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Author Topic: Mazz Correcting One Of Ime's "Faults"?  (Read 2299 times)

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Mazz Correcting One Of Ime's "Faults"?
« on: November 29, 2022, 09:47:30 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I think that Ime did a fantastic job holding the team accountable last season.  The defensive play was phenomenal, and the offense was very good.  The one issue I had with him was that he stuck to a shortened rotation for pretty much the entire season and playoffs.

Mazz is playing a lot more players, and in turn he's getting a lot more out of the "end of bench" guys on the team.  We've got 11 guys averaging 12 or more minutes per game.  Some of the players (Griffin, Pritchard) haven't played every game, but when they do get called upon, they're trusted to handle their role.

I think that this is a big benefit.  By playing guys, you build chemistry while maintaining sharpness and developing skills.  In the event that there is an injury, we've got guys ready to step up.  Yes, the counterpoint to this is that we have more talent this year.  But, guys like Kornet and Hauser were on the roster last year, and they were largely ignored. 
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Re: Mazz Correcting One Of Ime's "Faults"?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2022, 10:20:21 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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I don’t know that this is a fair criticism or an actual correction.  12 of last year’s 15 guys on the opening day roster averaged at least 11 minutes per game, and all of those 12 played in at least 60% of their games while they were on the Cs.  Meanwhile, Tatum, Brown, and Horford are all averaging more mpg this year than last.
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Re: Mazz Correcting One Of Ime's "Faults"?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2022, 10:25:13 AM »

Offline sgrogan

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Quote from: Roy H. on November 29, 2022, 09:47:30 AM
I think that Ime did a fantastic job holding the team accountable last season.  The defensive play was phenomenal, and the offense was very good.  The one issue I had with him was that he stuck to a shortened rotation for pretty much the entire season and playoffs.

Mazz is playing a lot more players, and in turn he's getting a lot more out of the "end of bench" guys on the team.  We've got 11 guys averaging 12 or more minutes per game.  Some of the players (Griffin, Pritchard) haven't played every game, but when they do get called upon, they're trusted to handle their role.

I think that this is a big benefit.  By playing guys, you build chemistry while maintaining sharpness and developing skills.  In the event that there is an injury, we've got guys ready to step up.  Yes, the counterpoint to this is that we have more talent this year.  But, guys like Kornet and Hauser were on the roster last year, and they were largely ignored.
I think its mostly the bench players playing well. And some early season health.

Tatum, Brown, Al, and Grant are playing more mpg. Marcus the same.
Brogdon is so much better than Shroeder despite similar counting stats.
White has outplayed White from last year who was a better fit than Richardson.
Hauser has out played the Langford/Neismith combination.
Kornet has outplayed Freedom, he seems to be approaching Theis' impact.
Griffin has filled the Hermongomez/Parker role, but looks like a better fit.

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Re: Mazz Correcting One Of Ime's "Faults"?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2022, 10:25:35 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

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That’s an issue I had with Udoka as well.  Pritchard was rotting on the bench last year until Schroder was traded away.  The few times he or Nesmith played, Udoka would take them out after one mistake which clearly got into their heads.  I like how Mazzula finds everyone playing time.  The team and those players are clearly benefiting from it.
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Re: Mazz Correcting One Of Ime's "Faults"?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2022, 10:40:57 AM »

Offline Smartacus

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I agree it is refreshing to see the deeper rotation to start the season. Kornet in particular has earned his opportunity and Pritchard has made the most out of any time that he's been on the court.

All that being said, I do think that Ime had to right the ship early on. The chemistry was still in shambles and rotations and roles were unclear. Ime correctly shortened the rotation early on to fix the issues that the team had been plagued with since Brad's final year. The issue was that he never deviated from that short rotation. He found what worked and he stuck with it at the expense of rested legs in the playoffs. The result was a finals appearance but arguably one by a gassed team that didn't have a real chance against GSW.

