Poll: Best Player to Build a Franchise Around

[Vermont Green]

Sure, my question came from this bit of the OP:   

For this question, I am saying that if you were starting a new NBA franchise and could pick one player to start to build around, who would you pick?  Not just for one season, but to build a franchise around (whatever time horizon you think).

(Another wrinkle: 'today' is in the poll but not in the thread title).

I think on more reflection if I had free reign as a GM I might pick Jokic tbh, just because I love bigs with elite playmaking.

OK, yeah, I tried to be as unambiguous as I could with the question.  The time horizon in my mind was from today forward, not going back in time.  Maybe someone prefers Doncic over Giannis because he is younger by 3 or 4 years.  Someone else thinks Giannis is young enough to build a franchise around.  No wrong answers.

As to Jokic, he is in the group of 4 or 5 or so that clearly would be a reasonable choice.  Giannis, Tatum, Doncic, even Morant isn't a bad choice.  OK, that is 5.  Imagine that team:

PG:    Morant
SG:    Doncic
SF:     Tatum
PF:     Giannis
C:      Jokic

I think the main point for Celtics fans is that Tatum is solidly in this top 5 discussion.  Even top 3 discussion.  You generally need one of this caliber of player to be a true championship contender, and the Celtics have one.  Hopefully, in a few years, the discussion for Tatum is where he ranks all time as a Celtic.  Top 5?  Top 3?  To me, it is too early for that, it would be a projection, not an actual comparison.  But soon enough.

[td450]

Since we are playing OKC tonight, it might be worth looking at Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and what he's done so far this year. His numbers stack up pretty well with Tatum so far this year.

It seems to me that Giannis is a bit ahead of everyone else, but the league has more top end talent than any time since the 80's.

[Vermont Green]

Since we are playing OKC tonight, it might be worth looking at Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and what he's done so far this year. His numbers stack up pretty well with Tatum so far this year.

It seems to me that Giannis is a bit ahead of everyone else, but the league has more top end talent than any time since the 80's.

I thought of Shai.  I think he suffers from having put up good numbers on a bad team.  It tends to not be given the same value.  Doesn't mean he isn't as good as some of these others, it just isn't perceived as the same as someone who does it on a top team and through the playoffs.

It will be fun to get a chance to see him play.

[SparzWizard]

Giannis in a landslide. The greatest NBA player in the world, currently.

[Atzar]

Giannis. 

When answering a question like this, I think it's better to focus on the short-to-medium term rather than hoping that a guy like Doncic rules the league for 15 years.  Giannis is the best player in the world right now, and he's young enough that this probably doesn't change in the next five years except by injury. 

It's fun to dream on guys like Doncic or Tatum or Zion or Ja spearheading a decade-long run of contention, but the reality is that the Dirks and Duncans of the league are much rarer than guys like Kawhi or Lebron or Dwight, who decline or move on for any variety of reasons.  So I wouldn't feel comfortable penciling in any one of those guys for an extended run with a single franchise that lasts longer than Giannis' prime. 

[nickagneta]

Giannis. 

When answering a question like this, I think it's better to focus on the short-to-medium term rather than hoping that a guy like Doncic rules the league for 15 years.  Giannis is the best player in the world right now, and he's young enough that this probably doesn't change in the next five years except by injury. 

It's fun to dream on guys like Doncic or Tatum or Zion or Ja spearheading a decade-long run of contention, but the reality is that the Dirks and Duncans of the league are much rarer than guys like Kawhi or Lebron or Dwight, who decline or move on for any variety of reasons.  So I wouldn't feel comfortable penciling in any one of those guys for an extended run with a single franchise that lasts longer than Giannis' prime.

Except, you know, Tatum, along with Brown, are 2-1 in the playoffs versus Giannis led teams already, are younger than Giannis and not in their prime and they could have a run with Boston equaled to Giannis' prime.

[keevsnick]

Right now I think Giannis is still probably a better player than Tatum, but if I'm starting a franchise I'd take Tatum.

For one thing he's younger and plays more than Giannis does, but the main reason is his skill set allows you to build the team pretty much any way you want. You can go with a high usage guard and play Tatum off ball. Tatum isn't an elite distributor, he needs to get much better in that department, but he's good enough to run offense through as the ball handler. You can go with any kind of center next to him, rim running, shooting, ect. Giannis needs a little more of a specific mix next to him to make a team work (although when it works, IT WORKS).

Now let me sit back and watch as Giannis makes this post look stupid.

[jpotter33]

Right now I think Giannis is still probably a better player than Tatum, but if I'm starting a franchise I'd take Tatum.

For one thing he's younger and plays more than Giannis does, but the main reason is his skill set allows you to build the team pretty much any way you want. You can go with a high usage guard and play Tatum off ball. Tatum isn't an elite distributor, he needs to get much better in that department, but he's good enough to run offense through as the ball handler. You can go with any kind of center next to him, rim running, shooting, ect. Giannis needs a little more of a specific mix next to him to make a team work (although when it works, IT WORKS).

Now let me sit back and watch as Giannis makes this post look stupid.

Yeah, this is pretty much where I am. I think you probably can’t go wrong with any of Tatum, Giannis, or Doncic with Ja, Embiid, and Jokic in the 1B category. But as a starting point, JT is just so versatile and can play with anyone.

