Author Topic: Election Day (Congrats President Elect Biden)  (Read 33926 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Election Day (Congrats President Elect Biden)
« Reply #1080 on: November 21, 2020, 11:17:14 AM »

Online Neurotic Guy

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17005
  • Tommy Points: 1880
Unfortunately, in a poll I saw from Politico, 70% of Republicans believe that the election was not 'free and fair'. That is so dangerous for our democracy moving forward. Even the candidate who won by 3M votes last election conceded the next day.

I think Trump supporters have a valid reason to view things with skepticism and distrust. When the Democrats and the media collude to cover Trump with 95% negative stories, collude to bury any criticism of Biden in the weeks leading up to the election, and push a false impeachment narrative which has now been shown to be based on specious evidence, it isn't difficult to see why Trump and his supporters are hardly trusting at this point.

We're in for another four years of "He's not my president," and it would not surprise me to see just as much hatred being spewed from the right as we've been seeing from the left for the duration of Biden's term. The Democrats could have taken Michelle Obama's advice of "When they go low, we go high" over the past 4 years but they chose not to act like the adults in the room, just spoiled brats. Let’s forget the Speaker of the House ripping up the State of the Union address and thereby insulting every single American citizen who was honored at the ceremony. Let's forget the "Russia, Russia, Russia!!!" continuous whining for 4+ years which turned out to be a giant hoax. Let’s forget Hillary calling Trump supporters deplorable and the adolescent behavior of liberals who needed a “safe space” on college campuses to deal with losing an election. Trump is an egotistical ass, but at least he never tried to pretend otherwise.

A few comments:

1. I think dems have acted in asinine ways.  I am not a fan (never have been) of either Pelosi or Schumer and I am disappointed that Pelosi will be the Speaker for 2 more years. 

2. Absolutely agree that Trump supporters have reason to be skeptical of dem leadership and liberal media.  No doubt.  That perspective is understandable and valid, imo. 

3. Not so much in agreement that there was nothing to the impeachment (actually, there was something to it), though I thought then and still think it was a mistake for Dems to go down that road.

4. Absolutely believe that if ones sole source of information is one side or the other, that it will influence who you believe and who you doubt.  This impacts both Trump lovers and haters.

5. If it's evidence that matters to you rather than the spin of either left or right media or political leaders, it's very difficult for me to understand how it isn't becoming clear to any open-minded witness that the President and his team are claiming massive voter fraud but are not providing proof.  0 for about 25 in decided cases, some others pending. 

6. If evidence matters and one is open-minded, it seems that when republican secretaries or state and republican election commissioners are outright denying fraud in their state (not even going down the road of conspiracy) and asserting legitimacy of elections, that should have merit in convincing citizens of a fair election.

7. There is absolutely no merit... none... in a person not pretending to NOT be an egotistical ass.  Actually, he would deny the label.  But the fact that he lives his lies and accusations so transparently, refuses to admit an error, ruthlessly attacks any who disagree cannot be spun as a virtue.  While I can't apply virtue to when the other side spins in biased ways, I can't credit Trump for being an unabashed ass.  If you know you are a lying jerk, and you do so anyway... that's even worse.

8. In the case of a person lying to the world about America's election being fraudulent, rigged, a farce... and then being unable to provide evidence.  Well, that is just the worst thing I've seen done in American politics in my life.  Far worse than anything you can pin on Dems.  Far worse than anything I saw from Nixon (in terms of legacy, the biggest beneficiary of Trump's presidency).
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 11:23:40 AM by Neurotic Guy »

Re: Election Day (Congrats President Elect Biden)
« Reply #1081 on: November 21, 2020, 11:38:24 AM »

Online Ogaju

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13598
  • Tommy Points: 1408


Unfortunately, in a poll I saw from Politico, 70% of Republicans believe that the election was not 'free and fair'. That is so dangerous for our democracy moving forward. Even the candidate who won by 3M votes last election conceded the next day.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, it seems that belief in the integrity of 'free and fair' elections is greatly influenced by whether a preferred candidate won. We have a lot of improvement to make both in our collective culture and in our elections going forward.

"Multiple news organizations announced Biden as the election winner on Saturday after four days of counting in several swing states. Following the news, 70 percent of Republicans now say they don’t believe the 2020 election was free and fair, a stark rise from the 35 percent of GOP voters who held similar beliefs before the election. Meanwhile, trust in the election system grew for Democrats, many who took to the streets to celebrate Biden’s victory on Saturday. Ninety percent of Democrats now say the election was free and fair, up from 52 percent before Nov. 3 who thought it would be."

