Author Topic: Report: Cavs interested in Schroder; Mavs aren’t  (Read 17829 times)

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Re: Report: Cavs interested in Schroder
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2022, 10:25:10 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Several trade options

Sexton for Schroder, 22 1st, 24 1st (top 5)

Sexton, Rubio for Schroder, Richardson, Langford (Boston would likely look to move Rubio, but could keep him for Bird rights)

DPE for Schroder and then either Wade into Theis TPE or more favorable of 22 HOU, 22 SAS 2nd's + least favorable 23 CLE, GS 2nd's


I wouldn't give up that much for Sexton with the knowledge that the team has to resign him.   You give up that much, you are planning to give him a max or near max contract.   I am not sure Sexton would warrant that.
Well yeah.  I'd rather pay Sexton 25 million than Smart 20 million as an example. The C's need talent and that is a fairly easy way to get talent that doesn't really cost much.  How else is Boston adding talent to the team?  Especially young talent that is actually good. 
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Re: Report: Cavs interested in Schroder
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2022, 10:27:54 AM »

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Several trade options

Sexton for Schroder, 22 1st, 24 1st (top 5)

Sexton, Rubio for Schroder, Richardson, Langford (Boston would likely look to move Rubio, but could keep him for Bird rights)

DPE for Schroder and then either Wade into Theis TPE or more favorable of 22 HOU, 22 SAS 2nd's + least favorable 23 CLE, GS 2nd's


I wouldn't give up that much for Sexton with the knowledge that the team has to resign him.   You give up that much, you are planning to give him a max or near max contract.   I am not sure Sexton would warrant that.
Well yeah.  I'd rather pay Sexton 25 million than Smart 20 million as an example. The C's need talent and that is a fairly easy way to get talent that doesn't really cost much.  How else is Boston adding talent to the team?  Especially young talent that is actually good.

There's a lot to like about Sexton. Is he a bit of a ballhog? Maybe. But, if we can be honest, until this year, no one else on that team was any good. They needed his scoring just to stay competitive.

He's a young player that averaged 24 ppg in the NBA for a full season. His best qualities are that he thinks he's really good, he's not scarred of anybody, and he plays really, really hard.

Re: Report: Cavs interested in Schroder
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2022, 10:29:41 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Several trade options

Sexton for Schroder, 22 1st, 24 1st (top 5)

Sexton, Rubio for Schroder, Richardson, Langford (Boston would likely look to move Rubio, but could keep him for Bird rights)

DPE for Schroder and then either Wade into Theis TPE or more favorable of 22 HOU, 22 SAS 2nd's + least favorable 23 CLE, GS 2nd's


I wouldn't give up that much for Sexton with the knowledge that the team has to resign him.   You give up that much, you are planning to give him a max or near max contract.   I am not sure Sexton would warrant that.
Well yeah.  I'd rather pay Sexton 25 million than Smart 20 million as an example. The C's need talent and that is a fairly easy way to get talent that doesn't really cost much.  How else is Boston adding talent to the team?  Especially young talent that is actually good.


I am not against adding him but I am against giving up that much for him.   

Re: Report: Cavs interested in Schroder
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2022, 10:33:11 AM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Several trade options

Sexton for Schroder, 22 1st, 24 1st (top 5)

Sexton, Rubio for Schroder, Richardson, Langford (Boston would likely look to move Rubio, but could keep him for Bird rights)

DPE for Schroder and then either Wade into Theis TPE or more favorable of 22 HOU, 22 SAS 2nd's + least favorable 23 CLE, GS 2nd's


I wouldn't give up that much for Sexton with the knowledge that the team has to resign him.   You give up that much, you are planning to give him a max or near max contract.   I am not sure Sexton would warrant that.
Well yeah.  I'd rather pay Sexton 25 million than Smart 20 million as an example. The C's need talent and that is a fairly easy way to get talent that doesn't really cost much.  How else is Boston adding talent to the team?  Especially young talent that is actually good.

Pretty simple -- by more smartly using 2 first round picks and whatever they can get for Schroder (2 2nd round picks) to get a better player / better fit / better contract than Collin Sexton.

To me, overpaying for a player like Sexton is an "any port in a storm" mentality.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 10:51:11 AM by todd_days_41 »

Re: Report: Cavs interested in Schroder
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2022, 11:02:12 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Sexton for Schroder, 22 1st, 24 1st (top 5)

Huh? Sexton:
  • tore up his knee / out for the season
  • is a free agent this summer
  • is disliked by his teammates for his ball pounding / tunnel vision style
Quote
Collin Sexton apparently isn’t the most popular player in the Cavaliers locker room.

