Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[green_bballers13]

There's really no one to blame more than Ime.

Joe is 34 and wasn't ready to coach a contender. I'm not sure how many 34 year olds would have rejected the opportunity to become the interim coach of a contender.

Brad and the ownership team didn't want to bring in another distraction such as Vogel or Kenny Atkinson. The Ime news came out pretty late in the offseason (late September). Bringing in one of those guys would not have been seamless at that time.

Would Vogel or Atkinson be a better coach this year? Most likely. I just don't think it was an easy decision.

 I also don't think we know much about their decision making process. The Celtics were pretty quiet about the whole Ime situation.

I think it's crazy that the Celtics knew about the Ime situation in July and didn't make any contingency plans at all until promoting Joe on the eve of training camp.  That's just poor management.  Not only did they drag their heels on the decision, but they also failed to replace Will Hardy with a competent assistant.  We lost our two best coaches, and essentially didn't replace them.

From our perspective- yes, this makes sense.

We're still dealing with incomplete information, however. I'm not sure if we will ever find out exactly how the Celtics made the decision to move on from Ime to Joe.

[GreenBoomer]

They may still win in spite of Joe's shortcomings. I hope they do. The talent is there. But, if they lose, Brad and Joe gotta go.

[tenn_smoothie]

There's really no one to blame more than Ime.

Joe is 34 and wasn't ready to coach a contender. I'm not sure how many 34 year olds would have rejected the opportunity to become the interim coach of a contender.

Brad and the ownership team didn't want to bring in another distraction such as Vogel or Kenny Atkinson. The Ime news came out pretty late in the offseason (late September). Bringing in one of those guys would not have been seamless at that time.

Would Vogel or Atkinson be a better coach this year? Most likely. I just don't think it was an easy decision.

 I also don't think we know much about their decision making process. The Celtics were pretty quiet about the whole Ime situation.

Ime had his own issue, but the Celtics controlling the P/R was very questionable. They knew of it since July but waited until Sept to drop the news.

Brad should've brought in Atkinson, Snyder, or Vogel, no questions asked. Or even stalled and not given Mazzulla the head-coaching title yet cuz now we got Nick Nurse available.

Brad was as incompetent dealing with the head coaching position as Joe has been coaching the team.
Get some pros in here, the college boys aren't up to this.
But ownership seems about as weak making tough decisions as their coach & GM.

[SparzWizard]

They may still win in spite of Joe's shortcomings. I hope they do. The talent is there. But, if they lose, Brad and Joe gotta go.

I swear that's the only thing that will shut me up about Joe for the next few months- the C's need to win banner 18 this June lol.

But agreed on the bolded.

[ozgod]

There's really no one to blame more than Ime.

Joe is 34 and wasn't ready to coach a contender. I'm not sure how many 34 year olds would have rejected the opportunity to become the interim coach of a contender.

Brad and the ownership team didn't want to bring in another distraction such as Vogel or Kenny Atkinson. The Ime news came out pretty late in the offseason (late September). Bringing in one of those guys would not have been seamless at that time.

Would Vogel or Atkinson be a better coach this year? Most likely. I just don't think it was an easy decision.

 I also don't think we know much about their decision making process. The Celtics were pretty quiet about the whole Ime situation.

I think it's crazy that the Celtics knew about the Ime situation in July and didn't make any contingency plans at all until promoting Joe on the eve of training camp.  That's just poor management.  Not only did they drag their heels on the decision, but they also failed to replace Will Hardy with a competent assistant.  We lost our two best coaches, and essentially didn't replace them.

The conclusion I  arrive at is that the succession plan was going to be either Will or Joe. It was always going to be an internal promotion. They wanted someone already in the system. That's why they were willing to let one but not both go. And I have a feeling they were willing to accept that there were going to be growing pains, because both of them were young...as I mentioned before, fans and media will judge Joe on one criteria, winning a championship, because we got to the Finals last season and the expectation is to go one better. Everyone can disagree and probably will on the wisdom of their choice but I think it was intentional.

But I don't think that's the same criteria that Brad and Wyc will judge Joe on. It will be on Joe's performance this season, where the team finished 2nd and is in the misdt of a playoff run, and on his upside. The fact that he's young probably works in his favor when it comes to his upside, as well as the "extenuating factors" (being promoted to the hotseat a week before the start of the season, having to learn on the fly, not having a season to grow into his role like Hardy has with Utah, etc). So all the people hoping he and Brad will be fired will probably be disappointed - Wyc doesn't strike me as someone who fires people as a knee jerk reaction to the results of a game or a season. If anything he is too deliberate when it comes to personnel moves of this nature 

Next season and the one after that is probably the ones where they will make a longer term assessment as to Joe's capacity to improve and grow.

