Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (0-1) Game #2 10/22/21

[gouki88]

Folks are getting way too down after this one. It was a let-up game after a 2OT game against the Knicks where 4 players played huge minutes (45mins). It happens.

There's definitely an element of this (although it didn't seem to impact Timelord, miraculously). But I really want to see our coaching improve. Or at least the lineups we send out

Yeah, Udoka is off to a bad start. I am more nervous about him than I am about the players.

And considering that we hired him without even inquiring about Carlisle's availability.......

if we’re willing to be honest, it’s because rick doesn’t have enough melanin. when you allow non-basketball criteria to drive personnel searches, you get what you deserve. that said, i sincerely hope ime figures it out.

Eeeeesh...icky....

Correct me if I'm wrong but there were several canidates interviewed of different races.

Ime was also widely considered the best of the "unproven" coaches available.

“Eeeeesh...icky....”? lol, sorry if the truth offends your delicate sensibilities or your social justice agenda. it was a well known fact that the C’s were purposefully looking for a minority for the job. it was even discussed on this forum. if it helps your sophisticated social palate, the reverse would have been just as egregious.

no, all official candidates were black men: chauncey billups, darvin ham, charles lee, jamahl mosley and ime. granted, brad “interviewed” four assistants from his staff, but these were clearly professional courtesy interviews. chauncey, ime, and darvin were the only second interviews.

while there were rumors and speculation from the media surrounding kara lawson, becky hammon, sam cassell, lloyd pierce, jason kidd, juwan howard, and mike d’antoni, there wasn’t evidence or official word from the C’s front office regarding these candidates, as there was for the official candidates.

stating that “ime was also widely considered the best of the ‘unproven’ coaches available” supports my point. we have a young, leaderless, underperforming, often lazy team that clearly tuned out their previous coach. why would the C’s hire a first time, unproven coach for this mess of a team? guys like JT, JB, and marcus need a veteran coach with a strong track record who has the credibility to command the locker room and kick some arse.

Heck, I'd take Mike D’antoni right now with his style...and I hate that guy...but at least we'd have a style.

Tatum and Brown would put up some wildly entertaining numbers. Plus, D'Antoni got that Houston team inches away from a title

[nickagneta]

Ime got an interview to be coach because he was a great candidate. Ime was hired because Brad thinks he will be a great coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's because he is a bad head coach.

Ime didn't get an interview to be coach because he was a great "black" candidate. Ime wasn't hired because Brad thinks he will be a great "black" coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's not because he is a bad "black" head coach.

great candidate, based on what?

I hope Brad is right because I really don’t know the body of work he looked at to get to the conclusion that Ime will be a great coach.

I just don’t think Boston is the place for a no coaching experience rookie coach whose team is coming out slow out the gate.

This hire is on Brad.

Do you know who had no NBA coaching experience and lost his first 4 games he coached as an NBA head coach?

Brad Stevens

[Ogaju]

Ime got an interview to be coach because he was a great candidate. Ime was hired because Brad thinks he will be a great coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's because he is a bad head coach.

Ime didn't get an interview to be coach because he was a great "black" candidate. Ime wasn't hired because Brad thinks he will be a great "black" coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's not because he is a bad "black" head coach.

great candidate, based on what?

I hope Brad is right because I really don’t know the body of work he looked at to get to the conclusion that Ime will be a great coach.

I just don’t think Boston is the place for a no coaching experience rookie coach whose team is coming out slow out the gate.

This hire is on Brad.

Do you know who had no NBA coaching experience and lost his first 4 games he coached as an NBA head coach?

Brad Stevens

Ime’s hire is not comparable to Brad. Brad had vast head coaching experience. He was an innovative coach with giant-killer bona fide. The fact that he struggled at the beginning with that resume is not a ringing endorsement for Ime’s hire, it’s a reason to pause. You didn’t answer my question.

[nickagneta]

Ime got an interview to be coach because he was a great candidate. Ime was hired because Brad thinks he will be a great coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's because he is a bad head coach.

Ime didn't get an interview to be coach because he was a great "black" candidate. Ime wasn't hired because Brad thinks he will be a great "black" coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's not because he is a bad "black" head coach.

great candidate, based on what?

I hope Brad is right because I really don’t know the body of work he looked at to get to the conclusion that Ime will be a great coach.

I just don’t think Boston is the place for a no coaching experience rookie coach whose team is coming out slow out the gate.

