Author Topic: Ginsburg dies; Amy Coney Barrett confirmed  (Read 26082 times)

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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Dies; Supreme Court Vacancy
« Reply #60 on: September 18, 2020, 11:21:22 PM »

Offline Erik

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Murkowski and Collins have indicated they won’t vote to confirm anybody before inauguration.  That means there’s a very small margin of error here.

They probably lose Romney too... does that spell doom?

Yeah I can't see Romney voting to confirm whoever Trump nominates at this stage of the game.

Hopefully enough in the GOP realize that maintaining some semblance of fairness and keeping the country stable is far more important than gaining a false political win.

Because nobody will win if the USA sinks to third-world status.

A tad bit dramatic.

I don't think so. Turkey destabilized very quickly under a sneaky despot in Erdogan. We're seeing the same here. Protests and riots gave been the second-biggest story of the year, trailing only covid.  Already they are gathering outside the court.

Things can get much, much worse.

A sledgehammer to democracy?  The right wants less government, not more.  And for all the Hitler/Nazi talk, Trump has been criticized most for not taking enough action with COVID-19. 

I think conservatives are well aware of the left's anger.  What I don't think is clear is why the left is so angry.

Yep. Nailed it. It has always confused me about the correlation between Trump and Nazi Germany. I think the primary conflation of people is the association of "right" and "authoritarianism." Those are two completely different metrics.

If you look at a political spectrum, authoritarianism and libertarianism are the polar opposites and describe government involvement. Left vs Right is SUPPOSED to be an economic scale of Communism vs Capitalism.

If your argument is that Trump is a Nazi and is going to enact martial law to force everyone to bow to him, you'd have to make the argument that he wants a monumental amount of government involvement, which just doesn't match reality of his policies and actions.

Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Dies; Supreme Court Vacancy
« Reply #61 on: September 18, 2020, 11:29:24 PM »

Offline trickybilly

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Murkowski and Collins have indicated they won’t vote to confirm anybody before inauguration.  That means there’s a very small margin of error here.

They probably lose Romney too... does that spell doom?

Yeah I can't see Romney voting to confirm whoever Trump nominates at this stage of the game.

Hopefully enough in the GOP realize that maintaining some semblance of fairness and keeping the country stable is far more important than gaining a false political win.

Because nobody will win if the USA sinks to third-world status.

A tad bit dramatic.

I don't think so. Turkey destabilized very quickly under a sneaky despot in Erdogan. We're seeing the same here. Protests and riots gave been the second-biggest story of the year, trailing only covid.  Already they are gathering outside the court.

Things can get much, much worse.

A sledgehammer to democracy?  The right wants less government, not more.  And for all the Hitler/Nazi talk, Trump has been criticized most for not taking enough action with COVID-19. 

I think conservatives are well aware of the left's anger.  What I don't think is clear is why the left is so angry.

I think you are confusing "size" of Government, with taking undemocratic actions
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Dies; Supreme Court Vacancy
« Reply #62 on: September 18, 2020, 11:32:02 PM »

Online Ogaju

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If the GOP hypocritically pushes a nominee through after what they did to Merrick Garland there will be no peace. We will literally be on the brink of another civil war.

This is the absolute worst thing that could have happened to America right now. The GOP has a chance to extend an olive branch and show they still care about our democracy and the Constitution. I hope they make the right choice.

They will make the same choice that Democrats would make in the reverse situation.

No, I don't think there is any vague equivalenve between the parties at this point. Your party is deep in bed with Trump. Own it.

Liberals aren't going to lay down and take this. Either make it right or there will be a big problem. This isn't a game. People are at their limit.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.  If the Republican party was deep in bed with Trump, how would that make them any less despicable than the left?

My point is that the GOP - led by Trump and McConnell - have taken a sledgehammer to democracy, and the powder keg is ready to blow.

This is my experience down on the ground. Conservatives are not understanding how angry the left is about these last few years.

Political parties are like feuding parents. There is only so far you can gaslight and antagonize until it reaches a point of no return. The kids always lose when the parents cannot maintain civility. In this case the child is America's Future.
The left is incompetent.  What are they going to do stamp their feet and say it is not fair?

I mean RGB should’ve retired around the end of Obama’s term so he can find a replacement. It’s sad that she’s gone but this was a failure on her and the Democrats.

