Shams Says John Collins Is Obtainable...

[GreenlyGreeny]

Just say no to shipping Smart. That’s a step backward. Surely we can get Collins without giving up Smart. I’d give up Pritchard before Smart.

[Somebody]

The difference between Collins as compared to Allen, Wagner and Boucher.  Collins can score the ball consistently, every game.

We need more scoring.  Despite having two stars, our offense is below average.  As we learned last year, our team can accommodate three, or even four, primary scorers.

Hayward kept everyone involved on offense, hence he kept everyone happy. The way I see it, Collins only cares about his own shots.

Imo, we need more passing and shooting, not more scoring. An off-ball specialist can give us a consistent offensive boost and he wouldn't be taking shots away from the Jays. For instance, Seth Curry, Duncan Robinson, Gary Trent Jr, Joe Harris, Otto Porter (he'd be my ideal buyout candidate), prime JJ Redick/Kyle Korver etc. Not saying these guys are available. Just listing some names off the top of my head. Hopefully, Nesmith will make that list one day.

I'd also be happy with a point forward in the mold of Hayward or Joe Ingles, but this type of players are hard to find.

Boston needs talent.  The team as currently constructed just doesn't have enough to ever really and truly compete for a title.  Adding Collins (and then keeping him) goes a very long way to bridging the talent gap needed for Boston to be an actual and realistic contender.

Boston had more than enough talent in 2018/19, yet we were a dysfunctional team. Just because we need talent, it doesn't mean we should go after whomever talented player might become available. I mean, it's not like we are building from scratch. We already got (at least) 2 building blocks in Tatum and Brown. Imo, we gotta build the team around them. Basketball-wise, I believe Collins would be a bad fit next to the Jays. At the same time, he's about to become overpaid. I wouldn't want us to trade for him.

I just don’t get the “bad fit” argument.  An athletic PF who can score from every level and who is a good rebounder and decent defender would be like manna from heaven.

We have two flaws on offense:  lack of ball movement, and the ability to score when jumpers aren’t falling. Collins take some of the burden off of Marcus and Kemba, allowing them to focus more on distribution than scoring. More importantly, he is a dominant player at scoring inside buckets, while also providing excellent spacing.  Teams couldn’t double off of him, and he’d force mismatches both inside and on the perimeter.

Sure, we also need role players, but let’s lock down an elite core first.

I expanded on this in my previous posts. Long story short, all 3 of Tatum, Brown and Collins are score-first players. Collins would have to adjust in a complementary role behind the Jays. With this in mind, imo we'd be better off targeting an off-ball specialist who'd be perfectly happy to play 3rd fiddle on offense. Imo, Collins would be a bad fit in our defensive system as well. He ain't got the lateral quickness to switch ball screens on the perimeter.

Collins doesn't need to adjust at all. He mainly scores being the roll/pop man, cutter or spot up shooter with the occasional post up and putback - he doesn't even have enough isolation possessions to have isolation tracking data so far this season. He would be a perfect target man for our stars who are all tasked to create rather than being a traditional low post stud who mucks up everything, he is exactly the off-ball specialist you're pining for.

He can definitely switch ball screens on the perimeter. He's no Kevin Garnett out there, but he can swivel his hips and stay with perimeter players quite well from what I've seen of him.

[byennie]

The contract is a gamble, but there’s some serious talent there. He’s basically KAT light putting up 20/10 with 50/40/80+ splits.

If you can get him for 2 or 3 assets in the Langford, Nesmith, future 1sts bundle the risk reward is pretty appealing.

Walker / Brown / Tatum / Collins / Theis would be a potent lineup with PP, Smart, RWill, TT as key backups.

[gouki88]

The difference between Collins as compared to Allen, Wagner and Boucher.  Collins can score the ball consistently, every game.

We need more scoring.  Despite having two stars, our offense is below average.  As we learned last year, our team can accommodate three, or even four, primary scorers.

Hayward kept everyone involved on offense, hence he kept everyone happy. The way I see it, Collins only cares about his own shots.

