Lebron James out, further treatment on knee

[Moranis]

To be fair, Lebron just turned 37.  He still has plenty of life left in the legs. Ha.

Lebron is tied with Embiid 0.2 ppg behind Durant for the league lead in ppg.  He is tied for 10th in spg, 17th in apg, 20th in bpg, and 35th in rpg.  No other player in the entire league is in the top 35 for all 5 categories and only Jokic and Harden (barely) are in the top 50 in all 5.  Lebron is also tied with Tatum for 4th in mpg.

You don't go performing at that level to being a role player over night without a major injury.  Now Lebron is clearly going to get banged up more often and take more time to recover, that comes with age, but we've seen very little on the floor to indicate he isn't still a top 5 player in the world right now.  Nor have we seen anything that would indicate that he won't still perform at a high level for the next couple of seasons.  At least when he is healthy enough to play.  That is of course the rub.  How healthy is Lebron going to be?  No one can predict that, but he'd absolutely be worth the gamble for any team with championship designs over the next couple of seasons, which is why the Lakers would never trade him even if he was open to it.  And that is on the court, let alone of the off the court stuff he brings as well as how close he is to Kareem's regular season points record.  The jersey he is in when he breaks that record will forever be known and is great free marketing.

[PAOBoston]

Knees are weird. We should know. KG hurt his knee once and was literally never the same after that.

[LilRip]

Lebron’s still a beast. Doesn’t he always take a mid season break? Anyway, time will catch up to him eventually but his IQ is so high that he can have an impact even when his athleticism is limited.

If the Lakers are going to shut him down for the season tho, they might as well tank this year and save those legs. I wouldn’t mind if C’s shut down Tatum and/or Brown after the allstar break and played the young guys more. Getting a top 10 pick would really help with the talent deficiency in this squad

[Roy H.]

Lebron’s still a beast. Doesn’t he always take a mid season break? Anyway, time will catch up to him eventually but his IQ is so high that he can have an impact even when his athleticism is limited.

If the Lakers are going to shut him down for the season tho, they might as well tank this year and save those legs. I wouldn’t mind if C’s shut down Tatum and/or Brown after the allstar break and played the young guys more. Getting a top 10 pick would really help with the talent deficiency in this squad

I don't think the Lakers will tank, because New Orleans (or Memphis) owns their first rounder. 

[wdleehi]

Lebron is on a terrible team for his age.   He needs to be on a team that can stay afloat for the majority of the game and allow him to push them over the top in limited minutes (think what the Spurs did with Time Duncan)   

[Moranis]

Lebron’s still a beast. Doesn’t he always take a mid season break? Anyway, time will catch up to him eventually but his IQ is so high that he can have an impact even when his athleticism is limited.

If the Lakers are going to shut him down for the season tho, they might as well tank this year and save those legs. I wouldn’t mind if C’s shut down Tatum and/or Brown after the allstar break and played the young guys more. Getting a top 10 pick would really help with the talent deficiency in this squad

I don't think the Lakers will tank, because New Orleans (or Memphis) owns their first rounder.

Yep.  The Davis trade took away any tanking incentive for the Lakers.

[Celtics2021]

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I think a couple of you are piling dirt on Lebron's grave a little too soon.  Yes, he's 38.  Yes, he's finally showing mortality with injuries.

But, in terms of numbers:

29.1 ppg (4th best in his career)
.588 eFG% (5th best in career)
62.5% 2PT% (best in his career)
2.8 3PM (best in his career)
1.1 blocks (3rd best in his career)
3.1 turnovers (3rd lowest in his career)

He's above his career averages in rebounds, FT%, FG%.  His points per 36 minutes are the highest of his career.

I want to see this trade, haha:

BRK trades:  Harden
BRK receives:  Lebron

PHI trades: Simmons
PHI receives:  Harden

LAL trades:  Lebron
LAL receives:  Simmons

The clear winner there is Brooklyn, right?  I think so, because Lebron is still a superstar.  For the next three seasons, I suspect he'll still be a top five-ish player in the NBA (clearly behind only Giannis, Jokic, Embiid and Durant).

