Author Topic: Thinking Outside of the Box: Tatum, Brown and Adding a Shutdown Defensive Bigman  (Read 1568 times)

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Offline GreenlyGreeny

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We continue to think about trading Brown to upgrade our offensive firepower, to get that truly elite number one guy, but theyíre so hard to find that perhaps we instead focus upon bringing in a big man who can shutdown the elite bigs. And letís not forget weíll couple this defensive big man with Smart, who can slowdown anybody at position 1-3.

Think about who is standing in our way: In the east, the Bucks, Heat and 76ers. If we can shutdown/slowdown Giannis with a defensive big man, like the Heat did with Adebayo, the firepower of Tatum/Brown can overcome the offense of Giannis/Middleton. The same applies to Embiid and Tatum/Brown exceeding Embiid/Simmons. Same goes for Adebayo in Miami.

In the west, we are 90% likely to face either the Lakers or the Nuggets in the 2021 NBA Finals, with a possible return of Golden State or run by the Clippers (highly skeptical). A defensive big man can shutdown/slowdown Anthony Davis and The Joker, so our firepower of Tatum/Brown can overcome LeBron/AD and Murray/Jokic.

This may be how we get to number 18. Who can we possibly get in return for a combination of our assets, excluding Tatum, Brown, Smart and Kemba (we need the lockdown guard and we cannot trade a marquee free agent one year after signing)?

Gobert for Hayward and multiple first-round picks comes immediately to mind. The more I think about it, the more Iím convinced thatís how we win banner 18 in 2021. Unless Golden State makes a resurgence with small ball or the Clippers somehow make it to the Finals, weíre best positioned with a big man who can slowdown Davis or Jokic, and clearly a shut down big gets us past the top three in the east.

But who else? Additional thoughts?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 09:24:55 PM by GreenlyGreeny »

Offline Somebody

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That was what I floated around with the addition of Theis and prospects for Ingles.

Offline gouki88

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Has there been anything to suggest that either Utah would want Hayward or that Hayward would even consider sticking around?

Looks really awful to trade a guy to the team he left to join you in free agency

Offline LilRip

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I agree with you that we still need a big. And Iíve written on here as well that JT and JB are who you build around. Honestly, this would be a slam dunk trade for the Cís.

I donít think Utah would be interested tho. What happens to their roster? Ed Davis starts?

So in principle, I like it. But we need a 3rd team.
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Offline gouki88

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I agree with you that we still need a big. And Iíve written on here as well that JT and JB are who you build around. Honestly, this would be a slam dunk trade for the Cís.

I donít think Utah would be interested tho. What happens to their roster? Ed Davis starts?

So in principle, I like it. But we need a 3rd team.
I was just fiddling around on the trade machine. What about something like this?

https://tradenba.com/trades/FovcI-mG0

Boston trades: Gordon Hayward, Romeo Langford, Daniel Theis, #14, #26
Boston receives: Rudy Gobert, Garret Temple

Utah trades: Rudy Gobert, Joe Ingles
Utah receives: Gordon Hayward, Jarrett Allen, Romeo Langford, Daniel Theis, #14, #19

Brooklyn trades: Jarrett Allen, Garret Temple, #19
Brooklyn receives: Joe Ingles, #26

Boston gets the defensive beast inside and a 3PT shooting veteran.

Utah gets massive cap flexibility and two picks in the top 20, alongside a young good C and a wing prospect.

Brooklyn gets a great playmaking marksman that has shown a strong ability to play off of stars, and a pick downgrade.

Who says no? Probably Utah, right?

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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Has there been anything to suggest that either Utah would want Hayward or that Hayward would even consider sticking around?

Looks really awful to trade a guy to the team he left to join you in free agency

In this case, thereís a sense that Hayward would have re-signed with Utah but we had his college coach. Ordinarily Iíd agree itís awful to trade a guy to the team he left, but not in this case if Hayward and Stevens were ok with the trade.

