.  There is no major hit.  The only "hit" I see is replacing the 569 minutes that Griffin played.  That is not "major", in fact it is very minor.  And we are still likely to add 2-3 players.

Depth *quality* is what I was referring to, which I consider to be our non-starters.

Losing both GWill and Musky - who are very good bench level players - certainly hurts our big depth quality when replacing them with end of the bench guys, especially given their differing skill sets and lack of shooting.

You are not alone in having this view, but I guess I see it differently.  Grant would be playing less anyway due to having Porzingis and also having RWill not coming off of surgery (hopefully that will mean he plays more minutes).  What would have been left for Grant to play is being replaced by Brissett.  Brissett to me is a question but is probably going to be fine, maybe a little better than Pritchard or Hauser, but in that range.

And Muscala hardly played.  He is a fine enough 12th bench piece or whatever but not a major issue.  It is minor around the edges things that could easily be addressed with a vet min signing, even Griffin coming back.  If replacing the Muscala's 323 minutes and 118 total points is the major off season issue, we are in pretty good shape.

[SHAQATTACK]

Just thinking how EVEN  much better we d got with a new head coach 

[BringToughnessBack]

Add another year closer to Tatum's prime and Brown entering his prime, we will be better for sure. Having a legit PF/Center hybrid now sure helps as well.

Just curious who is going be distributing the ball to all these stars.

[Vermont Green]

We got more leveraged. More reliant on guys with injury issues. That's at least half of our core rotation. If we have our top 7, we should be in a place to close. If we lose one, we are in trouble. If we lose two, we are done.

I've come around on Brissett. I think he can be a real player and a really quality fit for us as a 9th or 10th man. But there's a difference between 15-20 minutes a game in the regular season and having to play starter minutes in the playoffs if one guy (Porzingis or Rob or Horford) gets hurt. Same with Pritchard. I'm thrilled with him having 15-20 minutes a game in the regular season and spot minutes in the playoffs. I'm terrified of relying on him.

I think this is more perception than reality.  We are not more reliant on Horford and RWill, we are less.  We have Porzingis.  When RWill was hurt last season, it was Grant who got minutes.  This season, we have Porzingis.  I don't see how that is being more reliant on Horford and RWill.

With Smart gone, we do have less redundancy regarding Brogdon and White, that is true, but I am fine with it if Pritchard needs to play more.  That is simply a trade off.  We are trading off depth at combo guard (Smart) so that we have more depth at PF and C with Porzingis.  It is about the same worst case and in terms of roster balance vs. injury risk, I think things are better balanced this season.  We have more redundancy at the positions that have the most risk.

And let's see what we can do to add a second team PF to replace Grant.  If we are able to do that, we could end up better off.

Porzingis and Brogdon fall into the injury prone category.  KP missed 19 games last year -- roughly a quarter of the season -- and that was his most games played since 2017!

2018:  48 games played
2019: 0 games played
2020: 57 games played
2021:  43 games played
2022: 51 games played

We'll be fortunate if KP and Timelord can play 82 games combined.  Horford is an ironman by comparison.

Same thing with Brogdon:

2018:  48 games played
2019: 64 games played
2020: 54 games played
2021:  56 games played
2022: 36 games played

Well my point is that Porzingis provides redundancy when Horford or RWill is out.  That situation is better.  Not worse.  With Porzingis here, we are less reliant on Horford and RWill.  Just the opposite is the case with Brogdon.  With Smart gone, we have less redundancy for Brogdon (our 6th man). 

So in one critical area (PF/C) we are better off, but in the combo guard position, we are worse off.  I feel the net of this trade off is that we are slightly better off.  We were highly vulnerable last season with Horford and RWill.  So much so that we had to move away from the 2-big line up that had been historically good the season before.  But we had excess at the combo guard position so much so that we had a decent player (Pritchard) who there were no minutes for.

Now things are better balanced.  The risk to me is more evenly distributed.  We can get back to the 2-big line up as the core line up.  Pritchard is back in the mix as he should be.

In general, there is always more injury risk with bigs.  So now we have more redundancy where we need it the most.  Sure, Brogdon may get hurt, Smart might too.  But in general, working around an injury to your 6th man combo guard is going to be easier than working around an injury to one of your main bigs.  It is now going to be easier to work around an injury to RWill, for example, with Porzingis on the roster than it would be without Porzingis.

And we are not done with the roster.  The Grant situation was only resolved less than 24 hours ago.  I agree completely that a second team PF is a need.  It is less of a need now that we have Porzingis than it would have been but it is still a need.  A reliable vet wing would be nice too.  But I am the least worried about the combo guard rotation.

[keevsnick]

I would say the teams upside is higher, but the floor may have gotten lower. Basically a bigger risk profile. If it all works and they stay healthy they could be awesome, but if they don't gel or injuries hit it could get somewhat ugly.

[Roy H.]

