ISO Joe’s Hoop: Anyone Else Get a Little Misty?

[slamtheking]

Can anyone explain the rationale at the time behind the original JJ trade? I'm too young to remember..

JJ for Dell and Rogers (and the following years first rounder?) seems weird.

Celtics were a young team having some success and wanted to try to make a run towards and into the playoffs and needed some veteran help. So they came to an agreement to trade one of their two rookies to Phoenix and the choice was to send either Joe Johnson or Kedrick Brown. The decided to send Joe and keep Kedrick.

The thinking might have been they saw a higher ceiling in Kedrick because he was a physical specimen with elite athleticism. But the kids skills were not good and Boston gave up on him in less than three years. He washed out of the league a little after that. Joe became Joe.

And after, the trade was even worse because the team refused to re-sign Rogers over something like $1 million.  That in turn led to the Vin Baker trade.  Good times.

And that all coincided with an explosion in Joe's game when he got really good.

keeping JJ instead of Kedrick would have made such a huge difference in the team's trajectory.  considering Brown never showed any skills whereas JJ did as rookies, was just mindboggling when it came out they could have sent Brown but wanted to keep him over JJ.   incredible mismanagement of the team in those days

Yep.  Totally bungled.  Beyond Johnson, every mock draft at the time projected us to take Troy Murphy and Tony Parker.  There are worse things than this team:

Potapenko / Murphy
Antoine
Pierce
Johnson
Anderson / Parker

But my God, the talent we passed on or traded away during those years.  Ron Mercer over Tmac, for instance.

I wouldn't bemoan Mercer over TMac.  Mercer looked good prior to injuries and Tmac looked like a real underperformer through his rookie deal.   I do agree that the 2001 draft would have set this team up to contend for several years in the early 00's.  Center would have been an issue but we were solid everywhere else.  Add Battie (probably starts over Potapenko and Murphy), Walter and Delk off the bench, we would have been in the finals instead of those Nets teams.

[Kernewek]

That's a bit revisionist on TMac - he wasn't the superstar that he would blossom into in Orlando but he was on a clear upward trajectory in Toronto, even if he was overshadowed by Vince Carter.

Would have been wild to see Toronto had those two stayed, actually.

Very cool to see the quick return of Iso Joe, but I found the standing ovation a bit weird, if nice.

[Kiorrik]

Can anyone explain the rationale at the time behind the original JJ trade? I'm too young to remember..

JJ for Dell and Rogers (and the following years first rounder?) seems weird.

Celtics were a young team having some success and wanted to try to make a run towards and into the playoffs and needed some veteran help. So they came to an agreement to trade one of their two rookies to Phoenix and the choice was to send either Joe Johnson or Kedrick Brown. The decided to send Joe and keep Kedrick.

The thinking might have been they saw a higher ceiling in Kedrick because he was a physical specimen with elite athleticism. But the kids skills were not good and Boston gave up on him in less than three years. He washed out of the league a little after that. Joe became Joe.

And after, the trade was even worse because the team refused to re-sign Rogers over something like $1 million.  That in turn led to the Vin Baker trade.  Good times.

And that all coincided with an explosion in Joe's game when he got really good.

keeping JJ instead of Kedrick would have made such a huge difference in the team's trajectory.  considering Brown never showed any skills whereas JJ did as rookies, was just mindboggling when it came out they could have sent Brown but wanted to keep him over JJ.   incredible mismanagement of the team in those days

Yep.  Totally bungled.  Beyond Johnson, every mock draft at the time projected us to take Troy Murphy and Tony Parker.  There are worse things than this team:

Potapenko / Murphy
Antoine
Pierce
Johnson
Anderson / Parker

But my God, the talent we passed on or traded away during those years.  Ron Mercer over Tmac, for instance.

I wouldn't bemoan Mercer over TMac.  Mercer looked good prior to injuries and Tmac looked like a real underperformer through his rookie deal.   I do agree that the 2001 draft would have set this team up to contend for several years in the early 00's.  Center would have been an issue but we were solid everywhere else.  Add Battie (probably starts over Potapenko and Murphy), Walter and Delk off the bench, we would have been in the finals instead of those Nets teams.

These kinda discussion make me more and more steadfast in my opinion that the draft is a huge crapshoot.

[Roy H.]

Can anyone explain the rationale at the time behind the original JJ trade? I'm too young to remember..

JJ for Dell and Rogers (and the following years first rounder?) seems weird.

Celtics were a young team having some success and wanted to try to make a run towards and into the playoffs and needed some veteran help. So they came to an agreement to trade one of their two rookies to Phoenix and the choice was to send either Joe Johnson or Kedrick Brown. The decided to send Joe and keep Kedrick.

The thinking might have been they saw a higher ceiling in Kedrick because he was a physical specimen with elite athleticism. But the kids skills were not good and Boston gave up on him in less than three years. He washed out of the league a little after that. Joe became Joe.

And after, the trade was even worse because the team refused to re-sign Rogers over something like $1 million.  That in turn led to the Vin Baker trade.  Good times.

