We Can't Keep Smart & Brown Together Next Season

[keevsnick]

Counter point:

The c's ABSOLUTELY can, they arguably should, and probably will.

To be honest here I'm a little dismayed, especially as it related to Brown/Smart. Those guy have, in general, been a VERY good to great playoff performers for the C's.

So now Brown has a bad game, granted it was VERY bad, but 1 bad game and its "he needs to." Like, no? No he does not. And no he won't. He has 1 year left on his deal, you arent getting much for an expiring. So whats going to happen is they will re-sign him, at which point he can't be traded for a year. So he'll resign, they will play out next year, and see where things are at then.

[cman88]

Counter point:

The c's ABSOLUTELY can, they arguably should, and probably will.

Most likely thing the C's should do is actually SPEND their TPE and build up the bench even more. I mean we got muscala....cmon. adding Gallo should help

and either fire mazzulla or load up on experienced coaches around him on the staff.

[RodyTur10]

I'd sell high on Brown.

• He's a terrific open-court player, but he's out of control when taking decisions with the ball in his hands in the half court. He's nothing special as a shooter either in order to thrive off of Tatum. Fwiw, the advanced stats are low on his game as well.
• He's about to become massively overpaid. I don't think he deserves the supermax.

The general idea would be Brown for Mikal Bridges+.

For instance

• Brown for Bridges + DFS

• Brown for Bridges + Claxton

[/b]

• Brown + filler for Bridges + Dinwiddie
• 3-way with the Hawks: Brown + Pritchard to Atlanta, Trae to Brooklyn, Bridges + DFS + Okongwu to Boston (personally, this would be my favorite package)

Feel free to include pick(s) if you deem it necessary.

Brown for Bridges + Claxton would be a steal. The Nets don't really have another big (unless they played Simmons at center) so it's very doubtful they'd do it.

And Brown is not even close to a guy like Harden who was a legit MVP caliber player. Brown isn't really improving anymore, he's just taking more shots and play less defense.

[keevsnick]

I'd sell high on Brown.

• He's a terrific open-court player, but he's out of control when taking decisions with the ball in his hands in the half court. He's nothing special as a shooter either in order to thrive off of Tatum. Fwiw, the advanced stats are low on his game as well.
• He's about to become massively overpaid. I don't think he deserves the supermax.

The general idea would be Brown for Mikal Bridges+.

For instance

• Brown for Bridges + DFS

• Brown for Bridges + Claxton

[/b]

• Brown + filler for Bridges + Dinwiddie
• 3-way with the Hawks: Brown + Pritchard to Atlanta, Trae to Brooklyn, Bridges + DFS + Okongwu to Boston (personally, this would be my favorite package)

Feel free to include pick(s) if you deem it necessary.

Brown for Bridges + Claxton would be a steal. The Nets don't really have another big (unless they played Simmons at center) so it's very doubtful they'd do it.

To be clear, trading Jaylen this offseason IS NOT SELLING HIGH ON HIM.

He has one year left on his deal, this limits the value you are getting back. Because of his contract its very unlikely he extends prior to being a free agent with any team he's traded to.

[Goldstar88]

Smart and Brown are not high IQ players. Smart has to go since he’s less talented and just makes bad decisions with the ball too often. Can’t have that with your starting PG. As soon as JB signs his extension, send Marcus packing.

Is Wyc going to even be willing to pay that much money to Brown after how awful he's been this playoffs, particularly lately?

But I agree something has to give. Brown is not a good enough or complete enough player as your second star to justify a combo guard like Smart. Need another playmaker to help Tatum out.

Either try to find a star swap for JB, or you have to upgrade in playmaking at the point guard position. Maybe we can turn two of Smart, White, and Brogdon into an actual quality starting point guard who can playmake and control the game. Smart just can't do it consistently enough.

They have to pay him. Basically averaged 27/7 during the season and made 2nd team all NBA. If Boston doesn’t, someone else 100% will. I’d be fine with White starting, Brogdon coming in off the bench at the PG position. Pritchard can be the 3rd stringer or find another backup. Would like to trade Smart in a package for Wendell Carter Jr. They need a veteran to go with their young core and the C’s need a player that can replace Horford in a year or two. Plus, the Magic have a ton of bigs.