I'm not piling dirt, personally, but I don't think he's the player who can carry an otherwise abysmal team far in the playoffs any more.  He's not going to pull off some run like in 2017 where he got to the finals with the shell of Kevin Love and no one else.  He's not going pull an otherwise mediocre team to a 66-16 record and conference finals appearance like in the 2008-2009 season.  There are probably 10-12 teams where he could come in, be the best player, and elevate them to being a true championship contender for the next couple of years.  The Celtics are one of those teams.  The Lakers are not.  He's diminished from his greatness.  He is still great, but the Lakers this year need him to be about 10 years younger for them to really have a chance.

[tazzmaniac]

It will never happen, but if I were the Lakers GM, I'd trade Lebron while they can and rebuild around AD. Trade Lebron to the Sixers for Ben Simmons. Lebron's breaking down and will just leave to join whichever team drafts his son soon enough.

I think you could argue that Lebron will have more good/healthy seasons left than Davis has left.  Unlikely to happen of course, but not out of the realm of possibility either given just how injured Davis has been in his career.

Sure, but if you're building a team right now, building it around a 37 year old just doesn't make any sense, and that team no longer looks like a contender and already traded away all their picks and prospects.

True, but if they trade Lebron for something like Simmons, they aren't winning the title anytime soon anyway.  Lebron gives them a real shot at the title in the next couple.

Why couldn’t a team with simmons, ad and Westbrook or whatever else they get compete for the title. Simmons for Lebron would be a steal for the lakers, especially if Lebron is the process of breaking down.

Because AD has never shown himself to be a #1 star on a championship contender.  Because it would be difficult to form a championship contender with either Simmons or Westbrook.  Doing so with both would be near impossible.  They'd be a terrible fit together.   

Simmons for Lebron as a straight up trade would be a steal for the Sixers.  The Sixers are competing for #1 seed in the East now.  Pairing Lebron and Embiid would make them an absolute beast.

Depends on if Lebron is healthy for playoffs. If he isn’t and they get knocked out this year they probably never win a title with Embid. (Which is why they have been so careful to not take a crappy package back for Embid and want a star that is at least 5-6 years younger than Lebron.

The Sixers haven't been able to trade Simmons because no one is offering them a star of any age for him.  They'd be ecstatic if they could trade Simmons for Lebron.  There are a lot of rumors about them going after Harden in the offseason.  If I had to bet on whether Lebron or Harden would be the better player two years from now, I'd go with Lebron. 

[tazzmaniac]

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I think a couple of you are piling dirt on Lebron's grave a little too soon.  Yes, he's 38.  Yes, he's finally showing mortality with injuries.

But, in terms of numbers:

29.1 ppg (4th best in his career)
.588 eFG% (5th best in career)
62.5% 2PT% (best in his career)
2.8 3PM (best in his career)
1.1 blocks (3rd best in his career)
3.1 turnovers (3rd lowest in his career)

He's above his career averages in rebounds, FT%, FG%.  His points per 36 minutes are the highest of his career.

I want to see this trade, haha:

BRK trades:  Harden
BRK receives:  Lebron

PHI trades: Simmons
PHI receives:  Harden

LAL trades:  Lebron
LAL receives:  Simmons

The clear winner there is Brooklyn, right?  I think so, because Lebron is still a superstar.  For the next three seasons, I suspect he'll still be a top five-ish player in the NBA (clearly behind only Giannis, Jokic, Embiid and Durant).

I'm not piling dirt, personally, but I don't think he's the player who can carry an otherwise abysmal team far in the playoffs any more.  He's not going to pull off some run like in 2017 where he got to the finals with the shell of Kevin Love and no one else.  He's not going pull an otherwise mediocre team to a 66-16 record and conference finals appearance like in the 2008-2009 season.  There are probably 10-12 teams where he could come in, be the best player, and elevate them to being a true championship contender for the next couple of years.  The Celtics are one of those teams.  The Lakers are not.  He's diminished from his greatness.  He is still great, but the Lakers this year need him to be about 10 years younger for them to really have a chance.

You are correct that Lebron can't carry a team like he used to but no one else can either.  With Lebron and AD, the Lakers should be a championship contender.  The Westbrook trade has hamstrung them. 

[Roy H.]

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I think a couple of you are piling dirt on Lebron's grave a little too soon.  Yes, he's 38.  Yes, he's finally showing mortality with injuries.

But, in terms of numbers:

29.1 ppg (4th best in his career)
.588 eFG% (5th best in career)
62.5% 2PT% (best in his career)
2.8 3PM (best in his career)
1.1 blocks (3rd best in his career)
3.1 turnovers (3rd lowest in his career)

He's above his career averages in rebounds, FT%, FG%.  His points per 36 minutes are the highest of his career.

I want to see this trade, haha:

BRK trades:  Harden
BRK receives:  Lebron

PHI trades: Simmons
PHI receives:  Harden

LAL trades:  Lebron
LAL receives:  Simmons

The clear winner there is Brooklyn, right?  I think so, because Lebron is still a superstar.  For the next three seasons, I suspect he'll still be a top five-ish player in the NBA (clearly behind only Giannis, Jokic, Embiid and Durant).

I'm not piling dirt, personally, but I don't think he's the player who can carry an otherwise abysmal team far in the playoffs any more.  He's not going to pull off some run like in 2017 where he got to the finals with the shell of Kevin Love and no one else.  He's not going pull an otherwise mediocre team to a 66-16 record and conference finals appearance like in the 2008-2009 season.  There are probably 10-12 teams where he could come in, be the best player, and elevate them to being a true championship contender for the next couple of years.  The Celtics are one of those teams.  The Lakers are not.  He's diminished from his greatness.  He is still great, but the Lakers this year need him to be about 10 years younger for them to really have a chance.

As tazz says, can any player do that?  Hell, in NBA history there are only a handful who could.  In the past 40 years, you've got Bird, Duncan and Lebron who have carried bad / mediocre teams to 60 win seasons and championships.  Hakeem is in that conversation, Shaq too.  And that's pretty much it, in terms of players who have demonstrated the ability.

In terms of the top four or five players in the league, can any of Jokic, Giannis, Curry or Durant carry a bad team for extended stretch?  Results suggest otherwise.

I agree with you on the larger point:  Lebron is still an All-NBA player who would elevate any well-constructed team to contender status.

[Celtics2021]

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I think a couple of you are piling dirt on Lebron's grave a little too soon.  Yes, he's 38.  Yes, he's finally showing mortality with injuries.

But, in terms of numbers:

29.1 ppg (4th best in his career)
.588 eFG% (5th best in career)
62.5% 2PT% (best in his career)
2.8 3PM (best in his career)
1.1 blocks (3rd best in his career)
3.1 turnovers (3rd lowest in his career)

He's above his career averages in rebounds, FT%, FG%.  His points per 36 minutes are the highest of his career.

I want to see this trade, haha:

BRK trades:  Harden
BRK receives:  Lebron

PHI trades: Simmons
PHI receives:  Harden

LAL trades:  Lebron
LAL receives:  Simmons

The clear winner there is Brooklyn, right?  I think so, because Lebron is still a superstar.  For the next three seasons, I suspect he'll still be a top five-ish player in the NBA (clearly behind only Giannis, Jokic, Embiid and Durant).

I'm not piling dirt, personally, but I don't think he's the player who can carry an otherwise abysmal team far in the playoffs any more.  He's not going to pull off some run like in 2017 where he got to the finals with the shell of Kevin Love and no one else.  He's not going pull an otherwise mediocre team to a 66-16 record and conference finals appearance like in the 2008-2009 season.  There are probably 10-12 teams where he could come in, be the best player, and elevate them to being a true championship contender for the next couple of years.  The Celtics are one of those teams.  The Lakers are not.  He's diminished from his greatness.  He is still great, but the Lakers this year need him to be about 10 years younger for them to really have a chance.

As tazz says, can any player do that?  Hell, in NBA history there are only a handful who could.  In the past 40 years, you've got Bird, Duncan and Lebron who have carried bad / mediocre teams to 60 win seasons and championships.  Hakeem is in that conversation, Shaq too.  And that's pretty much it, in terms of players who have demonstrated the ability.

