Author Topic: NFL 2022 Season  (Read 182958 times)

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Re: NFL 2022 Season
« Reply #210 on: September 30, 2022, 08:25:29 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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What is the connection that people are making between Tua's apparent wooziness last week and his injury last night?

If it's that Tua may have been concussed last week, and that made a concussion more likely this week due to repetitive injury, fair enough.  There's science behind that, but there also needs to be evidence that he was actually concussed last week.

But, are people suggesting that they play last night that caused the injury was somehow caused by Tua's lack of awareness or was some other result of the prior injury?  If so, I'm not seeing it.  Tua looked completely sharp last night, until he got whipped to the ground.


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Re: NFL 2022 Season
« Reply #211 on: September 30, 2022, 08:33:02 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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What is the connection that people are making between Tua's apparent wooziness last week and his injury last night?

If it's that Tua may have been concussed last week, and that made a concussion more likely this week due to repetitive injury, fair enough.  There's science behind that, but there also needs to be evidence that he was actually concussed last week.

But, are people suggesting that they play last night that caused the injury was somehow caused by Tua's lack of awareness or was some other result of the prior injury?  If so, I'm not seeing it.  Tua looked completely sharp last night, until he got whipped to the ground.

I think the issue is that people thinking its a sham of a protocol and Tua shouldn't even have been cleared to play last night to begin with. 

It really stems from the league letting him go back in the game last Sunday and the circumstances that allowed that.  How did Tua get clearance so fast?


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Re: NFL 2022 Season
« Reply #212 on: September 30, 2022, 08:34:49 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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What is the connection that people are making between Tua's apparent wooziness last week and his injury last night?

If it's that Tua may have been concussed last week, and that made a concussion more likely this week due to repetitive injury, fair enough.  There's science behind that, but there also needs to be evidence that he was actually concussed last week.

But, are people suggesting that they play last night that caused the injury was somehow caused by Tua's lack of awareness or was some other result of the prior injury?  If so, I'm not seeing it.  Tua looked completely sharp last night, until he got whipped to the ground.

The evidence is in your own statement. His reaction last week does look like a concussion to many. Athletes and teams have lied about concussions before so many including myself don't take a team's word for it when we see that kind of reaction.

You can look sharp and feel well after a concussion then a light or a motion can bring back symptoms. This is why they have a two* week protocol and not when you feel good.

Re: NFL 2022 Season
« Reply #213 on: September 30, 2022, 08:37:05 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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What is the connection that people are making between Tua's apparent wooziness last week and his injury last night?

If it's that Tua may have been concussed last week, and that made a concussion more likely this week due to repetitive injury, fair enough.  There's science behind that, but there also needs to be evidence that he was actually concussed last week.

But, are people suggesting that they play last night that caused the injury was somehow caused by Tua's lack of awareness or was some other result of the prior injury?  If so, I'm not seeing it.  Tua looked completely sharp last night, until he got whipped to the ground.

I think the issue is that people thinking its a sham of a protocol and Tua shouldn't even have been cleared to play last night to begin with. 

It really stems from the league letting him go back in the game last Sunday and the circumstances that allowed that.  How did Tua get clearance so fast?

Exactly.  Last week he demonstrated concussion symptoms AND was originally reported to have a head injury.  Then 20 minutes later he was fine?  And then he has severe neurological symptoms last night after another (admittedly vicious) hit.  It’s the entire set of facts.

Re: NFL 2022 Season
« Reply #214 on: September 30, 2022, 08:39:11 AM »

Online Moranis

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What is the connection that people are making between Tua's apparent wooziness last week and his injury last night?

If it's that Tua may have been concussed last week, and that made a concussion more likely this week due to repetitive injury, fair enough.  There's science behind that, but there also needs to be evidence that he was actually concussed last week.

But, are people suggesting that they play last night that caused the injury was somehow caused by Tua's lack of awareness or was some other result of the prior injury?  If so, I'm not seeing it.  Tua looked completely sharp last night, until he got whipped to the ground.

I think the issue is that people thinking its a sham of a protocol and Tua shouldn't even have been cleared to play last night to begin with. 

It really stems from the league letting him go back in the game last Sunday and the circumstances that allowed that.  How did Tua get clearance so fast?
Because he wasn't concussed.  At least according to the doctor's that examined him that game. 

