Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[ozgod]

We got to focus on winning now
We can fire Joe latter

Fire him right after we win the championship. Like the second after...don't even give him the chance to touch that LOB Trophy 

[ozgod]

Something about this thread (that didn't happen with any Fire Doc or Fire Stevens threads), is that it makes me more aware of other coaches around the league.  Like now I notice every game where a team doesn't call a timeout or their best player ISOs for the win/tie at the end of a close game (and it happens around the league a lot, though to be fair I don't know if other teams are doing it with the same frequency).  I commented here on Nurse several pages back (he didn't look like a good coach to me in the PHI/NYK series, only able to win if Embiid or Maxey set a career high), but now I'm looking at Mike Malone and thinking what if that was Joe.

It's not that Denver is tied 3-3 vs Wolves, but how they've looked in their 3 losses.  Losing the first 2 at home and having 2 blow out losses.  And this is all while the Wolves are partially down a head coach (due to Finch's knee injury a lot of coaching duties have been given to Nori). The struggles against the Wolves are now making me think back on the Lakers series.  Despite winning that series 4-1 it was probably closer than it should have been: they lost the 1st half of every game, and they only won 1 4Q.  I was thinking the Lakers made a valiant effort to keep most games close, but maybe it was less Lakers playing well and more Nuggets playing poorly.  Is this all on the players or Mike Malone?  If they get past the Wolves though, all will probably be forgotten/forgiven.


Then the other day on Reddit, on a post about Jason Kidd getting an extension, a Mavs fan said he didn't know how to feel as most of the fan base wanted Kidd gone, a Celtics fan replied that most fan bases don't know anything about coaching (probably a Joe supporter, ha), and then a Bulls fan gave a description that made me think he either hangs out here or we're just like every other fan base with the same coaching complaints:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1clhoxp/haynes_dallas_mavericks_announced_a_contract/l2tv54t/?context=10000

Fanbase coaching discourse is just saying some combination of:

    Adjustments
    Rotations
    Our 9th man should be playing starter minutes
    Why are we going iso in the clutch?
    Why is the opposing team shooting 55% from 3 this half?

(For the record, I wouldn't be happy if the C's hired Kidd as coach, he's never looked like a good coach to me, but I would probably be enthusiastic about a Malone hiring).

Yup and on the Nuggets forum they are whining about how bad Malone is:

Yeah I hear you but honestly I feel like Malone loss this game. He had no answer for them swarming Jokic on the block. Maybe put him in more PnR instead of just trying to post him up and letting him get swarmed every time up the floor? And on the defensive end he has got to stop trying to guard their bigs with KCP. Too many times tonight Im seeing KCP fight for his life in the post against KAT and Naz. I know he wants Gordon on Ant but it’s not going to work if Minnesota is going to be patient and let KAT post up KCP.

https://www.reddit.com/r/denvernuggets/comments/1ctvkue/now_its_personal/

I feel like Malone was terribly out coached in game 6. Game 7 is going to be Denver’s top 6-7 players against Minnesotas, and if Malone doesn’t hold Denver back there isn’t any reason why Denver shouldn’t advance

https://www.reddit.com/r/denvernuggets/comments/1cukrer/comment/l4juuf2/

Malone let the run go without calling a timeout in the first quarter. WHO lets a run like that keep going!!!

https://www.reddit.com/r/denvernuggets/comments/1ctvkue/comment/l4jnoyt/

Why does Malone let Jamal throw up 5-6 straight contested bricks as the game snowballs away from us? Sit him down for a quarter and get it through his head this is not about him

https://www.reddit.com/r/denvernuggets/comments/1ctvkue/comment/l4h1kag/

Malone needs to actually coach. This was heavily discussed last year when Murray would play hero ball and hold the ball for nearly the entire possession. I don’t understand how you can allow someone like Murray to **** around when you have the joker.

https://www.reddit.com/r/denvernuggets/comments/1ctvbc3/comment/l4gs5le/

If you didn't know better you could have sworn they were talking about Joe after any one of our losses (and wins, come to think of it). As Jesus said, prophets (coaches?) are never welcomed in their hometown 

Hero coach Malone is now being blamed for the Nuggets' failure to defend their crown.

