Author Topic: Trump's America  (Read 11309 times)

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Re: Trump's America
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2020, 03:13:19 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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My comment is not debatable because it is based on facts, Trump has condemned white supremacy MANY times.  The proud boys are not a racist organization they are a right wing group that confronts violent/destructive left wing groups.

The idea that the Proud Boys are not a racist organization is pretty naive. They say one thing but the people they allow in and the actions they take are a far cry. Gavin Mcinnis left because he couldn't distance them from the far-right far enough to protect his butt.

Joe Biggs, a Proud Boys organizer, has a RWDS tattoo on his arm. Stands for 'Right Wing Death Squad'. They're totally anti-racist though.

I have heard that McGinnis distanced himself from them because he didn't like their tolerance for certain racist groups.

What about 'Right Wing Death Squad' equates to racism? Is that a racist group? I couldn't find anything solid online about that.

Worth noting if we're hand picking certain members as evidence that the Proud Boys chairman is Enrique Tarrio, of AfroCuban descent (not a white dude). I think the Proud Boys may be a lot of things and problematic. But I don't know that they are an overtly racist group on their own. I think they are the reaction to Antifa and should be subject to the same level of generalizations as their counterparts. I think neither group is solidly organized and so it's difficult to pin down who they are and what they stand for. I'm fine with both being condemned. But probably worth doing so within the same sentence.

I think they certainly have racist elements within in their group even if their ethos doesn't say anything.  Their Indiana leader, for example, was co-founder of American Guard.    I would have a hard time believing the "racism" went out the door for him when he joined Proud Boys.


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Re: Trump's America
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2020, 03:17:39 PM »

Offline gift

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White supremacy is the biggest threat in this country. the FBI says it's the biggest threat to our safety, and it's the source of a lot, if not most, of the violence at the protests

Is that why the democrats raised money for the bail of arrested, violent protestors? They want white supremacists back on the streets asap?

Re: Trump's America
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2020, 03:27:58 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Trump has condemned white supremacy MANY times, including during the debates prior to him winning the nomination when Chris Wallace was the moderator as well as following Charlottesville.  The left wing media is driving a narrative that holds zero basis in fact and is easily proved false.

Quote
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing.

CHRIS WALLACE: So what are you...

TRUMP: If you look...

WALLACE: What are you saying...

TRUMP: I'm willing to do anything - I want to see peace.

WALLACE: Well, then do it, sir.

JOE BIDEN: Say it. Do it. Say it.

TRUMP: Do you want to call them - what do you want to call them? Give me a name. Give me a name. Go ahead...

WALLACE: White supremacists and right-wing militia.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Who would you like me to condemn?

BIDEN: The Proud Boys.

TRUMP: Who?

BIDEN: The Proud Boys.

TRUMP: The Proud Boys, stand back, and stand by. But I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what - somebody's got to do something about antifa and the left because this is not a right-wing problem.

You're wrong.

He has explicitly condemned white supremacists though. And during the debate he said something along the lines of "sure, sure" when asked by Wallace. I hate being in this position of seemingly defending Trump but he has technically done what has been asked of him many times (though maybe not every time and maybe without communicating some level of sincerity). At some point the question to him does become like "when did you stop beating your wife?", no?

No. Donald Trump as president has repeatedly emboldened right wing hate groups to believe they have if not his support, at least his tolerance. That is what THEY believe. They believe it because of what he says, and how he says it. If his quiet mutterings and teeter-totter denouncements aren't doing the job, isn't it his freakin job to make sure the message takes? Isn't it his job to make sure that hate-based militias have no safe place in America? Isn't that his lane?

If you want to say Trump's stance on right wing hate groups and far right militias is consistent and he denounces them, look at how he talks about antifa, a significantly less dangerous, poorly armed, and less organized group. Look at how he talks about peaceful protests, let alone ones that involve violence.

'If they start lootin, we start shootin' for the left.

Quiet twitter comments for the right.

Let's not pretend he's done anything but embolden violent groups on the right to act and to continue to act.

You started your post off with "no". Try starting it with "yes, but...".

You misunderstood. I was answering your question. It is not like 'when did you stop beating your wife', in the context that question is generally used, which is to say implicitly accusing someone of an action just by making them answer a question.

It's not like that. That's why I said, "no"

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Re: Trump's America
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2020, 03:33:33 PM »

Offline Linwood

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White supremacy is the biggest threat in this country. the FBI says it's the biggest threat to our safety, and it's the source of a lot, if not most, of the violence at the protests

Is that why the democrats raised money for the bail of arrested, violent protestors? They want white supremacists back on the streets asap?