The 22-year-old guard, who’s in his third season with the Cavs, has reportedly frustrated teammates with his style of play.

“Various Cavs players still grow frustrated by the way Sexton dominates the ball, and opponents taunt them by saying during games, ‘you know he’s not going to pass you the ball,'” according to The Athletic.

Just because we're all tired of watching the Cs lose doesn't mean any player with a pulse is worth 2 first round picks (plus whatever we can get for Schroder).
That quote was from well over a year ago and Sexton improved significantly down the stretch of last year and before he got hurt this year.

Sexton is a legit talent.  If you can acquire him for 2 later 1st round picks, you have to do it.  Obviously you have to re-sign him, but you wouldn't acquire him if you weren't going to re-sign him.  He just turned 23 and has immense talent.
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Re: Report: Cavs interested in Schroder
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2022, 11:03:27 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Several trade options

Sexton for Schroder, 22 1st, 24 1st (top 5)

Sexton, Rubio for Schroder, Richardson, Langford (Boston would likely look to move Rubio, but could keep him for Bird rights)

DPE for Schroder and then either Wade into Theis TPE or more favorable of 22 HOU, 22 SAS 2nd's + least favorable 23 CLE, GS 2nd's


I wouldn't give up that much for Sexton with the knowledge that the team has to resign him.   You give up that much, you are planning to give him a max or near max contract.   I am not sure Sexton would warrant that.
Well yeah.  I'd rather pay Sexton 25 million than Smart 20 million as an example. The C's need talent and that is a fairly easy way to get talent that doesn't really cost much.  How else is Boston adding talent to the team?  Especially young talent that is actually good.

Pretty simple -- by more smartly using 2 first round picks and whatever they can get for Schroder (2 2nd round picks) to get a better player / better fit / better contract than Collin Sexton.

To me, overpaying for a player like Sexton is an "any port in a storm" mentality.
I just don't' think that player exists and if they do, they won't have anywhere near the talent of Sexton.  Boston quite simply doesn't have enough talent.  If you can get a talent like Sexton for 2 1st round picks, you have to do it and there isn't reasonably going to be a better use of those picks than Sexton.
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Re: Report: Cavs interested in Schroder
« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2022, 11:03:49 AM »

Offline Wretch

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Would like to see Schoeder for Rondo, Dean Wade, Dylan Windler trade.  With Windler we save about half a mil, without him, about 2.5 mil.  Rondo is expiring, and the two W's both have another year left.
The W's are both HBIQ players, good passers, and "great shooters"!  I watch alot of Cavs BB here in Ohio (no LP), and think these guys would really bring value and skill to our young team.  Believe Cavs do it to get Schroeder as they will be deep in playoff mix this year, and for years to come!

We don't have to take any salary back, because Schroder's salary would fit entirely within their new Disabled Player Exception.  I would have some interest in D. Wade, though.  Gotta love that name, but he's also made 18 starts this year.

We don’t have to take salary back, but the Cavs only have a couple million in room to stay under the tax, so they may ask us to take salary on as part of the deal.

Tricky.  Where are we on the tax, assuming JB doesn't make the All-Star team?
About $900k over.  The Cavs will probably want to send out two players, as that would keep them under the tax and leave them with enough space to afford a buyout with an open roster spot.  My vote is Rondo and Ed Davis, because those two make the minimum, aren’t owed anything next year, and the C’s could get an exception for all of Schröder’s contract.  We’d save enough that we could afford to just cut Fernando.


I don't think that's exactly right.  Here is what Hollinger wrote after the Junacho Trade:

"Boston is $2.7 million into the tax following this trade, but that figure includes $1.9 million in incentives for Jaylen Brown that seem unlikely to come to fruition"

I think JB has 2 incentives 1 for All-Star and 1 for games played, both are just under $1m (totaling $1.9m).  He could still hit the games played and I think the team will operate as if he will hit that because sitting him to avoid the bonus if he's healthy would poison the relationship.  So based on that assumption the Cs are going to operate as if they are $1.7-1.8m over the cap. 


Re: Report: Cavs interested in Schroder
« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2022, 11:16:53 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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Would like to see Schoeder for Rondo, Dean Wade, Dylan Windler trade.  With Windler we save about half a mil, without him, about 2.5 mil.  Rondo is expiring, and the two W's both have another year left.
The W's are both HBIQ players, good passers, and "great shooters"!  I watch alot of Cavs BB here in Ohio (no LP), and think these guys would really bring value and skill to our young team.  Believe Cavs do it to get Schroeder as they will be deep in playoff mix this year, and for years to come!

