Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap

[Moranis]

Basketball intelligence is often underrated. Derek Fisher’s value wasn’t his shooting (he was better than White right now), or his passing, or defense - not one thing stood out dramatically.

But he tended to always be making the right play - the right pass, the key box out, the right defensive rotation, etc.

That’s not measured in the box score. Then, what’s his vibe with the team? Does he need the ball (Richardson could sit on the ball and was a slow decision maker). White does need the ball, doesn’t demand it, he understands the team hierarchy and strategy, buys into and executes it efficiently every night.

He hasn’t wowed anyone on the offensive shooting side of the ball (hopefully that changes) but he tends to make all the right plays nearly all the time - super valuable.

the more this thread is fermenting, the more i feel like this fisher comparison makes so much sense.

who else fits that mold - shane battier i guess, maybe boris diaw, bruce bowen...perk

rarer in guards

Chuck Hayes was a good one brought up earlier.

The issue is though, those guys by and large are role players not paid more than the MLE and that don't cost useful players and a 1st round pick, and a pick swap to acquire.  You expect more than that for what you paid to acquire the player and what you are paying him salary wise. 

The reason Horford isn't on the Sixers isn't because he was washed, it was that he couldn't play with Embiid and you can't pay your back-up center the salary Horford was commanding.  The Sixers thought he'd be able to play with Embiid, but neither was as effective playing with the other. 

White is a smart fine player, but you'd expect more than a smart fine player for what you paid and what you are paying.

[Roy H.]

Basketball intelligence is often underrated. Derek Fisher’s value wasn’t his shooting (he was better than White right now), or his passing, or defense - not one thing stood out dramatically.

But he tended to always be making the right play - the right pass, the key box out, the right defensive rotation, etc.

That’s not measured in the box score. Then, what’s his vibe with the team? Does he need the ball (Richardson could sit on the ball and was a slow decision maker). White does need the ball, doesn’t demand it, he understands the team hierarchy and strategy, buys into and executes it efficiently every night.

He hasn’t wowed anyone on the offensive shooting side of the ball (hopefully that changes) but he tends to make all the right plays nearly all the time - super valuable.

the more this thread is fermenting, the more i feel like this fisher comparison makes so much sense.

who else fits that mold - shane battier i guess, maybe boris diaw, bruce bowen...perk

rarer in guards

Chuck Hayes was a good one brought up earlier.

The clearest example in my opinion is Andre Iguodala.  He never averaged more than 7.8 points with GSW, but he was one of the most impactful players in the NBA.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Basketball intelligence is often underrated. Derek Fisher’s value wasn’t his shooting (he was better than White right now), or his passing, or defense - not one thing stood out dramatically.

But he tended to always be making the right play - the right pass, the key box out, the right defensive rotation, etc.

That’s not measured in the box score. Then, what’s his vibe with the team? Does he need the ball (Richardson could sit on the ball and was a slow decision maker). White does need the ball, doesn’t demand it, he understands the team hierarchy and strategy, buys into and executes it efficiently every night.

He hasn’t wowed anyone on the offensive shooting side of the ball (hopefully that changes) but he tends to make all the right plays nearly all the time - super valuable.

the more this thread is fermenting, the more i feel like this fisher comparison makes so much sense.

who else fits that mold - shane battier i guess, maybe boris diaw, bruce bowen...perk

rarer in guards

Chuck Hayes was a good one brought up earlier.

The clearest example in my opinion is Andre Iguodala.  He never averaged more than 7.8 points with GSW, but he was one of the most impactful players in the NBA.

Ben Simmons if he comes back

Michael Kidd Gilchrist was supposed to be that guy too.

[gouki88]

Basketball intelligence is often underrated. Derek Fisher’s value wasn’t his shooting (he was better than White right now), or his passing, or defense - not one thing stood out dramatically.

But he tended to always be making the right play - the right pass, the key box out, the right defensive rotation, etc.

That’s not measured in the box score. Then, what’s his vibe with the team? Does he need the ball (Richardson could sit on the ball and was a slow decision maker). White does need the ball, doesn’t demand it, he understands the team hierarchy and strategy, buys into and executes it efficiently every night.