(click to enlarge)

[green_bballers13]

People like to complain online. It’s cheaper/easier than therapy.

[Moranis]

I mean they lost game 7 at home when they were up by 20 points in the 2nd half.  Then you see Edwards was 6 of 24 for 16 points and Jokic and Murray combined for 69.  How do you lose that game? Certainly fair to question the coaching.

[Roy H.]

I mean they lost game 7 at home when they were up by 20 points in the 2nd half.  Then you see Edwards was 6 of 24 for 16 points and Jokic and Murray combined for 69.  How do you lose that game? Certainly fair to question the coaching.

Probably, but there's got to be a better complaint than "we shouldn't have played Jokic as much when we were winning".

[Moranis]

I mean they lost game 7 at home when they were up by 20 points in the 2nd half.  Then you see Edwards was 6 of 24 for 16 points and Jokic and Murray combined for 69.  How do you lose that game? Certainly fair to question the coaching.

Probably, but there's got to be a better complaint than "we shouldn't have played Jokic as much when we were winning".

that is fair, but I do think after the timeout, Jokic should have stayed in the bench. They were up 12 still then and it would have been a good time to get him an extra minute.  Also, would have allowed them to play smaller and try and pull Gobert out of the paint.

Even pulling him for the last 11 seconds of the 3rd quarter after he made the 2 free throws would have made sense. Hokic was clearly laboring at points in the 3rd quarter and the lineup they had wasn't working.  Perhaps going small for a few minutes might have been the difference. Even playing Reggie Jackson with Jamal Murray could have been the ticket.  The Nuggets needed to do something in the 3rd quarter and they didn't and they blew a massive lead at home to be eliminated.

[keevsnick]

I mean they lost game 7 at home when they were up by 20 points in the 2nd half.  Then you see Edwards was 6 of 24 for 16 points and Jokic and Murray combined for 69.  How do you lose that game? Certainly fair to question the coaching.

Probably, but there's got to be a better complaint than "we shouldn't have played Jokic as much when we were winning".

that is fair, but I do think after the timeout, Jokic should have stayed in the bench. They were up 12 still then and it would have been a good time to get him an extra minute.  Also, would have allowed them to play smaller and try and pull Gobert out of the paint.

Even pulling him for the last 11 seconds of the 3rd quarter after he made the 2 free throws would have made sense. Hokic was clearly laboring at points in the 3rd quarter and the lineup they had wasn't working.  Perhaps going small for a few minutes might have been the difference. Even playing Reggie Jackson with Jamal Murray could have been the ticket.  The Nuggets needed to do something in the 3rd quarter and they didn't and they blew a massive lead at home to be eliminated.

Denver was put in a rough spot. they had a big lead early in the 3rd, but you aren't going to rest Jokic at that point. Then they started losing the lead and you can feel everything shifting and by the time he would have gotten a rest you can feel the whole thing on tilt.

That's how you know a team has been outmatched. When you get to the point that you can't take a guy off the floor, but you can't leave him on either.   Denver ran out of moves.

[Vermont Green]

The point about Mike Malone is not that he played Jokic or didn't play Jokic.  The point is that he is the same coach who was revered after winning a championship, with so many, "if we only had Malone and not Mazzulla", and so on.  Now DEN has a collapse, blowing a lead in a game 7 at home, after getting blown out in a potential close out game 6, and he doesn't look any better than Mazzulla.

This could mean that both Mazzulla and Malone are bad coaches, it could mean they are both good coaches (title caliber coaches), or it may not mean that much at all about either coach.  The lesson I believe is that you shouldn't be so quick to deem a coach a bad coach or a good coach.

