Wiseman, Minny pick available for perennial all star

[Celtics2021]

"The Warriors reportedly would trade rookie center James Wiseman and/or the Minnesota Timberwolves' top-three protected 2021 first-round pick under just one condition. They would have to acquire a "generational" superstar, the San Francisco Chronicle's Connor Letourneau reported Monday, citing a team source.

"Golden State knows that any discussion for an All-Star-caliber player will begin with the other team asking for one or both of the franchise’s two biggest assets outside of Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson and Draymond Green: the top-three-protected 2021 pick from Minnesota and rookie center James Wiseman," Letourneau wrote Monday.

"But according to a team source, the Warriors 'almost definitely' wouldn’t surrender that Timberwolves selection or Wiseman unless they got back someone generational such as Joel Embiid or Giannis Antetokounmpo."

Doesn't exactly scream "Jaylen Brown"....

If I were the Warriors, I'd be leaking stuff like that too.

I bet they are trying to increase the value of their assets. Good for them. What's the point in saying you'd trade Wiseman + the Minny pick for Giannis or Embiid? Neither of them is available.

Hear ya. But at the end of the day, there IS a huge difference between A and B (Jaylen Brown).

Sure, but no one is going to trade A for James Wiseman and a single pick.  If anything, they're leaking that because they're shopping Wiseman, know it's going to leak, and want to make him feel better that they'd only trade him for an MVP so his feeling aren't hurt in the likely event that no trade ever materializes.

[jambr380]

Giannis or Embiid aren't exactly realistic options. Most teams with a perennial All-Star are looking to contend - at least to some degree. Maybe somebody like Siakam could make sense for both sides. It's not like GSW has time on their side. They have a couple more years max before their window seriously begins to close.

If we did make a Brown deal, we would have to follow it up with several others as we'd be overloaded with Bigs. Others have mentioned Beal; trading Nesmith and a pick for Collins would make sense with Jaylen's money off the books. We'd also still have the TPE.

Kemba, Smart, Tatum, Collins, Wiseman with the TPE and the MIN pick would at least be interesting. We'd still have Theis, TT, TL, Romeo, Pritchard, Oubre. Not saying I'm all-in or anything, but it's the kind of deal that can really help shake up a middling roster.

[todd_days_41]

This would be the type of trade that kicks the can down the road

Not if you use the pick to add another current NBA guy, like for example -- this: https://tradenba.com/trades/sy74uq-Wh (Collins)

or this: https://tradenba.com/trades/HeWVAmTOs (Grant)

[blink]

What is Tatum’s opinion on trading a fellow all-star for two lottery tickets?

that was the first thing I thought as well.  Tatum and Brown are almost there right now.
Waiting 2-3 years for other draft picks to MAYBE develop as well as Brown would have me asking for a trade if I was Tatum

[Tr1boy]

So with that said, would you move Brown for Wiseman, Oubre (for dollars), and the Minny pick (top 3 this year, unprotected in 22)?  Clear uncertainty in the value of the Minny pick, but Wiseman is obviously incredibly talented and Oubre at least is decent to keep Boston in the playoffs this year.  This would be the type of trade that kicks the can down the road, but obviously could put Boston in a more likely championship window in a couple of seasons when Tatum is in his peak, Wiseman is just entering it, and the potential high draft pick adds that 3rd player that is currently not on the team.  Trade also wouldn't foreclose other moves

Yes

To GSW: Brown, Theis and Smart
To Celtics: Wiggins, Wiseman and Minny 1st

TL
Wiseman
Tatum
Wiggins
Walker

TL and Wiseman frontcourt could be nasty

[todd_days_41]

Tatum and Brown are almost there right now.

They are? Team is 20-19, and 0-8 vs leagues Top 5 teams (i believe) this season.

[Donoghus]

Tatum and Brown are almost there right now.

They are? Team is 20-19, and 0-8 vs leagues Top 5 teams (i believe) this season.

I think from a talent standpoint, those two are getting darn close to where they need to be.

The problem is that the supporting cast needs to be shored up.

[todd_days_41]

Tatum and Brown are almost there right now.

They are? Team is 20-19, and 0-8 vs leagues Top 5 teams (i believe) this season.

I think from a talent standpoint, those two are getting darn close to where they need to be.

The problem is that the supporting cast needs to be shored up.

