Author Topic: Pres Trump & Melania contract covid  (Read 13198 times)

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Re: Pres Trump & Melania contract covid
« Reply #210 on: October 08, 2020, 09:00:44 PM »

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Here is a very good article about this (looks at excess death numbers to try to understand what is going on with COVID death numbers):

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/are-we-undercounting-or-overcounting-covid-19-deaths-2020-09-30

If anything, there is more evidence of _under_ counting COVID-19 deaths than over-counting.

Broken link.

Lol I think the profanity filter tells us what the link should be. I’ll try to remember to check it out tomorrow.

Re: Pres Trump & Melania contract covid
« Reply #211 on: October 08, 2020, 10:42:32 PM »

Online mmmmm

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Here is a very good article about this (looks at excess death numbers to try to understand what is going on with COVID death numbers):

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/are-we-undercounting-or-overcounting-covid-19-deaths-2020-09-30

If anything, there is more evidence of _under_ counting COVID-19 deaths than over-counting.

Broken link.
Sigh ... silly profanity filter!   "market" "watch"   Fill in the blanks.  :D

« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 11:10:37 PM by mmmmm »
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Pres Trump & Melania contract covid
« Reply #212 on: October 09, 2020, 08:39:44 AM »

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  • Jim Loscutoff
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Here is a very good article about this (looks at excess death numbers to try to understand what is going on with COVID death numbers):

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/are-we-undercounting-or-overcounting-covid-19-deaths-2020-09-30

If anything, there is more evidence of _under_ counting COVID-19 deaths than over-counting.

Broken link.
Sigh ... silly profanity filter!   "market" "watch"   Fill in the blanks.  :D

Oh. This is just stating the excess mortality explanation. I was hoping someone was actually digging into and classifying causes of deaths. I was surprised because I don't expect this to happen for years.

Re: Pres Trump & Melania contract covid
« Reply #213 on: October 09, 2020, 10:22:21 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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The word "sometimes" is an escape clause against hard facts but it is dangerously misleading.  The only recorded years where a form of the flu has killed over 100,000 Americans have been 1918 (Spanish flu), 1957 and 1968.  So if you think 3 times over the last 100 years counts as 'sometimes' then the tweet stays from outright lying.

But it is still absurdly misleading.

The CDC recorded just over 22,000 deaths caused by the flu in the 2019-2020 flu season.

So, even with all the mitigations to fight the spread of COVID-19, the latter has killed nearly 10 times as many Americans since early March as the flu killed all last season.   It is far, far more lethal than the flu.  And far far more aggressive at propagation.

Your argument relies on the validity of reported COVID-19-related deaths, which is largely in question.  Major academic medical centers across the country incentivized C19 diagnoses on admission, treatment (i.e. ventilators), and discharge; a handful of Democratic mayors placed C19+ patients in nursing homes, quite possibly the stupidest legislation I've ever seen; and C19 is not "far, far" more lethal than the flu - while more contagious, data suggests it's possibly less lethal in younger populations. We knew this long ago, when antibody testing began (far more reliable and valid than the C19 tests, in general), but some leftists and MSM refused to acknowledge it.

No. Not really.  Not by anyone with any real credibility on this.  I'm sorry, but I'm going to trust the Johns Hopkins University a bit more than I'm going to trust you on this.

Suit yourself.  You choose to trust a liberal institution with an agenda.  I choose to trust the raw data I've received - as an employee - from an equally strong academic hospital.  The incentives to classify patients C19+ are very well-documented, and the nursing home fiasco is as well, but I can't force you to see reality.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 10:52:06 PM by tarheelsxxiii »

Re: Pres Trump & Melania contract covid
« Reply #214 on: October 09, 2020, 10:26:07 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Twitter had to put a warning on this tweet from the President.



Twitter apparently has guidelines around disputed or misleading information and specifically having to do with Covid:

“In March, we broadened our policy guidance to address content that goes directly against guidance on COVID-19 from authoritative sources of global and local public health information“

So I think Trump’s tweet meets criteria.