From what i understand, the vast majority of those arrested have been linked to white supremacy

Re: Trump's America
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2020, 03:50:35 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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White supremacy is the biggest threat in this country. the FBI says it's the biggest threat to our safety, and it's the source of a lot, if not most, of the violence at the protests

Is that why the democrats raised money for the bail of arrested, violent protestors? They want white supremacists back on the streets asap?

From what i understand, the vast majority of those arrested have been linked to white supremacy

I don't know about that, but it's pretty foolish to assume that the people bailed out by these bail funds are unilaterally violent. Sometimes especially in places with repeated clashes between police and protestors the people they manage to grab or even charge aren't the ones that have done much of anything wrong. This includes press as well.

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Re: Trump's America
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2020, 04:03:54 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Ok so by MY count and Gift's then that's THREE times he's denounced Racism - OR perhaps The White House prepared a statement for him to READ from.

I'll try to give Pres. Trump the benefit of the doubt here but fear I'm running in Quick Sand...

Ok EVEN WITH these denouncements he JUST RECENTLY got into with Congresswoman Omar - stirring up contention ONCE AGAIN with a strong Black Woman of Politics.

He is CONSTANTLY at it with not only HER but her three "Squad" teammates. They are ALL proven Women of Congress who DO LOVE THIS COUNTRY but are NOT afraid to criticize her.

He didn't speak to George Floyd's brother for a LONG period of time - until he visited the White House and THEN sought a Photo Op.

He is CONSTANTLY at war with "The Left" - where MANY people of color/Blacks - reside.....some of us MODERATE enough to perhaps listen to him but NOT TRUST HIM, like myself.

He denigrates CNN and much of the media that doesn't pander to him and polish his shoes.....

I mean - I don't trust Pres. Trump. Even with these supposed denunciations he is STILL struggling internally with Racism, I believe.

That is NOT a President I trust.
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Re: Trump's America
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2020, 05:44:30 PM »

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Wondering what people's response is to this:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/texas-governor-drop-off-locations-ballots/index.html

Texas, by Governor proclamation, is limiting drop off locations for ballots to one pre county.   As an example, heavily democratic and highly populated (Houston) Harris county will go from11 locations to 1.

Harris County covers over 1700 square miles.  Rhode Island is about 1200.

Can this be rationally viewed as anything other than trying to make it more difficult for citizens to vote? -- with the biggest impact in highly populated democratic urban areas.

Re: Trump's America
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2020, 06:11:36 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Wondering what people's response is to this:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/texas-governor-drop-off-locations-ballots/index.html

Texas, by Governor proclamation, is limiting drop off locations for ballots to one pre county.   As an example, heavily democratic and highly populated (Houston) Harris county will go from11 locations to 1.

Harris County covers over 1700 square miles.  Rhode Island is about 1200.

Can this be rationally viewed as anything other than trying to make it more difficult for citizens to vote? -- with the biggest impact in highly populated democratic urban areas.

Definitely seems rather underhanded. They can't seriously expect someone should have to drive 50+ miles just to drop off a ballot.

What I am wondering, though, is if it is possible for citizens to organize collection 'agents' to help those who can't get to the drop off locations?

Re: Trump's America
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2020, 06:12:45 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Wondering what people's response is to this:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/texas-governor-drop-off-locations-ballots/index.html

Texas, by Governor proclamation, is limiting drop off locations for ballots to one pre county.   As an example, heavily democratic and highly populated (Houston) Harris county will go from11 locations to 1.

Harris County covers over 1700 square miles.  Rhode Island is about 1200.

Can this be rationally viewed as anything other than trying to make it more difficult for citizens to vote? -- with the biggest impact in highly populated democratic urban areas.

Definitely seems rather underhanded. They can't seriously expect someone should have to drive 50+ miles just to drop off a ballot.

What I am wondering, though, is if it is possible for citizens to organize collection 'agents' to help those who can't get to the drop off locations?

They certainly should do something. 

It seems utterly ridiculous. 

The ability to vote should be made easier, not more difficult. 


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Re: Trump's America
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2020, 06:24:23 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Wondering what people's response is to this:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/texas-governor-drop-off-locations-ballots/index.html

Texas, by Governor proclamation, is limiting drop off locations for ballots to one pre county.   As an example, heavily democratic and highly populated (Houston) Harris county will go from11 locations to 1.

Harris County covers over 1700 square miles.  Rhode Island is about 1200.

Can this be rationally viewed as anything other than trying to make it more difficult for citizens to vote? -- with the biggest impact in highly populated democratic urban areas.

Definitely seems rather underhanded. They can't seriously expect someone should have to drive 50+ miles just to drop off a ballot.

What I am wondering, though, is if it is possible for citizens to organize collection 'agents' to help those who can't get to the drop off locations?

They certainly should do something. 

It seems utterly ridiculous. 

The ability to vote should be made easier, not more difficult.

Absolutely

Hindering the rights of citizens to vote is definitely something that should anger everyone, regardless of political affiliation.