Of course. Therein lies the rub. Can they get anything for Kemba? Do they have to trade Smart to get back some value? Time Lord is one of the only guys with upside on the team, but has a ways to go. They should keep him right? Do guys like Langford and Nesmith have any real value in trading for upgrades?

My point is -- Tatum may really like playing with Jaylen, and may not care about losing. But I don't think these should just be considering givens on Tatum's POV -- especially if the Cs turned the Minny pick into a good vet.

[blink]

Tatum and Brown are almost there right now.

They are? Team is 20-19, and 0-8 vs leagues Top 5 teams (i believe) this season.

Yes Tatum and Brown are almost there.  They are both all stars and still getting better.
The rest of the roster needs to get sorted out and some more talent / vets need to be brought in.

[PhoSita]

you may as well start thinking about where you're going to trade Jayson Tatum, too.

[blink]

you may as well start thinking about where you're going to trade Jayson Tatum, too.

Well if you get rid of Brown right now for lotto picks, would anyone be surprised if Tatum wanted out?

Danny needs to do what needs to be done to build a better team around Tatum and Brown, and it can't be a 3 year plan.
It needs to happen in this off-season and during next season.  Honestly everyone else on the roster should be on the table to accomplish that.

[gouki88]

When they say perennial All-Star they probably mean a perennial All-NBA player like Tatum

[nickagneta]

you may as well start thinking about where you're going to trade Jayson Tatum, too.

Yeah, this is a blow it all the way up trade and pray for excellent picks....again

If you are trading Brown for super young Powerball tickets, you best do the same thing with Tatum. Move him for some MegaMillions tickets and hope by 2026 or 2027 or so that you've hit on those lottery tickets and have two or more guys better than Tatum and Brown are now.

[PhoSita]

Tatum and Brown are almost there right now.

They are? Team is 20-19, and 0-8 vs leagues Top 5 teams (i believe) this season.

In 741 minutes this season with Tatum & Brown on the floor, the Celts score 116.2 points per 100 possessions, while their opponents score 109.8 points.  That's a +6.4 differential.

Those are good numbers even if not world smashing.

In 186 minutes with neither Jayson nor Jaylen on the floor, the Celts have scored 109.1 points per 100 possessions and given up 110.9.  That's a differential of -1.8.  Notably, the Celts score 112.6 points per shot during those minutes, suggesting that a big issue in those minutes is turnovers (i.e. possessions that don't end in shot attempts).


Also worth noting:

In 480 minutes with Jaylen on the floor without Tatum, the Celts score 108.7 points per 100 possessions and give up 115.7 points.  Here again there's a big gap between points per possession and points per play, suggesting turnovers.

In 469 minutes with Tatum on the floor without Jaylen, the Celts score 113.7 points per 100 possessions and give up 112.4 points.



Tatum and Brown are really good together.  The team around them is not good enough for the Celts to really get by with just one of them on the floor, and certainly not for very long when both of them are sitting.

[Moranis]

Tatum and Brown are almost there right now.

They are? Team is 20-19, and 0-8 vs leagues Top 5 teams (i believe) this season.

In 741 minutes this season with Tatum & Brown on the floor, the Celts score 116.2 points per 100 possessions, while their opponents score 109.8 points.  That's a +6.4 differential.

Those are good numbers even if not world smashing.

In 186 minutes with neither Jayson nor Jaylen on the floor, the Celts have scored 109.1 points per 100 possessions and given up 110.9.  That's a differential of -1.8.  Notably, the Celts score 112.6 points per shot during those minutes, suggesting that a big issue in those minutes is turnovers (i.e. possessions that don't end in shot attempts).


Also worth noting:

In 480 minutes with Jaylen on the floor without Tatum, the Celts score 108.7 points per 100 possessions and give up 115.7 points.  Here again there's a big gap between points per possession and points per play, suggesting turnovers.

In 469 minutes with Tatum on the floor without Jaylen, the Celts score 113.7 points per 100 possessions and give up 112.4 points.



Tatum and Brown are really good together.  The team around them is not good enough for the Celts to really get by with just one of them on the floor, and certainly not for very long when both of them are sitting.

These numbers further support what I've been saying for awhile i.e. Tatum is the driver of success.  The fact that the team does better without either than with just Brown speaks volumes.