Smart has taken a leap this year.

[Sophomore]

As much as I like Brogdon (not to mention Rob and Derrick), Smart is the 3rd member of the 2022-23 Big 3.

Boston is not a big 3, it is disrespectful to both Tatum and Brown to include Smart as anywhere near them.

We all know the Jays are head and shoulders above any other teammate. While it pushes the envelope to include Smart in a Boston Big 3, I sincerely doubt either Jay would feel disrespected by the suggestion that Smart is #3. 

In addition to being an emotional leader and averaging 7+ assists, he’s the defending Defensive Player of the Year. Not without a resume.

I agree with Rody that a healthy Rob is a candidate for the third slot. And of course a team doesn’t require an actual Big 3, it’s just an NBA tradition to identify the core 3.  Not all that meaningful.

Also, on the original big three, Ray Allen was pretty clearly on a different (lower) level than KG and Pierce. Yes he could shoot, but as a shot creator and defender? He needed a lot of help.

That is crazy talk. The gap between KG/Pierce and Allen was significantly smaller than the gap between JT/JB and Smart. Allen was a perennial all star/all nba player. You can argue that Pierce and Allen were on the same plying field. Both were inferior to KG.

Ray Allen was on the same level as Paul Pierce?! No.

In the championship year, Allen shot .398 from 3. Pierce shot .392. Barely better, and that was *easily* Allen’s best skill. Pierce also created his own shot and played much better defense, taking on the other team’s top scorer. Allen had to he hidden and protected on D.  More assists more rebounds too. He was better on both sides of the ball, and I don’t think there was any doubt. Which is why Paul Pierce was all-NBA and Ray Allen was not. Allen was definitely the third amigo - a complementary piece.

The year before Ray was traded to the C’s, he averaged 26.4pts, 4.5rebs, 4.1ast. His role changed when he joined Boston, but let’s not confuse that with him not being a great player. He was a first ballot HOFer.

Allen was a fine player - and clearly the third best of the big 3. Wherever he did when he was younger doesn’t change what he was in Boston. I don’t see how it’s even an argument. Why was Pierce all-NBA the title year and Allen not?

He averaged those numbers the year before he joined the C’s. It wasn’t in his younger years. Pierce averaged 2pts per game more than Ray did the year they won the championship. Not sure why you are trying to make it sound like there is a massive talent gap between the two. I Think PAO said it best with the above.

Pierce made his own shots, he didn't take passes for catch and shoot 3s. Allen was a minus defender. He was a good enough shooter that it was still a big 3, but they were easy to rank - KG-PP-RA.

[PAOBoston]

As much as I like Brogdon (not to mention Rob and Derrick), Smart is the 3rd member of the 2022-23 Big 3.

Boston is not a big 3, it is disrespectful to both Tatum and Brown to include Smart as anywhere near them.

We all know the Jays are head and shoulders above any other teammate. While it pushes the envelope to include Smart in a Boston Big 3, I sincerely doubt either Jay would feel disrespected by the suggestion that Smart is #3. 

In addition to being an emotional leader and averaging 7+ assists, he’s the defending Defensive Player of the Year. Not without a resume.

I agree with Rody that a healthy Rob is a candidate for the third slot. And of course a team doesn’t require an actual Big 3, it’s just an NBA tradition to identify the core 3.  Not all that meaningful.

Also, on the original big three, Ray Allen was pretty clearly on a different (lower) level than KG and Pierce. Yes he could shoot, but as a shot creator and defender? He needed a lot of help.

That is crazy talk. The gap between KG/Pierce and Allen was significantly smaller than the gap between JT/JB and Smart. Allen was a perennial all star/all nba player. You can argue that Pierce and Allen were on the same plying field. Both were inferior to KG.

Ray Allen was on the same level as Paul Pierce?! No.

In the championship year, Allen shot .398 from 3. Pierce shot .392. Barely better, and that was *easily* Allen’s best skill. Pierce also created his own shot and played much better defense, taking on the other team’s top scorer. Allen had to he hidden and protected on D.  More assists more rebounds too. He was better on both sides of the ball, and I don’t think there was any doubt. Which is why Paul Pierce was all-NBA and Ray Allen was not. Allen was definitely the third amigo - a complementary piece.

The year before Ray was traded to the C’s, he averaged 26.4pts, 4.5rebs, 4.1ast. His role changed when he joined Boston, but let’s not confuse that with him not being a great player. He was a first ballot HOFer.

Allen was a fine player - and clearly the third best of the big 3. Wherever he did when he was younger doesn’t change what he was in Boston. I don’t see how it’s even an argument. Why was Pierce all-NBA the title year and Allen not?

He averaged those numbers the year before he joined the C’s. It wasn’t in his younger years. Pierce averaged 2pts per game more than Ray did the year they won the championship. Not sure why you are trying to make it sound like there is a massive talent gap between the two. I Think PAO said it best with the above.

