Author Topic: New Project by Thinking Basketball: Greatest Peaks of All-Time  (Read 4411 times)

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Re: New Project by Thinking Basketball: Greatest Peaks of All-Time
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2020, 08:54:13 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I want to hear the argument for Peak Wilt not being in the top seven.
this was to be my point.

in 1961-62 wilt averaged 50.4 points and 24.7 rebounds per game while playing 48.5 minutes a game. :o

i am curious who beats that.

Thinking Basketball usually normalizes player stats to be per 75 possessions. If I recall correctly, there were almost twice as many possessions per game in the 60s as there are today as well as more misses per game.

Not twice as many possessions.  Closer to 20% more.  Teams averaged just over 100 possessions per 48 minutes in 2020; in 1963 it was around 119 possessions per 48.

It does inflate the stats in comparative terms.  At the same time, imagine the conditioning he had, playing 48 minutes every night at a 25% faster pace than today.
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Re: New Project by Thinking Basketball: Greatest Peaks of All-Time
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2020, 07:17:52 AM »

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I want to hear the argument for Peak Wilt not being in the top seven.
this was to be my point.

in 1961-62 wilt averaged 50.4 points and 24.7 rebounds per game while playing 48.5 minutes a game. :o

i am curious who beats that.
https://backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the-backpicks-goat-the-40-best-careers-in-nba-history/
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Re: New Project by Thinking Basketball: Greatest Peaks of All-Time
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2020, 07:18:19 AM »

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I want to hear the argument for Peak Wilt not being in the top seven.
this was to be my point.

in 1961-62 wilt averaged 50.4 points and 24.7 rebounds per game while playing 48.5 minutes a game. :o

i am curious who beats that.

Thinking Basketball usually normalizes player stats to be per 75 possessions. If I recall correctly, there were almost twice as many possessions per game in the 60s as there are today as well as more misses per game.

Not twice as many possessions.  Closer to 20% more.  Teams averaged just over 100 possessions per 48 minutes in 2020; in 1963 it was around 119 possessions per 48.

It does inflate the stats in comparative terms.  At the same time, imagine the conditioning he had, playing 48 minutes every night at a 25% faster pace than today.
You can read the argument here, Roy.

https://backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the-backpicks-goat-the-40-best-careers-in-nba-history/
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Re: New Project by Thinking Basketball: Greatest Peaks of All-Time
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2020, 02:43:21 PM »

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Episode 1 is out!
https://youtu.be/kCKSvjBnCRQ

Here's the case for Wilt being potentially below Russell :o, I certainly didn't expect that from his charts in his top 40 project but apparently he's going with 2+ year peaks so it makes a bit of sense.
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Re: New Project by Thinking Basketball: Greatest Peaks of All-Time
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2020, 02:59:06 PM »

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I'm so tired of these discussions comparing players across eras.

It's basically a different sport now.  Titanic shifts in how the game has played, not to mention how the league is structured, have occurred several times over the last 50 years.
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Re: New Project by Thinking Basketball: Greatest Peaks of All-Time
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2020, 09:07:50 PM »

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I'm so tired of these discussions comparing players across eras.

It's basically a different sport now.  Titanic shifts in how the game has played, not to mention how the league is structured, have occurred several times over the last 50 years.
These episodes are in chronological order so they aren't comparing players from different eras until the final one where it will stack everyone up against each other, and even then it'll be comparing in-era impact.
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Re: New Project by Thinking Basketball: Greatest Peaks of All-Time
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2020, 12:25:48 AM »

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Next episode will be about Bill Walton (and probably Jabbar as well, Ben Taylor has Jabbar's '77 campaign as his peak season so Jabbar's late 70s stretch will likely be covered in the video).
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Re: New Project by Thinking Basketball: Greatest Peaks of All-Time
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2020, 12:16:07 PM »

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Episode 1 is out!
https://youtu.be/kCKSvjBnCRQ

Here's the case for Wilt being potentially below Russell :o, I certainly didn't expect that from his charts in his top 40 project but apparently he's going with 2+ year peaks so it makes a bit of sense.

Just watched this video and came here to talk about it.

Russell would've been an analytics darling in today's game.

It also makes me think about hos similar Bam Adebayo's game is to Russell's.
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Re: New Project by Thinking Basketball: Greatest Peaks of All-Time
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2020, 04:50:56 PM »

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Blazermania is here!

https://youtu.be/EYYR4imoi-I

Kareem's episode is coming up next week :laugh:
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Re: New Project by Thinking Basketball: Greatest Peaks of All-Time
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2020, 05:19:17 PM »

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Not impressed by the rankings.

Olajuwon over Kareem, Bird, and Wilt?
Garnett 2004 is way too high. 
Bird should be ahead of over half the guys listed over him.
Magic too.  Putting 3 of Robinsonís seasons over Magicís best season is absurd.  Every one of Magicís pre first retirement seasons should be ahead of Robinsonís best season. 

