Bill Simmons says 2020 Lakers would beat 2008 Celtics

[Roy H.]

https://twitter.com/ringer/status/1314675000339693568

So can we agree that Billy from Marlborough has gone Looney Tunes? No way this year's Fakers, who struggled to beat a banged up Heat team minus Dragic for the whole series and minus Adebayo for large parts of it, beat Pierce, Garnett and Allen in their pomp.

Not a fan of Simmons but don't think that is crazy.  The 2008 Celtics weren't a juggernaut in the playoffs.  7 games against Hawks and Cavs.  6 games against Pistons and Lakers.

And the 2020 Lakers were never tested.  This season, the best team the Lakers faced in the playoffs was on a sub-52 win pace.  They never faced a hostile crowd. The Celts beat legitimately good teams.  The defending champion Pistons won 59 games, and the 2008 Lakers won 57 (playing at a 69 win pace in games where they had Pau Gasol).

The Celtics were clearly not taking the Hawks seriously on the road.  They knew that they could not lose the series, and they simply went through the motions during the away games.  Their margin of victory during the home games that season?  +23, +19, +25, +34

The Cavs series gets remembered for the amazing duel in Game 7, but people forget how great our defense was against Bron.  He put up numbers, but we held him to 35.5% shooting, and 5.3 turnovers per game.

[Moranis]

He's dead wrong; it's that simple.


Were the 2020 Lakers that much better than the 08 Lakers?  The 08 Lakers two comparable top 2 superstars (prime Kobe, prime Pau) and in addition they had prime Lamar Odom (14 pts 10 reb per game that year).  The rest of the roster (a bunch of role players who could shoot) was similar.

The 08 Celtics demolished the 08 Lakers.

Yes they were because Lebron is still better than Kobe was that year (especially when he locks in defensively in the playoffs) and Davis is a lot better than Gasol (especially defensively).  Odom was probably the 5th best player in the series though so that weighs towards them, however if this was 2008, Dwight Howard (and JaVale McGee) would have been on the floor a lot and for all Dwight's flaws he is still a pretty effective player when they have the right matchups for him (and Perkins definitely was the right match-up for him).  That 08 Lakers team outside of the top 3 really wasn't very good.  They added Bynum in 09 (he was on the team but injured for the playoffs in 08) and then Metta in 10 and were a lot deeper and just better overall even as Kobe was aging.  If Bynum doesn't get hurt, the Lakers very well might have beaten Boston in 08 because he made it a lot harder for the C's defensively, as they had to guard him as well as Gasol.  Without Bynum, Gasol was a lot easier for the C's to guard.

[SparzWizard]

https://twitter.com/ringer/status/1314675000339693568

So can we agree that Billy from Marlborough has gone Looney Tunes? No way this year's Fakers, who struggled to beat a banged up Heat team minus Dragic for the whole series and minus Adebayo for large parts of it, beat Pierce, Garnett and Allen in their pomp.

Not a fan of Simmons but don't think that is crazy.  The 2008 Celtics weren't a juggernaut in the playoffs.  7 games against Hawks and Cavs.  6 games against Pistons and Lakers.

Celtics blew out the Hawks in the TD Garden. Nearly got the win in Game 6 in Atlanta. Home-court matters, after all. Cavs? LeBron was peaking and playing out of his mind. Pistons? They're an excellent defensive team.

Lakers 2020 never had any competition. Play against Celtics 2008 and the Lakers get whipped in 5 games. They'd look so watered-down against that Celtics team.

[Moranis]

https://twitter.com/ringer/status/1314675000339693568

So can we agree that Billy from Marlborough has gone Looney Tunes? No way this year's Fakers, who struggled to beat a banged up Heat team minus Dragic for the whole series and minus Adebayo for large parts of it, beat Pierce, Garnett and Allen in their pomp.

Not a fan of Simmons but don't think that is crazy.  The 2008 Celtics weren't a juggernaut in the playoffs.  7 games against Hawks and Cavs.  6 games against Pistons and Lakers.