Pierce made his own shots, he didn't take passes for catch and shoot 3s. Allen was a minus defender. He was a good enough shooter that it was still a big 3, but they were easy to rank - KG-PP-RA.

You do realize Ray Allen was a three level scorer prior to coming to Boston right? He wasn’t always just a catch and shoot guy like he was later in his career during his time in Boston and Miami. Feels like a lot of people don’t remember how prolific a scorer Allen was for Milwaukee and Seattle.

[liam]

Smart is playing his worse game of the season tonight.

[Goldstar88]

As much as I like Brogdon (not to mention Rob and Derrick), Smart is the 3rd member of the 2022-23 Big 3.

Boston is not a big 3, it is disrespectful to both Tatum and Brown to include Smart as anywhere near them.

We all know the Jays are head and shoulders above any other teammate. While it pushes the envelope to include Smart in a Boston Big 3, I sincerely doubt either Jay would feel disrespected by the suggestion that Smart is #3. 

In addition to being an emotional leader and averaging 7+ assists, he’s the defending Defensive Player of the Year. Not without a resume.

I agree with Rody that a healthy Rob is a candidate for the third slot. And of course a team doesn’t require an actual Big 3, it’s just an NBA tradition to identify the core 3.  Not all that meaningful.

Also, on the original big three, Ray Allen was pretty clearly on a different (lower) level than KG and Pierce. Yes he could shoot, but as a shot creator and defender? He needed a lot of help.

That is crazy talk. The gap between KG/Pierce and Allen was significantly smaller than the gap between JT/JB and Smart. Allen was a perennial all star/all nba player. You can argue that Pierce and Allen were on the same plying field. Both were inferior to KG.

Ray Allen was on the same level as Paul Pierce?! No.

In the championship year, Allen shot .398 from 3. Pierce shot .392. Barely better, and that was *easily* Allen’s best skill. Pierce also created his own shot and played much better defense, taking on the other team’s top scorer. Allen had to he hidden and protected on D.  More assists more rebounds too. He was better on both sides of the ball, and I don’t think there was any doubt. Which is why Paul Pierce was all-NBA and Ray Allen was not. Allen was definitely the third amigo - a complementary piece.

The year before Ray was traded to the C’s, he averaged 26.4pts, 4.5rebs, 4.1ast. His role changed when he joined Boston, but let’s not confuse that with him not being a great player. He was a first ballot HOFer.

Allen was a fine player - and clearly the third best of the big 3. Wherever he did when he was younger doesn’t change what he was in Boston. I don’t see how it’s even an argument. Why was Pierce all-NBA the title year and Allen not?

He averaged those numbers the year before he joined the C’s. It wasn’t in his younger years. Pierce averaged 2pts per game more than Ray did the year they won the championship. Not sure why you are trying to make it sound like there is a massive talent gap between the two. I Think PAO said it best with the above.

Pierce made his own shots, he didn't take passes for catch and shoot 3s. Allen was a minus defender. He was a good enough shooter that it was still a big 3, but they were easy to rank - KG-PP-RA.

Sure he did. Pierce did very well shooting those with his set shot.

[ozgod]

So Smart is trash again?

[SHAQATTACK]

So Smart is trash again?

Depends if we won or lost the last game 

[liam]

So Smart is trash again?

No, just a bad game...

[Neurotic Guy]

So Smart is trash again?

Hah -- no, just the power of jinx at work.

[Moranis]

Allen was arguably better than Pierce when they joined up, but Pierce was younger and took less of a backseat than Allen, so he built up more stat equity when they were together.  They both only had 2 All NBA 3rd Teams before playing together, but Allen is the only one of the two that finished in the top ten in MVP voting.  Allen had 7 all star appearances to Pierce's 5.  They both had 4 post season appearances making the conference finals one time.  That is before they joined up together.  Allen was in the league longer and was older, so he was more at the end than Pierce, and Allen was fine taking 3rd fiddle (pierce wouldn't have been).  They were both clearly behind Garnett, but were right next to each other.  They were all multiple time all stars and all nba team players though.  That is why you could call them a big 3.  You can't do that with this current team.  Smart just isn't in the same class as Brown, let alone Tatum.

Also as an aside, the disrespect that Allen gets on this board is quite shocking.  He was a clear HOF and was very much on the same level as Pierce. As further evidence, in 2020 ESPN ranked their top 74 players of all time.  They had Pierce at 54 and Allen at 56 (Vince Carter was between them). 