Think itís also pretty obvious why Utah would be happy to have Hayward back, especially if dealing Gobert keeps Mitchell happy and they get some first-round picks to add to the Mitchell/Hayward show.

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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I agree with you that we still need a big. And Iíve written on here as well that JT and JB are who you build around. Honestly, this would be a slam dunk trade for the Cís.

I donít think Utah would be interested tho. What happens to their roster? Ed Davis starts?

So in principle, I like it. But we need a 3rd team.
I was just fiddling around on the trade machine. What about something like this?

https://tradenba.com/trades/FovcI-mG0

Boston trades: Gordon Hayward, Romeo Langford, Daniel Theis, #14, #26
Boston receives: Rudy Gobert, Garret Temple

Utah trades: Rudy Gobert, Joe Ingles
Utah receives: Gordon Hayward, Jarrett Allen, Romeo Langford, Daniel Theis, #14, #19

Brooklyn trades: Jarrett Allen, Garret Temple, #19
Brooklyn receives: Joe Ingles, #26

Boston gets the defensive beast inside and a 3PT shooting veteran.

Utah gets massive cap flexibility and two picks in the top 20, alongside a young good C and a wing prospect.

Brooklyn gets a great playmaking marksman that has shown a strong ability to play off of stars, and a pick downgrade.

Who says no? Probably Utah, right?

If Iím Utah, why would I take that instead of Hayward and 3-5 first-round picks in return for merely unloading Gobert?

Offline Moranis

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Has there been anything to suggest that either Utah would want Hayward or that Hayward would even consider sticking around?

Looks really awful to trade a guy to the team he left to join you in free agency

In this case, thereís a sense that Hayward would have re-signed with Utah but we had his college coach. Ordinarily Iíd agree itís awful to trade a guy to the team he left, but not in this case if Hayward and Stevens were ok with the trade.

Think itís also pretty obvious why Utah would be happy to have Hayward back, especially if dealing Gobert keeps Mitchell happy and they get some first-round picks to add to the Mitchell/Hayward show.
except Hayward signed in Charlotte during his first free agency, which Utah matched.  Hayward has never shown a desire to play in Utah.
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PG - Magic Johnson, Tony Parker
SG - Clyde Drexler, Dennis Johnson, Alvin Robertson
SF - James Worthy, Alex English
PF - Charles Barkley, Ben Wallace
C - Moses Malone, George Mikan, Brad Daugherty

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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Has there been anything to suggest that either Utah would want Hayward or that Hayward would even consider sticking around?

Looks really awful to trade a guy to the team he left to join you in free agency

In this case, thereís a sense that Hayward would have re-signed with Utah but we had his college coach. Ordinarily Iíd agree itís awful to trade a guy to the team he left, but not in this case if Hayward and Stevens were ok with the trade.

Think itís also pretty obvious why Utah would be happy to have Hayward back, especially if dealing Gobert keeps Mitchell happy and they get some first-round picks to add to the Mitchell/Hayward show.
except Hayward signed in Charlotte during his first free agency, which Utah matched.  Hayward has never shown a desire to play in Utah.

He wanted to be paired with MJ and Kemba back then.

Offline gouki88

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I agree with you that we still need a big. And Iíve written on here as well that JT and JB are who you build around. Honestly, this would be a slam dunk trade for the Cís.

I donít think Utah would be interested tho. What happens to their roster? Ed Davis starts?

So in principle, I like it. But we need a 3rd team.
I was just fiddling around on the trade machine. What about something like this?

https://tradenba.com/trades/FovcI-mG0

Boston trades: Gordon Hayward, Romeo Langford, Daniel Theis, #14, #26
Boston receives: Rudy Gobert, Garret Temple

Utah trades: Rudy Gobert, Joe Ingles
Utah receives: Gordon Hayward, Jarrett Allen, Romeo Langford, Daniel Theis, #14, #19

Brooklyn trades: Jarrett Allen, Garret Temple, #19
Brooklyn receives: Joe Ingles, #26

Boston gets the defensive beast inside and a 3PT shooting veteran.