This hire is on Brad.

Do you know who had no NBA coaching experience and lost his first 4 games he coached as an NBA head coach?

Brad Stevens

Ime’s hire is not comparable to Brad. Brad had vast head coaching experience. He was an innovative coach with giant-killer bona fide. The fact that he struggled at the beginning with that resume is not a ringing endorsement for Ime’s hire, it’s a reason to pause. You didn’t answer my question.

He was a great candidate based on his vast experience of learning to be a head coach under one of the best head coaches of all-time, has experience coaching the Celtics current two stars in USA basketball and because he has had positive reviews from superstars he has coached in San Antonio, Philadelphia and Brooklyn.  He was also a 10 year veteran player and that experience is extremely valuable.

[Mahk E Mahk]

Ime got an interview to be coach because he was a great candidate. Ime was hired because Brad thinks he will be a great coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's because he is a bad head coach.

Ime didn't get an interview to be coach because he was a great "black" candidate. Ime wasn't hired because Brad thinks he will be a great "black" coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's not because he is a bad "black" head coach.

great candidate, based on what?

I hope Brad is right because I really don’t know the body of work he looked at to get to the conclusion that Ime will be a great coach.

I just don’t think Boston is the place for a no coaching experience rookie coach whose team is coming out slow out the gate.

This hire is on Brad.

Do you know who had no NBA coaching experience and lost his first 4 games he coached as an NBA head coach?

Brad Stevens

Ime’s hire is not comparable to Brad. Brad had vast head coaching experience. He was an innovative coach with giant-killer bona fide. The fact that he struggled at the beginning with that resume is not a ringing endorsement for Ime’s hire, it’s a reason to pause. You didn’t answer my question.

He was a great candidate based on his vast experience of learning to be a head coach under one of the best head coaches of all-time, has experience coaching the Celtics current two stars in USA basketball and because he has had positive reviews from superstars he has coached in San Antonio, Philadelphia and Brooklyn.  He was also a 10 year veteran player and that experience is extremely valuable.

you’re trying too hard…and in doing so, ignoring facts that seem to be bothersome for you. like it or not, the C’s had an agenda that had nothing to do with head coaching qualifications. unfortunately, previous head coaching experience was secondary.

from jake fischer’s june 2021 BR article:

“Team personnel contacted by B/R maintain that hiring a Black candidate is another top priority for the Celtics. If Boston can also land someone who has previous head coaching experience, that person would further meet the Celtics' criteria, sources said.”

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2944538-latest-nba-head-coaching-rumors-new-names-emerge-for-biggest-vacancies

this doesn’t mean ime won’t be a great head coach. hopefully he’ll be a championship head coach in boston. but based on numerous reports, including the one linked above, ime doesn’t land an interview or the job, if he’s white. if the races were reversed in this scenario, you’d probably be livid. why is that?

the only agenda should have been to find the absolute best HC candidate for this team, regardless of race or gender.

[Sophomore]

Ime got an interview to be coach because he was a great candidate. Ime was hired because Brad thinks he will be a great coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's because he is a bad head coach.

Ime didn't get an interview to be coach because he was a great "black" candidate. Ime wasn't hired because Brad thinks he will be a great "black" coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's not because he is a bad "black" head coach.

great candidate, based on what?

I hope Brad is right because I really don’t know the body of work he looked at to get to the conclusion that Ime will be a great coach.

I just don’t think Boston is the place for a no coaching experience rookie coach whose team is coming out slow out the gate.

This hire is on Brad.

Do you know who had no NBA coaching experience and lost his first 4 games he coached as an NBA head coach?

Brad Stevens

Ime’s hire is not comparable to Brad. Brad had vast head coaching experience. He was an innovative coach with giant-killer bona fide. The fact that he struggled at the beginning with that resume is not a ringing endorsement for Ime’s hire, it’s a reason to pause. You didn’t answer my question.

He was a great candidate based on his vast experience of learning to be a head coach under one of the best head coaches of all-time, has experience coaching the Celtics current two stars in USA basketball and because he has had positive reviews from superstars he has coached in San Antonio, Philadelphia and Brooklyn.  He was also a 10 year veteran player and that experience is extremely valuable.

you’re trying too hard…and in doing so, ignoring facts that seem to be bothersome for you. like it or not, the C’s had an agenda that had nothing to do with head coaching qualifications. unfortunately, previous head coaching experience was secondary.

from jake fischer’s june 2021 BR article:

“Team personnel contacted by B/R maintain that hiring a Black candidate is another top priority for the Celtics. If Boston can also land someone who has previous head coaching experience, that person would further meet the Celtics' criteria, sources said.”

