Better than Giannis in my mind.  Much more skilled if not as overwhelming and athlete.

Yup,  better shooter, better passer. In my mind, Embiid is 2nd and Giannis is a distant 3rd.

I get why Jokic won, but I would have preferred it gone to Embiid. His team was tied for 2nd in the conference and he was without his 2nd best player for the majority of the year (and then the trade for Harden). Jokic was obviously also without his team's 2nd best player, but his team wasn't as good and they obviously never had a prayer at a Title. I get that Jokic was awesome this season - and I may have even pushed for him had he not won last season - but it just seems weird to give the MVP to a player whose team you know for certain will be ousted in the first round of the playoffs.

Yeah, but the Sixers and Bucks only won 2 more games than the Nuggets while Embiid’s 2 best teammates were better than anyone on Jokic’s team. That difference in wins isn’t significant in my mind.

Quote from: smokeablount on May 09, 2022, 09:38:34 AM

Quote from: jambr380 on May 09, 2022, 09:35:40 AM

I get why Jokic won, but I would have preferred it gone to Embiid. His team was tied for 2nd in the conference and he was without his 2nd best player for the majority of the year (and then the trade for Harden). Jokic was obviously also without his team's 2nd best player, but his team wasn't as good and they obviously never had a prayer at a Title. I get that Jokic was awesome this season - and I may have even pushed for him had he not won last season - but it just seems weird to give the MVP to a player whose team you know for certain will be ousted in the first round of the playoffs.

Yeah, but the Sixers and Bucks only won 2 more games than the Nuggets while Embiid’s 2 best teammates were better than anyone on Jokic’s team. That difference in wins isn’t significant in my mind.

Harris and Maxey are both better than Gordon?  That seems like a strange take to me

No, but Maxey and half a Harden are.

Giannis is the best player in the NBA. 

Jokic is a magnificent player, particularly on offense, but his team has won 50 games once.  If results matter, his team isn't any better than the George Karl Nuggets teams last decade.

I don’t see why 50 wins matters when Giannis got 51 playing with 2 all star caliber players and good depth and Jokic got 49 playing with scrubs and 1-2 fringe starters. Just because it’s an arbitrary round number?

Quote from: Roy H. on May 09, 2022, 10:08:11 AM

Giannis is the best player in the NBA. 

Jokic is a magnificent player, particularly on offense, but his team has won 50 games once.  If results matter, his team isn't any better than the George Karl Nuggets teams last decade.

I don’t see why 50 wins matters when Giannis got 51 playing with 2 all star caliber players and good depth and Jokic got 49 playing with scrubs and 1-2 fringe starters. Just because it’s an arbitrary round number?

He was talking historically.  Not just this season.  Though they were on a 50 win pace the last 2 seasons but they were shorter seasons, so I wouldn't exactly hold that against him.  That said, the Bucks had a 60 win (and would have had another) with Giannis (and those were pre-Jrue).  That is just a different level of winning. 

Defense matters and Jokic can't defend.  Jokic can't drive either.  If he gets the ball in his spot, he is uber effective, but he is far too reliant on others and doesn't have extreme dominance (like someone like Shaq in his prime) to just overwhelm a team.  He can be taken out and his effectiveness neutralized because he doesn't have the well rounded offensive skills that the all time greats have (and he can't make up for by dominating defensively, and as we saw in the GS series when they went small, they just blitzed the Nuggets off the court because he couldn't defend them nor make them pay on the other end).  Jokic is an excellent player, but he isn't in the same class as Giannis.  Giannis is just a tier above everyone else right now and barring injury almost certainly will be for the next 5 or so years. 

Well deserved. Talant-wise, I consider him the best player in the world the last couple of years. He hasn't won a ring, but it's not his fault that the Nuggets are depleted by injuries.

Man I’ve come to realize very people on this forum regularly watch the nuggets. I went to about 20 of their games this season and Their supporting cast is absolutely atrocious. Aaron Gordon had one of the better seasons of his career, but was at 15 6 and 3 with below average 3 point shooting. Monte Morris and will Barton are very average players (neither would start for us). 35 year old jeff green was probably their 5th best player. Their bench has guys like rivers, campazzo and cousins that are completely fringe NBA players.

Yeah. Jokic’s teammates make Embiid’s teammates look like an all star team and Giannis’s teammates look like the Dream Team. If either of those guys won 60 games I may feel differently, but not with a difference of only 2 wins.

If the Giannis/Embiid crowd is consistent and thinks late 80’s Isaiah Thomas was better than late 80s Michael Jordan because of team wins and post season success, then ok, I can see your logic. Otherwise, Jokic deserved it.