Smart vs. Curry: Good Hustle, Or Dangerous Play?

[footey]

The beauty of Marcus' game is that he more than any other player acts on instinct.  See the ball, dive for the ball.  No time to decide whether or not it could be dangerous to another player.  You don't do cost/benefit analysis if you're wired like Marcus Smart. 

For Kerr to call the play "dangerous" is coach speak nonsense.  It's not like Marcus shoved a player in the air to prevent him from finishing. That is a dangerous play (see Gordon Hayward injury). 

[footey]

It is both.  It was good hustle and it was dangerous.  Dangerous does not mean dirty.  It was not dirty.  It was perfectly within the rules, but it is pretty clearly dangerous to be diving at people's legs.

He wasn't "diving at people's legs." He was diving to grab a loose ball.  That is what instinctive players like Smart do. 

Every decision a basketball player makes is potentially "dangerous", which renders this term meaningless, really.  Isn't it "dangerous" to try to take a charge?  Or to attempt to block a shot?  Or to try to dunk over another player?  In a game this fast, with players this athletic, "danger" is lurking around every corner of play. 

[jpotter33]

I've seen a couple of morons who's advocating to ban the dive for loose balls. As if the league isn't soft enough already

Sports in general have made a lot of rule changes recently to make the sports more safe.  I can totally see how that could gain some momentum as we've seen time and time again players get hurt when another player dives for a ball and makes contact with their lower legs.  Curry is just the latest example of it.  The league should be looking at making the game safer and if that means making it a foul if you contact with someone diving for a ball, then maybe that should be considered.  Maybe it is even a flagrant.  If you want to dive for a ball, then maybe you should have to make sure you don't ram into someone when doing it.

That’s just silly.  It’s a loose ball.  Should we eliminate rebounding?  That’s easily as dangerous, probably more, than diving for a loose ball on the floor.  You can catch elbows in the face and land on feet.

You shouldn’t make a rule change based on low-occurrence events (diving for loose ball injuries).

Agreed.

If going down that route, you might as well ban jumping, too. That’s led to more injuries than any other movement in the NBA (ala Hayward), so logically that’s consistent with a no-dive rule.

Of course that’s all non-sense. And the fact that several GS players also said it wasn’t dirty or anything should end this debate. Think most of this controversy comes from the fact that they all just got healthy. It’s unfortunate, but it happens to every team, as it’s a contact sport.

[jpotter33]

And good for both Ime and Brad (especially Ime) for supporting Marcus and saying their complaining is ridiculous.

[td450]

The beauty of Marcus' game is that he more than any other player acts on instinct.  See the ball, dive for the ball.  No time to decide whether or not it could be dangerous to another player.  You don't do cost/benefit analysis if you're wired like Marcus Smart. 

For Kerr to call the play "dangerous" is coach speak nonsense.  It's not like Marcus shoved a player in the air to prevent him from finishing. That is a dangerous play (see Gordon Hayward injury).

I don't understand this analysis at all. Marcus wins these type of plays because he always goes to the floor without hesitation through the path of the ball. That's technique. He does it the same way every time. He's not just reacting instinctually. Good coaches teach that. I was taught that too.

Curry lost and got hurt because he tried to pick the ball up while standing up.

[nickagneta]

The guy who has been coaching Draymond Green for years is complaining about an opponent's hustle play being a dirty play? That's ironically comical.

[RJD1974]

First play was unfortunate but happened more because Curry is a bit soft in his approach to the loose ball. As for why he was iunjured, I did a freeze frame on the shoes that he was wearing last night and they have exposed ankle with minimal support which I'd imagine help's him when when needs to run around screens all game but do little to prevent injuries in 50/50 situation. I don't think most players in Curry's position with proper footwear would have walked away with an injury there.




https://www.whatproswear.com/basketball/steph-curry/shoes/steph-currys-curry-flow-9-shoes-by-under-armour/

Seems like a football player running around without a helmet complaining about the defensive player when he gets a concussion.