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2944538-latest-nba-head-coaching-rumors-new-names-emerge-for-biggest-vacancies

this doesn’t mean ime won’t be a great head coach. hopefully he’ll be a championship head coach in boston. but based on numerous reports, including the one linked above, ime doesn’t land an interview or the job, if he’s white. if the races were reversed in this scenario, you’d probably be livid. why is that?

the only agenda should have been to find the absolute best HC candidate for this team, regardless of race or gender.

For a job like nba head coach there is no one best candidate. You have a bunch of guys with impressive resumes who might be capable and people pick based on minor differences or gut feelings. Until very recently you had a large majority of the players who were black and somehow 75-80% of coaches were white. Nearly all coaches are former players in the pros or college; that’s where you find guys who have been around elite coaches and players and who can think the game at a high level. How did it happen that the “best” candidates for the job were so often the white applicants? A lot of people, not unreasonably, concluded that there was bias, and the black candidates were not getting a fair chance. Unsurprisingly they want that to stop.

[Ogaju]

Ime got an interview to be coach because he was a great candidate. Ime was hired because Brad thinks he will be a great coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's because he is a bad head coach.

Ime didn't get an interview to be coach because he was a great "black" candidate. Ime wasn't hired because Brad thinks he will be a great "black" coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's not because he is a bad "black" head coach.

great candidate, based on what?

I hope Brad is right because I really don’t know the body of work he looked at to get to the conclusion that Ime will be a great coach.

I just don’t think Boston is the place for a no coaching experience rookie coach whose team is coming out slow out the gate.

This hire is on Brad.

Do you know who had no NBA coaching experience and lost his first 4 games he coached as an NBA head coach?

Brad Stevens

Ime’s hire is not comparable to Brad. Brad had vast head coaching experience. He was an innovative coach with giant-killer bona fide. The fact that he struggled at the beginning with that resume is not a ringing endorsement for Ime’s hire, it’s a reason to pause. You didn’t answer my question.

He was a great candidate based on his vast experience of learning to be a head coach under one of the best head coaches of all-time, has experience coaching the Celtics current two stars in USA basketball and because he has had positive reviews from superstars he has coached in San Antonio, Philadelphia and Brooklyn.  He was also a 10 year veteran player and that experience is extremely valuable.

Was he ever Popovich’s first assistant?

Was he first assistant on the USA teams?

Players seldom have anything bad to say about one of their’s. Not one Celtic teammate has a criticism of Kyrie.

He was a journeyman, who did not play at a high level. He was never a floor general.

 

[Mahk E Mahk]

Ime got an interview to be coach because he was a great candidate. Ime was hired because Brad thinks he will be a great coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's because he is a bad head coach.

Ime didn't get an interview to be coach because he was a great "black" candidate. Ime wasn't hired because Brad thinks he will be a great "black" coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's not because he is a bad "black" head coach.

great candidate, based on what?

I hope Brad is right because I really don’t know the body of work he looked at to get to the conclusion that Ime will be a great coach.

I just don’t think Boston is the place for a no coaching experience rookie coach whose team is coming out slow out the gate.

This hire is on Brad.

Do you know who had no NBA coaching experience and lost his first 4 games he coached as an NBA head coach?

Brad Stevens

Ime’s hire is not comparable to Brad. Brad had vast head coaching experience. He was an innovative coach with giant-killer bona fide. The fact that he struggled at the beginning with that resume is not a ringing endorsement for Ime’s hire, it’s a reason to pause. You didn’t answer my question.

He was a great candidate based on his vast experience of learning to be a head coach under one of the best head coaches of all-time, has experience coaching the Celtics current two stars in USA basketball and because he has had positive reviews from superstars he has coached in San Antonio, Philadelphia and Brooklyn.  He was also a 10 year veteran player and that experience is extremely valuable.

you’re trying too hard…and in doing so, ignoring facts that seem to be bothersome for you. like it or not, the C’s had an agenda that had nothing to do with head coaching qualifications. unfortunately, previous head coaching experience was secondary.

from jake fischer’s june 2021 BR article:

“Team personnel contacted by B/R maintain that hiring a Black candidate is another top priority for the Celtics. If Boston can also land someone who has previous head coaching experience, that person would further meet the Celtics' criteria, sources said.”

