Celtics (11-9) at Clippers (17-6) Game #21 2/5/21

[liam]

Grant, Edwards, PP went a combined 8-12 in 3s

Thats superb bench production

You're right. If they can get anything close to that night in and night out that's solid.

[Goldstar88]

Boston won yet another game against a great team without Jaylen Brown.  At some point will this board finally catch up to the idea that the only person that truly matters is Tatum.  He is the guy everyone else is just filler.

I hope it is a joke ! We may not forget that we missed our omega player and our defensive dog, but so did they with George and Beverley. It must relativise our win. Tatum almost lost two balls in the last 2 mns with a 3 point missed. Still question about his clutchitude. Whatever if we win it all at one time it will be because of our duo

Of course it isn't a joke.  I've been saying it for years.  In fact since Tatum joined the team, Boston is well below .500 without him and actually wins a greater rate when Brown misses games and it is around 40 games missed by Brown (so a decent sample size).  Last year, Brown missed 15 games and Boston went 10-5, the exact same win percentage in the games he played while Boston was 2-4 without Tatum and 2-3 without Tatum thus far this year.  Entering tonight, Boston is 13.1 points per 100 possessions better with Tatum on the floor than with him off and just 2.3 better with Brown than without him.  And it doesn't matter who Tatum plays with, the results are the same when you hit a big enough sample size no matter what 4 you put on the floor with him.  Tatum is the person that drives Boston's success and he has driven it since basically the first game he played.  No one else really matters to that discussion as the team wins at around the same rate, if not better, when basically any other player misses games.  Just not the case with Tatum.

Tatum is the most important piece on the team, but to lump Jaylen in with all of the other guys on the team is ridiculous. Tatum isn’t winning in the playoffs without Jaylen.

[scottwedman]

Boston won yet another game against a great team without Jaylen Brown.  At some point will this board finally catch up to the idea that the only person that truly matters is Tatum.  He is the guy everyone else is just filler.

Brown is arguably better than Tatum. The best strategy is to keep both of those guys for a decade.

Agreed.

[Jiri Welsch]

It's okay to have two great players guys! They are really allowed to be on the same team. We don't have to get rid of Brown because Tatum had a great game. Unreal, I know!!

Edit: Just Moranis, not "guys"

[Moranis]

Boston won yet another game against a great team without Jaylen Brown.  At some point will this board finally catch up to the idea that the only person that truly matters is Tatum.  He is the guy everyone else is just filler.

I hope it is a joke ! We may not forget that we missed our omega player and our defensive dog, but so did they with George and Beverley. It must relativise our win. Tatum almost lost two balls in the last 2 mns with a 3 point missed. Still question about his clutchitude. Whatever if we win it all at one time it will be because of our duo

Of course it isn't a joke.  I've been saying it for years.  In fact since Tatum joined the team, Boston is well below .500 without him and actually wins a greater rate when Brown misses games and it is around 40 games missed by Brown (so a decent sample size).  Last year, Brown missed 15 games and Boston went 10-5, the exact same win percentage in the games he played while Boston was 2-4 without Tatum and 2-3 without Tatum thus far this year.  Entering tonight, Boston is 13.1 points per 100 possessions better with Tatum on the floor than with him off and just 2.3 better with Brown than without him.  And it doesn't matter who Tatum plays with, the results are the same when you hit a big enough sample size no matter what 4 you put on the floor with him.  Tatum is the person that drives Boston's success and he has driven it since basically the first game he played.  No one else really matters to that discussion as the team wins at around the same rate, if not better, when basically any other player misses games.  Just not the case with Tatum.

Tatum is the most important piece on the team, but to lump Jaylen in with all of the other guys on the team is ridiculous. Tatum isn’t winning in the playoffs without Jaylen.

How do you know?  Brown has missed 2 playoff games in his career (one of them was his rookie year so can't put any real stock in that).  Boston won both of them.  Without Brown in the regular season last year, Boston went 4-3 against playoff teams and is 1-0 this year (I'm going to assume LA makes the playoffs). 