The second play was reckless and correctly penalized. Smart should try to play more within himself but it was also neither intentional nor dirty and would have been forgotten without the first play.

Just wanted to take a moment to point out that Curry wears heavy-duty braces on both his ankles due to his past injury history. Therefore, it matters not how much ankle support the sneakers offer.

[Moranis]

I've seen a couple of morons who's advocating to ban the dive for loose balls. As if the league isn't soft enough already

Sports in general have made a lot of rule changes recently to make the sports more safe.  I can totally see how that could gain some momentum as we've seen time and time again players get hurt when another player dives for a ball and makes contact with their lower legs.  Curry is just the latest example of it.  The league should be looking at making the game safer and if that means making it a foul if you contact with someone diving for a ball, then maybe that should be considered.  Maybe it is even a flagrant.  If you want to dive for a ball, then maybe you should have to make sure you don't ram into someone when doing it.

That’s just silly.  It’s a loose ball.  Should we eliminate rebounding?  That’s easily as dangerous, probably more, than diving for a loose ball on the floor.  You can catch elbows in the face and land on feet.

You shouldn’t make a rule change based on low-occurrence events (diving for loose ball injuries).

If it is a low occurrence event, but with a higher rate of injury, then that is exactly the type of play that you can at least consider eliminating.  Smart dove from behind Curry and landed on the back of his ankle.  It wasn't dirty, but it was dangerous in large part because Curry wasn't expecting someone to come flying at his legs from behind.  The dangerous nature of that sort of thing is why chop blocks are illegal in football.  There are what 1 or 2 dives a game at most and many of them there is no contact, but when contact is made there are a disproportionate amount of injuries.  Curry is just the latest example.  Nassir Little nearly took out Kyrie a couple of months ago diving after a ball.  Lebron's ankle injury last season was a result of Solomon Hill diving to the floor after the ball and rolling up on Lebron's ankle from behind.  Lots of other players have suffered similar injuries.  Rare play but a high level of injury, seems like the type of thing that could be eliminated.

[nickagneta]

Basketball, when played at its best, at its highest level, is a very physical game. And much like in other highly physical games like football and hockey, the physicality even when playing within the rules, sometimes causes injuries. You simply can not make illegal all parts of the game that are physical simply to stop the possibility of injuries.

Blocking and tackling in football is a physical part of the game that can cause injury. Checking in hockey is a physical part of the game that can cause injury. Yes, there are very blatant types of these acts that are against the rules set in place to prevent injury, but they are easily seen and easy to enforce

Diving for loose balls is a physical part of basketball that can cause injury. And I believe there are very blatant forms of this act that can easily be seen and punished with flagrant fouls. It doesn't happen often, it's extremely rare, but it does happen and is punished.

Last night's game was an example of a clean dive for the ball that got someone injured. It happens. It's part of the game because it's a physical game. Trying to eliminate this part of the game is not in the best interest in how to teach the game, develop players or increase the enjoyment to watch the game.

Injuries are part of the game as they are in every physical sport. You play these games the "right" way and injuries are still going to happen. As a player and coach, you have to understand this and just live with it.

There is no reason to outlaw this portion of the game. It's a passionate play that can change momentum and alter the direction of a game. These plays are essential to basketball. You do not make them against the rules of the game.

[Celtics2021]

I've seen a couple of morons who's advocating to ban the dive for loose balls. As if the league isn't soft enough already

Sports in general have made a lot of rule changes recently to make the sports more safe.  I can totally see how that could gain some momentum as we've seen time and time again players get hurt when another player dives for a ball and makes contact with their lower legs.  Curry is just the latest example of it.  The league should be looking at making the game safer and if that means making it a foul if you contact with someone diving for a ball, then maybe that should be considered.  Maybe it is even a flagrant.  If you want to dive for a ball, then maybe you should have to make sure you don't ram into someone when doing it.

That’s just silly.  It’s a loose ball.  Should we eliminate rebounding?  That’s easily as dangerous, probably more, than diving for a loose ball on the floor.  You can catch elbows in the face and land on feet.