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2944538-latest-nba-head-coaching-rumors-new-names-emerge-for-biggest-vacancies

this doesn’t mean ime won’t be a great head coach. hopefully he’ll be a championship head coach in boston. but based on numerous reports, including the one linked above, ime doesn’t land an interview or the job, if he’s white. if the races were reversed in this scenario, you’d probably be livid. why is that?

the only agenda should have been to find the absolute best HC candidate for this team, regardless of race or gender.

For a job like nba head coach there is no one best candidate. You have a bunch of guys with impressive resumes who might be capable and people pick based on minor differences or gut feelings. Until very recently you had a large majority of the players who were black and somehow 75-80% of coaches were white. Nearly all coaches are former players in the pros or college; that’s where you find guys who have been around elite coaches and players and who can think the game at a high level. How did it happen that the “best” candidates for the job were so often the white applicants? A lot of people, not unreasonably, concluded that there was bias, and the black candidates were not getting a fair chance. Unsurprisingly they want that to stop.

by wanting it to stop, they decided to be guilty of the exact same behavior in reverse? makes zero sense.

[moiso]

Ime got an interview to be coach because he was a great candidate. Ime was hired because Brad thinks he will be a great coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's because he is a bad head coach.

Ime didn't get an interview to be coach because he was a great "black" candidate. Ime wasn't hired because Brad thinks he will be a great "black" coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's not because he is a bad "black" head coach.

great candidate, based on what?

I hope Brad is right because I really don’t know the body of work he looked at to get to the conclusion that Ime will be a great coach.

I just don’t think Boston is the place for a no coaching experience rookie coach whose team is coming out slow out the gate.

This hire is on Brad.

Do you know who had no NBA coaching experience and lost his first 4 games he coached as an NBA head coach?

Brad Stevens

Ime’s hire is not comparable to Brad. Brad had vast head coaching experience. He was an innovative coach with giant-killer bona fide. The fact that he struggled at the beginning with that resume is not a ringing endorsement for Ime’s hire, it’s a reason to pause. You didn’t answer my question.

He was a great candidate based on his vast experience of learning to be a head coach under one of the best head coaches of all-time, has experience coaching the Celtics current two stars in USA basketball and because he has had positive reviews from superstars he has coached in San Antonio, Philadelphia and Brooklyn.  He was also a 10 year veteran player and that experience is extremely valuable.

Was he ever Popovich’s first assistant?

Was he first assistant on the USA teams?

Players seldom have anything bad to say about one of their’s. Not one Celtic teammate has a criticism of Kyrie.

He was a journeyman, who did not play at a high level. He was never a floor general.

I haven't formed an opinion either way yet but this is a good post.  I'm open to the possibility that Udoka being a good looking charismatic guy has enabled him to go a little further in life and gives him an advantage in getting jobs over some coaching candidates with similar basketball and coaching skills.

[nickagneta]

Ime got an interview to be coach because he was a great candidate. Ime was hired because Brad thinks he will be a great coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's because he is a bad head coach.

Ime didn't get an interview to be coach because he was a great "black" candidate. Ime wasn't hired because Brad thinks he will be a great "black" coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's not because he is a bad "black" head coach.

great candidate, based on what?

I hope Brad is right because I really don’t know the body of work he looked at to get to the conclusion that Ime will be a great coach.

I just don’t think Boston is the place for a no coaching experience rookie coach whose team is coming out slow out the gate.

This hire is on Brad.

Do you know who had no NBA coaching experience and lost his first 4 games he coached as an NBA head coach?

Brad Stevens

Ime’s hire is not comparable to Brad. Brad had vast head coaching experience. He was an innovative coach with giant-killer bona fide. The fact that he struggled at the beginning with that resume is not a ringing endorsement for Ime’s hire, it’s a reason to pause. You didn’t answer my question.