Utah gets massive cap flexibility and two picks in the top 20, alongside a young good C and a wing prospect.

Brooklyn gets a great playmaking marksman that has shown a strong ability to play off of stars, and a pick downgrade.

Who says no? Probably Utah, right?

If Iím Utah, why would I take that instead of Hayward and 3-5 first-round picks in return for merely unloading Gobert?
Because you get 2 first round picks, a young starting calibre big-man and a wing prospect who would be a first round pick this year, as well as a back-up big so that they can still easily be a playoff team

Offline Csfan1984

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For outside the box try a better group effort. Upgrade the bench and improve the starting line up. I'd sign Favors with the MLE but before that do a three way trade.

C's trade Hayward, picks 26, 30, 47 and VP
C's get Myles Turner and Terrence Ross.

Pacers trade Turner
Pacers get Aaron Gordon, VP and pick 30.

Magic trade Gordon and Ross
Magic get Hayward, picks 26 and 47.

C's end up with a center that fits and bench is upgraded.

Pacers get a better PF fit for Sabonis plus a 1st.

Magic get a better SF fit, a first, and second. Also if they don't like the fit Hayward is expiring so it can equal cap space the next year.

All three teams win.

C's end up as
PG-Walker, Smart, Edwards
SG-Brown, Langford, Green*
SF-Tatum, Ross, Semi*
PF-Theis, GW, pick 14*
C-Turner, Favors, TL

You could be flexible start Smart at times or Theis. Without a doubt you are 9 deep. Also all the bigs in the main rotation (Turner, Favors, GW and Theis) have some mobility and range game to not clog things up. I like it as a group effort.

Online slamtheking

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For outside the box try a better group effort. Upgrade the bench and improve the starting line up. I'd sign Favors with the MLE but before that do a three way trade.

C's trade Hayward, picks 26, 30, 47 and VP
C's get Myles Turner and Terrence Ross.

Pacers trade Turner
Pacers get Aaron Gordon, VP and pick 30.

Magic trade Gordon and Ross
Magic get Hayward, picks 26 and 47.

C's end up with a center that fits and bench is upgraded.

Pacers get a better PF fit for Sabonis plus a 1st.

Magic get a better SF fit, a first, and second. Also if they don't like the fit Hayward is expiring so it can equal cap space the next year.

All three teams win.

C's end up as
PG-Walker, Smart, Edwards
SG-Brown, Langford, Green*
SF-Tatum, Ross, Semi*
PF-Theis, GW, pick 14*
C-Turner, Favors, TL

You could be flexible start Smart at times or Theis. Without a doubt you are 9 deep. Also all the bigs in the main rotation (Turner, Favors, GW and Theis) have some mobility and range game to not clog things up. I like it as a group effort.
not digging that trade.  Not against moving on from Hayward at this point and I was a big Turner fan during his draft and for his first few years in the league but he's not developed past that point.   Seeing Turner as fool's gold at this point ==> rotational big man that won't be a better starter than Theis for us and will need continuous motivation to play with effort. 

Offline Csfan1984

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For outside the box try a better group effort. Upgrade the bench and improve the starting line up. I'd sign Favors with the MLE but before that do a three way trade.

C's trade Hayward, picks 26, 30, 47 and VP
C's get Myles Turner and Terrence Ross.

Pacers trade Turner
Pacers get Aaron Gordon, VP and pick 30.

Magic trade Gordon and Ross
Magic get Hayward, picks 26 and 47.

C's end up with a center that fits and bench is upgraded.

Pacers get a better PF fit for Sabonis plus a 1st.

Magic get a better SF fit, a first, and second. Also if they don't like the fit Hayward is expiring so it can equal cap space the next year.

All three teams win.