He hasn’t wowed anyone on the offensive shooting side of the ball (hopefully that changes) but he tends to make all the right plays nearly all the time - super valuable.

the more this thread is fermenting, the more i feel like this fisher comparison makes so much sense.

who else fits that mold - shane battier i guess, maybe boris diaw, bruce bowen...perk

rarer in guards

Chuck Hayes was a good one brought up earlier.

The clearest example in my opinion is Andre Iguodala.  He never averaged more than 7.8 points with GSW, but he was one of the most impactful players in the NBA.

Good call.

Also, in response to Moranis - Derek Fisher, Shane Battier and Chuck Hayes were all marginally over the MLE. Andre Iguodala, who I like as the most accurate comparison, commanded much more than the MLE for years beyond being an All-Star.

[Sophomore]

Basketball intelligence is often underrated. Derek Fisher’s value wasn’t his shooting (he was better than White right now), or his passing, or defense - not one thing stood out dramatically.

But he tended to always be making the right play - the right pass, the key box out, the right defensive rotation, etc.

That’s not measured in the box score. Then, what’s his vibe with the team? Does he need the ball (Richardson could sit on the ball and was a slow decision maker). White does need the ball, doesn’t demand it, he understands the team hierarchy and strategy, buys into and executes it efficiently every night.

He hasn’t wowed anyone on the offensive shooting side of the ball (hopefully that changes) but he tends to make all the right plays nearly all the time - super valuable.

the more this thread is fermenting, the more i feel like this fisher comparison makes so much sense.

who else fits that mold - shane battier i guess, maybe boris diaw, bruce bowen...perk

rarer in guards

Chuck Hayes was a good one brought up earlier.

The issue is though, those guys by and large are role players not paid more than the MLE and that don't cost useful players and a 1st round pick, and a pick swap to acquire.  You expect more than that for what you paid to acquire the player and what you are paying him salary wise. 

The reason Horford isn't on the Sixers isn't because he was washed, it was that he couldn't play with Embiid and you can't pay your back-up center the salary Horford was commanding.  The Sixers thought he'd be able to play with Embiid, but neither was as effective playing with the other. 

White is a smart fine player, but you'd expect more than a smart fine player for what you paid and what you are paying.

Price of this trade isn’t set yet. If our record is better than the spurs in 6, the pick swap costs us nothing. We do know this year’s first round pick was 25th. Some value there was not much better than a high 2d round pick. Romeo isn’t a useful player yet, as confirmed by the fact he didn’t play for the spurs. (Availability is an ability.)

Brad gave the spurs Josh Richardson and three scratch tickets.   

[pokeKingCurtis]

Basketball intelligence is often underrated. Derek Fisher’s value wasn’t his shooting (he was better than White right now), or his passing, or defense - not one thing stood out dramatically.

But he tended to always be making the right play - the right pass, the key box out, the right defensive rotation, etc.

That’s not measured in the box score. Then, what’s his vibe with the team? Does he need the ball (Richardson could sit on the ball and was a slow decision maker). White does need the ball, doesn’t demand it, he understands the team hierarchy and strategy, buys into and executes it efficiently every night.

He hasn’t wowed anyone on the offensive shooting side of the ball (hopefully that changes) but he tends to make all the right plays nearly all the time - super valuable.

the more this thread is fermenting, the more i feel like this fisher comparison makes so much sense.

who else fits that mold - shane battier i guess, maybe boris diaw, bruce bowen...perk

rarer in guards

Chuck Hayes was a good one brought up earlier.

The issue is though, those guys by and large are role players not paid more than the MLE and that don't cost useful players and a 1st round pick, and a pick swap to acquire.  You expect more than that for what you paid to acquire the player and what you are paying him salary wise. 

The reason Horford isn't on the Sixers isn't because he was washed, it was that he couldn't play with Embiid and you can't pay your back-up center the salary Horford was commanding.  The Sixers thought he'd be able to play with Embiid, but neither was as effective playing with the other. 

White is a smart fine player, but you'd expect more than a smart fine player for what you paid and what you are paying.

Price of this trade isn’t set yet. If our record is better than the spurs in 6, the pick swap costs us nothing. We do know this year’s first round pick was 25th. Some value there was not much better than a high 2d round pick. Romeo isn’t a useful player yet, as confirmed by the fact he didn’t play for the spurs. (Availability is an ability.)

Brad gave the spurs Josh Richardson and three scratch tickets.

Nice analogy.

Josh Richardson is also kind of a lease too, to extend that analogy somehow/somewhat.