[Goldstar88]

Allen was arguably better than Pierce when they joined up, but Pierce was younger and took less of a backseat than Allen, so he built up more stat equity when they were together.  They both only had 2 All NBA 3rd Teams before playing together, but Allen is the only one of the two that finished in the top ten in MVP voting.  Allen had 7 all star appearances to Pierce's 5.  They both had 4 post season appearances making the conference finals one time.  That is before they joined up together.  Allen was in the league longer and was older, so he was more at the end than Pierce, and Allen was fine taking 3rd fiddle (pierce wouldn't have been).  They were both clearly behind Garnett, but were right next to each other.  They were all multiple time all stars and all nba team players though.  That is why you could call them a big 3.  You can't do that with this current team.  Smart just isn't in the same class as Brown, let alone Tatum.

Also as an aside, the disrespect that Allen gets on this board is quite shocking.  He was a clear HOF and was very much on the same level as Pierce. As further evidence, in 2020 ESPN ranked their top 74 players of all time.  They had Pierce at 54 and Allen at 56 (Vince Carter was between them).

I agree, except for the part about being shocked regarding the disrespect Ray Allen gets on this board.  Lol

[Sophomore]

Allen was arguably better than Pierce when they joined up, but Pierce was younger and took less of a backseat than Allen, so he built up more stat equity when they were together.  They both only had 2 All NBA 3rd Teams before playing together, but Allen is the only one of the two that finished in the top ten in MVP voting.  Allen had 7 all star appearances to Pierce's 5.  They both had 4 post season appearances making the conference finals one time.  That is before they joined up together.  Allen was in the league longer and was older, so he was more at the end than Pierce, and Allen was fine taking 3rd fiddle (pierce wouldn't have been).  They were both clearly behind Garnett, but were right next to each other.  They were all multiple time all stars and all nba team players though.  That is why you could call them a big 3.  You can't do that with this current team.  Smart just isn't in the same class as Brown, let alone Tatum.

Also as an aside, the disrespect that Allen gets on this board is quite shocking.  He was a clear HOF and was very much on the same level as Pierce. As further evidence, in 2020 ESPN ranked their top 74 players of all time.  They had Pierce at 54 and Allen at 56 (Vince Carter was between them).

I agree, except for the part about being shocked regarding the disrespect Ray Allen gets on this board.  Lol

Go tell it to the all-NBA voters.

2007-08 all-NBA voting. Paul Pierce is on with 151 points. Ray Allen is not - he gets 4 points. https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2008.html

2008-09 all-NBA voting. Paul Pierce is on with 331 votes. Ray Allen is not - he gets 6 points. https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2009.html

The next year Pierce and Allen both noticeably decline and so does the team.

Honestly I don’t get the argument that Allen was as good as Pierce but he took a back seat. If he was as good why did they give him a smaller role?  If rating Pierce ahead of Allen during the Cs’ contending years is wrong, at least we seem to have a lot of company in this “mistake”.

[Moranis]

Allen was arguably better than Pierce when they joined up, but Pierce was younger and took less of a backseat than Allen, so he built up more stat equity when they were together.  They both only had 2 All NBA 3rd Teams before playing together, but Allen is the only one of the two that finished in the top ten in MVP voting.  Allen had 7 all star appearances to Pierce's 5.  They both had 4 post season appearances making the conference finals one time.  That is before they joined up together.  Allen was in the league longer and was older, so he was more at the end than Pierce, and Allen was fine taking 3rd fiddle (pierce wouldn't have been).  They were both clearly behind Garnett, but were right next to each other.  They were all multiple time all stars and all nba team players though.  That is why you could call them a big 3.  You can't do that with this current team.  Smart just isn't in the same class as Brown, let alone Tatum.

Also as an aside, the disrespect that Allen gets on this board is quite shocking.  He was a clear HOF and was very much on the same level as Pierce. As further evidence, in 2020 ESPN ranked their top 74 players of all time.  They had Pierce at 54 and Allen at 56 (Vince Carter was between them).

I agree, except for the part about being shocked regarding the disrespect Ray Allen gets on this board.  Lol

Go tell it to the all-NBA voters.

2007-08 all-NBA voting. Paul Pierce is on with 151 points. Ray Allen is not - he gets 4 points. https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2008.html

2008-09 all-NBA voting. Paul Pierce is on with 331 votes. Ray Allen is not - he gets 6 points. https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2009.html

The next year Pierce and Allen both noticeably decline and so does the team.

Honestly I don’t get the argument that Allen was as good as Pierce but he took a back seat. If he was as good why did they give him a smaller role?  If rating Pierce ahead of Allen during the Cs’ contending years is wrong, at least we seem to have a lot of company in this “mistake”.

It is about what is best for the team. Allen's style of play was far more conducive to be a 3rd player.  He was also older and more willing to take the hit than Pierce was. 

And to be clear, I said when they joined up Allen was arguably the better player, but also pretty clearly said he was older and declined faster.  Pierce was obviously the better player over the entirety of their 5 years together, but that first year, Allen was still every bit as good as Pierce and Allen was better in the finals by many metrics (he shot so well he just opened it up for everyone), Pierce just shot a lot more and thus ended up with slightly more points and since he was the Captain, he got the Finals MVP.  Pierce had a game in the Finals in which he shot 2 of 14 and another at 4 of 13. 