Imo, we need more passing and shooting, not more scoring. An off-ball specialist can give us a consistent offensive boost and he wouldn't be taking shots away from the Jays. For instance, Seth Curry, Duncan Robinson, Gary Trent Jr, Joe Harris, Otto Porter (he'd be my ideal buyout candidate), prime JJ Redick/Kyle Korver etc. Not saying these guys are available. Just listing some names off the top of my head. Hopefully, Nesmith will make that list one day.

I'd also be happy with a point forward in the mold of Hayward or Joe Ingles, but this type of players are hard to find.

Boston needs talent.  The team as currently constructed just doesn't have enough to ever really and truly compete for a title.  Adding Collins (and then keeping him) goes a very long way to bridging the talent gap needed for Boston to be an actual and realistic contender.

Boston had more than enough talent in 2018/19, yet we were a dysfunctional team. Just because we need talent, it doesn't mean we should go after whomever talented player might become available. I mean, it's not like we are building from scratch. We already got (at least) 2 building blocks in Tatum and Brown. Imo, we gotta build the team around them. Basketball-wise, I believe Collins would be a bad fit next to the Jays. At the same time, he's about to become overpaid. I wouldn't want us to trade for him.

I just don’t get the “bad fit” argument.  An athletic PF who can score from every level and who is a good rebounder and decent defender would be like manna from heaven.

Sure, we also need role players, but let’s lock down an elite core first.

I’m with you on this. I’d give up our ‘21 1st, ‘23 1st and ‘25 1st with swaps on ‘22 and ‘24, including Nesmith or Langford, if that’s what it took to get Collins. He’s only 23 and he’s averaging a double-double already. Perfect number three guy in a Big 3 with the Super Jay Bros.

And here's the other end of the spectrum. 5 first round picks and our most recent or second most recent lotto pick? Wow!

[Tr1boy]

No thx to Collins

Just wings it on D. D effort

No reason for Atl to give up on him.  There is a reason why they are willing to

[Androslav]

No thx to Collins

Just wings it on D. D effort

No reason for Atl to give up on him.  There is a reason why they are willing to

Atlanta clearly doesn't want to sign his 2nd (big) contract.

[ball4life67]

Just say no to shipping Smart. That’s a step backward. Surely we can get Collins without giving up Smart. I’d give up Pritchard before Smart.

No thx to Collins

Just wings it on D. D effort

No reason for Atl to give up on him.  There is a reason why they are willing to

Atlanta clearly doesn't want to sign his 2nd (big) contract.

Not even true. Hawks want a high lottery pick in 21 draft or all nba player for Collins so they clearly value him highly. They won’t sell low.

And Collins has less than 21% usage (which is less than most 3rd options). I have no clue where anyone gets that he needs the ball or is demanding the ball. Hawks DRTG with him at the 4 is 104....his lateral quickness is actually pretty good.

[todd_days_41]

If all it takes is a lottery pick, Danny needs to land one, or offer the equivalent.  I’ve been advocating Smart + Timelord + two #1s for Collins + Snell + Dunn.  This report suggests that could be an overpay.

Please do not put Williams in the deal. I believe he would be a key piece along side Collins, Tatum and Brown — and the Hawks have young bigs already.

I’m one of the people here who is ok shipping Smart for Collins. He makes some sense for ATL. He has some value in trade.

I see Smart a little like Avery Bradley... a guy Ainge loves, one he hates to trade. But folks thought the ski would fall if / when he was traded, and it didn’t. 

You have to give something to get something and our asset pool has weakened considerably since the MEM and SAC picks didn’t materialize into premium assets, and Kemba hasn’t really panned out at his coat level.

[td450]

If all it takes is a lottery pick, Danny needs to land one, or offer the equivalent.  I’ve been advocating Smart + Timelord + two #1s for Collins + Snell + Dunn.  This report suggests that could be an overpay.

Please do not put Williams in the deal. I believe he would be a key piece along side Collins, Tatum and Brown — and the Hawks have young bigs already.

I’m one of the people here who is ok shipping Smart for Collins. He makes some sense for ATL. He has some value in trade.

I see Smart a little like Avery Bradley... a guy Ainge loves, one he hates to trade. But folks thought the ski would fall if / when he was traded, and it didn’t. 

You have to give something to get something and our asset pool has weakened considerably since the MEM and SAC picks didn’t materialize into premium assets, and Kemba hasn’t really panned out at his coat level.