Mazzula has got to build off the rock solid chemistry developed by the short rotation last year while integrating the end of bench guys to better preserve the team health. He and Ime have had different challanges but there is no doubt that Mazzula's rotations have worked perfectly and he deserves full credit for the sustainable offensive environment that the team is bringing night in and night out. I'm withholding final judgement to see what happens if and when Mazzulla shortens the rotations come playoff time.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2022, 10:51:14 AM by Smartacus »
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Re: Mazz Correcting One Of Ime's "Faults"?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2022, 11:11:08 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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We were blowing up teams last year thats why the main guys were averaging less. We are currently getting more blowouts than the start of the season so expect the numbers to get lower.
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Re: Mazz Correcting One Of Ime's "Faults"?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2022, 11:22:50 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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I didn’t think the offense last season looked nearly as good as it does this year. The team had 40 assists yesterday. The most they’ve had since 2008. Ball movement has been excellent under coach Mazz. Felt like Ime was slow with in game adjustments, sometimes it didn’t seem like he made them at all. End of game plays were bad, too. I do think Udoka was a good defensive coach and a strong voice in the locker room. Will be interesting to see how the defense looks under Mazz once Rob comes back.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2022, 11:27:53 AM by Goldstar88 »
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Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.
Re: Mazz Correcting One Of Ime's "Faults"?
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2022, 03:53:28 AM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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I’m old-school and think every team should always play at least ten guys per game, even if it’s relatively short minutes for 1-2 of them. Kudos to Mazz for recognizing how long the season is and that we’ve got depth that, if coached/allocated correctly, can keep us fresh for the playoffs. Clearly Mazz is front runner for coach of the year. We really ought to dump Udoka right after the holidays. 
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Re: Mazz Correcting One Of Ime's "Faults"?
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2022, 06:23:44 AM »

Offline cman88

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It also was our Achilles heel last playoffs. We went stagnant because our main guys were just beaten and worn out by the short rotation.

It's crazy to me we are averaging 120 ppg when last year sometimes it was a struggle to hit 80 or 90!

Sure the rotation will be shortened in the playoffs. But you always want the option to say throw Hauser in there one game and he goes off. Last year our bench was white and grant....that's it

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Re: Mazz Correcting One Of Ime's "Faults"?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2022, 07:41:34 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Quote from: cman88 on November 30, 2022, 06:23:44 AM
It also was our Achilles heel last playoffs. We went stagnant because our main guys were just beaten and worn out by the short rotation.

It's crazy to me we are averaging 120 ppg when last year sometimes it was a struggle to hit 80 or 90!

Sure the rotation will be shortened in the playoffs. But you always want the option to say throw Hauser in there one game and he goes off. Last year our bench was white and grant....that's it

This. Sure you will mostly go to a 8-9 rotation in the playoffs. But in some games you will be forced to make changes and play other players, whether its to change the look, or players playing poorly or matchups, injuries and foul trouble. If during the season you have already played these guys, its an easier decision to insert some of them come playoffs.
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Re: Mazz Correcting One Of Ime's "Faults"?
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2022, 07:47:27 AM »

Offline Redz

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Quote from: Goldstar88 on November 29, 2022, 11:22:50 AM
I didn’t think the offense last season looked nearly as good as it does this year. The team had 40 assists yesterday. The most they’ve had since 2008. Ball movement has been excellent under coach Mazz. Felt like Ime was slow with in game adjustments, sometimes it didn’t seem like he made them at all. End of game plays were bad, too. I do think Udoka was a good defensive coach and a strong voice in the locker room. Will be interesting to see how the defense looks under Mazz once Rob comes back.

Yeh.  Really curious to see how they use TL.  Assuming everyone else is relatively healthy.  I think ideally play him 15-20 a game and let him rest on back to backs alternating with Horford.  He’ll be great in the offense with all the ball movement.  He’s more than capable of the quick swing pass from the post.  And we’re already seeing plenty of dunks from cutters.  I’d love to see him at least attempt one or two 10-15 jumpers a game.  But I’m not sure how that fits in.

Defensively, if Kornet can turn into a monster on this team, I’m sure Rob can find a way to dominate again too.  Just baby that knee.