You shouldn’t make a rule change based on low-occurrence events (diving for loose ball injuries).

If it is a low occurrence event, but with a higher rate of injury, then that is exactly the type of play that you can at least consider eliminating.  Smart dove from behind Curry and landed on the back of his ankle.  It wasn't dirty, but it was dangerous in large part because Curry wasn't expecting someone to come flying at his legs from behind.  The dangerous nature of that sort of thing is why chop blocks are illegal in football.  There are what 1 or 2 dives a game at most and many of them there is no contact, but when contact is made there are a disproportionate amount of injuries.  Curry is just the latest example.  Nassir Little nearly took out Kyrie a couple of months ago diving after a ball.  Lebron's ankle injury last season was a result of Solomon Hill diving to the floor after the ball and rolling up on Lebron's ankle from behind.  Lots of other players have suffered similar injuries.  Rare play but a high level of injury, seems like the type of thing that could be eliminated.

Who says it's a higher rate of injury, or high enough to matter?  The Celtics have recovered 445 loose balls this season, and have certainly dove for many more without getting the recovery.  One guy has gotten hurt?  How often do players get any kind of significant injury for it to matter?  A couple times per season, on several thousand occurrences?  That's not a rule that needs changing.

[Moranis]

Basketball, when played at its best, at its highest level, is a very physical game. And much like in other highly physical games like football and hockey, the physicality even when playing within the rules, sometimes causes injuries. You simply can not make illegal all parts of the game that are physical simply to stop the possibility of injuries.

Blocking and tackling in football is a physical part of the game that can cause injury. Checking in hockey is a physical part of the game that can cause injury. Yes, there are very blatant types of these acts that are against the rules set in place to prevent injury, but they are easily seen and easy to enforce

Diving for loose balls is a physical part of basketball that can cause injury. And I believe there are very blatant forms of this act that can easily be seen and punished with flagrant fouls. It doesn't happen often, it's extremely rare, but it does happen and is punished.

Last night's game was an example of a clean dive for the ball that got someone injured. It happens. It's part of the game because it's a physical game. Trying to eliminate this part of the game is not in the best interest in how to teach the game, develop players or increase the enjoyment to watch the game.

Injuries are part of the game as they are in every physical sport. You play these games the "right" way and injuries are still going to happen. As a player and coach, you have to understand this and just live with it.

There is no reason to outlaw this portion of the game. It's a passionate play that can change momentum and alter the direction of a game. These plays are essential to basketball. You do not make them against the rules of the game.

In the last several years the NFL has outlawed chop blocks, low hits to the QB, hits to the head, etc. in a means to make the sport safer.  Banning a guy from diving into the legs of another player doesn't actually seem controversial to me.  It seems to be the more prudent thing as playoffs have been ruined by that sort of pretty easily preventable injury.  Curry probably doesn't play again until the post season and who knows just how injured he is even when he comes back.  The Warriors season could be lost because Marcus Smart dove for a loose ball and landed on Curry's ankle. 

[nickagneta]

Basketball, when played at its best, at its highest level, is a very physical game. And much like in other highly physical games like football and hockey, the physicality even when playing within the rules, sometimes causes injuries. You simply can not make illegal all parts of the game that are physical simply to stop the possibility of injuries.

Blocking and tackling in football is a physical part of the game that can cause injury. Checking in hockey is a physical part of the game that can cause injury. Yes, there are very blatant types of these acts that are against the rules set in place to prevent injury, but they are easily seen and easy to enforce

Diving for loose balls is a physical part of basketball that can cause injury. And I believe there are very blatant forms of this act that can easily be seen and punished with flagrant fouls. It doesn't happen often, it's extremely rare, but it does happen and is punished.

Last night's game was an example of a clean dive for the ball that got someone injured. It happens. It's part of the game because it's a physical game. Trying to eliminate this part of the game is not in the best interest in how to teach the game, develop players or increase the enjoyment to watch the game.