In terms of the top four or five players in the league, can any of Jokic, Giannis, Curry or Durant carry a bad team for extended stretch?  Results suggest otherwise.

I agree with you on the larger point:  Lebron is still an All-NBA player who would elevate any well-constructed team to contender status.

I think I must have left out a point I was trying to make.  LeBron can’t carry teams like he used to, but he’s still trying.  He’s playing nearly as many minutes per game as he did his last season in Cleveland, when he led the league in that.  But at 37, with injuries that are quickly mounting, I think this will hasten his demise.  He can’t go at the pace he used to, and the Lakers can’t survive if he doesn’t.

[celticsclay]

To be fair, Lebron just turned 37.  He still has plenty of life left in the legs. Ha.

Lebron is tied with Embiid 0.2 ppg behind Durant for the league lead in ppg.  He is tied for 10th in spg, 17th in apg, 20th in bpg, and 35th in rpg.  No other player in the entire league is in the top 35 for all 5 categories and only Jokic and Harden (barely) are in the top 50 in all 5.  Lebron is also tied with Tatum for 4th in mpg.

You don't go performing at that level to being a role player over night without a major injury.  Now Lebron is clearly going to get banged up more often and take more time to recover, that comes with age, but we've seen very little on the floor to indicate he isn't still a top 5 player in the world right now.  Nor have we seen anything that would indicate that he won't still perform at a high level for the next couple of seasons.  At least when he is healthy enough to play.  That is of course the rub.  How healthy is Lebron going to be?  No one can predict that, but he'd absolutely be worth the gamble for any team with championship designs over the next couple of seasons, which is why the Lakers would never trade him even if he was open to it.  And that is on the court, let alone of the off the court stuff he brings as well as how close he is to Kareem's regular season points record.  The jersey he is in when he breaks that record will forever be known and is great free marketing.

The whole premise of the discussion is that he may have a major injury. We literally watched this exact scenario with KG. He was clearly a top ten player and maybe even top 5. But he was older and had the injury and was never the same.

[Donoghus]

I said it last month & I'll say it again, this Lakers team is not sniffing the Finals.  No way.

[celticsclay]

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I think a couple of you are piling dirt on Lebron's grave a little too soon.  Yes, he's 38.  Yes, he's finally showing mortality with injuries.

But, in terms of numbers:

29.1 ppg (4th best in his career)
.588 eFG% (5th best in career)
62.5% 2PT% (best in his career)
2.8 3PM (best in his career)
1.1 blocks (3rd best in his career)
3.1 turnovers (3rd lowest in his career)

He's above his career averages in rebounds, FT%, FG%.  His points per 36 minutes are the highest of his career.

I want to see this trade, haha:

BRK trades:  Harden
BRK receives:  Lebron

PHI trades: Simmons
PHI receives:  Harden

LAL trades:  Lebron
LAL receives:  Simmons

The clear winner there is Brooklyn, right?  I think so, because Lebron is still a superstar.  For the next three seasons, I suspect he'll still be a top five-ish player in the NBA (clearly behind only Giannis, Jokic, Embiid and Durant).

I'm not piling dirt, personally, but I don't think he's the player who can carry an otherwise abysmal team far in the playoffs any more.  He's not going to pull off some run like in 2017 where he got to the finals with the shell of Kevin Love and no one else.  He's not going pull an otherwise mediocre team to a 66-16 record and conference finals appearance like in the 2008-2009 season.  There are probably 10-12 teams where he could come in, be the best player, and elevate them to being a true championship contender for the next couple of years.  The Celtics are one of those teams.  The Lakers are not.  He's diminished from his greatness.  He is still great, but the Lakers this year need him to be about 10 years younger for them to really have a chance.

As tazz says, can any player do that?  Hell, in NBA history there are only a handful who could.  In the past 40 years, you've got Bird, Duncan and Lebron who have carried bad / mediocre teams to 60 win seasons and championships.  Hakeem is in that conversation, Shaq too.  And that's pretty much it, in terms of players who have demonstrated the ability.

In terms of the top four or five players in the league, can any of Jokic, Giannis, Curry or Durant carry a bad team for extended stretch?  Results suggest otherwise.