Again, I just have a hard time not believing the Dolphins when they say he went through everything, was cleared by the independent neurologist, and it was determined he had a back, not head, injury. Because that is so easy to verify.  Now if it turns out some of that isn't true, then the hammer should be thrown at the Dolphins, people should lose their jobs, etc.
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Re: NFL 2022 Season
« Reply #215 on: September 30, 2022, 08:45:37 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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What is the connection that people are making between Tua's apparent wooziness last week and his injury last night?

If it's that Tua may have been concussed last week, and that made a concussion more likely this week due to repetitive injury, fair enough.  There's science behind that, but there also needs to be evidence that he was actually concussed last week.

But, are people suggesting that they play last night that caused the injury was somehow caused by Tua's lack of awareness or was some other result of the prior injury?  If so, I'm not seeing it.  Tua looked completely sharp last night, until he got whipped to the ground.

The evidence is in your own statement. His reaction last week does look like a concussion to many. Athletes and teams have lied about concussions before so many including myself don't take a team's word for it when we see that kind of reaction.

You can look sharp and feel well after a concussion then a light or a motion can bring back symptoms. This is why they have a two* week protocol and not when you feel good.

So, did the Dolphins violate the protocols are they're written, or the protocols as they should be?

If not only team doctors (who have an ethical obligation to their patient, although that gets shady), but also an independent physician and Tua himself say that he's good to go, do we automatically assume that they're all wrong?  If a guy is unsteady on his feet, are people arguing that he should be automatically out two weeks?

Honestly, my reaction about what should change in light of that hit wasn't the concussion protocols.  It was Thursday Night Football itself.  There probably shouldn't be games with only three days of preparation in between.


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Re: NFL 2022 Season
« Reply #216 on: September 30, 2022, 10:06:00 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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What is the connection that people are making between Tua's apparent wooziness last week and his injury last night?

If it's that Tua may have been concussed last week, and that made a concussion more likely this week due to repetitive injury, fair enough.  There's science behind that, but there also needs to be evidence that he was actually concussed last week.

But, are people suggesting that they play last night that caused the injury was somehow caused by Tua's lack of awareness or was some other result of the prior injury?  If so, I'm not seeing it.  Tua looked completely sharp last night, until he got whipped to the ground.

The evidence is in your own statement. His reaction last week does look like a concussion to many. Athletes and teams have lied about concussions before so many including myself don't take a team's word for it when we see that kind of reaction.

You can look sharp and feel well after a concussion then a light or a motion can bring back symptoms. This is why they have a two* week protocol and not when you feel good.

So, did the Dolphins violate the protocols are they're written, or the protocols as they should be?

If not only team doctors (who have an ethical obligation to their patient, although that gets shady), but also an independent physician and Tua himself say that he's good to go, do we automatically assume that they're all wrong?  If a guy is unsteady on his feet, are people arguing that he should be automatically out two weeks?

Honestly, my reaction about what should change in light of that hit wasn't the concussion protocols.  It was Thursday Night Football itself.  There probably shouldn't be games with only three days of preparation in between.

I don’t believe what the Dolphins coach is saying. Sounds like the NFLPA is going to investigate. Per the NY Post:

Tagovailoa underwent concussion evaluations at halftime during Sunday’s game. The team initially listed the quarterback as questionable to return due to a head injury, but later said it was a back injury that caused him to stumble on the field.

Sounds shady to me.
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Re: NFL 2022 Season
« Reply #217 on: September 30, 2022, 10:08:44 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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What is the connection that people are making between Tua's apparent wooziness last week and his injury last night?

If it's that Tua may have been concussed last week, and that made a concussion more likely this week due to repetitive injury, fair enough.  There's science behind that, but there also needs to be evidence that he was actually concussed last week.

But, are people suggesting that they play last night that caused the injury was somehow caused by Tua's lack of awareness or was some other result of the prior injury?  If so, I'm not seeing it.  Tua looked completely sharp last night, until he got whipped to the ground.

The evidence is in your own statement. His reaction last week does look like a concussion to many. Athletes and teams have lied about concussions before so many including myself don't take a team's word for it when we see that kind of reaction.

You can look sharp and feel well after a concussion then a light or a motion can bring back symptoms. This is why they have a two* week protocol and not when you feel good.

So, did the Dolphins violate the protocols are they're written, or the protocols as they should be?

If not only team doctors (who have an ethical obligation to their patient, although that gets shady), but also an independent physician and Tua himself say that he's good to go, do we automatically assume that they're all wrong?  If a guy is unsteady on his feet, are people arguing that he should be automatically out two weeks?