Should be exciting.
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Re: Mazz Correcting One Of Ime's "Faults"?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2022, 08:07:13 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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There are two aspects to this.  How much are you playing your main guys and how many players overall are getting some regular minutes.  As several have said, our main guys are actually playing more this season than at this point last season.  It is not a big difference, but certainly does not support the notion that they are being saved for the playoffs or whatever.

The other aspect is how many total players are getting in on a given night, 9, 10, 11....  I have not gone though to check the numbers but on most nights in competitive games, we are only playing 9 or 10, seems about the same as last season.  The difference seems to be that one night Griffin plays but then doesn't play at all for a couple of games.  Earlier on, Vonleh was playing but now he isn't as much.  One or the other seems to play.  So over the course of a week, 10 or 11 players get in (other than garbage time) but in each game, it is still only 9-10.

I don't see an issue or a correction here.  We have 7 players over 20 min/game (should be 8 when RWill is back).  Then we have Hauser, Pritchard, and Kornet (8-10) jockeying for 10-17 min per night.  Griffin and Vonleh (11-12) play some times in the regular rotation, but usually not.  Jackson, Davison, and Kabengele (13-15) are end of bench garbage time only.  Last season really wasn't much different, 7 or 8 getting 20+ minutes.

Tatum
Brown
Smart
Horford
RWill

White (Schroder)
Grant
         (Richardson)
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Re: Mazz Correcting One Of Ime's "Faults"?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2022, 01:10:26 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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Quote from: sgrogan on November 29, 2022, 10:25:13 AM
Quote from: Roy H. on November 29, 2022, 09:47:30 AM
I think that Ime did a fantastic job holding the team accountable last season.  The defensive play was phenomenal, and the offense was very good.  The one issue I had with him was that he stuck to a shortened rotation for pretty much the entire season and playoffs.

Mazz is playing a lot more players, and in turn he's getting a lot more out of the "end of bench" guys on the team.  We've got 11 guys averaging 12 or more minutes per game.  Some of the players (Griffin, Pritchard) haven't played every game, but when they do get called upon, they're trusted to handle their role.

I think that this is a big benefit.  By playing guys, you build chemistry while maintaining sharpness and developing skills.  In the event that there is an injury, we've got guys ready to step up.  Yes, the counterpoint to this is that we have more talent this year.  But, guys like Kornet and Hauser were on the roster last year, and they were largely ignored.
I think its mostly the bench players playing well. And some early season health.

Tatum, Brown, Al, and Grant are playing more mpg. Marcus the same.
Brogdon is so much better than Shroeder despite similar counting stats.
White has outplayed White from last year who was a better fit than Richardson.
Hauser has out played the Langford/Neismith combination.
Kornet has outplayed Freedom, he seems to be approaching Theis' impact.
Griffin has filled the Hermongomez/Parker role, but looks like a better fit.
Yes to 'bench players playing well' I think that's the main factor, not coaching style.
But for 'early season health' it's more the opposite 'early season injuries' (R-Will and Gallo out) that has forced Mazz to play more of the bench especially in the front court.
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Re: Mazz Correcting One Of Ime's "Faults"?
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2022, 01:34:22 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Development of a sound bench , having the right guys with team attitude….like Blake , White, and Malcolm is so important to push the team though the playoff battles.

Don’t think it was IMe s flaw ….it was still early in his reign,  he did not survive till the plan can though. They made a run at a title , maybe a 1/2 year too early and he pushed hard.

Joe is doing a great job with the second core crew , a better battle tested group than Ime had the  first year,

I think Ime would be doing exactly what Mazz is doing , if not close .  It was his first season and the team was not yet finished .  The horses are there now to dethrone the Warriors .

I think Mazz knew the agenda , plans , wishes .  CBS scored some nice moves and Mazz has worked hard to follow the Ime and BS plan .

Ime righted the ship and demanded accountability of everyone from Tatum down .

Coach Joe is faithfully seeing it all though.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2022, 01:40:27 PM by SHAQATTACK »
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