Author Topic: Trump's America  (Read 11308 times)

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Re: Trump's America
« Reply #75 on: October 02, 2020, 10:56:26 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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Agreed. This is a big problem.

There is a disconnect between the role of government and some people's desires. It doesn't change the fact that it's as clear as day as to what the roles are.


I heard a lot of people saying how it was great how China handled COVID so fast... well what you're missing there is that they can do that because you're giving up a significant amount of your personal freedoms to accomplish that through their quasi dictatorship.

If every single city and state shut down at the exact same time, it would have significantly stopped COVID. It's just not realistic in our form of government at all... and Trump is the scapegoat for that, unfortunately.

No man, this isn't actually the issue. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but the federal government is for better or worse IMMENSELY powerful. And its situations exactly like this where that power can best be used for the good of people. It wasn't.  THAT'S THE FAILURE HERE. The leader of the free world failed to lead. He failed to even follow.

People are rightfully p---ed because they DO UNDERSTAND the role of the federal government, and it failed them here.

I urge you to read through the entire constitution. It's 96 pages.

Ahh the siren song of every person who has every lost lost an argument about politics.

I accept your surrender sir. 

Re: Trump's America
« Reply #76 on: October 02, 2020, 11:10:41 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Knock the crap off.  Be civil.


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Re: Trump's America
« Reply #77 on: October 02, 2020, 11:14:51 AM »

Offline gift

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Agreed. This is a big problem.

There is a disconnect between the role of government and some people's desires. It doesn't change the fact that it's as clear as day as to what the roles are.


I heard a lot of people saying how it was great how China handled COVID so fast... well what you're missing there is that they can do that because you're giving up a significant amount of your personal freedoms to accomplish that through their quasi dictatorship.

If every single city and state shut down at the exact same time, it would have significantly stopped COVID. It's just not realistic in our form of government at all... and Trump is the scapegoat for that, unfortunately.

No man, this isn't actually the issue. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but the federal government is for better or worse IMMENSELY powerful. And its situations exactly like this where that power can best be used for the good of people. It wasn't.  THAT'S THE FAILURE HERE. The leader of the free world failed to lead. He failed to even follow.

People are rightfully p---ed because they DO UNDERSTAND the role of the federal government, and it failed them here.

I urge you to read through the entire constitution. It's 96 pages.

Ahh the siren song of every person who has every lost lost an argument about politics.

I accept your surrender sir.

What is the role of the US federal government?

Re: Trump's America
« Reply #78 on: October 02, 2020, 11:20:47 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Agreed. This is a big problem.

There is a disconnect between the role of government and some people's desires. It doesn't change the fact that it's as clear as day as to what the roles are.


I heard a lot of people saying how it was great how China handled COVID so fast... well what you're missing there is that they can do that because you're giving up a significant amount of your personal freedoms to accomplish that through their quasi dictatorship.

If every single city and state shut down at the exact same time, it would have significantly stopped COVID. It's just not realistic in our form of government at all... and Trump is the scapegoat for that, unfortunately.

No man, this isn't actually the issue. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but the federal government is for better or worse IMMENSELY powerful. And its situations exactly like this where that power can best be used for the good of people. It wasn't.  THAT'S THE FAILURE HERE. The leader of the free world failed to lead. He failed to even follow.

People are rightfully p---ed because they DO UNDERSTAND the role of the federal government, and it failed them here.

I urge you to read through the entire constitution. It's 96 pages.

Ahh the siren song of every person who has every lost lost an argument about politics.

I accept your surrender sir.

What is the role of the US federal government?

Very subjective, isn't it?


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: Trump's America
« Reply #79 on: October 02, 2020, 11:42:12 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Agreed. This is a big problem.

There is a disconnect between the role of government and some people's desires. It doesn't change the fact that it's as clear as day as to what the roles are.