[Mahk E Mahk]

I'd sell high on Brown.

• He's a terrific open-court player, but he's out of control when taking decisions with the ball in his hands in the half court. He's nothing special as a shooter either in order to thrive off of Tatum. Fwiw, the advanced stats are low on his game as well.
• He's about to become massively overpaid. I don't think he deserves the supermax.

The general idea would be Brown for Mikal Bridges+.

For instance

• Brown for Bridges + DFS
• Brown for Bridges + Claxton
• Brown + filler for Bridges + Dinwiddie
• 3-way with the Hawks: Brown + Pritchard to Atlanta, Trae to Brooklyn, Bridges + DFS + Okongwu to Boston (personally, this would be my favorite package)

Feel free to include pick(s) if you deem it necessary.

100% this. the playoffs are a different animal and JB’s reckless game isn’t built for it. when every possession matters and teams are purposefully slowing the action and forcing you to run disciplined half court sets, JB is not the guy.

yes, sell high and fleece a starry-eyed GM before the league gets wise to the fact that JB’s game doesn’t translate to the playoffs.[/list]

[blink]

Counter point:

The c's ABSOLUTELY can, they arguably should, and probably will.

To be honest here I'm a little dismayed, especially as it related to Brown/Smart. Those guy have, in general, been a VERY good to great playoff performers for the C's.

So now Brown has a bad game, granted it was VERY bad, but 1 bad game and its "he needs to." Like, no? No he does not. And no he won't. He has 1 year left on his deal, you arent getting much for an expiring. So whats going to happen is they will re-sign him, at which point he can't be traded for a year. So he'll resign, they will play out next year, and see where things are at then.

Tp!  Thanks for a bit of more reasonable counterpoint to the angry pitch fork mob. 

I mean you can’t have it both ways, you can’t simultaneously say that brown is a crap player, he doesn’t impact winning…at the same time you are saying it is all JB’s fault when we lose.

JB has had a very good playoffs so far.  How quickly we forget that he was key in shutting down Harden for two games where we get back in that series.  How soon you forget the 24 ppg / 54% fg shooting +40% 3fg % he was averaging in the playoffs before game 2.

JB isn’t getting traded for the above reasons.  We can’t get the return needed.  He is almost sure to be offered the max.  Celtics aren’t going to over react.  They have been playing the long game with JT and JB for years.  A loss to the heat in the ECF isn’t going to change that.

Smart saved us in the Philly series too.   

[angryguy77]

Its tempting to ask for a legit big who can play both ends. One that can compliment tatum in exchange for brown.


That said, I might not do any good if the coaching doesn't get better.

[Neurotic Guy]

Counter point:

The c's ABSOLUTELY can, they arguably should, and probably will.

To be honest here I'm a little dismayed, especially as it related to Brown/Smart. Those guy have, in general, been a VERY good to great playoff performers for the C's.

So now Brown has a bad game, granted it was VERY bad, but 1 bad game and its "he needs to." Like, no? No he does not. And no he won't. He has 1 year left on his deal, you arent getting much for an expiring. So whats going to happen is they will re-sign him, at which point he can't be traded for a year. So he'll resign, they will play out next year, and see where things are at then.

It doesn’t need to be a full game. When he has a bad half people are screaming hate on JB.   Great player - he always bounces back.   26.6 ppg.  And often efficiently.  People are looney to not want him here. He and JT are one of, if not the, best tandem in the NBA. And they’re still well on the right side of 30. 

Get a better coach.

[Who]

Smart and Brown are not high IQ players. Smart has to go since he’s less talented and just makes bad decisions with the ball too often. Can’t have that with your starting PG. As soon as JB signs his extension, send Marcus packing.

Is Wyc going to even be willing to pay that much money to Brown after how awful he's been this playoffs, particularly lately?