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/09/republicans-free-fair-elections-435488

Not too far from the third world, eh?

Trump's end game is 2fold - divert attention away from the 250K dead and try to muddy the waters so much that ALL Republicans think that Dems really stole the election. This will have a negative affect on moderates who may actually believe it to an extent. Trump is doing much more harm to the norms and cultures of even bi-partisanship and being patriotic (Agreeing to disagree). He may also be setting Trump Jr., or Ivanka up for a 2024 run.

the latter seems to be the chosen one. Notice how she is shielded from most of the absurd pronouncements. She is being set up to be the moderating force unscathed by the all the crazy stuff.

Re: Election Day (Congrats President Elect Biden)
« Reply #1082 on: November 21, 2020, 11:38:39 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6248
  • Tommy Points: 472
Unfortunately, in a poll I saw from Politico, 70% of Republicans believe that the election was not 'free and fair'. That is so dangerous for our democracy moving forward. Even the candidate who won by 3M votes last election conceded the next day.

I think Trump supporters have a valid reason to view things with skepticism and distrust. When the Democrats and the media collude to cover Trump with 95% negative stories, collude to bury any criticism of Biden in the weeks leading up to the election, and push a false impeachment narrative which has now been shown to be based on specious evidence, it isn't difficult to see why Trump and his supporters are hardly trusting at this point.

We're in for another four years of "He's not my president," and it would not surprise me to see just as much hatred being spewed from the right as we've been seeing from the left for the duration of Biden's term. The Democrats could have taken Michelle Obama's advice of "When they go low, we go high" over the past 4 years but they chose not to act like the adults in the room, just spoiled brats. Let’s forget the Speaker of the House ripping up the State of the Union address and thereby insulting every single American citizen who was honored at the ceremony. Let's forget the "Russia, Russia, Russia!!!" continuous whining for 4+ years which turned out to be a giant hoax. Let’s forget Hillary calling Trump supporters deplorable and the adolescent behavior of liberals who needed a “safe space” on college campuses to deal with losing an election. Trump is an egotistical ass, but at least he never tried to pretend otherwise.
Since when does FoxNews and all the other right wing media not count as media?  Their coverage was at least as stilted in favor of Trump.  The media as a whole is pretty bad but Trump deserved almost all the negative coverage that he got.  The loony left is as bad as the conservative crazies except they tend to be more bungling about it.  Hard to believe anyone could actually believe the Democrats could  pull off a multi-state scheme to steal the Presidency.   

Re: Election Day (Congrats President Elect Biden)
« Reply #1083 on: November 21, 2020, 11:52:39 AM »

Online Ogaju

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13598
  • Tommy Points: 1408


Unfortunately, in a poll I saw from Politico, 70% of Republicans believe that the election was not 'free and fair'. That is so dangerous for our democracy moving forward. Even the candidate who won by 3M votes last election conceded the next day.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, it seems that belief in the integrity of 'free and fair' elections is greatly influenced by whether a preferred candidate won. We have a lot of improvement to make both in our collective culture and in our elections going forward.

"Multiple news organizations announced Biden as the election winner on Saturday after four days of counting in several swing states. Following the news, 70 percent of Republicans now say they don’t believe the 2020 election was free and fair, a stark rise from the 35 percent of GOP voters who held similar beliefs before the election. Meanwhile, trust in the election system grew for Democrats, many who took to the streets to celebrate Biden’s victory on Saturday. Ninety percent of Democrats now say the election was free and fair, up from 52 percent before Nov. 3 who thought it would be."

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/09/republicans-free-fair-elections-435488

Not too far from the third world, eh?
Still quite a ways from third world.  Our democratic institutions and the checks and balances in place are working so far.  The Republican Secretary of State has certified the Georgia election results for Biden.  Trump's team has lost almost everyone of their lawsuits so far being ruled against by Democratic, Republican and even Trump appointed judges. 

For 3rd world politics, refer to Peru as an example with 3 Presidents in the span of a week. 
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/peru-had-three-presidents-in-one-week-now-it-has-four-months-to-fix-the-system/ar-BB1bd6W5

Thanks for the link.. so many similarities wiith what is going on in Peru.

Sagasti seems to have spent a lot of time in Pennsylvania ....hmmmmm

He is 76 years old and his selection was approved by the international community.....hmmmmm

His predecessor who replaced impeached president reaigned from public pritests....hmmmmmm

They are trying to fix a loss of trust in their political/electoral system.................hmmmmm

They need police reform..................hmmmm

We may  not be Peru, but we are not Western Europe either.