Honestly, my reaction about what should change in light of that hit wasn't the concussion protocols.  It was Thursday Night Football itself.  There probably shouldn't be games with only three days of preparation in between.

I absolutely believe they violated the protocols as written.  The Players Association did too, which is why they immediately and publicly called for further investigation.  He was announced, by the Dolphins, as having had a head injury, and then proceeded to re-enter the game on Sunday.  They then changed it to a back injury so they wouldn't have to go through the entire concussion protocol this week, because clearly someone stumbling while holding his head has no reason to be evaluated for a concussion.

There are heaps of stories of team doctors not living up to their ethical obligations.  Decades of them.  It's also not the first time an "independent" doctor would have been questioned, if he was even brought into the discussion before the team said "nope, not a head injury after all, nothing to see here."  And given Tua suffered a potential head injury, it really shouldn't be put on him at all to self-evaluate his readiness for play.

Honestly, I stopped watching the NFL years ago in part because of the head injuries.  I was starting to get back into it this season, but nope, I'm out.  It's a deadly farce.

Re: NFL 2022 Season
« Reply #218 on: September 30, 2022, 10:18:42 AM »

Offline johnnygreen

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I didn't see Tua's injury last night, but I did see the hit against Buffalo on Sunday. There was no way that wasn't a head injury (concussion) last week. He should have never been allowed to play last night.

If Tua never plays again because of what happened last night, it may lead to the biggest lawsuit of a player versus a league in history.

Re: NFL 2022 Season
« Reply #219 on: September 30, 2022, 10:27:11 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I didn't see Tua's injury last night, but I did see the hit against Buffalo on Sunday. There was no way that wasn't a head injury (concussion) last week. He should have never been allowed to play last night.

If Tua never plays again because of what happened last night, it may lead to the biggest lawsuit of a player versus a league in history.

How do you prove it was a concussion?

He was examined by team doctors, who determined it wasn't a concussion.  He was examined by a neutral doctor, who determined it wasn't a concussion.  He had the opportunity to refuse to play.  He had the opportunity to be evaluated by doctors selected by himself, his agent or the NFLPA during the week.  He declined to do so.

I know that we all think that we're smarter than the experts doing these things in real time, but liability requires more than "that looked bad".  He was wobbly after taking a hit.  That doesn't automatically mean "concussion". 


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Re: NFL 2022 Season
« Reply #220 on: September 30, 2022, 11:14:07 AM »

Offline blink

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Just another q about this play, why wasn’t the def lineman from the bengals flagged for roughing the passer?  The play Tia got injured on seemed worse than the play before that got flagged for roughing the passer.  Was that play completely clean?  Can you just whiplash a QB onto his head and that is a clean play?   

Re: NFL 2022 Season
« Reply #221 on: September 30, 2022, 12:37:04 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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What is the connection that people are making between Tua's apparent wooziness last week and his injury last night?

If it's that Tua may have been concussed last week, and that made a concussion more likely this week due to repetitive injury, fair enough.  There's science behind that, but there also needs to be evidence that he was actually concussed last week.

But, are people suggesting that they play last night that caused the injury was somehow caused by Tua's lack of awareness or was some other result of the prior injury?  If so, I'm not seeing it.  Tua looked completely sharp last night, until he got whipped to the ground.

It’s the first part Roy. And it was not just a few fringe fans suggesting he had a concussion, nflpa opened an investigation into how the first incident was handled.

Re: NFL 2022 Season
« Reply #222 on: September 30, 2022, 12:39:31 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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What is the connection that people are making between Tua's apparent wooziness last week and his injury last night?

If it's that Tua may have been concussed last week, and that made a concussion more likely this week due to repetitive injury, fair enough.  There's science behind that, but there also needs to be evidence that he was actually concussed last week.

But, are people suggesting that they play last night that caused the injury was somehow caused by Tua's lack of awareness or was some other result of the prior injury?  If so, I'm not seeing it.  Tua looked completely sharp last night, until he got whipped to the ground.

It’s the first part Roy. And it was not just a few fringe fans suggesting he had a concussion, nflpa opened an investigation into how the first incident was handled.

An investigation is warranted.  Assuming guilt isn't, though, in my opinion. 


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Re: NFL 2022 Season
« Reply #223 on: September 30, 2022, 12:39:52 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

Quote
The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

Re: NFL 2022 Season
« Reply #224 on: September 30, 2022, 12:41:46 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

Quote
The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

Which of those folks have medical degrees and personally examined Tua?


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