It’s probably my lawyerly brain, but are any of his statements false, or directly contrary to health advice?  Factually, it probably comes down to what “most populations” means. 

But, regardless, this is our presidency now, leaving the electorate to parse dubious tweets.

The word "sometimes" is an escape clause against hard facts but it is dangerously misleading.  The only recorded years where a form of the flu has killed over 100,000 Americans have been 1918 (Spanish flu), 1957 and 1968.  So if you think 3 times over the last 100 years counts as 'sometimes' then the tweet stays from outright lying.

But it is still absurdly misleading.

The CDC recorded just over 22,000 deaths caused by the flu in the 2019-2020 flu season.

So, even with all the mitigations to fight the spread of COVID-19, the latter has killed nearly 10 times as many Americans since early March as the flu killed all last season.   It is far, far more lethal than the flu.  And far far more aggressive at propagation.

Your argument relies on the validity of reported COVID-19-related deaths, which is largely in question.  Major academic medical centers across the country incentivized C19 diagnoses on admission, treatment (i.e. ventilators), and discharge; a handful of Democratic mayors placed C19+ patients in nursing homes, quite possibly the stupidest legislation I've ever seen; and C19 is not "far, far" more lethal than the flu - while more contagious, data suggests it's possibly less lethal in younger populations. We knew this long ago, when antibody testing began (far more reliable and valid than the C19 tests, in general), but some leftists and MSM refused to acknowledge it.
Simply put, no, it is not. Really lame conspiracy theory to peddle

No? You must be familiar with the $ each hospital was reimbursed by government insurance for a C19 diagnosis.

And the additional benefits from placing a patient on a respirator.

And the diagnostic criteria being used by top academic medical centers across the country.

And the antibody research - largely ignored - that was conducted several months ago and revealed the actual consequences of C19.

And the amount of money that has been lost at major academic medical centers within this time, highlighting how badly they need this money (e.g. 1 billion by Jan 1st at mine).

"Conspiracy theory" is a label born out of ignorance and the mainstream media, but far from reality.

Re: Pres Trump & Melania contract covid
« Reply #215 on: October 09, 2020, 10:30:19 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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The word "sometimes" is an escape clause against hard facts but it is dangerously misleading.  The only recorded years where a form of the flu has killed over 100,000 Americans have been 1918 (Spanish flu), 1957 and 1968.  So if you think 3 times over the last 100 years counts as 'sometimes' then the tweet stays from outright lying.

But it is still absurdly misleading.

The CDC recorded just over 22,000 deaths caused by the flu in the 2019-2020 flu season.

So, even with all the mitigations to fight the spread of COVID-19, the latter has killed nearly 10 times as many Americans since early March as the flu killed all last season.   It is far, far more lethal than the flu.  And far far more aggressive at propagation.

Your argument relies on the validity of reported COVID-19-related deaths, which is largely in question.  Major academic medical centers across the country incentivized C19 diagnoses on admission, treatment (i.e. ventilators), and discharge; a handful of Democratic mayors placed C19+ patients in nursing homes, quite possibly the stupidest legislation I've ever seen; and C19 is not "far, far" more lethal than the flu - while more contagious, data suggests it's possibly less lethal in younger populations. We knew this long ago, when antibody testing began (far more reliable and valid than the C19 tests, in general), but some leftists and MSM refused to acknowledge it.

No. Not really.  Not by anyone with any real credibility on this.  I'm sorry, but I'm going to trust the Johns Hopkins University a bit more than I'm going to trust you on this.

The worst part is this conspiracy theory doesn't even make sense. The argument is that medical centers are over treating or over diagnosing covid to make money? Most hospitals are going to take an absolute beating through the loss of elective surgeries and other scheduled hospital visits during this pandemic. There's no real financial incentive to "fake" or "overinflate" a pandemic.