[GetLucky]

Basketball intelligence is often underrated. Derek Fisher’s value wasn’t his shooting (he was better than White right now), or his passing, or defense - not one thing stood out dramatically.

But he tended to always be making the right play - the right pass, the key box out, the right defensive rotation, etc.

That’s not measured in the box score. Then, what’s his vibe with the team? Does he need the ball (Richardson could sit on the ball and was a slow decision maker). White does need the ball, doesn’t demand it, he understands the team hierarchy and strategy, buys into and executes it efficiently every night.

He hasn’t wowed anyone on the offensive shooting side of the ball (hopefully that changes) but he tends to make all the right plays nearly all the time - super valuable.

the more this thread is fermenting, the more i feel like this fisher comparison makes so much sense.

who else fits that mold - shane battier i guess, maybe boris diaw, bruce bowen...perk

rarer in guards

Chuck Hayes was a good one brought up earlier.

The clearest example in my opinion is Andre Iguodala.  He never averaged more than 7.8 points with GSW, but he was one of the most impactful players in the NBA.

Good call.

Also, in response to Moranis - Derek Fisher, Shane Battier and Chuck Hayes were all marginally over the MLE. Andre Iguodala, who I like as the most accurate comparison, commanded much more than the MLE for years beyond being an All-Star.

I like the Iggy comparison for this reason: White has already proven himself capable of being a non-exploitable closing lineup piece (ie top 5 available player) against the defending champs and the "most talented duo" in the NBA, two of the most mismatch-seeking teams of all time. Does he have the ceiling of shutting down prime LeBron? No, but for 1.5x the MLE, guys like White are who push you over the edge to become a championship team.

Even max guys like Kemba and Kyrie don't have this capacity, which I would argue is of paramount importance for a defense-first team like the Celtics, although they make up for it on offense. I don't have any confidence that Josh Richardson would have been a capable, net neutral to net positive, playoff defender. He just played too small and wasn't a confident ball handler in space.

[Moranis]

Basketball intelligence is often underrated. Derek Fisher’s value wasn’t his shooting (he was better than White right now), or his passing, or defense - not one thing stood out dramatically.

But he tended to always be making the right play - the right pass, the key box out, the right defensive rotation, etc.

That’s not measured in the box score. Then, what’s his vibe with the team? Does he need the ball (Richardson could sit on the ball and was a slow decision maker). White does need the ball, doesn’t demand it, he understands the team hierarchy and strategy, buys into and executes it efficiently every night.

He hasn’t wowed anyone on the offensive shooting side of the ball (hopefully that changes) but he tends to make all the right plays nearly all the time - super valuable.

the more this thread is fermenting, the more i feel like this fisher comparison makes so much sense.

who else fits that mold - shane battier i guess, maybe boris diaw, bruce bowen...perk

rarer in guards

Chuck Hayes was a good one brought up earlier.

The clearest example in my opinion is Andre Iguodala.  He never averaged more than 7.8 points with GSW, but he was one of the most impactful players in the NBA.

Good call.

Also, in response to Moranis - Derek Fisher, Shane Battier and Chuck Hayes were all marginally over the MLE. Andre Iguodala, who I like as the most accurate comparison, commanded much more than the MLE for years beyond being an All-Star.

Hayes was never more than the MLE.  I dont think Fishers was either.  Battier signed a 6 year extension with Memphis in 2005 that started at 4.9 million, which was below the 5 million MLE limit.  So I don't think he did either, though he may have hard larger extensions so perhaps it was slightly more during certain years

[Roy H.]

Basketball intelligence is often underrated. Derek Fisher’s value wasn’t his shooting (he was better than White right now), or his passing, or defense - not one thing stood out dramatically.

But he tended to always be making the right play - the right pass, the key box out, the right defensive rotation, etc.

That’s not measured in the box score. Then, what’s his vibe with the team? Does he need the ball (Richardson could sit on the ball and was a slow decision maker). White does need the ball, doesn’t demand it, he understands the team hierarchy and strategy, buys into and executes it efficiently every night.

He hasn’t wowed anyone on the offensive shooting side of the ball (hopefully that changes) but he tends to make all the right plays nearly all the time - super valuable.

the more this thread is fermenting, the more i feel like this fisher comparison makes so much sense.

who else fits that mold - shane battier i guess, maybe boris diaw, bruce bowen...perk

rarer in guards

Chuck Hayes was a good one brought up earlier.