We got more leveraged. More reliant on guys with injury issues. That's at least half of our core rotation. If we have our top 7, we should be in a place to close. If we lose one, we are in trouble. If we lose two, we are done.

I've come around on Brissett. I think he can be a real player and a really quality fit for us as a 9th or 10th man. But there's a difference between 15-20 minutes a game in the regular season and having to play starter minutes in the playoffs if one guy (Porzingis or Rob or Horford) gets hurt. Same with Pritchard. I'm thrilled with him having 15-20 minutes a game in the regular season and spot minutes in the playoffs. I'm terrified of relying on him.

I think this is more perception than reality.  We are not more reliant on Horford and RWill, we are less.  We have Porzingis.  When RWill was hurt last season, it was Grant who got minutes.  This season, we have Porzingis.  I don't see how that is being more reliant on Horford and RWill.

With Smart gone, we do have less redundancy regarding Brogdon and White, that is true, but I am fine with it if Pritchard needs to play more.  That is simply a trade off.  We are trading off depth at combo guard (Smart) so that we have more depth at PF and C with Porzingis.  It is about the same worst case and in terms of roster balance vs. injury risk, I think things are better balanced this season.  We have more redundancy at the positions that have the most risk.

And let's see what we can do to add a second team PF to replace Grant.  If we are able to do that, we could end up better off.

Porzingis and Brogdon fall into the injury prone category.  KP missed 19 games last year -- roughly a quarter of the season -- and that was his most games played since 2017!

2018:  48 games played
2019: 0 games played
2020: 57 games played
2021:  43 games played
2022: 51 games played

We'll be fortunate if KP and Timelord can play 82 games combined.  Horford is an ironman by comparison.

Same thing with Brogdon:

2018:  48 games played
2019: 64 games played
2020: 54 games played
2021:  56 games played
2022: 36 games played

Well my point is that Porzingis provides redundancy when Horford or RWill is out.  That situation is better.  Not worse.  With Porzingis here, we are less reliant on Horford and RWill.  Just the opposite is the case with Brogdon.  With Smart gone, we have less redundancy for Brogdon (our 6th man). 

So in one critical area (PF/C) we are better off, but in the combo guard position, we are worse off.  I feel the net of this trade off is that we are slightly better off.  We were highly vulnerable last season with Horford and RWill.  So much so that we had to move away from the 2-big line up that had been historically good the season before.  But we had excess at the combo guard position so much so that we had a decent player (Pritchard) who there were no minutes for.

Now things are better balanced.  The risk to me is more evenly distributed.  We can get back to the 2-big line up as the core line up.  Pritchard is back in the mix as he should be.

In general, there is always more injury risk with bigs.  So now we have more redundancy where we need it the most.  Sure, Brogdon may get hurt, Smart might too.  But in general, working around an injury to your 6th man combo guard is going to be easier than working around an injury to one of your main bigs.  It is now going to be easier to work around an injury to RWill, for example, with Porzingis on the roster than it would be without Porzingis.

And we are not done with the roster.  The Grant situation was only resolved less than 24 hours ago.  I agree completely that a second team PF is a need.  It is less of a need now that we have Porzingis than it would have been but it is still a need.  A reliable vet wing would be nice too.  But I am the least worried about the combo guard rotation.

Another aspect of this was, White could be moved to the starting lineup and we still had a 6MOY on the bench.  Thus, Tatum was essentially the 3rd big.

That flexibility is gone this year.  If we start Brogdon and White, our only proven backup guard is Pritchard, which is problematic.

[Vermont Green]

We got more leveraged. More reliant on guys with injury issues. That's at least half of our core rotation. If we have our top 7, we should be in a place to close. If we lose one, we are in trouble. If we lose two, we are done.

I've come around on Brissett. I think he can be a real player and a really quality fit for us as a 9th or 10th man. But there's a difference between 15-20 minutes a game in the regular season and having to play starter minutes in the playoffs if one guy (Porzingis or Rob or Horford) gets hurt. Same with Pritchard. I'm thrilled with him having 15-20 minutes a game in the regular season and spot minutes in the playoffs. I'm terrified of relying on him.

I think this is more perception than reality.  We are not more reliant on Horford and RWill, we are less.  We have Porzingis.  When RWill was hurt last season, it was Grant who got minutes.  This season, we have Porzingis.  I don't see how that is being more reliant on Horford and RWill.

With Smart gone, we do have less redundancy regarding Brogdon and White, that is true, but I am fine with it if Pritchard needs to play more.  That is simply a trade off.  We are trading off depth at combo guard (Smart) so that we have more depth at PF and C with Porzingis.  It is about the same worst case and in terms of roster balance vs. injury risk, I think things are better balanced this season.  We have more redundancy at the positions that have the most risk.

And let's see what we can do to add a second team PF to replace Grant.  If we are able to do that, we could end up better off.

Porzingis and Brogdon fall into the injury prone category.  KP missed 19 games last year -- roughly a quarter of the season -- and that was his most games played since 2017!