If you want to believe covid cases/deaths are over reported then you either have to believe hospitals are systematically working against their best interests, or that a vast majority of doctors in the country are morons.

But I get it, the numbers are so overwhelming horrible that if you want to make a case against the seriousness of covid you have no choice but to cover your ears and scream conspiracy.

Let's please stop calling any takes a "conspiracy" simply because it's not reported by MSM.  There's far more evidence in favor of my position, it just hasn't reached the masses.

You've also provided more support for my position, not less -- hospitals are taking an absolute beating financially, which is a primary reason why they are liberally classifying C19 on admission and a cause of death.  The other is political, as these institutions are largely very liberal leaning.  When all of a major hospital's employees are encouraged to walk outside and take a knee for 8+ mins after the Floyd event, and town halls are devoted to fighting systematic racism every week for months on end, the intention becomes very clear.

Re: Pres Trump & Melania contract covid
« Reply #216 on: October 09, 2020, 11:32:06 PM »

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The word "sometimes" is an escape clause against hard facts but it is dangerously misleading.  The only recorded years where a form of the flu has killed over 100,000 Americans have been 1918 (Spanish flu), 1957 and 1968.  So if you think 3 times over the last 100 years counts as 'sometimes' then the tweet stays from outright lying.

But it is still absurdly misleading.

The CDC recorded just over 22,000 deaths caused by the flu in the 2019-2020 flu season.

So, even with all the mitigations to fight the spread of COVID-19, the latter has killed nearly 10 times as many Americans since early March as the flu killed all last season.   It is far, far more lethal than the flu.  And far far more aggressive at propagation.

Your argument relies on the validity of reported COVID-19-related deaths, which is largely in question.  Major academic medical centers across the country incentivized C19 diagnoses on admission, treatment (i.e. ventilators), and discharge; a handful of Democratic mayors placed C19+ patients in nursing homes, quite possibly the stupidest legislation I've ever seen; and C19 is not "far, far" more lethal than the flu - while more contagious, data suggests it's possibly less lethal in younger populations. We knew this long ago, when antibody testing began (far more reliable and valid than the C19 tests, in general), but some leftists and MSM refused to acknowledge it.

No. Not really.  Not by anyone with any real credibility on this.  I'm sorry, but I'm going to trust the Johns Hopkins University a bit more than I'm going to trust you on this.

The worst part is this conspiracy theory doesn't even make sense. The argument is that medical centers are over treating or over diagnosing covid to make money? Most hospitals are going to take an absolute beating through the loss of elective surgeries and other scheduled hospital visits during this pandemic. There's no real financial incentive to "fake" or "overinflate" a pandemic.

If you want to believe covid cases/deaths are over reported then you either have to believe hospitals are systematically working against their best interests, or that a vast majority of doctors in the country are morons.

But I get it, the numbers are so overwhelming horrible that if you want to make a case against the seriousness of covid you have no choice but to cover your ears and scream conspiracy.

Let's please stop calling any takes a "conspiracy" simply because it's not reported by MSM.  There's far more evidence in favor of my position, it just hasn't reached the masses.

You've also provided more support for my position, not less -- hospitals are taking an absolute beating financially, which is a primary reason why they are liberally classifying C19 on admission and a cause of death.  The other is political, as these institutions are largely very liberal leaning.  When all of a major hospital's employees are encouraged to walk outside and take a knee for 8+ mins after the Floyd event, and town halls are devoted to fighting systematic racism every week for months on end, the intention becomes very clear.

Each side has the right to be driven by their own biases.  We are united by only one fact - none of us know the absolute truth.  We trust - have faith - in the evidence and anecdotes that we choose to have faith in. Having evidence that is currently only shared to those ‘in the know’ and not the masses doesn’t help your credibility, but it doesn’t mean you’re wrong.   If your claim is that there is an organized approach to keep the evidence from the masses and only in the hands of the truth-bearers, well than I’d say there couldn’t be a better word for that than conspiracy.