And the 2020 Lakers were never tested.  This season, the best team the Lakers faced in the playoffs was on a sub-52 win pace.  They never faced a hostile crowd. The Celts beat legitimately good teams.  The defending champion Pistons won 59 games, and the 2008 Lakers won 57 (playing at a 69 win pace in games where they had Pau Gasol).

The Celtics were clearly not taking the Hawks seriously on the road.  They knew that they could not lose the series, and they simply went through the motions during the away games.  Their margin of victory during the home games that season?  +23, +19, +25, +34

The Pistons weren't the defending champions.  They won the title in 04, 3 full seasons before 08 and the last time they were in the finals was 05 when they lost to the Spurs.  They lost in the ECF the two years before 08, losing to eventual champion Miami in 06 and perhaps the worst team to ever appear in the Finals i.e. the 07 Cavs.  They did win 59 games, but were far from the defending champs.  The defending conference champs were the Cavs, which won 45 games and pushed Boston to 7 as did the 37 win Hawks.  You can say the C's were going through the motions, but the reality is they played 14 games against teams with a combined win percentage of .500.  That just isn't good.  And the Eastern Conference was a joke that season.  3 teams won at least 50 games.  The Cavs were the 4th seed with 45 wins.  3 teams made the playoffs with a record .500 or worse.  You had the C's, Pistons, and Lebron.  The Western Conference was great that year.  So great that a 48 win Golden State team didn't even make the playoffs.  That would have made them the 4th seed in the East and they were 9th in the West.  The 10th seed in the West, Portland, won 41 games as well.  The Lakers were the team that really ran through it and unlike the C's they crushed those 50 win+ teams on their way to the finals, including beating the actual defending champion Spurs in 5 games in the WCF. 

[Roy H.]

That 08 Lakers team outside of the top 3 really wasn't very good.

Derek Fischer was pretty good for them, too.  He would probably be the third best player on the current Lakers.  And no Dwight Howard nonsense please. He averaged 2.8 / 2.8 in the Finals. 

Those Lakers crushed a full-strength Spurs team in the playoffs.  They were legitimately an excellent team.  Nobody at the time was suggesting that that they weren’t that strong.  Indeed, they were almost universally favored over a 66-win Celtics team.

[Roy H.]

https://twitter.com/ringer/status/1314675000339693568

So can we agree that Billy from Marlborough has gone Looney Tunes? No way this year's Fakers, who struggled to beat a banged up Heat team minus Dragic for the whole series and minus Adebayo for large parts of it, beat Pierce, Garnett and Allen in their pomp.

Not a fan of Simmons but don't think that is crazy.  The 2008 Celtics weren't a juggernaut in the playoffs.  7 games against Hawks and Cavs.  6 games against Pistons and Lakers.

And the 2020 Lakers were never tested.  This season, the best team the Lakers faced in the playoffs was on a sub-52 win pace.  They never faced a hostile crowd. The Celts beat legitimately good teams.  The defending champion Pistons won 59 games, and the 2008 Lakers won 57 (playing at a 69 win pace in games where they had Pau Gasol).

The Celtics were clearly not taking the Hawks seriously on the road.  They knew that they could not lose the series, and they simply went through the motions during the away games.  Their margin of victory during the home games that season?  +23, +19, +25, +34

The Pistons weren't the defending champions.  They won the title in 04, 3 full seasons before 08 and the last time they were in the finals was 05 when they lost to the Spurs.  They lost in the ECF the two years before 08, losing to eventual champion Miami in 06 and perhaps the worst team to ever appear in the Finals i.e. the 07 Cavs.  They did win 59 games, but were far from the defending champs.  The defending conference champs were the Cavs, which won 45 games and pushed Boston to 7 as did the 37 win Hawks.  You can say the C's were going through the motions, but the reality is they played 14 games against teams with a combined win percentage of .500.  That just isn't good.  And the Eastern Conference was a joke that season.  3 teams won at least 50 games.  The Cavs were the 4th seed with 45 wins.  3 teams made the playoffs with a record .500 or worse.  You had the C's, Pistons, and Lebron.  The Western Conference was great that year.  So great that a 48 win Golden State team didn't even make the playoffs.  That would have made them the 4th seed in the East and they were 9th in the West.  The 10th seed in the West, Portland, won 41 games as well.  The Lakers were the team that really ran through it and unlike the C's they crushed those 50 win+ teams on their way to the finals, including beating the actual defending champion Spurs in 5 games in the WCF.