He was a great candidate based on his vast experience of learning to be a head coach under one of the best head coaches of all-time, has experience coaching the Celtics current two stars in USA basketball and because he has had positive reviews from superstars he has coached in San Antonio, Philadelphia and Brooklyn.  He was also a 10 year veteran player and that experience is extremely valuable.

you’re trying too hard…and in doing so, ignoring facts that seem to be bothersome for you. like it or not, the C’s had an agenda that had nothing to do with head coaching qualifications. unfortunately, previous head coaching experience was secondary.

from jake fischer’s june 2021 BR article:

“Team personnel contacted by B/R maintain that hiring a Black candidate is another top priority for the Celtics. If Boston can also land someone who has previous head coaching experience, that person would further meet the Celtics' criteria, sources said.”

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2944538-latest-nba-head-coaching-rumors-new-names-emerge-for-biggest-vacancies

this doesn’t mean ime won’t be a great head coach. hopefully he’ll be a championship head coach in boston. but based on numerous reports, including the one linked above, ime doesn’t land an interview or the job, if he’s white. if the races were reversed in this scenario, you’d probably be livid. why is that?

the only agenda should have been to find the absolute best HC candidate for this team, regardless of race or gender.

What? Did you think I wouldn't read the article?

The article certainly made it seem that hiring a black coach was secondary because the first priorities were: being a highly regarded NBA assistant, relating well with players and someone that played in the NBA.

From the article:

The Celtics have already requested an interview with Billups too, as ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski first reported. Billups was one of five assistant coaches Boston contacted for its position, along with Darvin Ham and Charles Lee (Bucks), Ime Udoka (Nets) and Jamahl Mosley (Mavericks). All are highly regarded young coaches who are said to relate well with players—something that appears to be a preference for Boston, as well as having playing experience in the NBA. Of that list, only Mosley and Lee did not reach the league as players.

Then the article mentions your quote.

I stand by everything I said and the article only shows I was right. Every qualification I mentioned was in the article.

If anyone is trying too hard it's you to make a point about race and the color of Ime skin. Is that you just being and spouting your anti-social justice warrior agenda, as you called someone else for the opposite? Or is there another term for that?

[Sophomore]

Ime got an interview to be coach because he was a great candidate. Ime was hired because Brad thinks he will be a great coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's because he is a bad head coach.

Ime didn't get an interview to be coach because he was a great "black" candidate. Ime wasn't hired because Brad thinks he will be a great "black" coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's not because he is a bad "black" head coach.

great candidate, based on what?

I hope Brad is right because I really don’t know the body of work he looked at to get to the conclusion that Ime will be a great coach.

I just don’t think Boston is the place for a no coaching experience rookie coach whose team is coming out slow out the gate.

This hire is on Brad.

Do you know who had no NBA coaching experience and lost his first 4 games he coached as an NBA head coach?

Brad Stevens

Ime’s hire is not comparable to Brad. Brad had vast head coaching experience. He was an innovative coach with giant-killer bona fide. The fact that he struggled at the beginning with that resume is not a ringing endorsement for Ime’s hire, it’s a reason to pause. You didn’t answer my question.

He was a great candidate based on his vast experience of learning to be a head coach under one of the best head coaches of all-time, has experience coaching the Celtics current two stars in USA basketball and because he has had positive reviews from superstars he has coached in San Antonio, Philadelphia and Brooklyn.  He was also a 10 year veteran player and that experience is extremely valuable.

you’re trying too hard…and in doing so, ignoring facts that seem to be bothersome for you. like it or not, the C’s had an agenda that had nothing to do with head coaching qualifications. unfortunately, previous head coaching experience was secondary.

from jake fischer’s june 2021 BR article:

“Team personnel contacted by B/R maintain that hiring a Black candidate is another top priority for the Celtics. If Boston can also land someone who has previous head coaching experience, that person would further meet the Celtics' criteria, sources said.”

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2944538-latest-nba-head-coaching-rumors-new-names-emerge-for-biggest-vacancies

this doesn’t mean ime won’t be a great head coach. hopefully he’ll be a championship head coach in boston. but based on numerous reports, including the one linked above, ime doesn’t land an interview or the job, if he’s white. if the races were reversed in this scenario, you’d probably be livid. why is that?

the only agenda should have been to find the absolute best HC candidate for this team, regardless of race or gender.

For a job like nba head coach there is no one best candidate. You have a bunch of guys with impressive resumes who might be capable and people pick based on minor differences or gut feelings. Until very recently you had a large majority of the players who were black and somehow 75-80% of coaches were white. Nearly all coaches are former players in the pros or college; that’s where you find guys who have been around elite coaches and players and who can think the game at a high level. How did it happen that the “best” candidates for the job were so often the white applicants? A lot of people, not unreasonably, concluded that there was bias, and the black candidates were not getting a fair chance. Unsurprisingly they want that to stop.

by wanting it to stop, they decided to be guilty of the exact same behavior in reverse? makes zero sense.

