Author Topic: Gobert for Jaylen Brown  (Read 1650 times)

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Re: Gobert for Jaylen Brown
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2020, 04:03:48 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Towns is definitely better than Jaylen Brown and would be more valuable to the Celtics.

KAT is the next guy to really monitor going forward. I'm sure they really wanted AD but were unsuccessful, and really the next closest thing to an elite big man acquisition might be KAT. Yeah he has his flaws but besides him who else really? Giannis? Although other teams may be even more interested in him including Miami, and also there's the possibility he just stays put in Milwaukee. It's not like MIL is a bad team + I imagine they'll try to add help for Giannis this offseason.

If you could acquire KAT for Brown, Smart and like a handful of future picks, go ahead. I love Smart but he's definitely expendable at the right price, plus his contract is perfect for salary-matching purposes. I'd prefer not to trade Brown AND Smart in the same deal but Tatum IMO should be off-limits.

Or maybe you convince them to take Hayward but that's even assuming he's still here beyond 2021.
I might actually be in favour of trading Tatum for Towns and assets if anything. While there won't be major fit issues with Tatum and Towns, I don't think there's going to be a synergy effect with the two that squeezes out more from the sum of the team's parts unless Towns becomes a pure PnR/PnP specialist and that's wasting his strong isolation scoring + lead creation. The idea of having Kemba play alongside KAT as our main duo creating the bulk of our offence while Hayward, Smart and Brown take turns being our third creator is tantalising due to everyone in that 5-man unit being able to play on or off the ball at a high level. My only concern with this is that Tatum is the perfect defensive forward to put next to Towns, so this is a pretty brain-wracking dilemma :laugh:.

Re: Gobert for Jaylen Brown
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2020, 04:06:53 AM »

Online gouki88

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Speaking of Gobert, anyone see this video of him playing with Victor Wembanyama?

https://youtu.be/-Ff57LckU3g

Wembanyama is a 73 230lbs 16 year-old French prospect with an 8 foot wingspan! Will be in either the 2022 or 2023 draft

Re: Gobert for Jaylen Brown
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2020, 07:46:30 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Speaking of Gobert, anyone see this video of him playing with Victor Wembanyama?

https://youtu.be/-Ff57LckU3g

Wembanyama is a 73 230lbs 16 year-old French prospect with an 8 foot wingspan! Will be in either the 2022 or 2023 draft
I almost thought he was playing with Victor Wanyama for a second there LOL. Also that kid looks absolutely nasty! Really needs to bulk up and work on his strength, but man the skills and physical tools are there.

Re: Gobert for Jaylen Brown
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2020, 08:42:15 AM »

Offline jambr380

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...Except this has nothing to do with Hayward, at all. Not sure how trading Brown for a better player, like KAT or Booker, is anything remotely resembling the "knee-jerk reaction" you're talking about....

There are a number of people who think that a two-way star in Brown is better and more valuable than Booker. While you'd have to accept a KAT for Brown deal based on positional need and value, I am perfectly happy sticking with Brown over Booker; and it shouldn't just be thrown out there as a common knowledge fact that Booker is better than Brown.

Re: Gobert for Jaylen Brown
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2020, 10:58:13 AM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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...Except this has nothing to do with Hayward, at all. Not sure how trading Brown for a better player, like KAT or Booker, is anything remotely resembling the "knee-jerk reaction" you're talking about....

There are a number of people who think that a two-way star in Brown is better and more valuable than Booker. While you'd have to accept a KAT for Brown deal based on positional need and value, I am perfectly happy sticking with Brown over Booker; and it shouldn't just be thrown out there as a common knowledge fact that Booker is better than Brown.

Why would it be accepted with either player is better than Brown?

Neither of those players have ever done anything of consequence in the postseason.

They're both good stats on bad teams guys... The Celtics already have 2 of those guys in Kemba and Hayward signed to huge contracts and continue to be perplexed when they no-show in big playoff series...

Meanwhile Brown has been the best or second best player on an ECF team twice...

Why would you throw out one of the two most consistent players on the team?

