The morning after...

[cman88]

most rational course forward is

a. demote or fire mazzulla, hire someone like Nurse or coach bud.
b. sign Brown to his deal

if this doesnt work out another year, then you can start looking at trading brown/smart etc. but it makes no sense to trade brown low (on an expiring contract) or sticking with Joe when you saw the team play alot better under Udoka.

brown would have alot more value on a long term deal averaging 27ppg, and who knows maybe a change in coach will get the roster on track.

[Roy H.]

I don't know how to describe how I feel.

I feel like I was proven "right", both about Joe's incompetence and Brad's failure to add a legitimate big man.  It's the least satisfying "I told you so" in history.

At the same time, I'm struggling with the realization that there's something fundamentally flawed with this team.  They quit.  This was Kyrie vs. the Bucks, except team wide.  And, the team's best players lack something.  The entire team played beneath themselves.  They choked, they were lazy, they were stupid and they quit.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

we do not need quitters

get them out.

sure hold brown and smart only if we have to to get the package we want then trade them

this team has been mentally weak and soft for years. i am not sure how much more evidence people need to see.

it is the roster and the coaching.

[Birdman]

Had an easy road to finals after Milwaukee got put out but struggle against Atlanta & Philadelphia then going get swept by an 8th seed

[Neurotic Guy]

I’m somewhere between depressed and acceptance.  This has felt inevitable for a while.  The fact that LAL is down 3-0 is making it a little easier to bear.

It’s interesting that Ime gets very little blame here (or seems that way).  We don’t know exactly what happened but we know that he behaved in a way that was unacceptable to ownership/management.  Owners and Brad seem to get more grief for their decision to fire suspend/fire him than Ime gets for doing something fireable.  I completely get the criticism for a bad call on who to hire, but how about the idea that the coach who brought the team to the brink of a championship let the team and the fans down?

I’ve seen the influence of leadership, good and bad, in many contexts and I think that this team, talented as it is, can be a different team mentally with the right person at the helm.  So - fire Joe and hire the right person - great first step.  Then use your assets to address needs - primarily a big.

[RLewis35]

There is no reason this series shouldn’t still go 6 if our stars have any pride.  Yes, Joe needs to go regardless of result - even a miraculous comeback to force a game 7.  He’s our Grady little.  At best.


But this team shouldn’t need coaching to bear down, show some Celtic f’n pride and force Miami to come back to Boston.  And then deliver one final performance of the year at home or fans can be proud of.  I have no allusions of a 2004 Red Sox type comeback even though it wouldn’t be shocking for Miami’s undrafted superstars to go just as cold over the next few games as they have been hot.  I don’t think playoff Jimmy could possibly lose 4 in a row this close to the finals / even if we somehow force a game 7.  But hard not to get cocky after last night so if our guys show some respect and punch the heat in the mouth, I could see this going 6 or 7 (in a loss).

If our stars don’t show some pride….and we do lose in 4 (or even 5 - if you win 4, you better win at home), then it’s time to make dramatic roster changes.  Jaylen and smart both too sloppy and poor mental decisions at times to be 2 of the 3 best players on the team.  Honestly, I don’t think Jaylen is going to ever clean up his sloppiness at this point, and he’s worth a lot at the moment.  I’d go for a real shake up and trade him and try to get a real piece to build around Tatum and whoever else is left. 

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

There is no reason this series shouldn’t still go 6 if our stars have any pride.  Yes, Joe needs to go regardless of result - even a miraculous comeback to force a game 7.  He’s our Grady little.  At best.


But this team shouldn’t need coaching to bear down, show some Celtic f’n pride and force Miami to come back to Boston.  And then deliver one final performance of the year at home or fans can be proud of.  I have no allusions of a 2004 Red Sox type comeback even though it wouldn’t be shocking for Miami’s undrafted superstars to go just as cold over the next few games as they have been hot.  I don’t think playoff Jimmy could possibly lose 4 in a row this close to the finals / even if we somehow force a game 7.  But hard not to get cocky after last night so if our guys show some respect and punch the heat in the mouth, I could see this going 6 or 7 (in a loss).

If our stars don’t show some pride….and we do lose in 4 (or even 5 - if you win 4, you better win at home), then it’s time to make dramatic roster changes.  Jaylen and smart both too sloppy and poor mental decisions at times to be 2 of the 3 best players on the team.  Honestly, I don’t think Jaylen is going to ever clean up his sloppiness at this point, and he’s worth a lot at the moment.  I’d go for a real shake up and trade him and try to get a real piece to build around Tatum and whoever else is left.

lol  this team has quit and has zero pride. it is over,

[Roy H.]

I’m somewhere between depressed and acceptance.  This has felt inevitable for a while.  The fact that LAL is down 3-0 is making it a little easier to bear.

It’s interesting that Ime gets very little blame here (or seems that way).  We don’t know exactly what happened but we know that he behaved in a way that was unacceptable to ownership/management.  Owners and Brad seem to get more grief for their decision to fire suspend/fire him than Ime gets for doing something fireable.  I completely get the criticism for a bad call on who to hire, but how about the idea that the coach who brought the team to the brink of a championship let the team and the fans down?