Yeah, because that worked so well in the case of Scalia. If by the end of Obama's term, you mean 2013, then sure; but Obama had 11 months left before his term ended and he got totally railroaded.

lol   but to a lot of right wingers the beginning of Obama's presidency was the end of the Obama presidency.

Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Dies; Supreme Court Vacancy
« Reply #63 on: September 18, 2020, 11:35:47 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Murkowski and Collins have indicated they won’t vote to confirm anybody before inauguration.  That means there’s a very small margin of error here.

They probably lose Romney too... does that spell doom?

Yeah I can't see Romney voting to confirm whoever Trump nominates at this stage of the game.

Hopefully enough in the GOP realize that maintaining some semblance of fairness and keeping the country stable is far more important than gaining a false political win.

Because nobody will win if the USA sinks to third-world status.

A tad bit dramatic.

I don't think so. Turkey destabilized very quickly under a sneaky despot in Erdogan. We're seeing the same here. Protests and riots gave been the second-biggest story of the year, trailing only covid.  Already they are gathering outside the court.

Things can get much, much worse.

A sledgehammer to democracy?  The right wants less government, not more.  And for all the Hitler/Nazi talk, Trump has been criticized most for not taking enough action with COVID-19. 

I think conservatives are well aware of the left's anger.  What I don't think is clear is why the left is so angry.

I think you are confusing "size" of Government, with taking undemocratic actions

Not sure what you're referring to, but several Democratic governors are facing lawsuits for their unconstitutional lockdowns during COVID.  Trump sat back and watched...

Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Dies; Supreme Court Vacancy
« Reply #64 on: September 18, 2020, 11:36:43 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Couldn't McConnell have waited a day or two before making any statements about replacing RBG? Just give a day or two to reflect on her life and accomplishments out of respect for the person. Talk about replacing her on Monday.

Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Dies; Supreme Court Vacancy
« Reply #65 on: September 18, 2020, 11:39:58 PM »

Offline Erik

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I saw this post on reddit a while back:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompass/comments/gqap1g/i_did_the_political_compass_test_as_trump_biden/

I've done something similar and agree with his red dot on Trump. For reference, in case it isn't obvious, Hitler would be all the way at the top, probably a bit more to the left.


Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Dies; Supreme Court Vacancy
« Reply #66 on: September 18, 2020, 11:47:38 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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I saw this post on reddit a while back:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompass/comments/gqap1g/i_did_the_political_compass_test_as_trump_biden/

I've done something similar and agree with his red dot on Trump. For reference, in case it isn't obvious, Hitler would be all the way at the top, probably a bit more to the left.
I'd agree that he is not far right but Trump is way higher on the authoritarian scale than the supposed red "actual" dot indicates. 

Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Dies; Supreme Court Vacancy
« Reply #67 on: September 18, 2020, 11:57:27 PM »

Offline Erik

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I saw this post on reddit a while back:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompass/comments/gqap1g/i_did_the_political_compass_test_as_trump_biden/

I've done something similar and agree with his red dot on Trump. For reference, in case it isn't obvious, Hitler would be all the way at the top, probably a bit more to the left.
I'd agree that he is not far right but Trump is way higher on the authoritarian scale than the supposed red "actual" dot indicates.

Based on what evidence?

If Trump were to be way higher on the authoritarianism scale, he wouldn't be waiting for Governors and Mayors to ask for his help to break up the "peaceful protestors."
He also wouldn't be "calling on" States to reopen schools. He'd take his military into the state and force them to do it.

I believe that your definition of authoritarian might be a bit exaggerated. It's actually pretty [dang] difficult to be an authoritarian in America. That's the entire point of the Constitution and checks and balances.

Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Dies; Supreme Court Vacancy
« Reply #68 on: September 19, 2020, 12:08:05 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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I saw this post on reddit a while back:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompass/comments/gqap1g/i_did_the_political_compass_test_as_trump_biden/

I've done something similar and agree with his red dot on Trump. For reference, in case it isn't obvious, Hitler would be all the way at the top, probably a bit more to the left.
I'd agree that he is not far right but Trump is way higher on the authoritarian scale than the supposed red "actual" dot indicates.

Based on what evidence?

If Trump were to be way higher on the authoritarianism scale, he wouldn't be waiting for Governors and Mayors to ask for his help to break up the "peaceful protestors."
He also wouldn't be "calling on" States to reopen schools. He'd take his military into the state and force them to do it.