Re: Gobert for Jaylen Brown
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2020, 11:20:27 AM »

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...Except this has nothing to do with Hayward, at all. Not sure how trading Brown for a better player, like KAT or Booker, is anything remotely resembling the "knee-jerk reaction" you're talking about....
There are a number of people who think that a two-way star in Brown is better and more valuable than Booker. While you'd have to accept a KAT for Brown deal based on positional need and value, I am perfectly happy sticking with Brown over Booker; and it shouldn't just be thrown out there as a common knowledge fact that Booker is better than Brown.
Hm it depends. For teams who already have offensive centrepieces I'd pick Jaylen, but I'd pick Booker if I was GMing a strong defensive team with good shooters and extra passers who're best served as second or third bananas and needed a strong offensive hub that wouldn't take too much away from the little on-ball talent the team has (Booker has incorporated some really nifty off-ball movement this season to go along with his passing and shooting that fits decently next to on-ball talent). Honestly think that Booker is closer to being a top 20 player while Jaylen is closer to top 30 in a vacuum, but the gap isn't huge.

Re: Gobert for Jaylen Brown
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2020, 11:42:09 AM »

Offline Moranis

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As much as I think that Gobert is a superstar, I don't think I'd trade Brown for him. Wings who can have All-Star impact with a 3&D skillset are incredibly rare and Brown will only be 24 next season.
Gobert is only 28 and entering year 8, so he isn't exactly old and is entering what should be his best 4 years of his career i.e. years 8-11.  He has 2 DPOY and 3 All NBA Team appearances including 3rd Team last season.  He is a difference maker defensively and while not a guy that is going to give you range, has managed over 15 ppg in each of the last two seasons with 4 straight seasons with a TS% over 65% (including leading the league twice).  6 straight seasons of at least 2 bpg and 5 straight seasons of at least 10.7 rpg.  Gobert isn't a slouch.  He is a great player and plays the position and role that the Celtics most need. 
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Re: Gobert for Jaylen Brown
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2020, 12:21:19 PM »

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Like everyone Id just hate to see Jaylen Brown in any other uniform for the remainder of his career. Watching the Jays grow together over the next decade is the #1 source of sports excitement and anticipation for me.

But if DA thinks trading JB can get the Cs championship ready, Im on board. Brown for KAT seems like a no-brainer, but for Gobert Id be hoping they wouldnt need to give up Brown.  And I still dont see why Utah would trade Gobert, unless they are sure theyre going to lose him for nothing in a year.

Re: Gobert for Jaylen Brown
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2020, 12:27:04 PM »

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As much as I think that Gobert is a superstar, I don't think I'd trade Brown for him. Wings who can have All-Star impact with a 3&D skillset are incredibly rare and Brown will only be 24 next season.
Gobert is only 28 and entering year 8, so he isn't exactly old and is entering what should be his best 4 years of his career i.e. years 8-11.  He has 2 DPOY and 3 All NBA Team appearances including 3rd Team last season.  He is a difference maker defensively and while not a guy that is going to give you range, has managed over 15 ppg in each of the last two seasons with 4 straight seasons with a TS% over 65% (including leading the league twice).  6 straight seasons of at least 2 bpg and 5 straight seasons of at least 10.7 rpg.  Gobert isn't a slouch.  He is a great player and plays the position and role that the Celtics most need.

My expectation for Gobert is that he will peak young and decline early. The league is becoming more and more focused on quickness and agility. I expect slower bigs like Gobert to struggle more with that in the league today at an earlier age than they have in the past when they were better able to hang around the basket.

Also, the slow bigs who I would expect to best tackle this issue are the ones with a higher more versatile offensive repertoire. Guys who can shoot and pass at above average to high levels. That is not Gobert. He is a paint-only scorer with average passing ability.

My own personal expectation is that we have already seen Gobert's peak and that he will start to decline in the near future.
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Re: Gobert for Jaylen Brown
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2020, 12:31:28 PM »

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As much as I think that Gobert is a superstar, I don't think I'd trade Brown for him. Wings who can have All-Star impact with a 3&D skillset are incredibly rare and Brown will only be 24 next season.
Gobert is only 28 and entering year 8, so he isn't exactly old and is entering what should be his best 4 years of his career i.e. years 8-11.  He has 2 DPOY and 3 All NBA Team appearances including 3rd Team last season.  He is a difference maker defensively and while not a guy that is going to give you range, has managed over 15 ppg in each of the last two seasons with 4 straight seasons with a TS% over 65% (including leading the league twice).  6 straight seasons of at least 2 bpg and 5 straight seasons of at least 10.7 rpg.  Gobert isn't a slouch.  He is a great player and plays the position and role that the Celtics most need.
Yeah I've been banging the drum that Gobert has been a top 10-15 player for the past few years because of his strengths that you mentioned above and I'm not as bearish as Who on his future. Just really like Brown's skillset for high-end teams when he's a pretty high impact player by himself, he's playing like a low-end All-Star rn.