Re: Trump's America
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2020, 06:29:27 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Wondering what people's response is to this:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/texas-governor-drop-off-locations-ballots/index.html

Texas, by Governor proclamation, is limiting drop off locations for ballots to one pre county.   As an example, heavily democratic and highly populated (Houston) Harris county will go from11 locations to 1.

Harris County covers over 1700 square miles.  Rhode Island is about 1200.

Can this be rationally viewed as anything other than trying to make it more difficult for citizens to vote? -- with the biggest impact in highly populated democratic urban areas.

Definitely seems rather underhanded. They can't seriously expect someone should have to drive 50+ miles just to drop off a ballot.

What I am wondering, though, is if it is possible for citizens to organize collection 'agents' to help those who can't get to the drop off locations?

Collection agents are illegal in a lot of places, because this just turns into ballot harvesting.

But, donít most places provide you with an envelope for your ballot that you can mail for free?  Thereís no requirement that you drop off your ballot.  In fact, Iím not sure if ballot drop boxes were even a thing before 2020.
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Re: Trump's America
« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2020, 06:42:49 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Wondering what people's response is to this:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/texas-governor-drop-off-locations-ballots/index.html

Texas, by Governor proclamation, is limiting drop off locations for ballots to one pre county.   As an example, heavily democratic and highly populated (Houston) Harris county will go from11 locations to 1.

Harris County covers over 1700 square miles.  Rhode Island is about 1200.

Can this be rationally viewed as anything other than trying to make it more difficult for citizens to vote? -- with the biggest impact in highly populated democratic urban areas.

Definitely seems rather underhanded. They can't seriously expect someone should have to drive 50+ miles just to drop off a ballot.

What I am wondering, though, is if it is possible for citizens to organize collection 'agents' to help those who can't get to the drop off locations?

Collection agents are illegal in a lot of places, because this just turns into ballot harvesting.

But, donít most places provide you with an envelope for your ballot that you can mail for free?  Thereís no requirement that you drop off your ballot.  In fact, Iím not sure if ballot drop boxes were even a thing before 2020.

No, but it can certainly offer piece of mind that your ballot will be counted especially when your alternative is relying on the USPS.


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Re: Trump's America
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2020, 06:47:10 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Wondering what people's response is to this:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/texas-governor-drop-off-locations-ballots/index.html

Texas, by Governor proclamation, is limiting drop off locations for ballots to one pre county.   As an example, heavily democratic and highly populated (Houston) Harris county will go from11 locations to 1.

Harris County covers over 1700 square miles.  Rhode Island is about 1200.

Can this be rationally viewed as anything other than trying to make it more difficult for citizens to vote? -- with the biggest impact in highly populated democratic urban areas.

Definitely seems rather underhanded. They can't seriously expect someone should have to drive 50+ miles just to drop off a ballot.

What I am wondering, though, is if it is possible for citizens to organize collection 'agents' to help those who can't get to the drop off locations?

Collection agents are illegal in a lot of places, because this just turns into ballot harvesting.

But, donít most places provide you with an envelope for your ballot that you can mail for free?  Thereís no requirement that you drop off your ballot.  In fact, Iím not sure if ballot drop boxes were even a thing before 2020.

No, but it can certainly offer piece of mind that your ballot will be counted especially when your alternative is relying on the USPS.

True.  I will be voting in person for that reason. But, where I am there or maybe a couple of dozen cases in the entire county, so I donít worry so much about the virus.
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Re: Trump's America
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2020, 07:18:05 PM »

Offline wiley

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Wondering what people's response is to this:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/texas-governor-drop-off-locations-ballots/index.html

Texas, by Governor proclamation, is limiting drop off locations for ballots to one pre county.   As an example, heavily democratic and highly populated (Houston) Harris county will go from11 locations to 1.

Harris County covers over 1700 square miles.  Rhode Island is about 1200.

Can this be rationally viewed as anything other than trying to make it more difficult for citizens to vote? -- with the biggest impact in highly populated democratic urban areas.

They should form a caravan and make a film about it.  Embarrass the heck out of county officials..., or whomever is responsible.  Easier said than done...just terrible.

Re: Trump's America
« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2020, 09:28:54 PM »

Offline Erik

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Hi Chicago Celtic. How brave of you to actually bypass the not so hidden protective clause of this forum.

This was my post, for reference:

Quote from: Erik
And the radical left wing? These BLM rioters and Antifa?

That is the democratic partyís problem just like neo nazis are the rights problem.

Their message needs to be to completely disavow these people, not ďhey itís not nice to go rioting... youíre better than that.Ē No they arenít.

Why isnít the media asking Biden questions tough questions?
Why are the handlers allowed to let him answer questions off teleprompters ?
Why do his handlers get to rush him away from the press ?