[SparzWizard]

The point about Mike Malone is not that he played Jokic or didn't play Jokic.  The point is that he is the same coach who was revered after winning a championship, with so many, "if we only had Malone and not Mazzulla", and so on.  Now DEN has a collapse, blowing a lead in a game 7 at home, after getting blown out in a potential close out game 6, and he doesn't look any better than Mazzulla.

This could mean that both Mazzulla and Malone are bad coaches, it could mean they are both good coaches (title caliber coaches), or it may not mean that much at all about either coach.  The lesson I believe is that you should be so quick to deem a coach a bad coach or a good coach.

It's also Denver's front office fault for not retaining Bruce Brown. They lost him and they lost the series.

But yeah Malone should be questioned regarding his adjustments last night and this series. Losing 3 home games is a disaster

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

We got to focus on winning now
We can fire Joe latter

Fire him right after we win the championship. Like the second after...don't even give him the chance to touch that LOB Trophy 

[tenn_smoothie]

The point about Mike Malone is not that he played Jokic or didn't play Jokic.  The point is that he is the same coach who was revered after winning a championship, with so many, "if we only had Malone and not Mazzulla", and so on.  Now DEN has a collapse, blowing a lead in a game 7 at home, after getting blown out in a potential close out game 6, and he doesn't look any better than Mazzulla.

This could mean that both Mazzulla and Malone are bad coaches, it could mean they are both good coaches (title caliber coaches), or it may not mean that much at all about either coach.  The lesson I believe is that you shouldn't be so quick to deem a coach a bad coach or a good coach.

Most of the critics here of Joe (me included) have specific issues that we fear will lead to playoff failure.
It's not about the regular season record, comparing this loss to that win, another coach's performance, another team's performance, etc.

I don't hate Joe as a person, I do hate him as the coach of the Boston Celtics because of his 3-point heavy, iso-tendency offense, his refusal to use important bench players, his lack of defensive adjustment when the original scheme is not working and his overall stubborn attitude. This is a multi-title roster with the right head coach. The loss of opportunity like that is the worst part of our current circumstance.

[Goldstar88]

The point about Mike Malone is not that he played Jokic or didn't play Jokic.  The point is that he is the same coach who was revered after winning a championship, with so many, "if we only had Malone and not Mazzulla", and so on.  Now DEN has a collapse, blowing a lead in a game 7 at home, after getting blown out in a potential close out game 6, and he doesn't look any better than Mazzulla.

This could mean that both Mazzulla and Malone are bad coaches, it could mean they are both good coaches (title caliber coaches), or it may not mean that much at all about either coach.  The lesson I believe is that you shouldn't be so quick to deem a coach a bad coach or a good coach.

Most of the critics here of Joe (me included) have specific issues that we fear will lead to playoff failure.
It's not about the regular season record, comparing this loss to that win, another coach's performance, another team's performance, etc.

I don't hate Joe as a person, I do hate him as the coach of the Boston Celtics because of his 3-point heavy, iso-tendency offense, his refusal to use important bench players, his lack of defensive adjustment when the original scheme is not working and his overall stubborn attitude. This is a multi-title roster with the right head coach. The loss of opportunity like that is the worst part of our current circumstance.

Have you watched any of the postseason? Celtics are down to 38 shot attempts from 3pt per game. They also have been going 8-9 players deep in the playoffs which is pretty standard for teams. Seems to be working well so far as the Celtics are 8-2 this postseason.

[SHAQATTACK]

We got to focus on winning now
We can fire Joe latter

Fire him right after we win the championship. Like the second after...don't even give him the chance to touch that LOB Trophy 

His pink slip is laying on Brads desk.

[Roy H.]

We got to focus on winning now
We can fire Joe latter

Fire him right after we win the championship. Like the second after...don't even give him the chance to touch that LOB Trophy 

Fire him at halftime of the close out game so he can't choke it away.   

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

We got to focus on winning now
We can fire Joe latter

Fire him right after we win the championship. Like the second after...don't even give him the chance to touch that LOB Trophy 

His pink slip is laying on Brads desk.