But I agree something has to give. Brown is not a good enough or complete enough player as your second star to justify a combo guard like Smart. Need another playmaker to help Tatum out.

Either try to find a star swap for JB, or you have to upgrade in playmaking at the point guard position. Maybe we can turn two of Smart, White, and Brogdon into an actual quality starting point guard who can playmake and control the game. Smart just can't do it consistently enough.

The problem is if we give JB the supermax, he can’t be traded for a year. If we try to trade him in the offseason, he’ll have really low value as he’s an UFA when his current deal expires at the end of next season. Brad will need to be creative on this one. I think give him the supermax and see how it goes next year with a new coach?

then trade smart and get an upgrade at PG

Any ideas on what PGs out there could be got that do bring more ball-handling and playmaking to the team?

A change in identity from the 3 combo guards to a true PG who can organize the offense better, distribute the ball better and create better offensive cohesion.

Keep the Tatum & Jaylen duo. Try to improve the offense at PG.

[Who]

here come the over-reactions.....

trade brown for pennies on the dollar because we didn't make the finals!! make our team worse because brown was bad in a series!! because tatum and a bunch of lesser players is much better...... thats ensuring you never will make the finals again...

Brown has improved every year and if you have a player like that who is young you keep them. and let them grow. he's still not yet in his prime. does he have warts? yes. but trading him because you lost a playoff series is just massive overreaction.

don't be the Oklahoma city thunder who dismantled westbrook/KD/Harden.

Trading Brown for pennies on the dollar would obviously be a mistake, but I don't think anybody is recommending that. If we're being honest, this team pretty much has a floor of 2nd round playoff team for the next decade with Tatum and anybody you surround him with. We are lucky to be in the situation we are in.

I agree that we shouldn't just trade Brown - he is a deserving All-NBA player who has improved every year he has been in this league - but it's also possible that someone else might better complement Tatum. I also think we have him for at least one more season anyway. He would be foolish to decline a supermax extension and it would be difficult to trade him this offseason unless he chooses his destination (but then you are limited in what assets you get back).

I don't know about that.

This is one of the most talented supporting casts in the league. We have three phenomenal (role player / supporting cast wise) guards in Smart, D White and Brogdon. We have two excellent bigs in Horford and Rob Williams. We have high quality deep bench pieces in Hauser, Pritchard, Muscala. This is about as talented a team as we can hope to have around Tatum & Jaylen.

I was thinking the other day that if you removed Tatum and Jaylen from the squad and replaced them with average forwards (decent starter level players), this team would still be a slightly above .500 basketball. A 44-46 win type team.

This is a really talented basketball team.

So back to the original point, if they are only this good with a phenomenal spporting cast around Tatum & Jaylen, how good would they be with an average supporting cast? How good would they be with a below average supporting cast?

An average supporting cast might get them to the 2nd round fairly consistently. I don't think a below average supporting cast does. And this is with both Tatum & Jaylen.

Take away Jaylen. Just Tatum. Can they realistically expect Tatum to drag a team to the 2nd round year in year out? Regardless of the supporting cast, or with little regard to who is in the supporting cast? Tatum hasn't shown that. Only guys like LeBron have shown that capacity. Even great players like Dirk and Kobe struggled to do that. Both MVP talents. LeBron a possible (likely) top 5 All-Time player did that. Can we really expect Tatum to? I don't think so.

We need to give him a strong supporting cast (if no Jaylen) to realistically expect regular appearances in the 2nd round (or beyond).

[Mahk E Mahk]

Smart and Brown are not high IQ players. Smart has to go since he’s less talented and just makes bad decisions with the ball too often. Can’t have that with your starting PG. As soon as JB signs his extension, send Marcus packing.

Is Wyc going to even be willing to pay that much money to Brown after how awful he's been this playoffs, particularly lately?

But I agree something has to give. Brown is not a good enough or complete enough player as your second star to justify a combo guard like Smart. Need another playmaker to help Tatum out.

Either try to find a star swap for JB, or you have to upgrade in playmaking at the point guard position. Maybe we can turn two of Smart, White, and Brogdon into an actual quality starting point guard who can playmake and control the game. Smart just can't do it consistently enough.

