Author Topic: “Buzz”: Hayward considering “Al Horford” plan, could leave Celts  (Read 4653 times)

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Re: “Buzz”: Hayward considering “Al Horford” plan, could leave Celts
« Reply #75 on: October 27, 2020, 08:03:32 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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In the situation where Hayward opts our and Cs get nothing, how do the Cs pivot? Do they continue to go the slow/development route? Do they trade Kemba? I don’t see them having the assets nor talent to be legit competitors next year.

Even without Hayward the Celts still have the key ingredients of the team that swept the Sixers and beat the Raptors in 7.  There's plenty of reason to expect Tatum and Brown to be even better next year and for the team as a whole to improve its crunch time execution.


If they retool the bench a bit and Tatum takes another step forward, they should absolutely be in the mix for a top 3 seed.
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Re: “Buzz”: Hayward considering “Al Horford” plan, could leave Celts
« Reply #76 on: October 27, 2020, 08:26:55 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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In the situation where Hayward opts our and Cs get nothing, how do the Cs pivot? Do they continue to go the slow/development route? Do they trade Kemba? I don’t see them having the assets nor talent to be legit competitors next year.

Even without Hayward the Celts still have the key ingredients of the team that swept the Sixers and beat the Raptors in 7.  There's plenty of reason to expect Tatum and Brown to be even better next year and for the team as a whole to improve its crunch time execution.


If they retool the bench a bit and Tatum takes another step forward, they should absolutely be in the mix for a top 3 seed.
It’s easy to say retool the bench but they don’t have many avenues to do so. It’s a pretty big talent loss that I don’t think they’d be able to replace with the current roster.

Re: “Buzz”: Hayward considering “Al Horford” plan, could leave Celts
« Reply #77 on: October 27, 2020, 08:34:08 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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In the situation where Hayward opts our and Cs get nothing, how do the Cs pivot? Do they continue to go the slow/development route? Do they trade Kemba? I don’t see them having the assets nor talent to be legit competitors next year.

Even without Hayward the Celts still have the key ingredients of the team that swept the Sixers and beat the Raptors in 7.  There's plenty of reason to expect Tatum and Brown to be even better next year and for the team as a whole to improve its crunch time execution.


If they retool the bench a bit and Tatum takes another step forward, they should absolutely be in the mix for a top 3 seed.

Our playoff run was overrated IMO.

Sure we whooped Philly, but they didn’t have Simmons and we didn’t have to play in Philly at all (they were a wretched road team and I believe had the best home record). And then Toronto we went the full 7 with, despite nobody considering them a true contender. Then we lost to an inferior, albeit hot, team in Miami.

I don’t believe we would have beaten Milwaukee either had they not collapsed against Miami (which they probably would not have if it weren’t for the bubble).

This team would be good, probably dangerous, without Hayward. But they won’t be a contender without him or something meaningful in return for his departure.
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Re: “Buzz”: Hayward considering “Al Horford” plan, could leave Celts
« Reply #78 on: October 27, 2020, 08:41:28 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

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It's business and nothing here hasn't been discussed and planned for by Hayward's agent and Ainge two years ago. Irving and AD are elsewhere and the Celtics became "Brown & Tatum" with an exclamation point named Walker.

There has never been room for a $34M Hayward since the signing of Walker. Everybody knew it.

Look at the line up. Theis is the starting center at $6M and he is one of the smallest in the league.

Ainge is going into cap hell with Theis at center?

Hayward and his agent have known this for two years. If Hayward opts in, he will be traded. How is this a mystery?

Hayward has the option to opt out and sign with another team for whatever.

The only option I see as ridiculous is why would Gordon Hayward sign in Boston for "less" and why would Ainge destroy his cap for 3 or 4 years?

Walker + Brown + Smart + Tatum...Ainge has spent all of his money forever and he doesn't have a frontcourt forever unless Anthony Davis signs here...oh, that's right...never mind.
 
 

Re: “Buzz”: Hayward considering “Al Horford” plan, could leave Celts
« Reply #79 on: October 27, 2020, 08:42:30 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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In the situation where Hayward opts our and Cs get nothing, how do the Cs pivot? Do they continue to go the slow/development route? Do they trade Kemba? I don’t see them having the assets nor talent to be legit competitors next year.