Injuries are part of the game as they are in every physical sport. You play these games the "right" way and injuries are still going to happen. As a player and coach, you have to understand this and just live with it.

There is no reason to outlaw this portion of the game. It's a passionate play that can change momentum and alter the direction of a game. These plays are essential to basketball. You do not make them against the rules of the game.

In the last several years the NFL has outlawed chop blocks, low hits to the QB, hits to the head, etc. in a means to make the sport safer.  Banning a guy from diving into the legs of another player doesn't actually seem controversial to me.  It seems to be the more prudent thing as playoffs have been ruined by that sort of pretty easily preventable injury.  Curry probably doesn't play again until the post season and who knows just how injured he is even when he comes back.  The Warriors season could be lost because Marcus Smart dove for a loose ball and landed on Curry's ankle.

Oh well. Curry got hurt on a hustle play that very rarely ever results in injuries. It's part of the game. Deal with it GSW.

[todd_days_41]

the ONLY reason why this is a being discussed is:

• it happened to be Steph Curry who was hurt, the face of the modern NBA (for better or worse)
• Draymond Green had a microphone after the game

if Smart had rolled on Gary Payton II's ankle, would this even be a discussion?

[footey]

Basketball, when played at its best, at its highest level, is a very physical game. And much like in other highly physical games like football and hockey, the physicality even when playing within the rules, sometimes causes injuries. You simply can not make illegal all parts of the game that are physical simply to stop the possibility of injuries.

Blocking and tackling in football is a physical part of the game that can cause injury. Checking in hockey is a physical part of the game that can cause injury. Yes, there are very blatant types of these acts that are against the rules set in place to prevent injury, but they are easily seen and easy to enforce

Diving for loose balls is a physical part of basketball that can cause injury. And I believe there are very blatant forms of this act that can easily be seen and punished with flagrant fouls. It doesn't happen often, it's extremely rare, but it does happen and is punished.

Last night's game was an example of a clean dive for the ball that got someone injured. It happens. It's part of the game because it's a physical game. Trying to eliminate this part of the game is not in the best interest in how to teach the game, develop players or increase the enjoyment to watch the game.

Injuries are part of the game as they are in every physical sport. You play these games the "right" way and injuries are still going to happen. As a player and coach, you have to understand this and just live with it.

There is no reason to outlaw this portion of the game. It's a passionate play that can change momentum and alter the direction of a game. These plays are essential to basketball. You do not make them against the rules of the game.

In the last several years the NFL has outlawed chop blocks, low hits to the QB, hits to the head, etc. in a means to make the sport safer.  Banning a guy from diving into the legs of another player doesn't actually seem controversial to me.  It seems to be the more prudent thing as playoffs have been ruined by that sort of pretty easily preventable injury.  Curry probably doesn't play again until the post season and who knows just how injured he is even when he comes back.  The Warriors season could be lost because Marcus Smart dove for a loose ball and landed on Curry's ankle.

Gordon Hayward was out for an entire season following a slight shove from Crowder (and possibly) Lebron James, and has never been the same player. I don't recall you advocating a rule change when that happened. Why now?  That shove was intentional and more dangerous than Smart's, yet players do it a lot, and still do.  We see it almost every time a guy goes up. 

You keep misrepresenting the facts of what happened last night. Smart did not "dive into" Curry's leg. That implies an intent to hurt his leg, which is absurd.  He dove for the ball, not for Curry's leg; his momentum caused him to fall on Curry's foot.  For Curry, wrong place, wrong time.  **** happens.

To advocate a rule change that penalizes a player for hustling/diving for loose balls would be one of the worst suggestions I have seen come across this board, or any other, in a long time.   We need to see more plays like this, not ban them.  A freak injury is unfortunate, but these guys assume serious injury every time they step on the floor.

Just ask Gordon Hayward.

[gouki88]

It's only a conversation because Curry is a darling of the NBA and has a history of ankle/foot troubles. That, and Smart isn't exactly an ESPN favourite.

If Draymond does this and Grant Williams got hurt nobody would care at all.