The simple reality is Boston wins games at a higher percentage when Brown doesn't play then when Brown does play since Tatum joined the team.  That is a fact.  It is basically a fact for every player that isn't Tatum. 

Brown is a great player, but he just doesn't meaningfully impact the only thing that really matters at the end of the day and that is wins and losses.  He never has.  Maybe he will someday, maybe even soon, but thus far in his career he just doesn't move the needle.

[Somebody]

Boston won yet another game against a great team without Jaylen Brown.  At some point will this board finally catch up to the idea that the only person that truly matters is Tatum.  He is the guy everyone else is just filler.

Brown is arguably better than Tatum. The best strategy is to keep both of those guys for a decade.

Really don't see the point of saying this to a guy who thinks that everything about this win was on Tatum when Kemba came alive for the first time this season while the Clippers were missing George (who might be better than Tatum and Brown) and Beverley.

[SparzWizard]

So when the Celtics win, it's trade Brown!!!

But when the Celtics lose, trade Kemba and fire Brad!!!

Still like the Fire Brad idea though.

[Celtics Mike]

Delighted to see Kemba produce the goods in the 4th

[Somebody]

Boston won yet another game against a great team without Jaylen Brown.  At some point will this board finally catch up to the idea that the only person that truly matters is Tatum.  He is the guy everyone else is just filler.

I do agree that Tatum is our most important player. He bends the opposing defense in ways that Brown simply can't at this point. Calling everyone else "filler" is hyperbolic though.

He also dominates the ball in ways that Brown isn't allowed to when they both share the court - Jaylen really strained defences when the team utilised him more at the start of the season.

[RPGenerate]

For the past two years, these Clippers-Celtics matchups have been absolute bangers. Every game feels like a pure balls to the walls adrenaline rush. That double overtime game on Valentines Day last year was one of the craziest games I've seen.

[blink]

Boston won yet another game against a great team without Jaylen Brown.  At some point will this board finally catch up to the idea that the only person that truly matters is Tatum.  He is the guy everyone else is just filler.

I hope it is a joke ! We may not forget that we missed our omega player and our defensive dog, but so did they with George and Beverley. It must relativise our win. Tatum almost lost two balls in the last 2 mns with a 3 point missed. Still question about his clutchitude. Whatever if we win it all at one time it will be because of our duo

Of course it isn't a joke.  I've been saying it for years.  In fact since Tatum joined the team, Boston is well below .500 without him and actually wins a greater rate when Brown misses games and it is around 40 games missed by Brown (so a decent sample size).  Last year, Brown missed 15 games and Boston went 10-5, the exact same win percentage in the games he played while Boston was 2-4 without Tatum and 2-3 without Tatum thus far this year.  Entering tonight, Boston is 13.1 points per 100 possessions better with Tatum on the floor than with him off and just 2.3 better with Brown than without him.  And it doesn't matter who Tatum plays with, the results are the same when you hit a big enough sample size no matter what 4 you put on the floor with him.  Tatum is the person that drives Boston's success and he has driven it since basically the first game he played.  No one else really matters to that discussion as the team wins at around the same rate, if not better, when basically any other player misses games.  Just not the case with Tatum.

Tatum is the most important piece on the team, but to lump Jaylen in with all of the other guys on the team is ridiculous. Tatum isn’t winning in the playoffs without Jaylen.

How do you know?  Brown has missed 2 playoff games in his career (one of them was his rookie year so can't put any real stock in that).  Boston won both of them.  Without Brown in the regular season last year, Boston went 4-3 against playoff teams and is 1-0 this year (I'm going to assume LA makes the playoffs). 

The simple reality is Boston wins games at a higher percentage when Brown doesn't play then when Brown does play since Tatum joined the team.  That is a fact.  It is basically a fact for every player that isn't Tatum. 

Brown is a great player, but he just doesn't meaningfully impact the only thing that really matters at the end of the day and that is wins and losses.  He never has.  Maybe he will someday, maybe even soon, but thus far in his career he just doesn't move the needle.

omg come on.  The sample size you are listing is so small.  It feels like you are missing the forest for the trees with your take on Brown.

lol.  I know you have some really good posts sometimes, but the total distain that you have for Brown is just too much.  I don't get it.  We have two great young players, and we need BOTH of them.