And yet, it was those non-dominant Celtics who raised the banner.

It cracks me up that in one post you can call the 2008 Lakers dominant, and in another argue that their roster really wasn’t anything special.

Those Lakers were excellent, and the Celts crushed them like bugs.

[Moranis]

The Cavs series gets remembered for the amazing duel in Game 7, but people forget how great our defense was against Bron.  He put up numbers, but we held him to 35.5% shooting, and 5.3 turnovers per game.

Lebron actually was starting to figure Boston out.  He was awful the first 2 games.  I mean he was 2 of 18 with 10 turnovers in game 1 and only a slightly better 6 of 24 with 7 turnovers in game 2.  He got better basically every game in that series and the last 3 games he was a monster. 

But that Cavs team was terrible, outside of Lebron. 

[SparzWizard]

Honestly though, that '08 Finals if Game 4 didn't go the way it did we'd probably succumb to the Lakers in 7 games. It was a 2-3-2 format, immediately favoring the home team in Games 3-5 if they'd won 3 straight. Still, I'd take the 2-3-2 format any day. Have a chance to be up 3-2 and then close out the favored team at their house lol.

That 24-point comeback at Staples Center was pretty wild. Glad we got the win.

[Moranis]

https://twitter.com/ringer/status/1314675000339693568

So can we agree that Billy from Marlborough has gone Looney Tunes? No way this year's Fakers, who struggled to beat a banged up Heat team minus Dragic for the whole series and minus Adebayo for large parts of it, beat Pierce, Garnett and Allen in their pomp.

Not a fan of Simmons but don't think that is crazy.  The 2008 Celtics weren't a juggernaut in the playoffs.  7 games against Hawks and Cavs.  6 games against Pistons and Lakers.

And the 2020 Lakers were never tested.  This season, the best team the Lakers faced in the playoffs was on a sub-52 win pace.  They never faced a hostile crowd. The Celts beat legitimately good teams.  The defending champion Pistons won 59 games, and the 2008 Lakers won 57 (playing at a 69 win pace in games where they had Pau Gasol).

The Celtics were clearly not taking the Hawks seriously on the road.  They knew that they could not lose the series, and they simply went through the motions during the away games.  Their margin of victory during the home games that season?  +23, +19, +25, +34

The Pistons weren't the defending champions.  They won the title in 04, 3 full seasons before 08 and the last time they were in the finals was 05 when they lost to the Spurs.  They lost in the ECF the two years before 08, losing to eventual champion Miami in 06 and perhaps the worst team to ever appear in the Finals i.e. the 07 Cavs.  They did win 59 games, but were far from the defending champs.  The defending conference champs were the Cavs, which won 45 games and pushed Boston to 7 as did the 37 win Hawks.  You can say the C's were going through the motions, but the reality is they played 14 games against teams with a combined win percentage of .500.  That just isn't good.  And the Eastern Conference was a joke that season.  3 teams won at least 50 games.  The Cavs were the 4th seed with 45 wins.  3 teams made the playoffs with a record .500 or worse.  You had the C's, Pistons, and Lebron.  The Western Conference was great that year.  So great that a 48 win Golden State team didn't even make the playoffs.  That would have made them the 4th seed in the East and they were 9th in the West.  The 10th seed in the West, Portland, won 41 games as well.  The Lakers were the team that really ran through it and unlike the C's they crushed those 50 win+ teams on their way to the finals, including beating the actual defending champion Spurs in 5 games in the WCF.

And yet, it was those non-dominant Celtics who raised the banner.

It cracks me up that in one post you can call the 2008 Lakers dominant, and in another argue that their roster really wasn’t anything special.

Those Lakers were excellent, and the Celts crushed them like bugs.