This guy is close to being president and we donít know who is writing this stuff or who will actually be president. Is Symone sanders going to be our next president or what ?

Biden stumbling through basic questions while handlers rush him away:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TKSi5gOs3wk

Some peaceful BLM protests:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BBqBEIeNbbc

This is Bidenís America and he needs to own it^

There is a good portion of this country that would never vote for Biden if this isnít cleaned up. Harris said these protests will not stop. You guys liking this ?

You then changed it to "Trump's America" but failed to address any of the actual points and misunderstood what "Someone's America" means.

When I say Biden's America, I mean that is what you will be living with when he is president: BLM Riots, Antifa, and a media that does not hold the president accountable. His policy towards it is "Please don't riot, you're better than this." NO THEY AREN'T.

Points I'd like you to address (as brought up in this thread and somewhat in your post):
1) When was the last time you condemned white supremacy? Do you do it.. every single day? Do you get in front of your friends and coworkers and tell people that white supremacy is evil every day? Probably not. You know why? Because it's ridiculous. The mere REQUEST to have someone denounce it is an absolute insult -- as if they are a racist and must somehow prove they aren't by reciting those words (kind of like saying Black Lives Matter somehow makes you not a racist). Despite all of that, he still did it:
. Of course, this still isn't enough because people who already believe him to be a racist will just say "Well he HAD to say that." THAT'S THE POINT. Why even ask him to say it? Did you think he was going to say "I love white supremacists?" I mean this entire left narrative's point is just absolute nonsense.

2) To the point of my post: Do you condemn BLM Rioters, Antifa, and every single person in that video that I posted? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBqBEIeNbbc
Are these bad people?

3) Why isn't the media holding Biden accountable to answer basic questions? Why do his handlers get to run him off while the President has to answer "reporters" trying to "ask questions" with the full intention of trying to make him look incompetent?

Here is my list of "Trump Style" questions to Biden that the media will never dare to ask him now that he's the nominee (they asked him this plenty when he was up against Bernie -- surprise, surprise):
1) Why did you introduce a crime bill that has damaged an entire generation of African American families?
2) You've voted to tax Social Security income twice while in the Senate. How can seniors trust that you won't approve any legislation aimed at harming Social Security income?
3) Why should Americans trust you on the economy and jobs when you voted for NAFTA and recently admitted that it was a mistake and that Trump's plan is better?
4) Why should Americans trust your foreign policy when you voted for the war in Iraq?
5) Why are you using teleprompters to answer questions from the American public? Who is typing the answers and is our actual presidential candidate?



Now, to address your points:
Quote
President Trump only makes matters worse. He is incapable of bringing people together and he just cannot seem to help but make matters worse. His campaign depends on fear and distrust. Fear of immigrants, fear of the evil Socialist democrats, distrust of our own government, fear and distrust of the fake main stream media etc, etcÖ . He has openly invited violence on a number of occasions. He continuously insults people. He has created a rage and hatred in followers and opponents alike.
1) Every single campaign depends on fear and distrust. He's going to take away your "X" is basically the bread and butter for every single politician -- ever.
2) Fear of Immigrants. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this, but yes he is against illegal immigration as we all should be. Explain to me how it is right at all that someone illegally enters our country and was granted immunity by Obama and sanctuary cities. For their kids, sure, maybe it's not their fault and I'd be a bit softer and think that it's probably right that they should stay. But for the people that are KNOWINGLY obstructing our laws,  every single one of them should be deported and go through the legal process.
3) Socialist Democrats are an actual thing. There is an entire wing of the democratic party that wants this country to be run as a socialist state. I do not personally believe that Joe Biden is a socialist, but do you really think that Biden would ever veto any large recurring government expansion? He'd be crucified. I personally do not want to take any chance that we expand any government programs... and there are a lot of non racist, non homophobic, non xenophobic people like me that simple do not believe that socialism works, at any level, based on 100 years of evidence and would rather vote for someone like Donald Trump than IN ANY DEGREE risk it.
4) Distrust of our government. There is a significant amount of evidence that the outgoing administration, at the very least, tried to make Trump's life as difficult as possible.
5) Fake main stream media.. are you kidding me? I don't think this warrants a response, but I'll give you one anyways. The media is CORPORATE RUN. It's there for ratings. It's a complete phony baloney. There is so much bias in the media that you are being lied to either directly or indirectly every single day. They choose which stories to run and which stories to not run. They publish stories from "anonymous sources" without any shred of evidence for days, months. I mean this is one aspect of distrust that I don't know how you CAN'T agree with him other than the fact that it's your side that is "winning" the narrative. If you were objective in any way, you'd see it.
6) Insulting people and generally being rude. Ehh... you've got me there. I don't really like it. It's not how I would run things.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 09:48:03 PM by Erik »