Something that Scal has been saying recently is really important here. Unlike the other elite players like Giannis and Luka, Tatum really doesn’t have a significant, exploitable area of weakness. Giannis isn’t a shooter, so you can exploit that somewhat defensively. That’s why we’ve had so much success against him over the years given our scheming and use of Al. Doncic on the other hand is a below average defender and can be picked on defensively.

Tatum doesn’t have an exploitable weak area like that. While not quite the passer or playmaker as the others, he’s developed that area enough to be good at it where it’s not something that he can be exploited with. He’s also clearly the best shooter of the bunch and arguably the best outright and most efficient scorer of the bunch, too.

Lastly, I think JT’s health, durability, and overall skill-based game puts him over the top. Luka has already shown that he may not be the most durable long-term, even with his game not be predicated on explosiveness or athleticism. Alternatively, Giannis is highly reliant on his athleticism and size, and unless he develops a more skilled shot, he’ll peak and fall relatively early due to an over reliance on his athleticism.

So, yeah, I’m comfortable with taking JT over the others.

[slamtheking]

I still can't get over someone actually selecting Markkanen

[Atzar]

Right now I think Giannis is still probably a better player than Tatum, but if I'm starting a franchise I'd take Tatum.

For one thing he's younger and plays more than Giannis does, but the main reason is his skill set allows you to build the team pretty much any way you want. You can go with a high usage guard and play Tatum off ball. Tatum isn't an elite distributor, he needs to get much better in that department, but he's good enough to run offense through as the ball handler. You can go with any kind of center next to him, rim running, shooting, ect. Giannis needs a little more of a specific mix next to him to make a team work (although when it works, IT WORKS).

Now let me sit back and watch as Giannis makes this post look stupid.

I think the difficulty of building around Giannis is a bit overstated.  Shooting isn't really in short supply in the league nowadays outside of the LOLakers, so I don't think it's hard to surround him with guys who give him the space he needs to dominate the paint.  And his defensive ability can fit in anywhere. 

I do appreciate the argument that Tatum can play with nearly anybody, though.  And in my opinion that does give him a leg up on Doncic, who I'm beginning to believe is difficult for a lot of guys to play with.  There don't appear to be any major holes left in Tatum's game at either end, and he's able to adapt his game to fit the skillsets of his teammates which is something that Doncic hasn't figured out yet. 

Tangent here, but imagine Smart playing next to Doncic offensively.  He'd suck, because Doncic tries to do everything himself and Smart would be stuck as a catch-and-shoot guy which isn't his game.  Tatum's versatility lets Smart play with the ball in his hands and run the offense, which is something he can contribute to the team at a high level.  That adaptability began to click for Tatum in the second half last season, and he has hit the ground running again this year. 

[Vermont Green]

I still can't get over someone actually selecting Markkanen

There was no post supporting that pick so I suspect it may be someone just being sarcastic.  His name came up in the Tatum MVP thread so I stuck him on the list, just to see.  In my mind, Markkanen is not in the same class as the others on the list.  All the others got at least 1 5ht place vote last season or realistically could get a vote this season.  Markkanen has never gotten a vote and I doubt he will this season.

[slamtheking]

I still can't get over someone actually selecting Markkanen

There was no post supporting that pick so I suspect it may be someone just being sarcastic.  His name came up in the Tatum MVP thread so I stuck him on the list, just to see.  In my mind, Markkanen is not in the same class as the others on the list.  All the others got at least 1 5ht place vote last season or realistically could get a vote this season.  Markkanen has never gotten a vote and I doubt he will this season.

Celticsstrong - where sarcasm goes to die

[Who]

I think on more reflection if I had free reign as a GM I might pick Jokic tbh, just because I love bigs with elite playmaking.

He might be my second choice, before Doncic or Tatum.  He's having a down year so far compared to his prior two seasons, but the on/off numbers for Denver are remarkable.

I got Jokic as my #2 too. Tough call between Jokic and Doncic for me. I felt it was easier to work around Luka's bad D than Jokic's bad D. That was the tie-breaker.

Then I got Tatum vs Giannis for 3rd place. And 4th place.

[ETNCeltics]

I see a # of posts saying Jokic is having a down season, but not really if you look at the #s.

61% from the field, 88% FT, his 3 % is down a little, but he's only taking 2 per game. He's taking almost 5 fewer shots per game than he did the previous 2 years. His scoring and rebounding are down because Denver has a healthy Porter and Murray, KCP added to the mix, and he's playing a little less.

When I think of building a franchise, I think next 10 years, even though with salary rules, we're always looking at 4-5 year windows at most. Taking a guy to build around, I'd automatically exclude Jokic, Embiid, and maybe even Freak. Big guys don't stay healthy as long. Winning in the NBA is based on wings and guards, not big men. Any of those guys going to still be elite at 33? 35? Giannis maybe, because he's a freak of nature.

IMO, Freak is the best player in the league, but I'd take Luka or Tatum if I could have my pick of one guy. 10 years from now, Tatum and Luka will still be near the top of the league, barring misfortune. I have my doubts about the others.   

[boscel33]

Tough question. And whenever such a tough question comes up I go to the default correct answer for all these type questions.

Larry Bird.

Amen Nick

But for this exercise, I'm going with KAT.  A big who can play D, shoot the three, and rebound.  His career numbers are better than Jokic and Giannis, so yeah, KAT is the guy.