2018:  48 games played
2019: 0 games played
2020: 57 games played
2021:  43 games played
2022: 51 games played

We'll be fortunate if KP and Timelord can play 82 games combined.  Horford is an ironman by comparison.

Same thing with Brogdon:

2018:  48 games played
2019: 64 games played
2020: 54 games played
2021:  56 games played
2022: 36 games played

Well my point is that Porzingis provides redundancy when Horford or RWill is out.  That situation is better.  Not worse.  With Porzingis here, we are less reliant on Horford and RWill.  Just the opposite is the case with Brogdon.  With Smart gone, we have less redundancy for Brogdon (our 6th man). 

So in one critical area (PF/C) we are better off, but in the combo guard position, we are worse off.  I feel the net of this trade off is that we are slightly better off.  We were highly vulnerable last season with Horford and RWill.  So much so that we had to move away from the 2-big line up that had been historically good the season before.  But we had excess at the combo guard position so much so that we had a decent player (Pritchard) who there were no minutes for.

Now things are better balanced.  The risk to me is more evenly distributed.  We can get back to the 2-big line up as the core line up.  Pritchard is back in the mix as he should be.

In general, there is always more injury risk with bigs.  So now we have more redundancy where we need it the most.  Sure, Brogdon may get hurt, Smart might too.  But in general, working around an injury to your 6th man combo guard is going to be easier than working around an injury to one of your main bigs.  It is now going to be easier to work around an injury to RWill, for example, with Porzingis on the roster than it would be without Porzingis.

And we are not done with the roster.  The Grant situation was only resolved less than 24 hours ago.  I agree completely that a second team PF is a need.  It is less of a need now that we have Porzingis than it would have been but it is still a need.  A reliable vet wing would be nice too.  But I am the least worried about the combo guard rotation.

Another aspect of this was, White could be moved to the starting lineup and we still had a 6MOY on the bench.  Thus, Tatum was essentially the 3rd big.

That flexibility is gone this year.  If we start Brogdon and White, our only proven backup guard is Pritchard, which is problematic.

More problematic than having to start Grant Williams in 23 games because RWill was hurt?  You are focusing on the combo guard depth which to me is far less impactful than the big depth.    We have better big depth this season with Porzingis than we did last season.  We have less combo guard depth this season.  I don't see that as worse off overall.

And if we can sign or trade for a bench PF that can give us 8 pts and 4 rebs in 18 minutes, about what I expect Grant would have done this season, we are going to be that much better off.  I don't think we even need another combo guard.  If we suffer a major injury to White or Brogdon, that is something we would need to address, but Pritchard would be fine for any short term fill ins.  No team in the NBA is so deep that they can replace any injured player at any position.  That seems to be the standard you are trying to hold the Celtics to.

[Silas]

We got more leveraged. More reliant on guys with injury issues. That's at least half of our core rotation. If we have our top 7, we should be in a place to close. If we lose one, we are in trouble. If we lose two, we are done.

I've come around on Brissett. I think he can be a real player and a really quality fit for us as a 9th or 10th man. But there's a difference between 15-20 minutes a game in the regular season and having to play starter minutes in the playoffs if one guy (Porzingis or Rob or Horford) gets hurt. Same with Pritchard. I'm thrilled with him having 15-20 minutes a game in the regular season and spot minutes in the playoffs. I'm terrified of relying on him.

I think this is more perception than reality.  We are not more reliant on Horford and RWill, we are less.  We have Porzingis.  When RWill was hurt last season, it was Grant who got minutes.  This season, we have Porzingis.  I don't see how that is being more reliant on Horford and RWill.

With Smart gone, we do have less redundancy regarding Brogdon and White, that is true, but I am fine with it if Pritchard needs to play more.  That is simply a trade off.  We are trading off depth at combo guard (Smart) so that we have more depth at PF and C with Porzingis.  It is about the same worst case and in terms of roster balance vs. injury risk, I think things are better balanced this season.  We have more redundancy at the positions that have the most risk.

And let's see what we can do to add a second team PF to replace Grant.  If we are able to do that, we could end up better off.

Porzingis and Brogdon fall into the injury prone category.  KP missed 19 games last year -- roughly a quarter of the season -- and that was his most games played since 2017!

2018:  48 games played
2019: 0 games played
2020: 57 games played
2021:  43 games played
2022: 51 games played

We'll be fortunate if KP and Timelord can play 82 games combined.  Horford is an ironman by comparison.

Same thing with Brogdon:

2018:  48 games played
2019: 64 games played
2020: 54 games played
2021:  56 games played
2022: 36 games played

Basketball Reference shows 67 games played for the 22/23 season.  But you make a good point.  It's pretty much all about injuries.

[kraidstar]

I would say the teams upside is higher, but the floor may have gotten lower. Basically a bigger risk profile. If it all works and they stay healthy they could be awesome, but if they don't gel or injuries hit it could get somewhat ugly.

Succinctly stated. TP