I believe that your definition of authoritarian might be a bit exaggerated.
Our system limits how authoritarian a President can be.  A President can't deploy troops domestically except in very limited, extreme circumstances.  If he had the power to do so, I have no doubt Trump would do so. 

Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Dies; Supreme Court Vacancy
« Reply #69 on: September 19, 2020, 12:09:24 AM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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Couldn't McConnell have waited a day or two before making any statements about replacing RBG? Just give a day or two to reflect on her life and accomplishments out of respect for the person. Talk about replacing her on Monday.

Meanwhile a few hours after her passing, Biden decided not to wait and be classy as well. Both sides clearly only care about power.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/19/ruth-bader-ginsburg-joe-biden-says-supreme-court-successor-must/amp/

Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Dies; Supreme Court Vacancy
« Reply #70 on: September 19, 2020, 12:18:35 AM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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A serious question for our lawyer members: I have seen posters discussing "good" Supreme Court picks...are there any current SC justices that you think are bad justices? If so who and why?
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Dies; Supreme Court Vacancy
« Reply #71 on: September 19, 2020, 12:26:05 AM »

Offline Erik

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I saw this post on reddit a while back:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompass/comments/gqap1g/i_did_the_political_compass_test_as_trump_biden/

I've done something similar and agree with his red dot on Trump. For reference, in case it isn't obvious, Hitler would be all the way at the top, probably a bit more to the left.
I'd agree that he is not far right but Trump is way higher on the authoritarian scale than the supposed red "actual" dot indicates.

Based on what evidence?

If Trump were to be way higher on the authoritarianism scale, he wouldn't be waiting for Governors and Mayors to ask for his help to break up the "peaceful protestors."
He also wouldn't be "calling on" States to reopen schools. He'd take his military into the state and force them to do it.

I believe that your definition of authoritarian might be a bit exaggerated.
Our system limits how authoritarian a President can be.  A President can't deploy troops domestically except in very limited, extreme circumstances.  If he had the power to do so, I have no doubt Trump would do so.

There have been quite a few instances in American History that an executive has declared martial law over riots. If he ever had an opportunity to "test his power," this was it, and he didn't try it.

Again, I think you're just projecting onto him what you want him to be.

Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Dies; Supreme Court Vacancy
« Reply #72 on: September 19, 2020, 12:33:12 AM »

Online Roy H.

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A serious question for our lawyer members: I have seen posters discussing "good" Supreme Court picks...are there any current SC justices that you think are bad justices? If so who and why?

Bad, in terms of qualifications?  Not really.  They’re all very talented people.  The ones that might not be the intellectual heavyweights of their peers are Thomas, Kagan and Sotomayor. 

Bad in terms of how they approach the law?  Sure.  I think too often “culture war” cases are decided by ideology, rather than by the law and the Constitution.

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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Dies; Supreme Court Vacancy
« Reply #73 on: September 19, 2020, 12:40:45 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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A serious question for our lawyer members: I have seen posters discussing "good" Supreme Court picks...are there any current SC justices that you think are bad justices? If so who and why?

Bad, in terms of qualifications?  Not really.  They’re all very talented people.  The ones that might not be the intellectual heavyweights of their peers are Thomas, Kagan and Sotomayor. 

Bad in terms of how they approach the law?  Sure.  I think too often “culture war” cases are decided by ideology, rather than by the law and the Constitution.

Someone may have asked earlier, but what's the likelihood of a non-judge (e.g. Senator) getting a bid?

Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Dies; Supreme Court Vacancy
« Reply #74 on: September 19, 2020, 12:44:31 AM »

Online Roy H.

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A serious question for our lawyer members: I have seen posters discussing "good" Supreme Court picks...are there any current SC justices that you think are bad justices? If so who and why?

Bad, in terms of qualifications?  Not really.  They’re all very talented people.  The ones that might not be the intellectual heavyweights of their peers are Thomas, Kagan and Sotomayor. 

Bad in terms of how they approach the law?  Sure.  I think too often “culture war” cases are decided by ideology, rather than by the law and the Constitution.

Someone may have asked earlier, but what's the likelihood of a non-judge (e.g. Senator) getting a bid?

The only way that happens is if, for whatever reason, it’s the only way to get a Justice confirmed, in my opinion.  That’s unlikely.

More likely than a Senator is a practicing lawyer who isn’t a judge, like recent nominees Kagan and Harriet Myers.

I really think it will be Amy Coney Barrett, who was top three last time.
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