The clearest example in my opinion is Andre Iguodala.  He never averaged more than 7.8 points with GSW, but he was one of the most impactful players in the NBA.

Good call.

Also, in response to Moranis - Derek Fisher, Shane Battier and Chuck Hayes were all marginally over the MLE. Andre Iguodala, who I like as the most accurate comparison, commanded much more than the MLE for years beyond being an All-Star.

Hayes was never more than the MLE.  I dont think Fishers was either.  Battier signed a 6 year extension with Memphis in 2005 that started at 4.9 million, which was below the 5 million MLE limit.  So I don't think he did either, though he may have hard larger extensions so perhaps it was slightly more during certain years

Looking it up, goukii was right:  all three were above the MLE, marginally so.

But, Iguodala got paid.  That's partially because he was better than those players, and because at his height he was all-star caliber.  But, I think he's what we hope for from White. 

I'm not sure how much you watched Iggy back in his prime.  He's exactly what we want from White:  passing, defense, and a high level of intelligence.  He and Jrue Holiday have been my favorite non-Celtics for a long time.  He may be the *only* player I fully buy into the "giant impact without it showing in the boxscore" argument.  He's the one guy where I could sort of see where ESPN was coming from with their RPM stat.  generally had Iguodala near the top of the league for SFs / SGs, ahead of even Durant.  If you want to be bored to tears, but also informed, go read some of my writeups on him in the CB Draft / DKC. 

Now, White doesn't have the height or athleticism of Iguodala, so that's a limiting factor.  But, he can easily do the same kinds of things and be a highly, highly valuable role player.  A top-75 player, even, if he grows his game and gets more comfortable.

[Kernewek]

Basketball intelligence is often underrated. Derek Fisher’s value wasn’t his shooting (he was better than White right now), or his passing, or defense - not one thing stood out dramatically.

But he tended to always be making the right play - the right pass, the key box out, the right defensive rotation, etc.

That’s not measured in the box score. Then, what’s his vibe with the team? Does he need the ball (Richardson could sit on the ball and was a slow decision maker). White does need the ball, doesn’t demand it, he understands the team hierarchy and strategy, buys into and executes it efficiently every night.

He hasn’t wowed anyone on the offensive shooting side of the ball (hopefully that changes) but he tends to make all the right plays nearly all the time - super valuable.

the more this thread is fermenting, the more i feel like this fisher comparison makes so much sense.

who else fits that mold - shane battier i guess, maybe boris diaw, bruce bowen...perk

rarer in guards

Chuck Hayes was a good one brought up earlier.

The clearest example in my opinion is Andre Iguodala.  He never averaged more than 7.8 points with GSW, but he was one of the most impactful players in the NBA.

Good call.

Also, in response to Moranis - Derek Fisher, Shane Battier and Chuck Hayes were all marginally over the MLE. Andre Iguodala, who I like as the most accurate comparison, commanded much more than the MLE for years beyond being an All-Star.

Hayes was never more than the MLE.  I dont think Fishers was either.  Battier signed a 6 year extension with Memphis in 2005 that started at 4.9 million, which was below the 5 million MLE limit.  So I don't think he did either, though he may have hard larger extensions so perhaps it was slightly more during certain years

Looking it up, goukii was right:  all three were above the MLE, marginally so.

But, Iguodala got paid.  That's partially because he was better than those players, and because at his height he was all-star caliber.  But, I think he's what we hope for from White. 

I'm not sure how much you watched Iggy back in his prime.  He's exactly what we want from White:  passing, defense, and a high level of intelligence.  He and Jrue Holiday have been my favorite non-Celtics for a long time.  He may be the *only* player I fully buy into the "giant impact without it showing in the boxscore" argument.  He's the one guy where I could sort of see where ESPN was coming from with their RPM stat.  generally had Iguodala near the top of the league for SFs / SGs, ahead of even Durant.  If you want to be bored to tears, but also informed, go read some of my writeups on him in the CB Draft / DKC. 

Now, White doesn't have the height or athleticism of Iguodala, so that's a limiting factor.  But, he can easily do the same kinds of things and be a highly, highly valuable role player.  A top-75 player, even, if he grows his game and gets more comfortable.