I heard a lot of people saying how it was great how China handled COVID so fast... well what you're missing there is that they can do that because you're giving up a significant amount of your personal freedoms to accomplish that through their quasi dictatorship.

If every single city and state shut down at the exact same time, it would have significantly stopped COVID. It's just not realistic in our form of government at all... and Trump is the scapegoat for that, unfortunately.

No man, this isn't actually the issue. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but the federal government is for better or worse IMMENSELY powerful. And its situations exactly like this where that power can best be used for the good of people. It wasn't.  THAT'S THE FAILURE HERE. The leader of the free world failed to lead. He failed to even follow.

People are rightfully p---ed because they DO UNDERSTAND the role of the federal government, and it failed them here.

I urge you to read through the entire constitution. It's 96 pages.

Ahh the siren song of every person who has every lost lost an argument about politics.

I accept your surrender sir.

What is the role of the US federal government?

Very subjective, isn't it?

I don't think it actually is, or at least was never intended to be. But I do concede what people want the role of the federal government to be is subjective.

Which, of course, is why the SCOTUS is so important to so many and is so strongly fought over. The only other way to fight that battle is through constitutional amendment, but that's a nearly impossible hill to climb.

Re: Trump's America
« Reply #80 on: October 02, 2020, 11:46:47 AM »

Offline gift

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Agreed. This is a big problem.

There is a disconnect between the role of government and some people's desires. It doesn't change the fact that it's as clear as day as to what the roles are.


I heard a lot of people saying how it was great how China handled COVID so fast... well what you're missing there is that they can do that because you're giving up a significant amount of your personal freedoms to accomplish that through their quasi dictatorship.

If every single city and state shut down at the exact same time, it would have significantly stopped COVID. It's just not realistic in our form of government at all... and Trump is the scapegoat for that, unfortunately.

No man, this isn't actually the issue. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but the federal government is for better or worse IMMENSELY powerful. And its situations exactly like this where that power can best be used for the good of people. It wasn't.  THAT'S THE FAILURE HERE. The leader of the free world failed to lead. He failed to even follow.

People are rightfully p---ed because they DO UNDERSTAND the role of the federal government, and it failed them here.

I urge you to read through the entire constitution. It's 96 pages.

Ahh the siren song of every person who has every lost lost an argument about politics.

I accept your surrender sir.

What is the role of the US federal government?

Very subjective, isn't it?

Yep. That's why I advocate for a national, civic conversation because we have disparate groups becoming progressively insular so that they can't even communicate on the same issue. I believe the original intention was, at the very least, to have less variation in the range of opinions about the legitimacy of federal authority than currently exists today. Some standards need to be widely established or re-established in order to get us closer to on the same page. I personally think questioning legitimacy of authority, role of government generally, and reviewing the constitution are good starting points.

Re: Trump's America
« Reply #81 on: October 02, 2020, 01:33:20 PM »

Offline Erik

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Anyone else notice the irony of people, who claim that Trump is an authoritarian, are upset that he doesnít surpass his constitutionally limited authority on a variety of issues ? Why do independents and conservatives routinely have to remind leftists that this isnít China?

Re: Trump's America
« Reply #82 on: October 02, 2020, 02:08:14 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Agreed. This is a big problem.

There is a disconnect between the role of government and some people's desires. It doesn't change the fact that it's as clear as day as to what the roles are.


I heard a lot of people saying how it was great how China handled COVID so fast... well what you're missing there is that they can do that because you're giving up a significant amount of your personal freedoms to accomplish that through their quasi dictatorship.

If every single city and state shut down at the exact same time, it would have significantly stopped COVID. It's just not realistic in our form of government at all... and Trump is the scapegoat for that, unfortunately.

No man, this isn't actually the issue. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but the federal government is for better or worse IMMENSELY powerful. And its situations exactly like this where that power can best be used for the good of people. It wasn't.  THAT'S THE FAILURE HERE. The leader of the free world failed to lead. He failed to even follow.

