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Author Topic: Trade Idea: Massive TPE and better bench for Horford  (Read 2532 times)

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Trade Idea: Massive TPE and better bench for Horford
« on: February 10, 2022, 12:33:30 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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Toronto gets: Al Horford, a little cash

Orlando gets: Goran Dragic, Bruno Fernando, Houston 2023 2nd, maybe a little cash

Celtics get: Chris Boucher, Terrence Ross, Robin Lopez, $27 million TPE

In this trade, the Celtics absorb three players with their existing TPEs.  This leaves them with a $27 million TPE to use over the next year.

Why for Toronto: Horford is better than Boucher for them, since they need a center more than another athletic PF.  Dragic is deadweight for them.  They add a small enough amount of salary to avoid the tax unless some bonuses are hit (in which case they’re over the tax anyway so they’re probably moving a minimum salary player.

Why for Orlando:  They get a decent second for Ross, who’s seemingly on the block every year and never gets moved.  Lopez is otherwise a buyout candidate.

Why for Boston: Losing Al is tough, but Boucher is a solid option at PF, and he comes with Bird rights.  Ross is better than Nesmith and  Romeo, so that’s an improvement to the bench, giving an actual 9th man, and Lopez is better than Freedom (who’d hopefully just be cut if not traded).  He’s owed money next year, but less than Horford’s partial guarantee.  And a $27 million TPE that lasts until next deadline gives the team an enormous amount of flexibility over the next year.  They also drop under the luxury tax by enough that Jaylen can be added to the All-Star game and it won’t hurt.
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Re: Trade Idea: Massive TPE and better bench for Horford
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2022, 08:13:17 AM »

Offline hodgy03038

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Okay do it. I approve.
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Re: Trade Idea: Massive TPE and better bench for Horford
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2022, 08:57:42 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I don't like this one.  We take a hit to our starting lineup for three guys who aren't very good.

I guess the reality is, I'm just not that excited about TPEs anymore.  If there were off the record discussions about what we were going to do with that TPE (i.e., add a player like Brogdon, etc.) I'd feel better.
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Re: Trade Idea: Massive TPE and better bench for Horford
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2022, 09:13:12 AM »

Offline Rikibellevie

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No for me.
_I know we are the champion to get TPE, mostly for nothing or the illusions of Fournier. We already have Fournier TPE which is a must use this summer.
_ Horford can be use in a trade  this summer without needing TPE. If we use TPE for a ST or player in a bad team that is rebuilding they won't take care to pay 14M to cut Hordord. If we pair with multiple first/assets ...
_ Our starting 5 really looks good. Don't create again instability when we look for first in 2 season to find some stability.
_ Hordord experience still is important. I don't wait him to be inpactfull off in PO, but his defense and his voice  are important.
_ Don't reinforce the Raptors. They look good. There lack of big may cost them big in PO
_ Boucher is a nice backup, Ross not that much. Even if without loosing Horford I ould be very happu to have them.
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Re: Trade Idea: Massive TPE and better bench for Horford
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2022, 09:17:43 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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Quote from: Roy H. on February 10, 2022, 08:57:42 AM
I don't like this one.  We take a hit to our starting lineup for three guys who aren't very good.

I guess the reality is, I'm just not that excited about TPEs anymore.  If there were off the record discussions about what we were going to do with that TPE (i.e., add a player like Brogdon, etc.) I'd feel better.

I think you’re underrating Boucher, personally if you consider him not very good.  He’s a better shot blocker and offensive rebounder while being a similar shooter and defensive rebounder.  I think the most likely team to say no is Toronto because they’d rather have Boucher than Al, and my hope is they’d like the fit of Al more than Boucher, since that would let them move Siakam to the 4.