If he opted out, the Cs would have a full MLE to go after a rotation player to help us. Honestly, we probably don't need play-making as much with Walker, Tatum, and Brown's development. Plus, the Cs offense is predicate on the ability to create easy buckets for role players too. It's a great thing to have, but it may be better to get a shooter or athletic big defender to help.

Re: “Buzz”: Hayward considering “Al Horford” plan, could leave Celts
« Reply #80 on: October 27, 2020, 09:23:14 PM »

Offline mrceltics2013

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In the situation where Hayward opts our and Cs get nothing, how do the Cs pivot? Do they continue to go the slow/development route? Do they trade Kemba? I don’t see them having the assets nor talent to be legit competitors next year.

Even without Hayward the Celts still have the key ingredients of the team that swept the Sixers and beat the Raptors in 7.  There's plenty of reason to expect Tatum and Brown to be even better next year and for the team as a whole to improve its crunch time execution.


If they retool the bench a bit and Tatum takes another step forward, they should absolutely be in the mix for a top 3 seed.

This playoff run was nothing to brag about, it was a struggle. They didn’t resemble a championship type team at all. I feel like some players can just play at a different level in the playoffs. Now some people turn up like Rondo and some shrink like Paul George.

Kemba should have DOMINATED the philly series but he didn’t. He should have avg am effortless 30ppg as wide open as he was. I believe the starting lineup is far more important than the bench.

The bench was all rookies man they will improve. Kemba on the other hand, won’t.

Re: “Buzz”: Hayward considering “Al Horford” plan, could leave Celts
« Reply #81 on: October 27, 2020, 10:11:08 PM »

Online AshyLarry

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In the situation where Hayward opts our and Cs get nothing, how do the Cs pivot? Do they continue to go the slow/development route? Do they trade Kemba? I don’t see them having the assets nor talent to be legit competitors next year.

Even without Hayward the Celts still have the key ingredients of the team that swept the Sixers and beat the Raptors in 7.  There's plenty of reason to expect Tatum and Brown to be even better next year and for the team as a whole to improve its crunch time execution.


If they retool the bench a bit and Tatum takes another step forward, they should absolutely be in the mix for a top 3 seed.

Our playoff run was overrated IMO.

Sure we whooped Philly, but they didn’t have Simmons and we didn’t have to play in Philly at all (they were a wretched road team and I believe had the best home record). And then Toronto we went the full 7 with, despite nobody considering them a true contender. Then we lost to an inferior, albeit hot, team in Miami.

I don’t believe we would have beaten Milwaukee either had they not collapsed against Miami (which they probably would not have if it weren’t for the bubble).

This team would be good, probably dangerous, without Hayward. But they won’t be a contender without him or something meaningful in return for his departure.

I 100% agree with this.

Our putrid body language and general inconsistency were the biggest playoff themes to me, even against Philly. We should have decimated them every game.

I thought Miami was a better matchup for us than Milwaukee, but we were not flowing at all. No chutzpah in our play for more than 10 minutes/game at most against them- I’d be interested to hear what the players actually have to say about this year’s locker room. Vibe still didn’t feel right. Things out of place. But..

Tatum needs time to figure out what kind of player he wants to be. Apparently he can do everything now that his confidence caught up with him lol.  But he needs to play more in the system, even if the system needs to adapt to him.

Not to mention Jaylen also needed more touches down the line. He kept us in the game at times, and seemed to perform when given the ball in the 4th.

It’s their team. We live and die with how they coexist together and with the whole squad. For better and worse they’re not even near their prime. As long as those guys are happy in Boston, things will work out.

But for now we need our vets to play like vets. Hayward and Kemba need to stay healthy and on the team lol. Otherwise we’re only looking to the future.
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Re: “Buzz”: Hayward considering “Al Horford” plan, could leave Celts
« Reply #82 on: October 27, 2020, 10:26:40 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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In the situation where Hayward opts our and Cs get nothing, how do the Cs pivot? Do they continue to go the slow/development route? Do they trade Kemba? I don’t see them having the assets nor talent to be legit competitors next year.

Even without Hayward the Celts still have the key ingredients of the team that swept the Sixers and beat the Raptors in 7.  There's plenty of reason to expect Tatum and Brown to be even better next year and for the team as a whole to improve its crunch time execution.