People are rightfully p---ed because they DO UNDERSTAND the role of the federal government, and it failed them here.

I urge you to read through the entire constitution. It's 96 pages.

Ahh the siren song of every person who has every lost lost an argument about politics.

I accept your surrender sir.

What is the role of the US federal government?

Very subjective, isn't it?

I wouldn't say so. If we go by the Constitution, which is what we should be going by, the federal government's powers are supposed to be pretty limited; in fact, I think it's safe to say that the Founders intended for individual states to be much more powerful than they are, and much more in charge of their own fate. This is why decisions such as Roe are so terrible from a constitutional perspective: The Supreme Court took a matter that should've been left to the individual states and decided it for the whole country. And there have been lots of instances like this over the last 200 years, giving more and more power to the feds and less and less to the states.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

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ó C.S. Lewis

Re: Trump's America
« Reply #83 on: October 02, 2020, 02:10:56 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Agreed. This is a big problem.

There is a disconnect between the role of government and some people's desires. It doesn't change the fact that it's as clear as day as to what the roles are.


I heard a lot of people saying how it was great how China handled COVID so fast... well what you're missing there is that they can do that because you're giving up a significant amount of your personal freedoms to accomplish that through their quasi dictatorship.

If every single city and state shut down at the exact same time, it would have significantly stopped COVID. It's just not realistic in our form of government at all... and Trump is the scapegoat for that, unfortunately.

No man, this isn't actually the issue. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but the federal government is for better or worse IMMENSELY powerful. And its situations exactly like this where that power can best be used for the good of people. It wasn't.  THAT'S THE FAILURE HERE. The leader of the free world failed to lead. He failed to even follow.

People are rightfully p---ed because they DO UNDERSTAND the role of the federal government, and it failed them here.

I urge you to read through the entire constitution. It's 96 pages.

Ahh the siren song of every person who has every lost lost an argument about politics.

I accept your surrender sir.

What is the role of the US federal government?

Very subjective, isn't it?

I wouldn't say so. If we go by the Constitution, which is what we should be going by, the federal government's powers are supposed to be pretty limited; in fact, I think it's safe to say that the Founders intended for individual states to be much more powerful than they are, and much more in charge of their own fate. This is why decisions such as Roe are so terrible from a constitutional perspective: The Supreme Court took a matter that should've been left to the individual states and decided it for the whole country. And there have been lots of instances like this over the last 200 years, giving more and more power to the feds and less and less to the states.

When you use words like "supposed to", "intended", & "should've", you're speaking to the very essence of subjectiveness.

And we're not going to go down the path of Roe on here.


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Re: Trump's America
« Reply #84 on: October 02, 2020, 02:12:24 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Agreed. This is a big problem.

There is a disconnect between the role of government and some people's desires. It doesn't change the fact that it's as clear as day as to what the roles are.


I heard a lot of people saying how it was great how China handled COVID so fast... well what you're missing there is that they can do that because you're giving up a significant amount of your personal freedoms to accomplish that through their quasi dictatorship.

If every single city and state shut down at the exact same time, it would have significantly stopped COVID. It's just not realistic in our form of government at all... and Trump is the scapegoat for that, unfortunately.

No man, this isn't actually the issue. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but the federal government is for better or worse IMMENSELY powerful. And its situations exactly like this where that power can best be used for the good of people. It wasn't.  THAT'S THE FAILURE HERE. The leader of the free world failed to lead. He failed to even follow.

People are rightfully p---ed because they DO UNDERSTAND the role of the federal government, and it failed them here.

I urge you to read through the entire constitution. It's 96 pages.

Ahh the siren song of every person who has every lost lost an argument about politics.

I accept your surrender sir.

What is the role of the US federal government?

Very subjective, isn't it?