Re: Election Day (Congrats President Elect Biden)
« Reply #1084 on: November 21, 2020, 03:24:14 PM »

Offline CelticsPoetry

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 715
  • Tommy Points: 69
Maybe you want to change the title? Biden is not the president-elect. Here is a letter from Congress.

https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Letter-to-GSA-re-Transition-final-11.13.20-1.pdf

Re: Election Day (Congrats President Elect Biden)
« Reply #1085 on: November 21, 2020, 04:05:02 PM »

Offline Kernewek

  • Robert Williams
  • Posts: 136
  • Tommy Points: 15
Today I learned Jody Hice is Congress.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Election Day (Congrats President Elect Biden)
« Reply #1086 on: November 21, 2020, 04:21:25 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17005
  • Tommy Points: 1880
Maybe you want to change the title? Biden is not the president-elect. Here is a letter from Congress.

https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Letter-to-GSA-re-Transition-final-11.13.20-1.pdf

Officially, I don't think anyone is ever president-elect on November 21st.   I think certification and electoral college voting is never complete by this time.  Yet (as in 4 years ago) we usually consider someone who wins probable electoral votes by a 306-232 margin and who wins popular vote by a 6 million vote margin (not that it matters) as the president-elect.

Add to this the astronomical unlikelihood of a 10,000+ margin being overturned in Arizona or Georgia, that even if they were both overturned it wouldn't change the overall winner.  Add to that the 0 for 25 in litigation attempts thus far.  Add to that no credible evidence revealed anywhere of vast fraud.  Add to that republican Secretaries of State and Election commissioners unanimously asserting the legitimacy of their elections in contested states. Add to that Christopher Krebs DHS report that asserted the election was secure... Yeah,  I think CStrong is probably justified in making the assumption of who is president-elect this time around as probably occurred in 2016.

Re: Election Day (Congrats President Elect Biden)
« Reply #1087 on: November 24, 2020, 02:05:45 AM »

Offline ozgod

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8477
  • Tommy Points: 549
Looks like Giuliani and Co are being set up as the scapegoats for Trump's loss and subsequent shambolic legal challenges...Rush let them have it on his show today.

Quote
“You call a gigantic press conference like that — one that lasts an hour — and you announce massive bombshells, then you better have some bombshells,” Limbaugh said during his show on Monday. “There better be something at that press conference other than what we got…I talked to so many people who were blown away by it, by the very nature of the press conference. They promised blockbuster stuff and then nothing happened, and that’s just, it’s not good.”

“If you’re gonna do a press conference like that with the promise of blockbusters, then there has to be something more than what that press conference delivered.”

Though Trump lawyers Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis said Powell is “not a member of the Trump legal team” or a personal lawyer to the president, Limbaugh argued it’s a “tough thing to deny she was ever part of it because they introduced her as part of it.”

“She was at that press conference last week,” he said.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/rush-limbaugh-trumps-legal-team-promised-blockbuster-stuff-and-then-nothing-happened/

To be fair, Rudy IS in in charge of the legal strategy...a legal strategy that has yielded 30 of 31 legal defeats in court so far. That must be some kind of record.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Election Day (Congrats President Elect Biden)
« Reply #1088 on: November 24, 2020, 11:37:50 AM »

Offline heyvik

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1632
  • Tommy Points: 66
Looks like Giuliani and Co are being set up as the scapegoats for Trump's loss and subsequent shambolic legal challenges...Rush let them have it on his show today.

Quote
“You call a gigantic press conference like that — one that lasts an hour — and you announce massive bombshells, then you better have some bombshells,” Limbaugh said during his show on Monday. “There better be something at that press conference other than what we got…I talked to so many people who were blown away by it, by the very nature of the press conference. They promised blockbuster stuff and then nothing happened, and that’s just, it’s not good.”[/b]

“If you’re gonna do a press conference like that with the promise of blockbusters, then there has to be something more than what that press conference delivered.”

Though Trump lawyers Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis said Powell is “not a member of the Trump legal team” or a personal lawyer to the president, Limbaugh argued it’s a “tough thing to deny she was ever part of it because they introduced her as part of it.”

“She was at that press conference last week,” he said.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/rush-limbaugh-trumps-legal-team-promised-blockbuster-stuff-and-then-nothing-happened/

To be fair, Rudy IS in in charge of the legal strategy...a legal strategy that has yielded 30 of 31 legal defeats in court so far. That must be some kind of record.