Agreed on the Iggy comp but I would add that I don't think White is on the level of prime Iguodala. I don't think he could/would have been the best guy on those post-Iverson Sixers teams, for example.

I do think he's a better comparison because of his play and also because as C's fans we've likely seen a lot more of him over the years (as a collective) than some of the other guys.

[Moranis]

Basketball intelligence is often underrated. Derek Fisher’s value wasn’t his shooting (he was better than White right now), or his passing, or defense - not one thing stood out dramatically.

But he tended to always be making the right play - the right pass, the key box out, the right defensive rotation, etc.

That’s not measured in the box score. Then, what’s his vibe with the team? Does he need the ball (Richardson could sit on the ball and was a slow decision maker). White does need the ball, doesn’t demand it, he understands the team hierarchy and strategy, buys into and executes it efficiently every night.

He hasn’t wowed anyone on the offensive shooting side of the ball (hopefully that changes) but he tends to make all the right plays nearly all the time - super valuable.

the more this thread is fermenting, the more i feel like this fisher comparison makes so much sense.

who else fits that mold - shane battier i guess, maybe boris diaw, bruce bowen...perk

rarer in guards

Chuck Hayes was a good one brought up earlier.

The clearest example in my opinion is Andre Iguodala.  He never averaged more than 7.8 points with GSW, but he was one of the most impactful players in the NBA.

Good call.

Also, in response to Moranis - Derek Fisher, Shane Battier and Chuck Hayes were all marginally over the MLE. Andre Iguodala, who I like as the most accurate comparison, commanded much more than the MLE for years beyond being an All-Star.

Hayes was never more than the MLE.  I dont think Fishers was either.  Battier signed a 6 year extension with Memphis in 2005 that started at 4.9 million, which was below the 5 million MLE limit.  So I don't think he did either, though he may have hard larger extensions so perhaps it was slightly more during certain years

Looking it up, goukii was right:  all three were above the MLE, marginally so.

But, Iguodala got paid.  That's partially because he was better than those players, and because at his height he was all-star caliber.  But, I think he's what we hope for from White. 

I'm not sure how much you watched Iggy back in his prime.  He's exactly what we want from White:  passing, defense, and a high level of intelligence.  He and Jrue Holiday have been my favorite non-Celtics for a long time.  He may be the *only* player I fully buy into the "giant impact without it showing in the boxscore" argument.  He's the one guy where I could sort of see where ESPN was coming from with their RPM stat.  generally had Iguodala near the top of the league for SFs / SGs, ahead of even Durant.  If you want to be bored to tears, but also informed, go read some of my writeups on him in the CB Draft / DKC. 

Now, White doesn't have the height or athleticism of Iguodala, so that's a limiting factor.  But, he can easily do the same kinds of things and be a highly, highly valuable role player.  A top-75 player, even, if he grows his game and gets more comfortable.

Derek Fisher signed with the Warriors for the MLE after the 04 season.  His starting salary that first season was 4.903 million which was exactly the MLE for the 2004-2005 season.  It bumped up about 500k a year and was 6.3739 million during the 07-08 season, which was more than the starting salary for the MLE that season, but the contract he signed was absolutely a contract for the MLE (and after that 08 season he was no where near the MLE). 

I believe that is also the case for Battier.  That because of raises an individual year might have been more than that season's starting MLE, but like Fisher, he signed a MLE contract. 

I had to look again on Hayes.  It appears that Hayes had originally signed for the MLE with the Kings, but had the deal voided after a failed physical.  Once he was cleared again (about a month later), the Kings upped the total contract by about 1 million over 4 years (to smooth things over), so it was in fact slightly above the MLE.

Either way, those guys weren't signing contracts for nearly double the MLE.  Nor did their teams give up useful assets to acquire them.  That is the point I was making.  When you are paying someone the salary that White is being paid, you expect more production than you are getting.  For the role White is playing on Boston he is absolutely overpaid, especially when you consider the acquisition cost.  If Boston wins a title, who cares, but if the Bucks win tonight and then close Boston out, I do think it will start to be more of a question on the value.  You can't pay your 6th man double the MLE for very long.  It just isn't financially viable. 

[Roy H.]

You can't pay your 6th man double the MLE for very long.  It just isn't financially viable.

It depends on who the Sixth Man is.