I wouldn't say so. If we go by the Constitution, which is what we should be going by, the federal government's powers are supposed to be pretty limited; in fact, I think it's safe to say that the Founders intended for individual states to be much more powerful than they are, and much more in charge of their own fate. This is why decisions such as Roe are so terrible from a constitutional perspective: The Supreme Court took a matter that should've been left to the individual states and decided it for the whole country. And there have been lots of instances like this over the last 200 years, giving more and more power to the feds and less and less to the states.

RR -- does it say in the Constitution that the bully pulpit isn't to be used to inspire, guide and lead?  That isn't about power to formally change things, but the power to use words to influence based on being the primary leader of the country.

Re: Trump's America
« Reply #85 on: October 02, 2020, 02:17:47 PM »

Offline gift

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Agreed. This is a big problem.

There is a disconnect between the role of government and some people's desires. It doesn't change the fact that it's as clear as day as to what the roles are.


I heard a lot of people saying how it was great how China handled COVID so fast... well what you're missing there is that they can do that because you're giving up a significant amount of your personal freedoms to accomplish that through their quasi dictatorship.

If every single city and state shut down at the exact same time, it would have significantly stopped COVID. It's just not realistic in our form of government at all... and Trump is the scapegoat for that, unfortunately.

No man, this isn't actually the issue. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but the federal government is for better or worse IMMENSELY powerful. And its situations exactly like this where that power can best be used for the good of people. It wasn't.  THAT'S THE FAILURE HERE. The leader of the free world failed to lead. He failed to even follow.

People are rightfully p---ed because they DO UNDERSTAND the role of the federal government, and it failed them here.

I urge you to read through the entire constitution. It's 96 pages.

Ahh the siren song of every person who has every lost lost an argument about politics.

I accept your surrender sir.

What is the role of the US federal government?

Very subjective, isn't it?

I wouldn't say so. If we go by the Constitution, which is what we should be going by, the federal government's powers are supposed to be pretty limited; in fact, I think it's safe to say that the Founders intended for individual states to be much more powerful than they are, and much more in charge of their own fate. This is why decisions such as Roe are so terrible from a constitutional perspective: The Supreme Court took a matter that should've been left to the individual states and decided it for the whole country. And there have been lots of instances like this over the last 200 years, giving more and more power to the feds and less and less to the states.

RR -- does it say in the Constitution that the bully pulpit isn't to be used to inspire, guide and lead?  That isn't about power to formally change things, but the power to use words to influence based on being the primary leader of the country.

Does the Constitution say that the President should be the primary leader of the country?

Re: Trump's America
« Reply #86 on: October 02, 2020, 02:17:48 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Agreed. This is a big problem.

There is a disconnect between the role of government and some people's desires. It doesn't change the fact that it's as clear as day as to what the roles are.


Yes, there does seem to be a large portion of the country that doesn't really understand what powers the constitution actually grants the federal government and which powers are reserved for the states. 

And I get there are a lot of people that would prefer to increase the power of the federal government. Personally, I think it best to decrease federal power and return more of it to the states.

This is true, because a) a lot of people have little to no idea what the Constitution actually says (which is how a lot of politicians prefer the case to be), and b) judging by the current level of federal power, a lot of people probably just assume that the feds are supposed to be that powerful.

And I agree with you that a decrease in federal power and an increase in state power would be a good thing.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

ó C.S. Lewis

Re: Trump's America
« Reply #87 on: October 02, 2020, 02:31:24 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Agreed. This is a big problem.

There is a disconnect between the role of government and some people's desires. It doesn't change the fact that it's as clear as day as to what the roles are.


I heard a lot of people saying how it was great how China handled COVID so fast... well what you're missing there is that they can do that because you're giving up a significant amount of your personal freedoms to accomplish that through their quasi dictatorship.

If every single city and state shut down at the exact same time, it would have significantly stopped COVID. It's just not realistic in our form of government at all... and Trump is the scapegoat for that, unfortunately.