I almost fell out of my chair when I saw the video of this! This completely sums up what the ENTIRE world has been saying for 2 weeks...;where is the proof? You have over 73ish million people who were hanging on you every word because Trump said there was proof...and yet nothing. And then there's this -

Quote
<Giuliani> 'I'm exaggerating a bit,' he immediately admitted to host Lou Dobbs. 'But all you have to do is look at statistical data and you can see the fraud was rampant and out of control.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8981813/Giuliani-says-exaggerated-bit-said-votes-citizens-Detroit.html

Once again, Giuliani is head of the misinformation campaign. There were misled people who were ready to pick up arms in defense of Trump because of this misinformation.


Re: Election Day (Congrats President Elect Biden)
« Reply #1089 on: November 24, 2020, 11:48:03 AM »

Offline wiley

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4477
  • Tommy Points: 351
Looks like Giuliani and Co are being set up as the scapegoats for Trump's loss and subsequent shambolic legal challenges...Rush let them have it on his show today.

Quote
“You call a gigantic press conference like that — one that lasts an hour — and you announce massive bombshells, then you better have some bombshells,” Limbaugh said during his show on Monday. “There better be something at that press conference other than what we got…I talked to so many people who were blown away by it, by the very nature of the press conference. They promised blockbuster stuff and then nothing happened, and that’s just, it’s not good.”[/b]

“If you’re gonna do a press conference like that with the promise of blockbusters, then there has to be something more than what that press conference delivered.”

Though Trump lawyers Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis said Powell is “not a member of the Trump legal team” or a personal lawyer to the president, Limbaugh argued it’s a “tough thing to deny she was ever part of it because they introduced her as part of it.”

“She was at that press conference last week,” he said.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/rush-limbaugh-trumps-legal-team-promised-blockbuster-stuff-and-then-nothing-happened/

To be fair, Rudy IS in in charge of the legal strategy...a legal strategy that has yielded 30 of 31 legal defeats in court so far. That must be some kind of record.

I almost fell out of my chair when I saw the video of this! This completely sums up what the ENTIRE world has been saying for 2 weeks...;where is the proof? You have over 73ish million people who were hanging on you every word because Trump said there was proof...and yet nothing. And then there's this -

Quote
<Giuliani> 'I'm exaggerating a bit,' he immediately admitted to host Lou Dobbs. 'But all you have to do is look at statistical data and you can see the fraud was rampant and out of control.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8981813/Giuliani-says-exaggerated-bit-said-votes-citizens-Detroit.html

Once again, Giuliani is head of the misinformation campaign. There were misled people who were ready to pick up arms in defense of Trump because of this misinformation.

Some may still be, and the fact that they are crazy doesn't make Giuliani's behavior any more forgivable.  This should be seen as very close to screaming "fire" in a crowded theater. 
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 11:53:46 AM by wiley »

Re: Election Day (Congrats President Elect Biden)
« Reply #1090 on: November 28, 2020, 06:45:16 AM »

Online Neurotic Guy

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17005
  • Tommy Points: 1880
Have there ever been claims that are more negative to America, without proof, delivered by more powerful people, with more potentially inciting impact, potentially leading to widening divisions and possibly violent outcomes?   Yes - possibly in the lead up to the civil war.

Is there nothing in Trump’s behavior — tweets, speeches and press conferences— that is at this point crossing the line of illegality?   After EVERY effort to provide proof has been dismissed, withdrawn, and in some cases basically laughed out of court?  How does anyone in his position get away with influencing millions of people to join him in destroying faith in democracy while providing baseless accusations, pushing bizarre conspiracies, sustaining support for disproven allegations, denying the evidence put forth of fair and free elections - often by members of his own party (Trump supporters) who are in far better positions to analyze the validity of the elections?  Has the preponderance of actual credible evidence, as determined by our court system, ever been so clearly in favor of one side over another?

This has become not only disgusting and unamerican, I can’t understand why it isn’t illegal.  Those who are still supporting Trump, those who are already wishing for Trump ‘24 - it’s time, isn’t it?  Time to see that over 30-0 in court cases has to mean something? Time to acknowledge that if there was actual evidence rather than spouting “fraud” and “I won”  it would be shared with the courts, shared with media, leaked to media, presented by the administration to the American people. Time to wonder along with me and others whether Trump’s libelous declarations of fraudulent, rigged, stolen elections are tantamount to criminal behavior.