[Moranis]

Allen was arguably better than Pierce when they joined up, but Pierce was younger and took less of a backseat than Allen, so he built up more stat equity when they were together.  They both only had 2 All NBA 3rd Teams before playing together, but Allen is the only one of the two that finished in the top ten in MVP voting.  Allen had 7 all star appearances to Pierce's 5.  They both had 4 post season appearances making the conference finals one time.  That is before they joined up together.  Allen was in the league longer and was older, so he was more at the end than Pierce, and Allen was fine taking 3rd fiddle (pierce wouldn't have been).  They were both clearly behind Garnett, but were right next to each other.  They were all multiple time all stars and all nba team players though.  That is why you could call them a big 3.  You can't do that with this current team.  Smart just isn't in the same class as Brown, let alone Tatum.

Also as an aside, the disrespect that Allen gets on this board is quite shocking.  He was a clear HOF and was very much on the same level as Pierce. As further evidence, in 2020 ESPN ranked their top 74 players of all time.  They had Pierce at 54 and Allen at 56 (Vince Carter was between them).

I agree, except for the part about being shocked regarding the disrespect Ray Allen gets on this board.  Lol

I get many felt betrayed when he left, but acting like he was terrible and not important is just wrong on so many levels (and clearly not accurate).  Boston doesn't win that title without Ray Allen.  That isn't debatable at all. 

[Goldstar88]

Allen was arguably better than Pierce when they joined up, but Pierce was younger and took less of a backseat than Allen, so he built up more stat equity when they were together.  They both only had 2 All NBA 3rd Teams before playing together, but Allen is the only one of the two that finished in the top ten in MVP voting.  Allen had 7 all star appearances to Pierce's 5.  They both had 4 post season appearances making the conference finals one time.  That is before they joined up together.  Allen was in the league longer and was older, so he was more at the end than Pierce, and Allen was fine taking 3rd fiddle (pierce wouldn't have been).  They were both clearly behind Garnett, but were right next to each other.  They were all multiple time all stars and all nba team players though.  That is why you could call them a big 3.  You can't do that with this current team.  Smart just isn't in the same class as Brown, let alone Tatum.

Also as an aside, the disrespect that Allen gets on this board is quite shocking.  He was a clear HOF and was very much on the same level as Pierce. As further evidence, in 2020 ESPN ranked their top 74 players of all time.  They had Pierce at 54 and Allen at 56 (Vince Carter was between them).

I agree, except for the part about being shocked regarding the disrespect Ray Allen gets on this board.  Lol

I get many felt betrayed when he left, but acting like he was terrible and not important is just wrong on so many levels (and clearly not accurate).  Boston doesn't win that title without Ray Allen.  That isn't debatable at all.

Yep. Agreed.

[ozgod]

Allen was arguably better than Pierce when they joined up, but Pierce was younger and took less of a backseat than Allen, so he built up more stat equity when they were together.  They both only had 2 All NBA 3rd Teams before playing together, but Allen is the only one of the two that finished in the top ten in MVP voting.  Allen had 7 all star appearances to Pierce's 5.  They both had 4 post season appearances making the conference finals one time.  That is before they joined up together.  Allen was in the league longer and was older, so he was more at the end than Pierce, and Allen was fine taking 3rd fiddle (pierce wouldn't have been).  They were both clearly behind Garnett, but were right next to each other.  They were all multiple time all stars and all nba team players though.  That is why you could call them a big 3.  You can't do that with this current team.  Smart just isn't in the same class as Brown, let alone Tatum.

Also as an aside, the disrespect that Allen gets on this board is quite shocking.  He was a clear HOF and was very much on the same level as Pierce. As further evidence, in 2020 ESPN ranked their top 74 players of all time.  They had Pierce at 54 and Allen at 56 (Vince Carter was between them).

I agree, except for the part about being shocked regarding the disrespect Ray Allen gets on this board.  Lol

I get many felt betrayed when he left, but acting like he was terrible and not important is just wrong on so many levels (and clearly not accurate).  Boston doesn't win that title without Ray Allen.  That isn't debatable at all.

Yep. Agreed.

My personal view of his departure was that by helping us to a championship, our first since 1986, Ray earned the right to do what he wanted with his career and he left with my best wishes. But I can understand how folks can see it as a betrayal - good players aren't allowed to leave our team, only bad ones  or old ones...KG and Paul wanted to end their careers with the Cs but Ainge traded them to the Nets and gave our team new life. I don't see Ray leaving for Miami as being anything different to that - it's him exercising what is best for him, just as Danny exercised what was best for the Celtics by trading KG and PP. Control your destiny.