C's end up as
PG-Walker, Smart, Edwards
SG-Brown, Langford, Green*
SF-Tatum, Ross, Semi*
PF-Theis, GW, pick 14*
C-Turner, Favors, TL

You could be flexible start Smart at times or Theis. Without a doubt you are 9 deep. Also all the bigs in the main rotation (Turner, Favors, GW and Theis) have some mobility and range game to not clog things up. I like it as a group effort.
not digging that trade.  Not against moving on from Hayward at this point and I was a big Turner fan during his draft and for his first few years in the league but he's not developed past that point.   Seeing Turner as fool's gold at this point ==> rotational big man that won't be a better starter than Theis for us and will need continuous motivation to play with effort.
Competing for a chip and playing here might motivate Turner more. Also as I said it's about a group effort. Throwing a bunch of guys at an AD, Embiid or Bam. Trying to find one guy who can handle them isn't likely. As evidence of Nuggets and Heat. You need a bunch of guys to take down AD one won't do. You need a bunch to go against the 76ers if Simmons is healthy too. We should stock up instead of getting one guy who won't get it done anyways.

Offline gouki88

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For outside the box try a better group effort. Upgrade the bench and improve the starting line up. I'd sign Favors with the MLE but before that do a three way trade.

C's trade Hayward, picks 26, 30, 47 and VP
C's get Myles Turner and Terrence Ross.

Pacers trade Turner
Pacers get Aaron Gordon, VP and pick 30.

Magic trade Gordon and Ross
Magic get Hayward, picks 26 and 47.

C's end up with a center that fits and bench is upgraded.

Pacers get a better PF fit for Sabonis plus a 1st.

Magic get a better SF fit, a first, and second. Also if they don't like the fit Hayward is expiring so it can equal cap space the next year.

All three teams win.

C's end up as
PG-Walker, Smart, Edwards
SG-Brown, Langford, Green*
SF-Tatum, Ross, Semi*
PF-Theis, GW, pick 14*
C-Turner, Favors, TL

You could be flexible start Smart at times or Theis. Without a doubt you are 9 deep. Also all the bigs in the main rotation (Turner, Favors, GW and Theis) have some mobility and range game to not clog things up. I like it as a group effort.
No interest in Turner at all really

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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For outside the box try a better group effort. Upgrade the bench and improve the starting line up. I'd sign Favors with the MLE but before that do a three way trade.

C's trade Hayward, picks 26, 30, 47 and VP
C's get Myles Turner and Terrence Ross.

Pacers trade Turner
Pacers get Aaron Gordon, VP and pick 30.

Magic trade Gordon and Ross
Magic get Hayward, picks 26 and 47.

C's end up with a center that fits and bench is upgraded.

Pacers get a better PF fit for Sabonis plus a 1st.

Magic get a better SF fit, a first, and second. Also if they don't like the fit Hayward is expiring so it can equal cap space the next year.

All three teams win.

C's end up as
PG-Walker, Smart, Edwards
SG-Brown, Langford, Green*
SF-Tatum, Ross, Semi*
PF-Theis, GW, pick 14*
C-Turner, Favors, TL

You could be flexible start Smart at times or Theis. Without a doubt you are 9 deep. Also all the bigs in the main rotation (Turner, Favors, GW and Theis) have some mobility and range game to not clog things up. I like it as a group effort.
not digging that trade.  Not against moving on from Hayward at this point and I was a big Turner fan during his draft and for his first few years in the league but he's not developed past that point.   Seeing Turner as fool's gold at this point ==> rotational big man that won't be a better starter than Theis for us and will need continuous motivation to play with effort.
Competing for a chip and playing here might motivate Turner more. Also as I said it's about a group effort. Throwing a bunch of guys at an AD, Embiid or Bam. Trying to find one guy who can handle them isn't likely. As evidence of Nuggets and Heat. You need a bunch of guys to take down AD one won't do. You need a bunch to go against the 76ers if Simmons is healthy too. We should stock up instead of getting one guy who won't get it done anyways.

Disagree. Gobert was defensive player of the year 2017-2019 and would have won it this year if not for being NBA patient zero. If we want to stop Giannis and then AD, we need an NBA first/second team all-defender big. Gobert is the only one I can see who can pull it off more often than not in a seven game series.