We don't have to take any salary back, because Schroder's salary would fit entirely within their new Disabled Player Exception.  I would have some interest in D. Wade, though.  Gotta love that name, but he's also made 18 starts this year.

We don’t have to take salary back, but the Cavs only have a couple million in room to stay under the tax, so they may ask us to take salary on as part of the deal.

Tricky.  Where are we on the tax, assuming JB doesn't make the All-Star team?
About $900k over.  The Cavs will probably want to send out two players, as that would keep them under the tax and leave them with enough space to afford a buyout with an open roster spot.  My vote is Rondo and Ed Davis, because those two make the minimum, aren’t owed anything next year, and the C’s could get an exception for all of Schröder’s contract.  We’d save enough that we could afford to just cut Fernando.


I don't think that's exactly right.  Here is what Hollinger wrote after the Junacho Trade:

"Boston is $2.7 million into the tax following this trade, but that figure includes $1.9 million in incentives for Jaylen Brown that seem unlikely to come to fruition"

I think JB has 2 incentives 1 for All-Star and 1 for games played, both are just under $1m (totaling $1.9m).  He could still hit the games played and I think the team will operate as if he will hit that because sitting him to avoid the bonus if he's healthy would poison the relationship.  So based on that assumption the Cs are going to operate as if they are $1.7-1.8m over the cap.

This is largely incorrect.  JB does have two incentives.  One is based on team performance (wins and playoff success) and also has the games played component (He has to play 63ish games and the team has to do well).  The other is an All-Star game/All-NBA component.  The team performance bonus is considered unlikely because of last year, and given how the season is going, is also unlikely this year.  It’s a shade under $1 million.  The All-Star bonus is currently considered likely, because he made the team last year, and is $1.9 million.  If he misses the game, he could still get it via All-NBA, but that again is pretty unlikely given the trajectory of his and the team’s season.

If the Celtics want to be completely conservative, and make sure that they avoid the tax even if they win the title and JB is all-NBA, they’re about $3.8 million over.  However, if they’re being realistic, or willing to pay the tax in such an unlikely scenario, thenJB won’t get any of his ~$2.9 million bonus, especially once all-star rosters are finalized.

EDIT: To provide additional clarity, JBs team performance incentive is tiered.  He gets half if the team wins enough games (49), so the C’s would have to finish on a 24-9 stretch from this point forward, and the rest if they advance far in the playoffs (maybe even have to win the title, that target’s a little unclear to me).  But he could get half of his team performance incentive and the C’s would be at $1.3 million over or so, which is still Bruno territory in terms of contracts that need to be moved.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 12:19:38 PM by Celtics2021 »

Re: Report: Cavs interested in Schroder
« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2022, 11:24:12 AM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Several trade options

Sexton for Schroder, 22 1st, 24 1st (top 5)

Sexton, Rubio for Schroder, Richardson, Langford (Boston would likely look to move Rubio, but could keep him for Bird rights)

DPE for Schroder and then either Wade into Theis TPE or more favorable of 22 HOU, 22 SAS 2nd's + least favorable 23 CLE, GS 2nd's


I wouldn't give up that much for Sexton with the knowledge that the team has to resign him.   You give up that much, you are planning to give him a max or near max contract.   I am not sure Sexton would warrant that.
Well yeah.  I'd rather pay Sexton 25 million than Smart 20 million as an example. The C's need talent and that is a fairly easy way to get talent that doesn't really cost much.  How else is Boston adding talent to the team?  Especially young talent that is actually good.

Pretty simple -- by more smartly using 2 first round picks and whatever they can get for Schroder (2 2nd round picks) to get a better player / better fit / better contract than Collin Sexton.

To me, overpaying for a player like Sexton is an "any port in a storm" mentality.
I just don't' think that player exists and if they do, they won't have anywhere near the talent of Sexton.  Boston quite simply doesn't have enough talent.  If you can get a talent like Sexton for 2 1st round picks, you have to do it and there isn't reasonably going to be a better use of those picks than Sexton.

Look, I just disagree with you. If you believe either, a) teams are offering multiple 1sts and a good NBA player for Sexton right now, or b) the Cavs wouldn't snatch that up in a heartbeat and thank their lucky stars...?

Well, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell ya.....

Re: Report: Cavs interested in Schroder
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2022, 11:38:16 AM »

Offline bogg

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I'd have no problem kicking the tires on Sexton, but you aren't bringing him in to replace Smart, you're bringing him in as the fifth starter to go with Smart/Jays/Rob. Sexton is very much a "get mine" scorer, not a playmaker, and doesn't defend a ton. You'd be badly exacerbating the your turn/my turn/his turn problem on offense putting the ball in his hands full-time. Guy can get a bucket though, and there's a trade cost at which it's worth trying him out in the role as third option/guy who carries the bench.

Re: Report: Cavs interested in Schroder
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2022, 12:46:28 PM »

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Would like to see Schoeder for Rondo, Dean Wade, Dylan Windler trade.  With Windler we save about half a mil, without him, about 2.5 mil.  Rondo is expiring, and the two W's both have another year left.
The W's are both HBIQ players, good passers, and "great shooters"!  I watch alot of Cavs BB here in Ohio (no LP), and think these guys would really bring value and skill to our young team.  Believe Cavs do it to get Schroeder as they will be deep in playoff mix this year, and for years to come!

We don't have to take any salary back, because Schroder's salary would fit entirely within their new Disabled Player Exception.  I would have some interest in D. Wade, though.  Gotta love that name, but he's also made 18 starts this year.

We don’t have to take salary back, but the Cavs only have a couple million in room to stay under the tax, so they may ask us to take salary on as part of the deal.

Tricky.  Where are we on the tax, assuming JB doesn't make the All-Star team?
About $900k over.  The Cavs will probably want to send out two players, as that would keep them under the tax and leave them with enough space to afford a buyout with an open roster spot.  My vote is Rondo and Ed Davis, because those two make the minimum, aren’t owed anything next year, and the C’s could get an exception for all of Schröder’s contract.  We’d save enough that we could afford to just cut Fernando.


I don't think that's exactly right.  Here is what Hollinger wrote after the Junacho Trade:

"Boston is $2.7 million into the tax following this trade, but that figure includes $1.9 million in incentives for Jaylen Brown that seem unlikely to come to fruition"

I think JB has 2 incentives 1 for All-Star and 1 for games played, both are just under $1m (totaling $1.9m).  He could still hit the games played and I think the team will operate as if he will hit that because sitting him to avoid the bonus if he's healthy would poison the relationship.  So based on that assumption the Cs are going to operate as if they are $1.7-1.8m over the cap.

This is largely incorrect.  JB does have two incentives.  One is based on team performance (wins and playoff success) and also has the games played component (He has to play 63ish games and the team has to do well).  The other is an All-Star game/All-NBA component.  The team performance bonus is considered unlikely because of last year, and given how the season is going, is also unlikely this year.  It’s a shade under $1 million.  The All-Star bonus is currently considered likely, because he made the team last year, and is $1.9 million.  If he misses the game, he could still get it via All-NBA, but that again is pretty unlikely given the trajectory of his and the team’s season.

If the Celtics want to be completely conservative, and make sure that they avoid the tax even if they win the title and JB is all-NBA, they’re about $3.8 million over.  However, if they’re being realistic, or willing to pay the tax in such an unlikely scenario, thenJB won’t get any of his ~$2.9 million bonus, especially once all-star rosters are finalized.

EDIT: To provide additional clarity, JBs team performance incentive is tiered.  He gets half if the team wins enough games (49), so the C’s would have to finish on a 24-9 stretch from this point forward, and the rest if they advance far in the playoffs (maybe even have to win the title, that target’s a little unclear to me).  But he could get half of his team performance incentive and the C’s would be at $1.3 million over or so, which is still Bruno territory in terms of contracts that need to be moved.

More clarification on the JB All-Star bonus:

Quote
Jaylen Brown has a sizable bonus ($1.446 million) for making the All-Star team, and league sources say it applies even if he is selected as an injury substitute. That’s a big problem for Boston, because the trade deadline is Feb. 10 … after All-Star selections have been made, yes, but 10 days before the game itself, thus leaving ample time for Brown to be selected as a sub. 3 days ago – via John Hollinger @ The Athletic

Quote
Or not. There is one other tricky piece of fine print, I’m told: Brown’s All-Star bonus also only applies if he plays 65 games. So … if the Celtics get rope-a-doped by an unlikely All-Star bonus for Brown that sends them over the line, would they dare to sit Brown out four games toward the end of the season to get themselves back under? 3 days ago – via John Hollinger @ The Athletic

Brown has missed 14 games; if he misses 18 total he becomes ineligible for the bonus, even if he's an All-Star.