Re: Pres Trump & Melania contract covid
« Reply #217 on: October 09, 2020, 11:40:44 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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The word "sometimes" is an escape clause against hard facts but it is dangerously misleading.  The only recorded years where a form of the flu has killed over 100,000 Americans have been 1918 (Spanish flu), 1957 and 1968.  So if you think 3 times over the last 100 years counts as 'sometimes' then the tweet stays from outright lying.

But it is still absurdly misleading.

The CDC recorded just over 22,000 deaths caused by the flu in the 2019-2020 flu season.

So, even with all the mitigations to fight the spread of COVID-19, the latter has killed nearly 10 times as many Americans since early March as the flu killed all last season.   It is far, far more lethal than the flu.  And far far more aggressive at propagation.

Your argument relies on the validity of reported COVID-19-related deaths, which is largely in question.  Major academic medical centers across the country incentivized C19 diagnoses on admission, treatment (i.e. ventilators), and discharge; a handful of Democratic mayors placed C19+ patients in nursing homes, quite possibly the stupidest legislation I've ever seen; and C19 is not "far, far" more lethal than the flu - while more contagious, data suggests it's possibly less lethal in younger populations. We knew this long ago, when antibody testing began (far more reliable and valid than the C19 tests, in general), but some leftists and MSM refused to acknowledge it.

No. Not really.  Not by anyone with any real credibility on this.  I'm sorry, but I'm going to trust the Johns Hopkins University a bit more than I'm going to trust you on this.

The worst part is this conspiracy theory doesn't even make sense. The argument is that medical centers are over treating or over diagnosing covid to make money? Most hospitals are going to take an absolute beating through the loss of elective surgeries and other scheduled hospital visits during this pandemic. There's no real financial incentive to "fake" or "overinflate" a pandemic.

If you want to believe covid cases/deaths are over reported then you either have to believe hospitals are systematically working against their best interests, or that a vast majority of doctors in the country are morons.

But I get it, the numbers are so overwhelming horrible that if you want to make a case against the seriousness of covid you have no choice but to cover your ears and scream conspiracy.

Let's please stop calling any takes a "conspiracy" simply because it's not reported by MSM.  There's far more evidence in favor of my position, it just hasn't reached the masses.

You've also provided more support for my position, not less -- hospitals are taking an absolute beating financially, which is a primary reason why they are liberally classifying C19 on admission and a cause of death.  The other is political, as these institutions are largely very liberal leaning.  When all of a major hospital's employees are encouraged to walk outside and take a knee for 8+ mins after the Floyd event, and town halls are devoted to fighting systematic racism every week for months on end, the intention becomes very clear.

Each side has the right to be driven by their own biases.  We are united by only one fact - none of us know the absolute truth.  We trust - have faith - in the evidence and anecdotes that we choose to have faith in. Having evidence that is currently only shared to those ‘in the know’ and not the masses doesn’t help your credibility, but it doesn’t mean you’re wrong.   If your claim is that there is an organized approach to keep the evidence from the masses and only in the hands of the truth-bearers, well than I’d say there couldn’t be a better word for that than conspiracy.

I think "conspiracy" carries a connotation of illegitimacy, perhaps because of how often it's been used in the MSM.

That said, I appreciate your open-mindedness -- your approach to discussing these loaded issues is refreshing and opens the doors for more respectful discourse.  We could all learn from your disposition here, imo.

Re: Pres Trump & Melania contract covid
« Reply #218 on: October 22, 2020, 06:39:42 AM »

Offline riledup12

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I think this is just 'what would be the biggest thing to happen to get me in the news right before the election?' rather than is it negative that the Trump gets covid?

They would have just hidden it if it was so negative.

Nope they made a huge thing about it (real or faked) to get a week or 2 pure coverage of Trump while also drowning out any democratic events/news.

https://www.sportsbetting3.com/politics/us-presidential-election-odds
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 12:35:21 PM by riledup12 »