It’s not the “exact same offense”, which is obvious unless you live in a world of pure theory. If white owners hadnt been putting a thumb in the scale for white coaches for decades, the percentage in those jobs wouldn’t be as wildly different than the % of NBA and major college players as it is. This has persisted even though teams have been saying they want to hire the best coach (have you ever heard an NBA team say: actually we really prefer to hire a white coach). How long do you want people locked out by this system to accept those claims to only be trying to hire the “best coach”? I mean, it’s been decades.

Suppose most companies in the field you work in were owned by people of another race and although they said they only want to hire the best, and something like 80% of the people in the field were your race, people like you never seem to get hired. You and your friends knew you were good and also that you would not get a chance - ever.  At some point I think you’d start telling your bosses: how about hiring one of us.

[nickagneta]

Was he ever Popovich’s first assistant?

Was he first assistant on the USA teams?

Players seldom have anything bad to say about one of their’s. Not one Celtic teammate has a criticism of Kyrie.

He was a journeyman, who did not play at a high level. He was never a floor general.

What does it matter if Ime was Pops' 1st, 3rd or 12th assistant? Udoka coached for 7 years under the best in the business.

What does it matter if Ime was Team USA's 1st, 3rd or 12th assistant? He got the job because Pops thought he was excellent and gave his recommendation for Team USA to hire him.

Who cares if NBA players don't bad mouth other NBA players(a completely wrong premise proven by Embiid's comments on Simmons, Ray Allen's comments on his Celtics team mates, Lebron and Kevin Love's comments on each other, etc., etc.)? Udoka was hired by a non-NBA player.

Bill Russell...not a floor general
Tommy Heinsohn...not a floor general
Billy Cunningham...not a floor general
Jerry Sloan...not a floor general
Steve Kerr...not a floor general
Phil Jackson...not a floor general
Don Nelson...not a floor general
Pat Riley...not a floor general
Rudy Tomjanovich...not a floor general

Clearly you can be not only an amazing coach, but one of the best coaches ever, without being an NBA floor general.

[Mahk E Mahk]

Ime got an interview to be coach because he was a great candidate. Ime was hired because Brad thinks he will be a great coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's because he is a bad head coach.

Ime didn't get an interview to be coach because he was a great "black" candidate. Ime wasn't hired because Brad thinks he will be a great "black" coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's not because he is a bad "black" head coach.

great candidate, based on what?

I hope Brad is right because I really don’t know the body of work he looked at to get to the conclusion that Ime will be a great coach.

I just don’t think Boston is the place for a no coaching experience rookie coach whose team is coming out slow out the gate.

This hire is on Brad.

Do you know who had no NBA coaching experience and lost his first 4 games he coached as an NBA head coach?

Brad Stevens

Ime’s hire is not comparable to Brad. Brad had vast head coaching experience. He was an innovative coach with giant-killer bona fide. The fact that he struggled at the beginning with that resume is not a ringing endorsement for Ime’s hire, it’s a reason to pause. You didn’t answer my question.

He was a great candidate based on his vast experience of learning to be a head coach under one of the best head coaches of all-time, has experience coaching the Celtics current two stars in USA basketball and because he has had positive reviews from superstars he has coached in San Antonio, Philadelphia and Brooklyn.  He was also a 10 year veteran player and that experience is extremely valuable.

you’re trying too hard…and in doing so, ignoring facts that seem to be bothersome for you. like it or not, the C’s had an agenda that had nothing to do with head coaching qualifications. unfortunately, previous head coaching experience was secondary.

from jake fischer’s june 2021 BR article:

“Team personnel contacted by B/R maintain that hiring a Black candidate is another top priority for the Celtics. If Boston can also land someone who has previous head coaching experience, that person would further meet the Celtics' criteria, sources said.”

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2944538-latest-nba-head-coaching-rumors-new-names-emerge-for-biggest-vacancies

this doesn’t mean ime won’t be a great head coach. hopefully he’ll be a championship head coach in boston. but based on numerous reports, including the one linked above, ime doesn’t land an interview or the job, if he’s white. if the races were reversed in this scenario, you’d probably be livid. why is that?

the only agenda should have been to find the absolute best HC candidate for this team, regardless of race or gender.