I agree with you on the larger point:  Lebron is still an All-NBA player who would elevate any well-constructed team to contender status.

I think I must have left out a point I was trying to make.  LeBron can’t carry teams like he used to, but he’s still trying.  He’s playing nearly as many minutes per game as he did his last season in Cleveland, when he led the league in that.  But at 37, with injuries that are quickly mounting, I think this will hasten his demise.  He can’t go at the pace he used to, and the Lakers can’t survive if he doesn’t.

I will add he also stays in in blowouts cause he is chasing points and the kareem record. That is making all the things you said above worse there have been a lot of games the team has been down 20-25 and he is still out there with 5 minutes left. How Kerr manages his stars in golden state regardless of what side of a blowout they are in is night and day.

[Moranis]

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I think a couple of you are piling dirt on Lebron's grave a little too soon.  Yes, he's 38.  Yes, he's finally showing mortality with injuries.

But, in terms of numbers:

29.1 ppg (4th best in his career)
.588 eFG% (5th best in career)
62.5% 2PT% (best in his career)
2.8 3PM (best in his career)
1.1 blocks (3rd best in his career)
3.1 turnovers (3rd lowest in his career)

He's above his career averages in rebounds, FT%, FG%.  His points per 36 minutes are the highest of his career.

I want to see this trade, haha:

BRK trades:  Harden
BRK receives:  Lebron

PHI trades: Simmons
PHI receives:  Harden

LAL trades:  Lebron
LAL receives:  Simmons

The clear winner there is Brooklyn, right?  I think so, because Lebron is still a superstar.  For the next three seasons, I suspect he'll still be a top five-ish player in the NBA (clearly behind only Giannis, Jokic, Embiid and Durant).

I'm not piling dirt, personally, but I don't think he's the player who can carry an otherwise abysmal team far in the playoffs any more.  He's not going to pull off some run like in 2017 where he got to the finals with the shell of Kevin Love and no one else.  He's not going pull an otherwise mediocre team to a 66-16 record and conference finals appearance like in the 2008-2009 season.  There are probably 10-12 teams where he could come in, be the best player, and elevate them to being a true championship contender for the next couple of years.  The Celtics are one of those teams.  The Lakers are not.  He's diminished from his greatness.  He is still great, but the Lakers this year need him to be about 10 years younger for them to really have a chance.

As tazz says, can any player do that?  Hell, in NBA history there are only a handful who could.  In the past 40 years, you've got Bird, Duncan and Lebron who have carried bad / mediocre teams to 60 win seasons and championships.  Hakeem is in that conversation, Shaq too.  And that's pretty much it, in terms of players who have demonstrated the ability.

In terms of the top four or five players in the league, can any of Jokic, Giannis, Curry or Durant carry a bad team for extended stretch?  Results suggest otherwise.

I agree with you on the larger point:  Lebron is still an All-NBA player who would elevate any well-constructed team to contender status.

I think I must have left out a point I was trying to make.  LeBron can’t carry teams like he used to, but he’s still trying.  He’s playing nearly as many minutes per game as he did his last season in Cleveland, when he led the league in that.  But at 37, with injuries that are quickly mounting, I think this will hasten his demise.  He can’t go at the pace he used to, and the Lakers can’t survive if he doesn’t.

I will add he also stays in in blowouts cause he is chasing points and the kareem record. That is making all the things you said above worse there have been a lot of games the team has been down 20-25 and he is still out there with 5 minutes left. How Kerr manages his stars in golden state regardless of what side of a blowout they are in is night and day.

Lebron has never left games early, or at least not very many.  He has played that way since he was a rookie and that is much more in line with the way stars used to be used.  Jordan, for example, played like 40 minutes a night every single game in his prime.  Even the 2nd 3 peat he was still around 38 mpg or 39 mpg and he played all 82 games all 3 of those years.  Lebron will take some days off, but when he suits up, he wants to get in his work.  Now that may not be the best strategy with a 37 year old who has played the 3rd most regular season minutes in NBA history, but that is who Lebron has always been.  If he plays, he plays a lot.