[celticinorlando]

IF Boston loses this series to an absolutely average sixers team it will go down as a massive choke job and joe’s the A1 culprit

I’m curious. Why is the consensus that Boston is way better than Philly? We won 3 more games than them during the regular season and they have the league MVP and a 7 time all star who can get scorching hot and is very crafty and can get to the line. Maxey is also a solid young player. Boston is far deeper than them and therefore should be favored, but would it really be THAT much of an upset to lose?

Can you see this Philly team winning the NBA title? I can't. Boston has owned Philly this year. They play at a slow tempo. Not really a good defensive team. They have little to no bench. It takes massive efforts from two guys to win games in this series. One of those guys has a bad knee and the other guy has been a no show most of the season (other than games 1 and 4). Before this series Harden was getting roasted by the media and the basketball community.

I don't think they are on the same level with Boston. There is nothing Philly does that is concerning. It is all about Boston and them not beating themselves, which is the frustrating part.

So yes, if Philly somehow wins this series, it is a massive choke job on Boston's part. Say what you will but this series at worst should be 3-1 and Boston has yet to play a really good game and gave away the two games they lost. Philly probably has hit its ceiling.

I just don't think they are anything special. They wouldn't beat the Lakers, Warriors, Suns, Nuggets in a series. Would have a tough time with the Heat. They would beat the Knicks. They shouldn't beat the Celtics. So yes, it would be an upset for the sixers to beat Boston with home court. I can't see it any other way as it being that.

[Indocelts]

i got this link below, don't know if i am posting this correctly:

https://985thesportshub.com/listicle/felger-the-celtics-have-a-marcus-smart-problem/

It mostly discusses Smart problem that has never been resolved, i.e. his tendency to shoot much despite his shortcomings and some other stuff.

Most of the issues have been discussed here. Feel free to read.

But, reading it makes me believe more strongly  that Joe is not the right person to be the Celtics head coach.

[Celtics2021]

i got this link below, don't know if i am posting this correctly:

https://985thesportshub.com/listicle/felger-the-celtics-have-a-marcus-smart-problem/

It mostly discusses Smart problem that has never been resolved, i.e. his tendency to shoot much despite his shortcomings and some other stuff.

Most of the issues have been discussed here. Feel free to read.

But, reading it makes me believe more strongly  that Joe is not the right person to be the Celtics head coach.

Smart took his third fewest shots per possession in his career this year, and his fewest since Kyrie left.  He also had his career-high in assists per possession.  Joe rightly comes in for some criticism at times, but he also wrongly comes in for criticism at others, and this is a very good example of the latter.

[Roy H.]

i got this link below, don't know if i am posting this correctly:

https://985thesportshub.com/listicle/felger-the-celtics-have-a-marcus-smart-problem/

It mostly discusses Smart problem that has never been resolved, i.e. his tendency to shoot much despite his shortcomings and some other stuff.

Most of the issues have been discussed here. Feel free to read.

But, reading it makes me believe more strongly  that Joe is not the right person to be the Celtics head coach.

Interesting numbers cited there.

I do think that part of that comes down to coaching.  The coaching staff needs to 1) specifically get Brown more involved in the offense by calling plays for him; 2) consider putting somebody else (like Brogdon) into Smart's role down the stretch.

[Indocelts]

i got this link below, don't know if i am posting this correctly:

https://985thesportshub.com/listicle/felger-the-celtics-have-a-marcus-smart-problem/

It mostly discusses Smart problem that has never been resolved, i.e. his tendency to shoot much despite his shortcomings and some other stuff.

Most of the issues have been discussed here. Feel free to read.

But, reading it makes me believe more strongly  that Joe is not the right person to be the Celtics head coach.

Smart took his third fewest shots per possession in his career this year, and his fewest since Kyrie left.  He also had his career-high in assists per possession.  Joe rightly comes in for some criticism at times, but he also wrongly comes in for criticism at others, and this is a very good example of the latter.

My bad, please listen to the podcast instead, since some of the article  is not actually in the podcast.

[Roy H.]

i got this link below, don't know if i am posting this correctly:

https://985thesportshub.com/listicle/felger-the-celtics-have-a-marcus-smart-problem/

It mostly discusses Smart problem that has never been resolved, i.e. his tendency to shoot much despite his shortcomings and some other stuff.