I said their roster didn't compare favorably to the 2020 Lakers, because Lebron > Kobe and Davis >> Gasol.  The 08 Lakers were absolutely an excellent team because Kobe and Pau were great players in their prime, they just weren't as great as Lebron/Davis, so in a match-up of those two teams, I'd favor the team with the better 1st player and the better 2nd better.  Playoff series are won and lost by and large by the top tier talent and in that the 2020 Lakers were superior to the 2008 Lakers. 

That is why for the last 5 years or so, I've continually said the Celtics aren't a real contender because they quite simply haven't had the top tier talent that you need to win in the playoffs.  Tatum is certainly trending like he could reach that level, but I suspect it won't be next season.

[Roy H.]

The Cavs series gets remembered for the amazing duel in Game 7, but people forget how great our defense was against Bron.  He put up numbers, but we held him to 35.5% shooting, and 5.3 turnovers per game.

Lebron actually was starting to figure Boston out.  He was awful the first 2 games.  I mean he was 2 of 18 with 10 turnovers in game 1 and only a slightly better 6 of 24 with 7 turnovers in game 2.  He got better basically every game in that series and the last 3 games he was a monster. 

But that Cavs team was terrible, outside of Lebron.

He didn’t figure them out that much.

Game 3: 5-for-16, 2 turnovers
Game 4: 7-for-20, 4 turnovers
Game 6: 9-for-23, 8 turnovers

Props to him for great performances in Games 5 and 7, although even then he was sub-50% from the floor.

Our defense was epically great. 

[Moranis]

That 08 Lakers team outside of the top 3 really wasn't very good.

Derek Fischer was pretty good for them, too.  He would probably be the third best player on the current Lakers.  And no Dwight Howard nonsense please. He averaged 2.8 / 2.8 in the Finals. 

Those Lakers crushed a full-strength Spurs team in the playoffs.  They were legitimately an excellent team.  Nobody at the time was suggesting that that they weren’t that strong.  Indeed, they were almost universally favored over a 66-win Celtics team.

Dwight was a terrible match-up against the Heat.  That is why he didn't play much (also why he didn't play hardly at all against Houston).  Overall in the playoffs in his 16 mpg or so and per 36 he averaged 13.3 and 10.6 (with his 68.4% from the field), which is still pretty good efficiency on a per minute basis.  Against Perkins though, he would have played in the 30 minute range, because Perkins is the right kind of match-up for Dwight.  He obviously isn't as good as he was in 09, but he did do quite well against Perk back then.

[Moranis]

The Cavs series gets remembered for the amazing duel in Game 7, but people forget how great our defense was against Bron.  He put up numbers, but we held him to 35.5% shooting, and 5.3 turnovers per game.

Lebron actually was starting to figure Boston out.  He was awful the first 2 games.  I mean he was 2 of 18 with 10 turnovers in game 1 and only a slightly better 6 of 24 with 7 turnovers in game 2.  He got better basically every game in that series and the last 3 games he was a monster. 

But that Cavs team was terrible, outside of Lebron.

He didn’t figure them out that much.

Game 3: 5-for-16, 2 turnovers
Game 4: 7-for-20, 4 turnovers
Game 6: 9-for-23, 8 turnovers

Props to him for great performances in Games 5 and 7, although even then he was sub-50% from the floor.

Our defense was epically great.

I believe it was you that went with the Scoreboard routine.  So I'm just going to say Scoreboard and leave it at that.

[PhoSita]

Some folks need to go back and rewatch those 08 Finals, methinks.

[Roy H.]

https://twitter.com/ringer/status/1314675000339693568

So can we agree that Billy from Marlborough has gone Looney Tunes? No way this year's Fakers, who struggled to beat a banged up Heat team minus Dragic for the whole series and minus Adebayo for large parts of it, beat Pierce, Garnett and Allen in their pomp.

Not a fan of Simmons but don't think that is crazy.  The 2008 Celtics weren't a juggernaut in the playoffs.  7 games against Hawks and Cavs.  6 games against Pistons and Lakers.