[Rikibellevie]

Boston won yet another game against a great team without Jaylen Brown.  At some point will this board finally catch up to the idea that the only person that truly matters is Tatum.  He is the guy everyone else is just filler.

I hope it is a joke ! We may not forget that we missed our omega player and our defensive dog, but so did they with George and Beverley. It must relativise our win. Tatum almost lost two balls in the last 2 mns with a 3 point missed. Still question about his clutchitude. Whatever if we win it all at one time it will be because of our duo

Of course it isn't a joke.  I've been saying it for years.  In fact since Tatum joined the team, Boston is well below .500 without him and actually wins a greater rate when Brown misses games and it is around 40 games missed by Brown (so a decent sample size).  Last year, Brown missed 15 games and Boston went 10-5, the exact same win percentage in the games he played while Boston was 2-4 without Tatum and 2-3 without Tatum thus far this year.  Entering tonight, Boston is 13.1 points per 100 possessions better with Tatum on the floor than with him off and just 2.3 better with Brown than without him.  And it doesn't matter who Tatum plays with, the results are the same when you hit a big enough sample size no matter what 4 you put on the floor with him.  Tatum is the person that drives Boston's success and he has driven it since basically the first game he played.  No one else really matters to that discussion as the team wins at around the same rate, if not better, when basically any other player misses games.  Just not the case with Tatum.

Tatum is the most important piece on the team, but to lump Jaylen in with all of the other guys on the team is ridiculous. Tatum isn’t winning in the playoffs without Jaylen.

How do you know?  Brown has missed 2 playoff games in his career (one of them was his rookie year so can't put any real stock in that).  Boston won both of them.  Without Brown in the regular season last year, Boston went 4-3 against playoff teams and is 1-0 this year (I'm going to assume LA makes the playoffs). 

The simple reality is Boston wins games at a higher percentage when Brown doesn't play then when Brown does play since Tatum joined the team.  That is a fact.  It is basically a fact for every player that isn't Tatum. 

Brown is a great player, but he just doesn't meaningfully impact the only thing that really matters at the end of the day and that is wins and losses.  He never has.  Maybe he will someday, maybe even soon, but thus far in his career he just doesn't move the needle.

To say Brown is just a filler is an undefendable position.

Basketball is not only about Billy Beane and statistics. We could also look at the 4th quarter stats or last 2 mns stats of Tatum since last year and esp in Po and I guess it is not good. So we could argue by this stat that he is a liabilty to end the match...

I love Tatum, I really do. He is our best offensive option by far and Brad give him the ball during crunch time. But Jaylen is such polished player whom this year progression will pay I am sure in PO. His role has also to increase to permit him to be more decisive.
You say it is not with 2 matches in PO without Jaylen we can judge him. But we can make the same reflexion in the other way. Even Le Bron with bad supporting cast didn't make the PO in LA and were crushed in final with a correct one in Cleveland. Tatum need Brown and Boston need both. He isn't at all a trade chip that is crazy to say.

Last thing that may make imagine the role of Jaylen : since he opens his mouth about his defense (taking it like a leader on his shoulder but all the team s....ed then), our defense is much better... His voice coutn also in our team and wins... Not only his game and his defense

[BringToughnessBack]

What happened to us not winning any games on this trip and how much we would lose by tonight as the big thing? Tatum is the one..Brown close behind....we are at the precipice of greatness. Two superstars so young and still prime years ahead of them.

[Rikibellevie]

Grant, Edwards, PP went a combined 8-12 in 3s

Thats superb bench production

You're right. If they can get anything close to that night in and night out that's solid.

Yes but unfortunately I guess it won't happen for two of them at least... Grant may become someone usefull in the future, maybe -very maybe- Carsen too; but for now we still need better bench players to take them, Ojeleye and Green minutes.

[liam]

For the past two years, these Clippers-Celtics matchups have been absolute bangers. Every game feels like a pure balls to the walls adrenaline rush. That double overtime game on Valentines Day last year was one of the craziest games I've seen.

It's going to make a wonderful finals series.