What? Did you think I wouldn't read the article?

The article certainly made it seem that hiring a black coach was secondary because the first priorities were: being a highly regarded NBA assistant, relating well with players and someone that played in the NBA.

From the article:

The Celtics have already requested an interview with Billups too, as ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski first reported. Billups was one of five assistant coaches Boston contacted for its position, along with Darvin Ham and Charles Lee (Bucks), Ime Udoka (Nets) and Jamahl Mosley (Mavericks). All are highly regarded young coaches who are said to relate well with players—something that appears to be a preference for Boston, as well as having playing experience in the NBA. Of that list, only Mosley and Lee did not reach the league as players.

Then the article mentions your quote.

I stand by everything I said and the article only shows I was right. Every qualification I mentioned was in the article.

If anyone is trying too hard it's you to make a point about race and the color of Ime skin. Is that you just being and spouting your anti-social justice warrior agenda, as you called someone else for the opposite? Or is there another term for that?

i think you need to read the article again. nowhere does it state that “it seem that hiring a black coach was secondary because the first priorities were: being a highly regarded NBA assistant, relating well with players and someone that played in the NBA.” you inferred that to fit your narrative. the quote you copied listed the C’s preferences.  the quote i copied stated hiring a black candidate was a priority for the C’s. it’s preference vs. priority.

i didn’t bring race into this, the C’s did. if that bothers you, take it up with the C’s.

oh, and as for the implication in your last statement, it’s a telltale sign of someone making an emotional argument when they’re out of truth, and it’s only intended to malign someone’s character and cause harm. it’s a shameful and weak tactic used to squelch dialogue and shutdown opposing points of view. this is a worthwhile discussion and, as adults, we should be able to engage in it without name calling. be better.

[mobilija]

Folks are getting way too down after this one. It was a let-up game after a 2OT game against the Knicks where 4 players played huge minutes (45mins). It happens.

There's definitely an element of this (although it didn't seem to impact Timelord, miraculously). But I really want to see our coaching improve. Or at least the lineups we send out

Yeah, Udoka is off to a bad start. I am more nervous about him than I am about the players.

And considering that we hired him without even inquiring about Carlisle's availability.......

if we’re willing to be honest, it’s because rick doesn’t have enough melanin. when you allow non-basketball criteria to drive personnel searches, you get what you deserve. that said, i sincerely hope ime figures it out.

Eeeeesh...icky....

Correct me if I'm wrong but there were several canidates interviewed of different races.

Ime was also widely considered the best of the "unproven" coaches available.

“Eeeeesh...icky....”? lol, sorry if the truth offends your delicate sensibilities or your social justice agenda. it was a well known fact that the C’s were purposefully looking for a minority for the job. it was even discussed on this forum. if it helps your sophisticated social palate, the reverse would have been just as egregious.

no, all official candidates were black men: chauncey billups, darvin ham, charles lee, jamahl mosley and ime. granted, brad “interviewed” four assistants from his staff, but these were clearly professional courtesy interviews. chauncey, ime, and darvin were the only second interviews.

while there were rumors and speculation from the media surrounding kara lawson, becky hammon, sam cassell, lloyd pierce, jason kidd, juwan howard, and mike d’antoni, there wasn’t evidence or official word from the C’s front office regarding these candidates, as there was for the official candidates.

stating that “ime was also widely considered the best of the ‘unproven’ coaches available” supports my point. we have a young, leaderless, underperforming, often lazy team that clearly tuned out their previous coach. why would the C’s hire a first time, unproven coach for this mess of a team? guys like JT, JB, and marcus need a veteran coach with a strong track record who has the credibility to command the locker room and kick some arse.

No social agenda here. I'm not the one that brought up race. You insinuated that we had an inferior coaching hire due to not interviewing enuff white candidates.

It appears you are right tho, only black canidates from outside of the organization were given extensive interviews. If those with their fingers on the pulse of this team felt players would respond best to a young, black coach, i have no problem w that.

As to the actual coaching situation. It's 2 games, 1st time head coach. Its a bit early to be declaring him a bust or on the hot seat. He needs to balance out the rotation, probably our top 5 maybe shouldn't be our starting 5. Finishing 5, sure. But he needs to spread out the skill throughout the rotation for the 1st 3 qtrs.
Also, he needs to light a fire under our  stars and squash the mental lapses, barking at refs, hanging heads, etc. Holding players accountable was supposed to be a strength of his, lets see how it unfolds.

