Author Topic: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?  (Read 10026 times)

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Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #105 on: January 26, 2021, 08:00:09 AM »

Offline td450

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So Nesmith had a second consecutive night 3-5 on 3's.

There's nothing that's happened with either of these two that we shouldn't expect will go away shortly. Nerves, nagging injuries that shouldn't affect long term health.

Flip this script for a second, and consider if by year's end, they settle in. We have two more athletic 6'6 wings that can both be trusted on defense. One is a crafty slasher, and one is an elite shooter with deep range. Let's say we can get 15 quality minutes out of each guy. Isn't that pretty standard stuff for a couple of #14's?

By next year, at least one of them is good enough to start. By year three, they are both good enough to start for most teams.

That isn't that unrealistic. How would you feel then?

Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #106 on: January 26, 2021, 08:14:05 AM »

Offline td450

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So Nesmith had a second consecutive night 3-5 on 3's.

There's nothing that's happened with either of these two that we shouldn't expect will go away shortly. Nerves, nagging injuries that shouldn't affect long term health.

Flip this script for a second, and consider if by year's end, they settle in. We will have added two more athletic 6'6 wings that haven't really been part of the team composition at all until now. Both be trusted on defense. One is a crafty slasher, and one is an elite shooter with deep range. Let's say we can get 15 quality minutes out of each guy. Isn't that pretty standard stuff for a couple of #14's?

By next year, at least one of them is good enough to start. By year three, they are both good enough to start for most teams.

That isn't that unrealistic. How would you feel then?

Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #107 on: January 26, 2021, 08:27:06 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Nesmith is more athletic than I realized.  He really moves well on the court and has surprising hops.  That is all the "can't teach" stuff.

So far, he is still a little clunky with his shot release.  He is not getting set as the pass comes in, slowing his release, and he is kind of rushing the release overall.  That appears to have settled down some in the last couple of games.

I am sure he will continue to have ups and downs but what he has shown in these last couple of games is that he does have it in him.  I have gone from thinking he would underachieve relative to my draft expectations for him to now thinking he is going to exceed my expectations.  It is surprising that there could be that much change in just a couple of games.

Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #108 on: January 26, 2021, 08:29:08 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Nesmith is more athletic than I realized.  He really moves well on the court and has surprising hops.  That is all the "can't teach" stuff.

So far, he is still a little clunky with his shot release.  He is not getting set as the pass comes in, slowing his release, and he is kind of rushing the release overall.  That appears to have settled down some in the last couple of games.

I am sure he will continue to have ups and downs but what he has shown in these last couple of games is that he does have it in him.  I have gone from thinking he would underachieve relative to my draft expectations for him to now thinking he is going to exceed my expectations.  It is surprising that there could be that much change in just a couple of games.

Good points

He needs to practice the corner 3s

Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #109 on: January 26, 2021, 08:34:13 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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I think because he had the skill set that the Celtics needed (outside shooting and play the swing position), we may have over expected his ability to step right in and play.   

Growth is good.   Hitting shots is good for confidence.   

Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #110 on: January 26, 2021, 08:40:25 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Nesmith is more athletic than I realized.  He really moves well on the court and has surprising hops.  That is all the "can't teach" stuff.

So far, he is still a little clunky with his shot release.  He is not getting set as the pass comes in, slowing his release, and he is kind of rushing the release overall.  That appears to have settled down some in the last couple of games.

I am sure he will continue to have ups and downs but what he has shown in these last couple of games is that he does have it in him.  I have gone from thinking he would underachieve relative to my draft expectations for him to now thinking he is going to exceed my expectations.  It is surprising that there could be that much change in just a couple of games.

I like the kids hustle.  Running the length of the court to break up that Lavine layup was pretty awesome.

In a lot of ways, I think his defense is ahead of his offense right now.  At least in terms of his comfort level. If you watch him closely, on offense he generally just goes to the corner and hangs out hoping for a pass.  I’m not sure if that is Brad trying to ease him in, or if that’s all that he is ready for overall. The one time the Celts set a screen for him, he buried it.

So, there is a lot of potential there. He’s got length, athleticism, and based upon last season and college plus his drills, an amazing shot.
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Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #111 on: January 27, 2021, 11:17:07 AM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Nesmith is more athletic than I realized.  He really moves well on the court and has surprising hops.  That is all the "can't teach" stuff.

So far, he is still a little clunky with his shot release.  He is not getting set as the pass comes in, slowing his release, and he is kind of rushing the release overall.  That appears to have settled down some in the last couple of games.

I am sure he will continue to have ups and downs but what he has shown in these last couple of games is that he does have it in him.  I have gone from thinking he would underachieve relative to my draft expectations for him to now thinking he is going to exceed my expectations.  It is surprising that there could be that much change in just a couple of games.

I like the kids hustle.  Running the length of the court to break up that Lavine layup was pretty awesome.

In a lot of ways, I think his defense is ahead of his offense right now.  At least in terms of his comfort level. If you watch him closely, on offense he generally just goes to the corner and hangs out hoping for a pass.  I’m not sure if that is Brad trying to ease him in, or if that’s all that he is ready for overall. The one time the Celts set a screen for him, he buried it.

So, there is a lot of potential there. He’s got length, athleticism, and based upon last season and college plus his drills, an amazing shot.

I would only add, burst and speed; and he’s got reach/extension, meaning not just length but the ability to use it. You hear people say ‘quick twitch’.

The right-hand drive into the lane for the 8-footer in Javale’s chest was something of an eye-opener.