No man, this isn't actually the issue. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but the federal government is for better or worse IMMENSELY powerful. And its situations exactly like this where that power can best be used for the good of people. It wasn't.  THAT'S THE FAILURE HERE. The leader of the free world failed to lead. He failed to even follow.

People are rightfully p---ed because they DO UNDERSTAND the role of the federal government, and it failed them here.

I urge you to read through the entire constitution. It's 96 pages.

This isn't about the Constitution or federal vs state power.

It is about an incompetent, morally bankrupt President downplaying a pandemic because he doesn't want the economy tanking in an election year.

Re: Trump's America
« Reply #88 on: October 02, 2020, 02:32:16 PM »

Offline Erik

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Agreed. This is a big problem.

There is a disconnect between the role of government and some people's desires. It doesn't change the fact that it's as clear as day as to what the roles are.


Yes, there does seem to be a large portion of the country that doesn't really understand what powers the constitution actually grants the federal government and which powers are reserved for the states. 

And I get there are a lot of people that would prefer to increase the power of the federal government. Personally, I think it best to decrease federal power and return more of it to the states.

This is true, because a) a lot of people have little to no idea what the Constitution actually says (which is how a lot of politicians prefer the case to be), and b) judging by the current level of federal power, a lot of people probably just assume that the feds are supposed to be that powerful.

And I agree with you that a decrease in federal power and an increase in state power would be a good thing.

Oh wow that point b is so good.

Youíre right. Our entire generation is used to Presidents overstepping their authority that when one doesnít do it, it makes him look absentee.

Iím going to try to take it a step further. I donít even think Trump calculates his lack of authority (because he talks a big game) but the guys behind the scenes are somehow convincing him. No joke, I thought he was going to send in the feds for those riots and he somehow correctly didnít.

Re: Trump's America
« Reply #89 on: October 02, 2020, 03:01:51 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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What is the role of the US federal government?

Very subjective, isn't it?

I wouldn't say so. If we go by the Constitution, which is what we should be going by, the federal government's powers are supposed to be pretty limited; in fact, I think it's safe to say that the Founders intended for individual states to be much more powerful than they are, and much more in charge of their own fate. This is why decisions such as Roe are so terrible from a constitutional perspective: The Supreme Court took a matter that should've been left to the individual states and decided it for the whole country. And there have been lots of instances like this over the last 200 years, giving more and more power to the feds and less and less to the states.

When you use words like "supposed to", "intended", & "should've", you're speaking to the very essence of subjectiveness.

And we're not going to go down the path of Roe on here.

I didn't bring up Roe to debate the content of the case, which I'm fully aware is against forum rules; I only brought it up as being a clear example of the federal government usurping constitutionally delegated state power. But there are plenty of other examples. Either way, the issue is the same: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." (Tenth Amendment) Does the Constitution give the federal government the power to decide issues of family and sexuality? No, it clearly does not. So those matters should be left to the states and the people.

And I disagree that those words I used are subjective. If a law says "The government shall not do X," but the government goes ahead and does X, then when I say the government isn't supposed to do X, that's not being subjective; that's stating reality. Or if I invent something and say "This invention is intended to do X," that is once again stating objective reality.

Quote from: Neurotic Guy
RR -- does it say in the Constitution that the bully pulpit isn't to be used to inspire, guide and lead?  That isn't about power to formally change things, but the power to use words to influence based on being the primary leader of the country.

I may be misunderstanding you, so correct me if I am, but you seem to be looking to the Constitution for a definition of what type of person or leader the president should be, and the Constitution doesn't say anything like that, because that's not what the Constitution isóother than the preamble, which is quite short, the Constitution is not an aspirational document, simply a framework for the federal government. I'm sure we all agree on the general type of person we want our presidents to beóhonest, ethical, inspirational, courageous, etc.óbut that has nothing to do with the Constitution, which, as far as the president is concerned, simply defines the president's powers and responsibilities and charges him/her to carry them out to the best of his/her ability.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

ó C.S. Lewis