[Mahk E Mahk]

Ime got an interview to be coach because he was a great candidate. Ime was hired because Brad thinks he will be a great coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's because he is a bad head coach.

Ime didn't get an interview to be coach because he was a great "black" candidate. Ime wasn't hired because Brad thinks he will be a great "black" coach. If Ime doesn't succeed it's not because he is a bad "black" head coach.

great candidate, based on what?

I hope Brad is right because I really don’t know the body of work he looked at to get to the conclusion that Ime will be a great coach.

I just don’t think Boston is the place for a no coaching experience rookie coach whose team is coming out slow out the gate.

This hire is on Brad.

Do you know who had no NBA coaching experience and lost his first 4 games he coached as an NBA head coach?

Brad Stevens

Ime’s hire is not comparable to Brad. Brad had vast head coaching experience. He was an innovative coach with giant-killer bona fide. The fact that he struggled at the beginning with that resume is not a ringing endorsement for Ime’s hire, it’s a reason to pause. You didn’t answer my question.

He was a great candidate based on his vast experience of learning to be a head coach under one of the best head coaches of all-time, has experience coaching the Celtics current two stars in USA basketball and because he has had positive reviews from superstars he has coached in San Antonio, Philadelphia and Brooklyn.  He was also a 10 year veteran player and that experience is extremely valuable.

you’re trying too hard…and in doing so, ignoring facts that seem to be bothersome for you. like it or not, the C’s had an agenda that had nothing to do with head coaching qualifications. unfortunately, previous head coaching experience was secondary.

from jake fischer’s june 2021 BR article:

“Team personnel contacted by B/R maintain that hiring a Black candidate is another top priority for the Celtics. If Boston can also land someone who has previous head coaching experience, that person would further meet the Celtics' criteria, sources said.”

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2944538-latest-nba-head-coaching-rumors-new-names-emerge-for-biggest-vacancies

this doesn’t mean ime won’t be a great head coach. hopefully he’ll be a championship head coach in boston. but based on numerous reports, including the one linked above, ime doesn’t land an interview or the job, if he’s white. if the races were reversed in this scenario, you’d probably be livid. why is that?

the only agenda should have been to find the absolute best HC candidate for this team, regardless of race or gender.

For a job like nba head coach there is no one best candidate. You have a bunch of guys with impressive resumes who might be capable and people pick based on minor differences or gut feelings. Until very recently you had a large majority of the players who were black and somehow 75-80% of coaches were white. Nearly all coaches are former players in the pros or college; that’s where you find guys who have been around elite coaches and players and who can think the game at a high level. How did it happen that the “best” candidates for the job were so often the white applicants? A lot of people, not unreasonably, concluded that there was bias, and the black candidates were not getting a fair chance. Unsurprisingly they want that to stop.

by wanting it to stop, they decided to be guilty of the exact same behavior in reverse? makes zero sense.

It’s not the “exact same offense”, which is obvious unless you live in a world of pure theory. If white owners hadnt been putting a thumb in the scale for white coaches for decades, the percentage in those jobs wouldn’t be as wildly different than the % of NBA and major college players as it is. This has persisted even though teams have been saying they want to hire the best coach (have you ever heard an NBA team say: actually we really prefer to hire a white coach). How long do you want people locked out by this system to accept those claims to only be trying to hire the “best coach”? I mean, it’s been decades.

Suppose most companies in the field you work in were owned by people of another race and although they said they only want to hire the best, and something like 80% of the people in the field were your race, people like you never seem to get hired. You and your friends knew you were good and also that you would not get a chance - ever.  At some point I think you’d start telling your bosses: how about hiring one of us.

there’s no doubt that previous hiring practices favored white men and surely there was racism involved. all of this is abhorrent and should be condemned. attempting to make the argument that past sins should be resolved by exercising the same egregious sins in reverse is equally abhorrent. if we all want the same thing (i.e. less racism), the the path forward isn’t more racism.

black men are no longer “locked out by this system” as you stated. 33% of current nba coaches are black men, which compares to the general population of ~7%. comparing this number to the number of black players (74%) is nonsensical, since players are selected based on merit, not race. it should be the same for coaches. full stop.