The problem is if we give JB the supermax, he can’t be traded for a year. If we try to trade him in the offseason, he’ll have really low value as he’s an UFA when his current deal expires at the end of next season. Brad will need to be creative on this one. I think give him the supermax and see how it goes next year with a new coach?

then trade smart and get an upgrade at PG

Any ideas on what PGs out there could be got that do bring more ball-handling and playmaking to the team?

A change in identity from the 3 combo guards to a true PG who can organize the offense better, distribute the ball better and create better offensive cohesion.

Keep the Tatum & Jaylen duo. Try to improve the offense at PG.

i could get behind the idea of keeping JB, if brad can find a dominant PG who can run the offense, penetrate, distribute, and manage the J’s.

one caveat would be the new PG has to be a solid defender, or the J’s have to substantially improve the consistency of their defensive efforts. love him or hate him, marcus brings a defensive toughness this team sorely needs.

second caveat: we’d need a coach who can build an offensive scheme that maximizes the talents of a true PG, as well as the very different strengths of the J’s. our current “offense” (whatever that is) would need to be abandoned.

[Mahk E Mahk]

i just realized my previous post is asking brad to find a dennis johnson; not an easy task.

for those who remember the incomparable DJ, he had an incredibly high BBIQ, and he ran an offense comprised of three additional HOF players, two of whom demanded the ball. he knew when to push the pace and when to grind in the half court. he was a phenomenal floor general who had the balls and credibility to tell HOF players what to do (even bird). he could hit the open jumper when teams foolishly left him open, and he had the discipline to exploit an offensive mismatch repeatedly when it was the right call, no matter what his big ego teammates were telling him to do. plus, he was a great defensive stopper.

everyone remembers bird’s magical steal vs. the pistons in game 5 of the ‘87 ECF, but only DJ had the presence of mind and BBIQ to cut to the basket. bird, pinned on the baseline and cutoff by bill laimbeer with isaiah coming over to double team, had nowhere to go, and the game clock was expiring. if not for DJ’s immediate cut to the bucket, bird has no options and time expires (DJ’s layup occurred with one second remaining).

bird called DJ the greatest player with whom he ever played, and i believe it. man, i miss DJ; what a remarkable player, teammate, and leader! go find him, brad.

[gouki88]

Smart and Brown are not high IQ players. Smart has to go since he’s less talented and just makes bad decisions with the ball too often. Can’t have that with your starting PG. As soon as JB signs his extension, send Marcus packing.

Is Wyc going to even be willing to pay that much money to Brown after how awful he's been this playoffs, particularly lately?

But I agree something has to give. Brown is not a good enough or complete enough player as your second star to justify a combo guard like Smart. Need another playmaker to help Tatum out.

Either try to find a star swap for JB, or you have to upgrade in playmaking at the point guard position. Maybe we can turn two of Smart, White, and Brogdon into an actual quality starting point guard who can playmake and control the game. Smart just can't do it consistently enough.

The problem is if we give JB the supermax, he can’t be traded for a year. If we try to trade him in the offseason, he’ll have really low value as he’s an UFA when his current deal expires at the end of next season. Brad will need to be creative on this one. I think give him the supermax and see how it goes next year with a new coach?

then trade smart and get an upgrade at PG

Any ideas on what PGs out there could be got that do bring more ball-handling and playmaking to the team?

A change in identity from the 3 combo guards to a true PG who can organize the offense better, distribute the ball better and create better offensive cohesion.

Keep the Tatum & Jaylen duo. Try to improve the offense at PG.

Chris Paul?

[RodyTur10]

White is not much of a leader but as a player he's exactly the kind of point guard (like Johnson) a star like Tatum needs. But if Brown, Tatum and and others are just going to do whatever they like it doesn't really matter what compatable qualities other players possess.

When the Celtics play team basketball a guy like White shines. He's a product of the Spurs culture. I wish we'd play more to that style than the Lakers style of individual stardom. Tatum and Brown would look great in a Lakers uniform.