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Re: Report: Cavs interested in Schroder
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2022, 12:54:36 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Several trade options

Sexton for Schroder, 22 1st, 24 1st (top 5)

Sexton, Rubio for Schroder, Richardson, Langford (Boston would likely look to move Rubio, but could keep him for Bird rights)

DPE for Schroder and then either Wade into Theis TPE or more favorable of 22 HOU, 22 SAS 2nd's + least favorable 23 CLE, GS 2nd's


I wouldn't give up that much for Sexton with the knowledge that the team has to resign him.   You give up that much, you are planning to give him a max or near max contract.   I am not sure Sexton would warrant that.
Well yeah.  I'd rather pay Sexton 25 million than Smart 20 million as an example. The C's need talent and that is a fairly easy way to get talent that doesn't really cost much.  How else is Boston adding talent to the team?  Especially young talent that is actually good.

Pretty simple -- by more smartly using 2 first round picks and whatever they can get for Schroder (2 2nd round picks) to get a better player / better fit / better contract than Collin Sexton.

To me, overpaying for a player like Sexton is an "any port in a storm" mentality.
I just don't' think that player exists and if they do, they won't have anywhere near the talent of Sexton.  Boston quite simply doesn't have enough talent.  If you can get a talent like Sexton for 2 1st round picks, you have to do it and there isn't reasonably going to be a better use of those picks than Sexton.

Look, I just disagree with you. If you believe either, a) teams are offering multiple 1sts and a good NBA player for Sexton right now, or b) the Cavs wouldn't snatch that up in a heartbeat and thank their lucky stars...?

Well, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell ya.....
The value on Sexton is all over the place depending on the team.  Cavs bloggers seem to think he could be the centerpiece player in a trade for Ben Simmons or Jaylen Brown with several draft picks (and Love) also leaving the Cavs.  Others think something like Darius Bazley and Ty Jerome for Sexton makes sense.  A Caris LeVert for Sexton trade was also rumored as a possibility (though the finances don't work, so other components are needed).  If I knew for sure someone like McCollum would come available and the Blazers (or the other team) would be interested in what Boston has to offer, then sure, you hang on to the picks as you will need them, but I just don't think those type things are likely to happen, while the Cavs would absolutely move Sexton if they got the right offer.  So yeah, I'd move Schroder (who is more than likely gone next year), the pick this year which should be in the teens or early 20's a future protected 1st for a talented top 10 pick.

Also, Sexton has apparently been telling people his rehab is going so well that he may be available for the playoffs this year.  If that is the case, I'd be more comfortable with the injury.
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Re: Report: Cavs interested in Schroder
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2022, 02:18:13 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Trade Schroeder & who going play point? Smart? Ugh! Playoff will be harder to reach

"the playoffs" at this point are looking like a play-in game (or two) followed by a 1st round beat down.



if the Cavs offer a couple seconds or a protected 1st for Schroder I'd call that into the league office right now
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Re: Report: Cavs interested in Schroder
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2022, 02:31:19 PM »

Offline footey

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Trade Schroeder & who going play point? Smart? Ugh! Playoff will be harder to reach

"the playoffs" at this point are looking like a play-in game (or two) followed by a 1st round beat down.



if the Cavs offer a couple seconds or a protected 1st for Schroder I'd call that into the league office right now

Let's say the Cavs finish 2nd (based on performance to date and remaining strength of schedule, that is the most likely outcome relative to other placement), and Boston finishes with the 7th seed.  You think that it will very likely be a beatdown of Boston by Cleveland?  I don't.  I think the only team that we should fear a beatdown from are the Nets, assuming that Durant returns and Harden recovers from his latest hamstring injury. I think we match up pretty well vs the Bucks and, if the prior contest with them is an indication, the Heat.  Maybe I would worry about the Sixers, but not a beatdown by them.

Re: Report: Cavs interested in Schroder
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2022, 02:34:32 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Trade Schroeder & who going play point? Smart? Ugh! Playoff will be harder to reach

"the playoffs" at this point are looking like a play-in game (or two) followed by a 1st round beat down.



if the Cavs offer a couple seconds or a protected 1st for Schroder I'd call that into the league office right now

Let's say the Cavs finish 2nd (based on performance to date and remaining strength of schedule, that is the most likely outcome relative to other placement), and Boston finishes with the 7th seed.  You think that it will very likely be a beatdown of Boston by Cleveland?  I don't.  I think the only team that we should fear a beatdown from are the Nets, assuming that Durant returns and Harden recovers from his latest hamstring injury. I think we match up pretty well vs the Bucks and, if the prior contest with them is an indication, the Heat.  Maybe I would worry about the Sixers, but not a beatdown by them.

I like the optimism, but I'm skeptical that a team that has essentially been .500 the past two seasons is going to get things together and win a playoff series on the road.  I don't know what "beat down" means exactly, but it it implies a playoff series that is never really in doubt, that's what I forsee.


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