To me, it comes down to what Ime did.  Obviously, the Celtics thought it was fireable.  The Rockets thought that it was forgivable, and they immediately made him the face of their franchise.

It's funny to me, comparing Ime's consequences to others I know.  One of my friends happens to be the Attorney General of Maine.  He's a smart, caring compassionate man.  He's a Democrat, so I don't love all of his priorities, but he is a fundamentally honest and good person.  And yet...  He's in a relationship with a subordinate.  A subordinate that he directly supervised.  A subordinate who is married, and who has children.    (All of this is public knowledge.)

He still has his job.  The top legal official in our state did something similar to Ime, and he's still in charge.  And honestly, based upon who he is as a person and his job performance, I think that's a good decision.  He made a terrible judgment, but his flaws can be forgiven and he can still perform his job duties.

I wonder -- without a sustained hostile work environment, quid pro quo, or non-consensual conduct -- whether Ime could have, and should have, stayed on.  My guess is that Wyc wanted to make a strong statement differentiating himself from franchises like the Suns and Mavericks, which had some workplace issues.  In imposing the consequences that he did, I think Wyc hurt the team.  I have no idea if that decision was the right one.

[liam]

Miami trusted and empowered their role players while we did not. I've been grousing about it all year and into the playoffs. We have all these guys on the bench that would've given us different looks but we never used them.

[Roy H.]

Miami trusted and empowered their role players while we did not. I've been grousing about it all year and into the playoffs. We have all these guys on the bench that would've given us different looks but we never used them.

Yeah, that's the one major fault I had with Ime last season, and Joe completely doubled down on it.

If Spoelstra coached this team, I think we'd be getting the best out of Hauser, Grant, and Muscula.  Hell, Cody Zeller was one of the guys I advocated for, and he's getting 10 mpg in the playoffs and he's busting his ass for the team willing to give him a chance.

[Kernewek]

I wonder -- without a sustained hostile work environment, quid pro quo, or non-consensual conduct -- whether Ime could have, and should have, stayed on. 

I might be misremembering, but wasn't the whole issue that the relationship was discovered in the summer and took 'several months' to uncover because Udoka was making 'unwanted comments' towards her in the workplace?

Yes, seems right:
https://theathletic.com/3617945/2022/09/22/celtics-ime-udoka-discipline/

[liam]

Miami trusted and empowered their role players while we did not. I've been grousing about it all year and into the playoffs. We have all these guys on the bench that would've given us different looks but we never used them.

Yeah, that's the one major fault I had with Ime last season, and Joe completely doubled down on it.

If Spoelstra coached this team, I think we'd be getting the best out of Hauser, Grant, and Muscula.  Hell, Cody Zeller was one of the guys I advocated for, and he's getting 10 mpg in the playoffs and he's busting his ass for the team willing to give him a chance.

Roll players win championships. That's what happened in 08. Leon Powe won a game by himself and if he was on this team he wouldn't play. Hauser was really good this year. Pritchard was just shut down. Blake was our best player at taking charges. Kornet is 7'2" etc etc etc...

[Roy H.]

I wonder -- without a sustained hostile work environment, quid pro quo, or non-consensual conduct -- whether Ime could have, and should have, stayed on. 

I might be misremembering, but wasn't the whole issue that the relationship was discovered in the summer and took 'several months' to uncover because Udoka was making 'unwanted comments' towards her in the workplace?

Yes, seems right:
https://theathletic.com/3617945/2022/09/22/celtics-ime-udoka-discipline/

Yeah, but we have no idea what the comments were.  If they were "take me back or I'm going to blow up your career", that's one thing.  If she regretted stepping out on her husband but Ime said "I miss you and want you back", that's different (assuming it wasn't persistent and harassing).

I think what the Celtics ended up hanging their hat on was that Ime made some lewd comments while he was in a supervisory position, before the relationship.  We don't know what those comments were, or whether they were unwelcome, etc. 

We just really have no idea.  It's why almost every organization in the United States (besides the Maine Attorney General's Office, haha) has these rules in place.  But, on a continuum, my guess is that Ime's conduct was more in the "poor judgment" category, rather than the "behaves like Donald Trump" type of boorishness.  But, I'm guessing.

[angryguy77]

Annoyed and mad at the reality of our season being done.

I'm mostly just relieved in a way because this team hasn't been enjoyable to watch for 75% of the season.

Oh well, put this season behind me and I'll look forward to watching my Vikings. I'm sure they won't let me down........

[Celtic Fan Forever]

I’m feeling a lot of emotions today. I can’t remember the last time I was this frustrated with a team (this is way worse than the 2019 Kyrie team’s loss in 5 to the Bucks).

I’m also feeling like I want this to end, I don’t really know how much more of the roller coaster I can take from this team. Joe is horrible but these issues were persistent last year too, makes me think maybe we really can’t win with the Jays.

I can’t believe I’m typing this but I want them to get swept tomorrow. If we win game 4 I’m going to start feeling some irrational hope, and I really don’t want to put myself through that. If we get swept by an 8 seed Joe is gone and hopefully some major changes happen. Just really really disappointing. When Milwaukee got eliminated this was our best chance at a title. Credit to the Heat though.