Re: Gobert for Jaylen Brown
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2020, 01:20:46 PM »

Offline jambr380

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...Except this has nothing to do with Hayward, at all. Not sure how trading Brown for a better player, like KAT or Booker, is anything remotely resembling the "knee-jerk reaction" you're talking about....

There are a number of people who think that a two-way star in Brown is better and more valuable than Booker. While you'd have to accept a KAT for Brown deal based on positional need and value, I am perfectly happy sticking with Brown over Booker; and it shouldn't just be thrown out there as a common knowledge fact that Booker is better than Brown.

Why would it be accepted with either player is better than Brown?

Neither of those players have ever done anything of consequence in the postseason.

They're both good stats on bad teams guys... The Celtics already have 2 of those guys in Kemba and Hayward signed to huge contracts and continue to be perplexed when they no-show in big playoff series...

Meanwhile Brown has been the best or second best player on an ECF team twice...

Why would you throw out one of the two most consistent players on the team?

Perhaps you misunderstood my post. I was responding to gouki who casually said that Booker and KAT were better than Brown. I disagreed with that take...at least in reference to Booker. I am fully in support of keeping Brown and building around him. He is my favorite player on the team.

Re: Gobert for Jaylen Brown
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2020, 01:29:17 PM »

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I agree that the Celtics need to retain Jaylen Brown. I suggest they trade Hayward, Theis, and all three 1st round picks to Minnesota for KAT.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 01:39:34 PM by SteveD »

Re: Gobert for Jaylen Brown
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2020, 01:35:25 PM »

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I see a bunch of trade ideas suggesting moving Jaylen for....whoever.

Does everyone realize they are suggesting trading the team's best and most consistent player during the playoffs? And not just these playoffs. Brown shines as a two way player during the playoffs, just look at his past playoff performances. The man is a weapon and every time he has down time, he comes back better with new offensive moves and improvement

I'm not trading Brown for anything less than a young top talent....Doncic, Giannis, Davis, Jokic, Zion might be the only ones

Re: Gobert for Jaylen Brown
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2020, 04:55:06 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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I see a bunch of trade ideas suggesting moving Jaylen for....whoever.

Does everyone realize they are suggesting trading the team's best and most consistent player during the playoffs? And not just these playoffs. Brown shines as a two way player during the playoffs, just look at his past playoff performances. The man is a weapon and every time he has down time, he comes back better with new offensive moves and improvement

I'm not trading Brown for anything less than a young top talent....Doncic, Giannis, Davis, Jokic, Zion might be the only ones

Thank you!  Well said. TP.

Re: Gobert for Jaylen Brown
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2020, 05:17:22 PM »

Online gouki88

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...Except this has nothing to do with Hayward, at all. Not sure how trading Brown for a better player, like KAT or Booker, is anything remotely resembling the "knee-jerk reaction" you're talking about....

There are a number of people who think that a two-way star in Brown is better and more valuable than Booker. While you'd have to accept a KAT for Brown deal based on positional need and value, I am perfectly happy sticking with Brown over Booker; and it shouldn't just be thrown out there as a common knowledge fact that Booker is better than Brown.

Why would it be accepted with either player is better than Brown?

Neither of those players have ever done anything of consequence in the postseason.

They're both good stats on bad teams guys... The Celtics already have 2 of those guys in Kemba and Hayward signed to huge contracts and continue to be perplexed when they no-show in big playoff series...

Meanwhile Brown has been the best or second best player on an ECF team twice...

Why would you throw out one of the two most consistent players on the team?

Perhaps you misunderstood my post. I was responding to gouki who casually said that Booker and KAT were better than Brown. I disagreed with that take...at least in reference to Booker. I am fully in support of keeping Brown and building around him. He is my favorite player on the team.
I guess it's a matter of personal preference. Booker is a 23 year-old who has averaged 27/7/4 over the last two seasons with ever-improving efficiency. Brown is obviously night and day the better defender, but Booker is a better scorer and passer than I see Brown ever becoming. Hence why I said I'd try and flip Kemba for Holiday in such a scenario, because otherwise we'd have a back-court that was basically just the Portland back-court.

I think in a vacuum Booker is quite comfortably a better player though. If he can channel bubble-Booker for a whole season he's in the MVP race