And that all coincided with an explosion in Joe's game when he got really good.

keeping JJ instead of Kedrick would have made such a huge difference in the team's trajectory.  considering Brown never showed any skills whereas JJ did as rookies, was just mindboggling when it came out they could have sent Brown but wanted to keep him over JJ.   incredible mismanagement of the team in those days

Yep.  Totally bungled.  Beyond Johnson, every mock draft at the time projected us to take Troy Murphy and Tony Parker.  There are worse things than this team:

Potapenko / Murphy
Antoine
Pierce
Johnson
Anderson / Parker

But my God, the talent we passed on or traded away during those years.  Ron Mercer over Tmac, for instance.

I wouldn't bemoan Mercer over TMac.  Mercer looked good prior to injuries and Tmac looked like a real underperformer through his rookie deal.   I do agree that the 2001 draft would have set this team up to contend for several years in the early 00's.  Center would have been an issue but we were solid everywhere else.  Add Battie (probably starts over Potapenko and Murphy), Walter and Delk off the bench, we would have been in the finals instead of those Nets teams.

I liked Mercer, but he had no 3PT range.  As for McGrady, I disagree.  There’s a reason he got a max deal in Orlando:  his potential was off the charts.  I don’t think his age 18 and 19 seasons were an example of underperforming.

[slamtheking]

Can anyone explain the rationale at the time behind the original JJ trade? I'm too young to remember..

JJ for Dell and Rogers (and the following years first rounder?) seems weird.

Celtics were a young team having some success and wanted to try to make a run towards and into the playoffs and needed some veteran help. So they came to an agreement to trade one of their two rookies to Phoenix and the choice was to send either Joe Johnson or Kedrick Brown. The decided to send Joe and keep Kedrick.

The thinking might have been they saw a higher ceiling in Kedrick because he was a physical specimen with elite athleticism. But the kids skills were not good and Boston gave up on him in less than three years. He washed out of the league a little after that. Joe became Joe.

And after, the trade was even worse because the team refused to re-sign Rogers over something like $1 million.  That in turn led to the Vin Baker trade.  Good times.

And that all coincided with an explosion in Joe's game when he got really good.

keeping JJ instead of Kedrick would have made such a huge difference in the team's trajectory.  considering Brown never showed any skills whereas JJ did as rookies, was just mindboggling when it came out they could have sent Brown but wanted to keep him over JJ.   incredible mismanagement of the team in those days

Yep.  Totally bungled.  Beyond Johnson, every mock draft at the time projected us to take Troy Murphy and Tony Parker.  There are worse things than this team:

Potapenko / Murphy
Antoine
Pierce
Johnson
Anderson / Parker

But my God, the talent we passed on or traded away during those years.  Ron Mercer over Tmac, for instance.

I wouldn't bemoan Mercer over TMac.  Mercer looked good prior to injuries and Tmac looked like a real underperformer through his rookie deal.   I do agree that the 2001 draft would have set this team up to contend for several years in the early 00's.  Center would have been an issue but we were solid everywhere else.  Add Battie (probably starts over Potapenko and Murphy), Walter and Delk off the bench, we would have been in the finals instead of those Nets teams.

I liked Mercer, but he had no 3PT range.  As for McGrady, I disagree.  There’s a reason he got a max deal in Orlando:  his potential was off the charts.  I don’t think his age 18 and 19 seasons were an example of underperforming.

as you stated, he got that deal off of potential, not what he had produced to that time.  his time in Toronto was underwhelming.  a fair example of the risk teams took those days in drafting high schoolers.  may or may not pan out and the ones that eventually pan out sometimes didn't until after their rookie deals expired.

[nickagneta]

Can anyone explain the rationale at the time behind the original JJ trade? I'm too young to remember..

JJ for Dell and Rogers (and the following years first rounder?) seems weird.

Celtics were a young team having some success and wanted to try to make a run towards and into the playoffs and needed some veteran help. So they came to an agreement to trade one of their two rookies to Phoenix and the choice was to send either Joe Johnson or Kedrick Brown. The decided to send Joe and keep Kedrick.

The thinking might have been they saw a higher ceiling in Kedrick because he was a physical specimen with elite athleticism. But the kids skills were not good and Boston gave up on him in less than three years. He washed out of the league a little after that. Joe became Joe.

And after, the trade was even worse because the team refused to re-sign Rogers over something like $1 million.  That in turn led to the Vin Baker trade.  Good times.

And that all coincided with an explosion in Joe's game when he got really good.

keeping JJ instead of Kedrick would have made such a huge difference in the team's trajectory.  considering Brown never showed any skills whereas JJ did as rookies, was just mindboggling when it came out they could have sent Brown but wanted to keep him over JJ.   incredible mismanagement of the team in those days

Yep.  Totally bungled.  Beyond Johnson, every mock draft at the time projected us to take Troy Murphy and Tony Parker.  There are worse things than this team:

Potapenko / Murphy
Antoine
Pierce
Johnson
Anderson / Parker

But my God, the talent we passed on or traded away during those years.  Ron Mercer over Tmac, for instance.

Troy Murphy was man ahead of his time. A big center that was a double double guy that could hit the three at an elite for that time. Not many guys his size could do that back then. And he was tough as nails. Not athletic but tough.