Re: New Project by Thinking Basketball: Greatest Peaks of All-Time
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2020, 09:05:52 PM »

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I want to hear the argument for Peak Wilt not being in the top seven.
this was to be my point.

in 1961-62 wilt averaged 50.4 points and 24.7 rebounds per game while playing 48.5 minutes a game. :o

i am curious who beats that.

Thinking Basketball usually normalizes player stats to be per 75 possessions. If I recall correctly, there were almost twice as many possessions per game in the 60s as there are today as well as more misses per game.

Not twice as many possessions.  Closer to 20% more.  Teams averaged just over 100 possessions per 48 minutes in 2020; in 1963 it was around 119 possessions per 48.

It does inflate the stats in comparative terms.  At the same time, imagine the conditioning he had, playing 48 minutes every night at a 25% faster pace than today.
He doesn't have Oscar on there at all.  You know the guy that if you combined his first 5 seasons averaged over 30 ppg and right around 11 rpg and 11 apg.  For FIVE consecutive years.  And I know the pace was faster, but Oscar led the league in assists by over 4 apg some years (and he doubled up 3rd place multiple seasons) and they didn't count them the same way then as they do now (he would have had more and probably actually averaged a triple double more than once). 

It is almost like he is harming the players that played more minutes by normalizing everyone to the same amount of mpg, but you shouldn't do things like that because you eliminate the true advantage of someone like Wilt, i.e. he could play 48 minutes all 82 games.  Wilt was not only the strongest man the league has ever seen but also one of the best conditioned and well rounded athletes the league has seen.  That has to be accounted for or you really do a disservice. 

Adjusting for pace, Jordan's 33/8/8 is probably the greatest season ever, but Wilt was 2nd, with Oscar not far behind. 
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Re: New Project by Thinking Basketball: Greatest Peaks of All-Time
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2020, 11:34:28 PM »

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I want to hear the argument for Peak Wilt not being in the top seven.
this was to be my point.

in 1961-62 wilt averaged 50.4 points and 24.7 rebounds per game while playing 48.5 minutes a game. :o

i am curious who beats that.

Thinking Basketball usually normalizes player stats to be per 75 possessions. If I recall correctly, there were almost twice as many possessions per game in the 60s as there are today as well as more misses per game.

Not twice as many possessions.  Closer to 20% more.  Teams averaged just over 100 possessions per 48 minutes in 2020; in 1963 it was around 119 possessions per 48.

It does inflate the stats in comparative terms.  At the same time, imagine the conditioning he had, playing 48 minutes every night at a 25% faster pace than today.
He doesn't have Oscar on there at all.  You know the guy that if you combined his first 5 seasons averaged over 30 ppg and right around 11 rpg and 11 apg.  For FIVE consecutive years.  And I know the pace was faster, but Oscar led the league in assists by over 4 apg some years (and he doubled up 3rd place multiple seasons) and they didn't count them the same way then as they do now (he would have had more and probably actually averaged a triple double more than once). 

It is almost like he is harming the players that played more minutes by normalizing everyone to the same amount of mpg, but you shouldn't do things like that because you eliminate the true advantage of someone like Wilt, i.e. he could play 48 minutes all 82 games.  Wilt was not only the strongest man the league has ever seen but also one of the best conditioned and well rounded athletes the league has seen.  That has to be accounted for or you really do a disservice. 

Adjusting for pace, Jordan's 33/8/8 is probably the greatest season ever, but Wilt was 2nd, with Oscar not far behind.
This project focuses on post-merger peaks, so guys like West and Oscar didn't make it. Russell and Wilt was a prelude. Nevertheless he does have an article on Oscar's career and his peak wasn't far behind West's: https://backpicks.com/2017/12/21/backpicks-goat-12-oscar-robertson/
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 11:45:13 PM by Somebody »
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Re: New Project by Thinking Basketball: Greatest Peaks of All-Time
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2020, 11:44:47 PM »

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Not impressed by the rankings.

Olajuwon over Kareem, Bird, and Wilt?
Garnett 2004 is way too high. 
Bird should be ahead of over half the guys listed over him.
Magic too.  Putting 3 of Robinsonís seasons over Magicís best season is absurd.  Every one of Magicís pre first retirement seasons should be ahead of Robinsonís best season.
Bird and Magic didn't have two-way impact to boost their peaks (Bird's defence started to decline as the mid-80s rolled around, he was no longer an All-League force on that end by '86). FWIW he has the peaks of Robinson and Magic really close in his top 40 project, he could certainly have them flipped in the final episode of this project.
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Re: New Project by Thinking Basketball: Greatest Peaks of All-Time
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2020, 01:26:29 PM »

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Kareem has arrived!

https://youtu.be/lCQos0zUaFA
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Re: New Project by Thinking Basketball: Greatest Peaks of All-Time
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2020, 02:30:25 PM »

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Kareem has arrived!

https://youtu.be/lCQos0zUaFA

Not bad considering he was moonlighting as a pilot https://youtu.be/ArHNrCvwq4c and a Korean martial artist gangster https://youtu.be/8ic2k2P_FG0