Most of the issues have been discussed here. Feel free to read.

But, reading it makes me believe more strongly  that Joe is not the right person to be the Celtics head coach.

Smart took his third fewest shots per possession in his career this year, and his fewest since Kyrie left.  He also had his career-high in assists per possession.  Joe rightly comes in for some criticism at times, but he also wrongly comes in for criticism at others, and this is a very good example of the latter.

Also he's having a career high in FGA per possession in the playoffs.

[Celtics2021]

i got this link below, don't know if i am posting this correctly:

https://985thesportshub.com/listicle/felger-the-celtics-have-a-marcus-smart-problem/

It mostly discusses Smart problem that has never been resolved, i.e. his tendency to shoot much despite his shortcomings and some other stuff.

Most of the issues have been discussed here. Feel free to read.

But, reading it makes me believe more strongly  that Joe is not the right person to be the Celtics head coach.

Smart took his third fewest shots per possession in his career this year, and his fewest since Kyrie left.  He also had his career-high in assists per possession.  Joe rightly comes in for some criticism at times, but he also wrongly comes in for criticism at others, and this is a very good example of the latter.

Also he's having a career high in FGA per possession in the playoffs.

He’s also having a career high TS% of .593 in the playoffs, which is higher than Tatum, Brogdon, and Horford so far this postseason, so I’m not sure that’s a strike against either Smart’s decision-making or Joe’s coaching.

[Roy H.]

i got this link below, don't know if i am posting this correctly:

https://985thesportshub.com/listicle/felger-the-celtics-have-a-marcus-smart-problem/

It mostly discusses Smart problem that has never been resolved, i.e. his tendency to shoot much despite his shortcomings and some other stuff.

Most of the issues have been discussed here. Feel free to read.

But, reading it makes me believe more strongly  that Joe is not the right person to be the Celtics head coach.

Smart took his third fewest shots per possession in his career this year, and his fewest since Kyrie left.  He also had his career-high in assists per possession.  Joe rightly comes in for some criticism at times, but he also wrongly comes in for criticism at others, and this is a very good example of the latter.

Also he's having a career high in FGA per possession in the playoffs.

He’s also having a career high TS% of .593 in the playoffs, which is higher than Tatum, Brogdon, and Horford so far this postseason, so I’m not sure that’s a strike against either Smart’s decision-making or Joe’s coaching.

Hard to say.  He's got a career high ORtg in the playoffs, but the second worst DRtg of his career.  I think our problems this playoff have mostly been related to defense, so I'd consider that an issue. 

But overall, Marcus has played well offensively.  I didn't have a problem with him taking the final shot in Game 4 (particularly because he made it).  The problem was not calling a timeout to set up a better play / giving the team multiple shot attempts / ensuring that guys knew to get into the offense early.  Not starting the play until four seconds was a terrible call.

[mef730]

They may still win in spite of Joe's shortcomings. I hope they do. The talent is there. But, if they lose, Brad and Joe gotta go.

I swear that's the only thing that will shut me up about Joe for the next few months- the C's need to win banner 18 this June lol.

But agreed on the bolded.

I don't feel too strongly about Joe, but Brad is the one who put Brogdon and White on this team. If they lose, it's not his fault. I have no idea what was going on behind the scenes this summer, so I don't know how much Brad's hands were tied.

Bottom line: Stevens put together a team that should win. It's not his fault if they don't.

Mike

[Roy H.]

They may still win in spite of Joe's shortcomings. I hope they do. The talent is there. But, if they lose, Brad and Joe gotta go.

I swear that's the only thing that will shut me up about Joe for the next few months- the C's need to win banner 18 this June lol.

But agreed on the bolded.

I don't feel too strongly about Joe, but Brad is the one who put Brogdon and White on this team. If they lose, it's not his fault. I have no idea what was going on behind the scenes this summer, so I don't know how much Brad's hands were tied.

Bottom line: Stevens put together a team that should win. It's not his fault if they don't.

Mike

Yeah, I've got some issues with the roster construction -- they've needed one more interior big all season long -- but Brad has done a good job with the roster.

We don't have the information to judge him based on his budget and the behind the scenes issues with the coaching staff.  However, *if* Wyc gave him authority to further address the coaching staff via hiring externally -- either for a head coach or veteran assistants -- then Brad gets a chunk of the blame if we don't advance due to Joe.