As for the TPE, the list of players who are often considered available and targeted by this board that make more than the Fournier exception but less than $27 million is decently sized.  Collins, Brogdon, Grant, Barnes, Hield, Randle, maybe others.  Send out a little salary to stay under the hard cap and you can use it to sign someone like Ayton in a S&T.  The difference between $17 million and $27 million is getting a starter vs. someone who could really be a #3 next to Tatum and Brown.
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Re: Trade Idea: Massive TPE and better bench for Horford
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2022, 09:22:23 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote from: Celtics2021 on February 10, 2022, 09:17:43 AM
Quote from: Roy H. on February 10, 2022, 08:57:42 AM
I don't like this one.  We take a hit to our starting lineup for three guys who aren't very good.

I guess the reality is, I'm just not that excited about TPEs anymore.  If there were off the record discussions about what we were going to do with that TPE (i.e., add a player like Brogdon, etc.) I'd feel better.

I think you’re underrating Boucher, personally if you consider him not very good.  He’s a better shot blocker and offensive rebounder while being a similar shooter and defensive rebounder.  I think the most likely team to say no is Toronto because they’d rather have Boucher than Al, and my hope is they’d like the fit of Al more than Boucher, since that would let them move Siakam to the 4.

As for the TPE, the list of players who are often considered available and targeted by this board that make more than the Fournier exception but less than $27 million is decently sized.  Collins, Brogdon, Grant, Barnes, Hield, Randle, maybe others.  Send out a little salary to stay under the hard cap and you can use it to sign someone like Ayton in a S&T.  The difference between $17 million and $27 million is getting a starter vs. someone who could really be a #3 next to Tatum and Brown.

I hear you on the TPE, theoretically.  But, this is basically a repeat of the Hayward TPE, for which we got...  three months of Fournier and a smaller TPE.  The cost?  6 second rounders, if I'm remembering correctly (2 seconds for the Hayward TPE, two seconds for Fournier, two seconds in the S&T with NYK.  Or was the last trade only 1?)
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Re: Trade Idea: Massive TPE and better bench for Horford
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2022, 09:34:40 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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Quote from: Roy H. on February 10, 2022, 09:22:23 AM
Quote from: Celtics2021 on February 10, 2022, 09:17:43 AM
Quote from: Roy H. on February 10, 2022, 08:57:42 AM
I don't like this one.  We take a hit to our starting lineup for three guys who aren't very good.

I guess the reality is, I'm just not that excited about TPEs anymore.  If there were off the record discussions about what we were going to do with that TPE (i.e., add a player like Brogdon, etc.) I'd feel better.

I think you’re underrating Boucher, personally if you consider him not very good.  He’s a better shot blocker and offensive rebounder while being a similar shooter and defensive rebounder.  I think the most likely team to say no is Toronto because they’d rather have Boucher than Al, and my hope is they’d like the fit of Al more than Boucher, since that would let them move Siakam to the 4.

As for the TPE, the list of players who are often considered available and targeted by this board that make more than the Fournier exception but less than $27 million is decently sized.  Collins, Brogdon, Grant, Barnes, Hield, Randle, maybe others.  Send out a little salary to stay under the hard cap and you can use it to sign someone like Ayton in a S&T.  The difference between $17 million and $27 million is getting a starter vs. someone who could really be a #3 next to Tatum and Brown.

I hear you on the TPE, theoretically.  But, this is basically a repeat of the Hayward TPE, for which we got...  three months of Fournier and a smaller TPE.  The cost?  6 second rounders, if I'm remembering correctly (2 seconds for the Hayward TPE, two seconds for Fournier, two seconds in the S&T with NYK.  Or was the last trade only 1?)

The advantage of this TPE, relative to the Hayward TPE, would be its duration.  The Hayward one limited because the Celtics got the TPE and then proceeded to hard cap themselves for Tristan Thompson.  It made no sense to do that — it meant the Celtics would have two days in the start of the following free agency to have the entire TPE available to them.  With this one, the C’s would have it for all of draft night, free agency, and until the next deadline.

And splitting the Hayward TPE to acquire Fournier was an extra bit of stupid.  If the Celtics hadn’t done that, they could have gotten a Kemba-sized TPE when they acquired Horford.  That Fournier trade was terrible, and was the move of a GM who knew he was on the way out and wanted to do something.  Getting this TPE for Al would be righting the ship a bit from that oddly shortsighted decision by Ainge.
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