You certainly could pay prime Andre Iguodala double the MLE, even if his counting stats aren't there.  The Heat can pay Tyler Herro that amount, with much better counting stats.  If the Cavs had Kevin Love at $18 million, that would be viable.  Cam Johnson, Luke Kennard, Bogdanovic...  None would kill a team at double the MLE, and arguably they've earned it.

[Moranis]

You can't pay your 6th man double the MLE for very long.  It just isn't financially viable.

It depends on who the Sixth Man is.

You certainly could pay prime Andre Iguodala double the MLE, even if his counting stats aren't there.  The Heat can pay Tyler Herro that amount, with much better counting stats.  If the Cavs had Kevin Love at $18 million, that would be viable.  Cam Johnson, Luke Kennard, Bogdanovic...  None would kill a team at double the MLE, and arguably they've earned it.

I just disagree with this.  Sure the Warriors could pay Iggy, but that was when the salary cap was having exponential leaps year over year.  I don't think they could have paid him that contract for very long without the huge salary cap increase.  The Cavs have a bunch of guys on rookie contracts, but when they have to pay the starters, they can't pay a bench player like Kevin Love, double the MLE.  That is why I said very long, not that you couldn't do it here or there, but not for long.  The Suns aren't going to keep Cam Johnson as a 6th man for long once they are paying Ayton a max (along with Booker, Paul, and Bridges big contracts). 

It is a question of value.  The reason Horford isn't on the Sixers still, is they couldn't pay their back-up center what Horford was making (he is obviously more than double the MLE, but a similar concept) and Horford and Embiid were both not as effective playing together.  Horford played very well in the games Embiid was out or when he was on the floor without Embiid, that just wasn't enough time to justify the contract from a value perspective. 

[Vermont Green]

I don't have a problem with White's contract.  Contracts are never entirely fair but here is how he stacks up against other non-star Celtics

Smart     $17.2M
White      $16.9M
RWill       $10.7M

On the Celtics, White will likely not be a starter but he is a starter level player (he has started 159 of his 263 NBA games).  RWill is probably the bargain in this but his durability issues brought his value down.

And I think it is hard to go back and compare White's contract to what Derek Fisher got 18 years ago in 2004.  I feel White can play to this contract, we'll see.

[Roy H.]

You can't pay your 6th man double the MLE for very long.  It just isn't financially viable.

It depends on who the Sixth Man is.

You certainly could pay prime Andre Iguodala double the MLE, even if his counting stats aren't there.  The Heat can pay Tyler Herro that amount, with much better counting stats.  If the Cavs had Kevin Love at $18 million, that would be viable.  Cam Johnson, Luke Kennard, Bogdanovic...  None would kill a team at double the MLE, and arguably they've earned it.

I just disagree with this.  Sure the Warriors could pay Iggy, but that was when the salary cap was having exponential leaps year over year.  I don't think they could have paid him that contract for very long without the huge salary cap increase.  The Cavs have a bunch of guys on rookie contracts, but when they have to pay the starters, they can't pay a bench player like Kevin Love, double the MLE.  That is why I said very long, not that you couldn't do it here or there, but not for long.  The Suns aren't going to keep Cam Johnson as a 6th man for long once they are paying Ayton a max (along with Booker, Paul, and Bridges big contracts). 

It is a question of value.  The reason Horford isn't on the Sixers still, is they couldn't pay their back-up center what Horford was making (he is obviously more than double the MLE, but a similar concept) and Horford and Embiid were both not as effective playing together.  Horford played very well in the games Embiid was out or when he was on the floor without Embiid, that just wasn't enough time to justify the contract from a value perspective.

I mean, it's a cost / benefit argument.

Iguodala was a top-4 player on the Warriors, despite his stats.  They paid him because he was a key piece of a championship-caliber team.  In his last year in GS, they made the Finals.  The following year, they traded him, because the Warriors felt they were no longer contenders and didn't want to pay luxury tax on an aging player.  But, Miami did, and he was a key rotation player on a team that again made the Finals.

Teams shouldn't pay for very high-end role players if they're not near contention and they're up against the tax, sure.  But, if a team is maximizing its chances of winning a title, those types of guys are extremely helpful.

This discussion isn't in a vacuum, though.  Wyc says he'll pay tax for a contender.  If he's being truthful, we can safely keep White and even add additional pieces.  If he's lying, then maybe White is a luxury we can't afford due to cheap ownership.