If they retool the bench a bit and Tatum takes another step forward, they should absolutely be in the mix for a top 3 seed.
It’s easy to say retool the bench but they don’t have many avenues to do so. It’s a pretty big talent loss that I don’t think they’d be able to replace with the current roster.


Its not the easiest thing in the world, no.

But there are definitely modest moves they can make to upgrade from Wanamaker, semi, Grant, kanter, timelord, which is what the bench was for most of that playoff run.


As for the idea that the playoff run was overrated, one: that certainly doesn't seem to be the case around here. There's a lot more negativity about it in these parts than positivity. Two, I'm not sure what people were expecting? Is anything less than a title, no matter what talent is on the roster or the circumstances, a disappointment?  That seems like a huge bummer of a mindset to have as a fan.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: “Buzz”: Hayward considering “Al Horford” plan, could leave Celts
« Reply #83 on: October 27, 2020, 10:35:37 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Rozier signed a 3 year basically 57 million dollar contract that gets smaller every year and is just under 20 million this year (down to just under 19 and 18 the next two).  And he started off very slowly, but actually ended up with a pretty decent stat line at 18 p, 4.4 r, 4.1 a on a TS% of 55.3 which includes 40.7% from 3 and 87.4 from the line (his 2PT% at 43.6 was very bad keeping his TS% down). 



Brother I spent 4 years watching Rozier just like you.  I'm super relieved he's not on the team anymore.


He's an average-ish at best starting point guard.  Much worse as a backup.  The numbers he put up this year support that.  If he's starting and has the green light to shoot, he gets himself into enough of a rhythm to put up passable stats.

I'd much rather be paying a premium, including overpaying on the back end, for an All-Star caliber efficient scorer compared to paying market rate for Rozier to be the 15-20th best starting point guard in the league. 

Not to mention, Rozier just seemed like a bit of an annoying guy to have in the locker room and I found his style very frustrating except when he was really feeling himself.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have re-signed Rozier, but I also wouldn't have signed Kemba as I just didn't see the point in it, especially at the expense of a first round pick.  Kemba didn't put Boston into that true contender tier and I just wouldn't have spent the money on him.  But given his knee injury, his minutes, etc., I can see an argument that keeping Rozier on a much smaller contract would have been the more prudent move.

I would have gone hard after Brogdon.  I think he would have been a much better fit with the J's, was cheaper, younger, and because of all that just made much more sense long term.  No idea if Brogdon would have come here, but to me that just seemed like the better move to try and make for where the team currently is and what it should be i.e. building around Tatum.  These win now moves just keep eliminating assets and cap room that could be better suited for players around Tatum.
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PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: “Buzz”: Hayward considering “Al Horford” plan, could leave Celts
« Reply #84 on: October 28, 2020, 01:46:15 AM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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Him going away has a lot of benefits: We easily get back under the luxury line, there’s obviously nobody with a special relationship with the coach anymore, no more losing our rhythm trying to bring Gordon back into the action after the umpteenth injury of his Celtics’ career, we can move on from the whole debacle, etc. I hope this happens.

How about this idea: sign-and-trade Hayward and our final two first-round picks for Wiggins? I can get behind that idea, with Smart as our sixth man or try to deal Wiggins for a front court piece...Wiggins is still very young (25) and has just not been in a good situation since joining the league. He could blossom, especially with Brown, Tatum and Kemba leading the way
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 01:56:34 AM by GreenlyGreeny »

Re: “Buzz”: Hayward considering “Al Horford” plan, could leave Celts
« Reply #85 on: October 28, 2020, 05:59:00 AM »

Offline ederson

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GW choose to miss the birth of his son to play. It does not strike me as the guy who would do a "Horford" 



Wiggins is still very young (25) and has just not been in a good situation since joining the league. He could blossom, especially with Brown, Tatum and Kemba leading the way


Yeah like he had nothing to do with the bad situations.... He is not dedicated to becoming good/succesfull nba player. He just does not care. He hasn't showed that he cared. And he had the chance with Butler ....

I want nothing to do with him and i am a person who wanted to sign D.Howard !!!

Re: “Buzz”: Hayward considering “Al Horford” plan, could leave Celts
« Reply #86 on: October 28, 2020, 08:14:44 AM »

Offline Birdman

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CBS Sports has a great article about the Celtics offseason..it’s a great read and go take a look
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin