Deadline hindsight: What would you do differently?

[Moranis]

Wiseman isn't even 22 yet and because of the injury last year and covid he hasn't really even had a training camp.

This year in 21 games he has played 12.5 mpg shooting 63% from 2 and 68.4% from the line and averaging 6.9 ppg, 3.5 rpg, and 0.7 apg equated to per 36 that is 19.9 ppg, 10 rpg, and 1.9 apg.  For a 21 year old big man that has played just 60 games. 

The fact that Golden State has mismanaged him (or he isn't a good fit for their style), doesn't mean he isn't still an uber talented big man.  Detroit got a steal with him.

[td450]

Wiseman isn't even 22 yet and because of the injury last year and covid he hasn't really even had a training camp.

This year in 21 games he has played 12.5 mpg shooting 63% from 2 and 68.4% from the line and averaging 6.9 ppg, 3.5 rpg, and 0.7 apg equated to per 36 that is 19.9 ppg, 10 rpg, and 1.9 apg.  For a 21 year old big man that has played just 60 games. 

The fact that Golden State has mismanaged him (or he isn't a good fit for their style), doesn't mean he isn't still an uber talented big man.  Detroit got a steal with him.

The most successful franchise in the league in the last 10 years, by far, traded him in a maneuver to get Gary Payton II. This despite the fact that center is their weakest position, and Kevin Looney is the only big they really have.

You may be right, but the far greater likelihood is that GS management is, and this guy is never a long term starter in the NBA.

[nebist]

I'm good with Muscala for cheap. I assume we'll sign one of Barton/Ross/Green/Holiday as a wing buyout and that should be a sufficiently deep roster to get us to the playoffs in a good spot.

I was interested in Poeltl or Olynyk as a big, but Olynyk did not get moved and Poeltl was significantly more expensive than Muscala. On balance, I'd rather have Muscala, Pritchard, Gallo (all 3 of which are under team control for next year), and an extra 1st to use later down the road than just Poeltl, who was likely to leave in FA this summer.

[Celtics2021]

Wiseman isn't even 22 yet and because of the injury last year and covid he hasn't really even had a training camp.

This year in 21 games he has played 12.5 mpg shooting 63% from 2 and 68.4% from the line and averaging 6.9 ppg, 3.5 rpg, and 0.7 apg equated to per 36 that is 19.9 ppg, 10 rpg, and 1.9 apg.  For a 21 year old big man that has played just 60 games. 

The fact that Golden State has mismanaged him (or he isn't a good fit for their style), doesn't mean he isn't still an uber talented big man.  Detroit got a steal with him.

He also had a negative 19.3 net rating (per nba.com) and was -20.9 on/off.   That net rating is the second-worst in the NBA for anyone who’s played as much as Wiseman (380 players met that criteria).  He makes over $12 million next year, which you’ve previously said would be too much to pay Grant Williams.  In his time in the G-League (which is already pretty unheard of for a #2 pick to play in year 3) he had a 1:5 assist-turnover ratio in 15 games.  He may be talented, but his game is very broken.

The Celtics simply could not give him the minutes he needs to develop, which is exactly the problem the Warriors had.  Detroit can give him the minutes.  If it works out, great, but in the meantime he’s going to help the Pistons on their tanking mission (one analyst, I forget whom, said he’ll be an excellent tank commander for them).

[Who]

Wiseman isn't even 22 yet and because of the injury last year and covid he hasn't really even had a training camp.

This year in 21 games he has played 12.5 mpg shooting 63% from 2 and 68.4% from the line and averaging 6.9 ppg, 3.5 rpg, and 0.7 apg equated to per 36 that is 19.9 ppg, 10 rpg, and 1.9 apg.  For a 21 year old big man that has played just 60 games. 

The fact that Golden State has mismanaged him (or he isn't a good fit for their style), doesn't mean he isn't still an uber talented big man.  Detroit got a steal with him.

The most successful franchise in the league in the last 10 years, by far, traded him in a maneuver to get Gary Payton II. This despite the fact that center is their weakest position, and Kevin Looney is the only big they really have.

You may be right, but the far greater likelihood is that GS management is, and this guy is never a long term starter in the NBA.

The issue in Golden State seemed to be about Wiseman's lack of BBIQ. His inability to learn defensive systems. Being out of position. Not able to read to the game. And a major defensive liability because of it. This inability to read the game seemed to effect him on offense as well as even no-skill garbage man Looney was better for their offense just by knowing how and when to cut to the basket.

Wiseman needs a lot of education and hard work to get his career on track. There is some talent there but he is very raw ... still.

[GreenlyGreeny]

Given how everything else played out, and seeing what was given up for others compared to what we gave up for Musky, I would not have done anything differently. I love how much ammo we have to use in the off-season if we fall short again and we feel like JB might walk. We are not going to repeat the Kyrie mistake again with JB…

[Yuckabuck33]

Not a win now move, but what about Wiseman? Considering what GS got for him, should Brad have explored that idea?

It's an interesting idea.  The player in that trade I would have liked was Saddiq Bey.  But, since we don't have five second rounders (or whatever the price was) you figure it would have cost us at least a lotto-protected #1.  I'm imagining that Brad didn't want to compromise a future asset.  But, I think that if we could have done that deal, I would have.

But, I don't have any angst about this deadline.  The Celtics got better, but this year and next, and only gave up a couple of seconds.

I would have been happy to sell off one of our firsts for Wiseman but we couldn't have absorbed his salary ($9.3M) the way DET was able to.  So the matching salary probably would have needed to be Gallinari and Pritchard.  Not sure we could have made that work with GSW.

I said elsewhere, I think DET made a very savvy move here.  Bey is a nice enough player but not nearly the ceiling of Wiseman.  DET will find plenty of other players to replace Bey in the upcoming drafts but probably not another Wiseman.

If we could have somehow gotten Bey out of it, that would have been great.  I would trade Pritchard and a second for him.  He is a nice pick up for ATL.

Probably GSW got the least out of this trade.  Gary Payton will help them some but I feel the tax forced their hand some.  I don't think they trade Wiseman for Payton if it didn't also save them money.

I think Boston could have done something like this

Boston - Wiseman
Golden State - 25 1st (lotto)
San Antonio - Jackson, Griffin, Kornet, Pritchard, cash, HOU 2nd

Any team with the cap space would have worked for the San Antonio part and we still could have fit Muscala into the TPE and made that trade

So post trade

Starters - Smart, Brown, Tatum, Rob, Horford
Bench - White, Brogdon, Hauser, Grant, Muscala, Wiseman
2W - Kabengele, Davison
Injury - Gallinari

Top 11 is solid (top 12 with Gallo), add a buy out guy or two and go from there.

Griffin, Kornet, Pritchard....
Sounds like a chemistry killing Perk 2.0 trade to me.

[Roy H.]

Not a win now move, but what about Wiseman? Considering what GS got for him, should Brad have explored that idea?

It's an interesting idea.  The player in that trade I would have liked was Saddiq Bey.  But, since we don't have five second rounders (or whatever the price was) you figure it would have cost us at least a lotto-protected #1.  I'm imagining that Brad didn't want to compromise a future asset.  But, I think that if we could have done that deal, I would have.

But, I don't have any angst about this deadline.  The Celtics got better, but this year and next, and only gave up a couple of seconds.

I would have been happy to sell off one of our firsts for Wiseman but we couldn't have absorbed his salary ($9.3M) the way DET was able to.  So the matching salary probably would have needed to be Gallinari and Pritchard.  Not sure we could have made that work with GSW.

I said elsewhere, I think DET made a very savvy move here.  Bey is a nice enough player but not nearly the ceiling of Wiseman.  DET will find plenty of other players to replace Bey in the upcoming drafts but probably not another Wiseman.

If we could have somehow gotten Bey out of it, that would have been great.  I would trade Pritchard and a second for him.  He is a nice pick up for ATL.

Probably GSW got the least out of this trade.  Gary Payton will help them some but I feel the tax forced their hand some.  I don't think they trade Wiseman for Payton if it didn't also save them money.

I think Boston could have done something like this

Boston - Wiseman
Golden State - 25 1st (lotto)
San Antonio - Jackson, Griffin, Kornet, Pritchard, cash, HOU 2nd

Any team with the cap space would have worked for the San Antonio part and we still could have fit Muscala into the TPE and made that trade

So post trade

Starters - Smart, Brown, Tatum, Rob, Horford
Bench - White, Brogdon, Hauser, Grant, Muscala, Wiseman
2W - Kabengele, Davison
Injury - Gallinari

Top 11 is solid (top 12 with Gallo), add a buy out guy or two and go from there.

Griffin, Kornet, Pritchard....
Sounds like a chemistry killing Perk 2.0 trade to me.

It's an important factor.  I read somewhere that the team got together and essentially begged Brad to keep the team together.

[SHAQATTACK]

Went to bed earlier 

[Indocelts]

I like what we have now. The key point in Joe’s offensive philosophy is the 3pt shots, and most of our players now are fully capable of launching ones, including Muscala. I’m envisioning him to be thriving with our offense, sort of GW 2.0. If the Cs decides not to resign GW  then we have the backup plan ready.

[C3LTSF4N]

Terrence Ross and Magic agreeing to a buyout.  Fingers crossed, I’d be content with Muscala and Ross as deadline results.

[Big333223]

Terrence Ross and Magic agreeing to a buyout.  Fingers crossed, I’d be content with Muscala and Ross as deadline results.

Yep. Ross, Barton, Danny Green... If the Celtics nab one of those guys (who are all better than Justin Jackson) then they upgrade on their wing depth and Muscala winds up, effectively, costing just 2 seconds rounders. That'd be nice.

[tonydelk]

I love the Muscala trade.  For some reason I think that Wiseman is still going to be a good player and I wish the C's would have moved Pritchard (and matching salary) for him.

[dannyboy35]

  I would have given 2 1sts to get Poetl.

[radiohead]

Terrence Ross and Magic agreeing to a buyout.  Fingers crossed, I’d be content with Muscala and Ross as deadline results.

He’s joining the Suns. So we’re down to Will Barton or Danny Green i guess.