I think Smart should be considered too. A guy like Collins absorbs 32 minutes, and that needs to come from somewhere.

A better version of this team owes Robert Williams, Nesmith and soon Langford more minutes as time goes on.

To balance this, I would say minutes for Ojeleye, GWill, Green, Thompson and Teague are sacrificed, but that doesn't provide room for both Collins and Smart.

[Roy H.]

If all it takes is a lottery pick, Danny needs to land one, or offer the equivalent.  I’ve been advocating Smart + Timelord + two #1s for Collins + Snell + Dunn.  This report suggests that could be an overpay.

Please do not put Williams in the deal. I believe he would be a key piece along side Collins, Tatum and Brown — and the Hawks have young bigs already.

I’m one of the people here who is ok shipping Smart for Collins. He makes some sense for ATL. He has some value in trade.

I see Smart a little like Avery Bradley... a guy Ainge loves, one he hates to trade. But folks thought the ski would fall if / when he was traded, and it didn’t. 

You have to give something to get something and our asset pool has weakened considerably since the MEM and SAC picks didn’t materialize into premium assets, and Kemba hasn’t really panned out at his coat level.

I think Smart should be considered too. A guy like Collins absorbs 32 minutes, and that needs to come from somewhere.

A better version of this team owes Robert Williams, Nesmith and soon Langford more minutes as time goes on.

To balance this, I would say minutes for Ojeleye, GWill, Green, Thompson and Teague are sacrificed, but that doesn't provide room for both Collins and Smart.

I think that if we could keep Smart, the minutes would be there. I mean, we found minutes for Hayward last year.  As you mentioned, there are a lot of poor players getting minutes right now.

[td450]

Just say no to shipping Smart. That’s a step backward. Surely we can get Collins without giving up Smart. I’d give up Pritchard before Smart.

If you get Collins and keep Smart, you are only leaving barely enough minutes for one other lesser rotation role. That's kind of giving up on Pritchard, Nesmith and Langford.

Everyone loves Smart, but that's a mistake. If we could get Collins for Smart and a 1st, we should absolutely do it. That leaves some space for three young guards, all with a lot of talent, to develop.  It is entirely possible that any, or even all of those three players can become better than Smart is now.

[seancally]

Just say no to shipping Smart. That’s a step backward. Surely we can get Collins without giving up Smart. I’d give up Pritchard before Smart.

If you get Collins and keep Smart, you are only leaving barely enough minutes for one other lesser rotation role. That's kind of giving up on Pritchard, Nesmith and Langford.

Everyone loves Smart, but that's a mistake. If we could get Collins for Smart and a 1st, we should absolutely do it. That leaves some space for three young guards, all with a lot of talent, to develop.  It is entirely possible that any, or even all of those three players can become better than Smart is now.

I agree with this. Smart has a ceiling. He’s at it. Yes he’s become an average (if maddeningly streaky) 3-pt shooter. Yes he’s a good playmaker and obviously a tremendous defender. He is a better Avery Bradley. He’s also got a good, tradeable contract and is one of our only players who is both good/young enough to be enticing to another team, but not so good that trading him would ruin us (depending on the return). We’ve got guys like Pritchard and Langford in the hopper, who can both be high-energy, hustle, hard-nosed players off the bench who provide a little shooting/offense/playmaking.

I’m sorry but Smart is not a hard player to find. Collins is a very hard player to find. Every draft turns out some athletic combo guard who plays good D and can’t shoot. And we always find them!

[Vermont Green]

A high first round pick seems like fair value for Collins.  There was a report that "sources" were saying Danny is up to something.  That "something" may be trying to get a pick that is high enough for ATL (our picks likely are not).

You would think a team like OKC, Pistons, or the Knicks would be willing to trade for Collins.  Not sure why another team would want to help us get him.

[wdleehi]

I wonder if the Wiz would trade Beal for Collins (and some other pieces and draft picks)




As for the Celtics, I am all for attempting to get him.   I don't want to see Tatum, Brown or Smart in the deal.   (not way Walker ends up in it as well)

A combination of young players and 1st round picks.   Three of those pieces if the Celtics are willing to resign Collins next year.  (it is going to be a max deal.  To many teams with money)

[wdleehi]

Is there a contract on the Hawks they might want a team to take back?