Ultimately uniting around a rejection of this horrible man might not only help the country, it may rid us of Trump, Trumpism, and his dangerous and powerful advisors and sycophants, and allow the Republican Party to regain its place as a respectable conservative, small government, fiscally responsible, ethically sound option for the American people

Re: Election Day (Congrats President Elect Biden)
« Reply #1091 on: November 30, 2020, 09:52:56 AM »

Offline ozgod

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8477
  • Tommy Points: 549
Have there ever been claims that are more negative to America, without proof, delivered by more powerful people, with more potentially inciting impact, potentially leading to widening divisions and possibly violent outcomes?   Yes - possibly in the lead up to the civil war.

Is there nothing in Trump’s behavior — tweets, speeches and press conferences— that is at this point crossing the line of illegality?   After EVERY effort to provide proof has been dismissed, withdrawn, and in some cases basically laughed out of court?  How does anyone in his position get away with influencing millions of people to join him in destroying faith in democracy while providing baseless accusations, pushing bizarre conspiracies, sustaining support for disproven allegations, denying the evidence put forth of fair and free elections - often by members of his own party (Trump supporters) who are in far better positions to analyze the validity of the elections?  Has the preponderance of actual credible evidence, as determined by our court system, ever been so clearly in favor of one side over another?

This has become not only disgusting and unamerican, I can’t understand why it isn’t illegal.  Those who are still supporting Trump, those who are already wishing for Trump ‘24 - it’s time, isn’t it?  Time to see that over 30-0 in court cases has to mean something? Time to acknowledge that if there was actual evidence rather than spouting “fraud” and “I won”  it would be shared with the courts, shared with media, leaked to media, presented by the administration to the American people. Time to wonder along with me and others whether Trump’s libelous declarations of fraudulent, rigged, stolen elections are tantamount to criminal behavior.

Ultimately uniting around a rejection of this horrible man might not only help the country, it may rid us of Trump, Trumpism, and his dangerous and powerful advisors and sycophants, and allow the Republican Party to regain its place as a respectable conservative, small government, fiscally responsible, ethically sound option for the American people

We've been so inured to whatever Trump says or tweets that we don't even remember all of them. I had forgotten that Trump pulled this same "election was rigged" stunts back in 2016 - against a Republican in Ted Cruz, during the Iowa caucus. From the National Review.


https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/11/another-enemy-of-the-people-c/

So people knew this back in 2016 and he still got 70 million votes. I'd say Trumpism is here to stay. He's pretty much taken over the Republican party, in large part by bringing in people who like HIM and what he stands for, ahead of whether they like the Republican party or not. And most party officials are trying to ride the wave and bottle that Trump magic, that passion, that turns out his supporters in record numbers. Most elected Republicans are terrified of saying anything because they don't want to get cancelled by Trump on Twitter.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Election Day (Congrats President Elect Biden)
« Reply #1092 on: November 30, 2020, 10:31:22 AM »

Offline Redz

  • Punner
  • Global Moderator
  • Larry Bird
  • *****************************
  • Posts: 29319
  • Tommy Points: 3593
  • Yup
I'm claiming the Celtics as 2020 NBA champs. 

And don't tell me that they lost to the Heat, or the Lakers won in the Finals.  That was rigged and I have proof. 

Yup

Re: Election Day (Congrats President Elect Biden)
« Reply #1093 on: November 30, 2020, 10:55:54 AM »

Offline Kernewek

  • Robert Williams
  • Posts: 136
  • Tommy Points: 15
So people knew this back in 2016 and he still got 70 million votes. I'd say Trumpism is here to stay. He's pretty much taken over the Republican party, in large part by bringing in people who like HIM and what he stands for, ahead of whether they like the Republican party or not. And most party officials are trying to ride the wave and bottle that Trump magic, that passion, that turns out his supporters in record numbers. Most elected Republicans are terrified of saying anything because they don't want to get cancelled by Trump on Twitter.

Surely at some point they just become equivocal.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Election Day (Congrats President Elect Biden)
« Reply #1094 on: November 30, 2020, 12:46:29 PM »

Offline ozgod

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8477
  • Tommy Points: 549
So people knew this back in 2016 and he still got 70 million votes. I'd say Trumpism is here to stay. He's pretty much taken over the Republican party, in large part by bringing in people who like HIM and what he stands for, ahead of whether they like the Republican party or not. And most party officials are trying to ride the wave and bottle that Trump magic, that passion, that turns out his supporters in record numbers. Most elected Republicans are terrified of saying anything because they don't want to get cancelled by Trump on Twitter.

Surely at some point they just become equivocal.

I'm wondering when the last time that a political party was so quickly and thoroughly taken over and rebranded was. Must be at least a hundred years?
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D