Look out, Romeo.
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Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #112 on: January 27, 2021, 11:22:20 AM »

Offline dannyboy35

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 Probably been said snd he’s not our TOP priority. It can also be said for pretty much hasn’t role player too, but he’d likely play much better, shoot better when playing with the vets. I’m a little intrigued. Like will this guy be able to provide something we can count on by the playoffs? Just a game like this ya gotta think it’s at least possible. It’s probably a perfect game for him getting good minutes with other starters vs a bad team. Good reps for Nesmith.

Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #113 on: January 27, 2021, 12:48:11 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I agree with Roy -- what stands out to me right now about Nesmith is how hard he hustles.  Part of that too is how quickly he changes speed.

His handle is super rudimentary and his spot up jumper looks solid but a little bit slow. 

As long as he hustles really hard, puts in as much effort as possible on defense, and shows gradual improvement, he'll continue to get playing time.  Whether he can become better than Semi Ojeleye at some point will depend on how well and how quickly he develops some ability to attack the basket and pass.
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Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #114 on: January 27, 2021, 02:43:52 PM »

Offline Birdman

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I like Nesmith.. just give him time to adjust to the NBA..should have a good career
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Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #115 on: January 27, 2021, 02:44:30 PM »

Online byennie

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I agree with Roy -- what stands out to me right now about Nesmith is how hard he hustles.  Part of that too is how quickly he changes speed.

His handle is super rudimentary and his spot up jumper looks solid but a little bit slow. 

As long as he hustles really hard, puts in as much effort as possible on defense, and shows gradual improvement, he'll continue to get playing time.  Whether he can become better than Semi Ojeleye at some point will depend on how well and how quickly he develops some ability to attack the basket and pass.

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but to be fair, Semi is an average 3pt shooter at medium volume. The target with Nesmith is go be a good-to-elite shooter at high volumes. Roughly the difference between a guy that gives you a little over 2-for-6 and one that's closer to 4-for-9, or double the production. It really adds up - the former is averaging under 6ppg in his best offensive season, the latter is almost certainly in the double digits.

Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #116 on: January 27, 2021, 02:56:18 PM »

Offline tonydelk

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I agree with Roy -- what stands out to me right now about Nesmith is how hard he hustles.  Part of that too is how quickly he changes speed.

His handle is super rudimentary and his spot up jumper looks solid but a little bit slow. 

As long as he hustles really hard, puts in as much effort as possible on defense, and shows gradual improvement, he'll continue to get playing time.  Whether he can become better than Semi Ojeleye at some point will depend on how well and how quickly he develops some ability to attack the basket and pass.

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but to be fair, Semi is an average 3pt shooter at medium volume. The target with Nesmith is go be a good-to-elite shooter at high volumes. Roughly the difference between a guy that gives you a little over 2-for-6 and one that's closer to 4-for-9, or double the production. It really adds up - the former is averaging under 6ppg in his best offensive season, the latter is almost certainly in the double digits.

If were are comparing shooting Nesmith is already a better shooter the Semi.  Sweet release and form.  Semi has to work constantly at having consistent form.  It comes easy for Nesmith.  I hope the C's can get Nesmith on the Jaylen Brown training play for improving handles.  Let him work with Fast PP.  You can tell the talent is there and from all notes you hear about Nesmith he's a hard worker.  I feel Nesmith will be a starting level wing/guard in two years.  Better then a Redick or Ugly Ashton Kucher (can't remember his name)  Nesmith has great hustle and he blocks out.  Every time he's in the game he looks for a man to block out.  I wish Timemlord would do that versus trying to out jump everyone. 

Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #117 on: January 27, 2021, 06:18:02 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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I can't help but note that Nesmith's mid-first-round draft slot projection (which is where he ended up at #14) included the discount due to his injury and the uncertainty of not having played since those early few games.

If he had not gotten injured, I think there is a reasonable chance he would have gone top-10.

Given how he looks now that he's healthy and finally getting some minutes to shake all the rust off and to make progress, I think there is a good chance his future NBA value return will be way over his draft slot.

I get annoyed at how some fans try to equate him with Duncan Robinson.  I think that sells Nesmith's potential short.   Yes, Robinson is an elite shooter.  But that's almost all that he is.  Nesmith looks like he is going to be able to bring a larger variety of skills to the game, in addition to being a (potentially) elite shooter.
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Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #118 on: January 28, 2021, 07:49:29 AM »

Offline celts55

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I must admit, I'm pretty confused how Nesmith is supposed to improve when Brad puts him out there for 5 minutes?

I know he missed a shot and had a turnover, but he was working hard and made a really nice play on the defensive end.

In general, I wish Brad would figure out who's in the rotation, and give them some consistent minutes.

Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #119 on: January 28, 2021, 08:09:37 AM »

Offline jambr380

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I must admit, I'm pretty confused how Nesmith is supposed to improve when Brad puts him out there for 5 minutes?

I know he missed a shot and had a turnover, but he was working hard and made a really nice play on the defensive end.

In general, I wish Brad would figure out who's in the rotation, and give them some consistent minutes.

It's better than a DNP every game. Obviously it isn't enough time, but he is getting real non-garbage NBA minutes. He is going to have to prove himself in spurts - that's just how it is for picks outside of the the top 10 on good/great teams. If he keeps hustling, making the right pass, and hitting the occasional 3, Brad will likely start to have more trust in him. We are also pretty healthy right now at his position; if any of our wings go down, he will get more time out of necessity and really have time to show what he can offer.