And the 2020 Lakers were never tested.  This season, the best team the Lakers faced in the playoffs was on a sub-52 win pace.  They never faced a hostile crowd. The Celts beat legitimately good teams.  The defending champion Pistons won 59 games, and the 2008 Lakers won 57 (playing at a 69 win pace in games where they had Pau Gasol).

The Celtics were clearly not taking the Hawks seriously on the road.  They knew that they could not lose the series, and they simply went through the motions during the away games.  Their margin of victory during the home games that season?  +23, +19, +25, +34

The Pistons weren't the defending champions.  They won the title in 04, 3 full seasons before 08 and the last time they were in the finals was 05 when they lost to the Spurs.  They lost in the ECF the two years before 08, losing to eventual champion Miami in 06 and perhaps the worst team to ever appear in the Finals i.e. the 07 Cavs.  They did win 59 games, but were far from the defending champs.  The defending conference champs were the Cavs, which won 45 games and pushed Boston to 7 as did the 37 win Hawks.  You can say the C's were going through the motions, but the reality is they played 14 games against teams with a combined win percentage of .500.  That just isn't good.  And the Eastern Conference was a joke that season.  3 teams won at least 50 games.  The Cavs were the 4th seed with 45 wins.  3 teams made the playoffs with a record .500 or worse.  You had the C's, Pistons, and Lebron.  The Western Conference was great that year.  So great that a 48 win Golden State team didn't even make the playoffs.  That would have made them the 4th seed in the East and they were 9th in the West.  The 10th seed in the West, Portland, won 41 games as well.  The Lakers were the team that really ran through it and unlike the C's they crushed those 50 win+ teams on their way to the finals, including beating the actual defending champion Spurs in 5 games in the WCF.

And yet, it was those non-dominant Celtics who raised the banner.

It cracks me up that in one post you can call the 2008 Lakers dominant, and in another argue that their roster really wasn’t anything special.

Those Lakers were excellent, and the Celts crushed them like bugs.

I said their roster didn't compare favorably to the 2020 Lakers, because Lebron > Kobe and Davis >> Gasol.  The 08 Lakers were absolutely an excellent team because Kobe and Pau were great players in their prime, they just weren't as great as Lebron/Davis, so in a match-up of those two teams, I'd favor the team with the better 1st player and the better 2nd better.  Playoff series are won and lost by and large by the top tier talent and in that the 2020 Lakers were superior to the 2008 Lakers. 

That is why for the last 5 years or so, I've continually said the Celtics aren't a real contender because they quite simply haven't had the top tier talent that you need to win in the playoffs.  Tatum is certainly trending like he could reach that level, but I suspect it won't be next season.

One way of measuring team strength is to look at point differential.

2008 Celtics: +10.2 (1st in NBA)
2008 Lakers: +7.3 (3rd in NBA; played most of season without Gasol)
2020 Lakers: +5.7 (fifth in NBA)

That Lakers point differential is the worst for a championship winner since the 2011 Mavericks.

[Roy H.]

The Cavs series gets remembered for the amazing duel in Game 7, but people forget how great our defense was against Bron.  He put up numbers, but we held him to 35.5% shooting, and 5.3 turnovers per game.

Lebron actually was starting to figure Boston out.  He was awful the first 2 games.  I mean he was 2 of 18 with 10 turnovers in game 1 and only a slightly better 6 of 24 with 7 turnovers in game 2.  He got better basically every game in that series and the last 3 games he was a monster. 

But that Cavs team was terrible, outside of Lebron.

He didn’t figure them out that much.

Game 3: 5-for-16, 2 turnovers
Game 4: 7-for-20, 4 turnovers
Game 6: 9-for-23, 8 turnovers

Props to him for great performances in Games 5 and 7, although even then he was sub-50% from the floor.

Our defense was epically great.

I believe it was you that went with the Scoreboard routine.  So I'm just going to say Scoreboard and leave it at that.

Lol.  I thinks that’s because you’re having a hard time:

1. Admitting the Celts were a great team that severely limited your binkie; and
2. Reconciling that the terrible roster of the Cavs helped carry a struggling Lebron to wins

Also: “Scoreboard” doesn’t apply when a player’s team loses the series.