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My one gripe with Brad Stevens...
« on: September 17, 2020, 06:54:09 AM »

Offline cman88

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For all the talk of being a basketball mind it baffles me that in the last seconds of a game after a time out several times this playoffs there are no designed plays to get a good shot off.

its always give the ball to tatum/kemba...let them dribble down the clock and jack up a 3 point shot or try and go to the hoop at a good defender...all while everyone is standing around doing nothing..That is not a high percentage shot. Maybe if we have a designed play we win some of these last second shot type games, get some movement so there are 2 other options..

Its the one pet peeve of mine

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Re: My one gripe with Brad Stevens...
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2020, 07:13:20 AM »

Offline celts55

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Only one gripe?

I hate that he waits way too long before calling a timeout when the other team is on a run.
I hate he uses Semi in the first half and Grant Williams in the second. If you trust Williams at the end of the game, why no run in the first half?
I hate when he subs out a guy when he's obviously hot, just because it's his turn. It's the playoffs. Ride the hot hand.
I hate that they consistently can't figure out how to close out a game. I keep thinking they're young and will get better at it, but they don't. It's not just the last play, it's the last 5-6 minutes. Dribble, dribble, dribble, oh no there's only 4 seconds on the shot clock. Better chuck up a stupid shot.
I hate that he has Brown standing in the corner for long periods of time, seemed like the whole 4 quarter, while Tatum or Walker are pounding the ball.
I hate that he hasn't stopped Smart from trying to take over the offense and killing the momentum of the game, see mid first quarter of last game.
Other than that, he seems like a pretty nice guy. I'd let him date my daughter.   
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Re: My one gripe with Brad Stevens...
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2020, 07:14:11 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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I’m with you on those isos. Too many of them. Every now and then he’s drawn up a great play after a time out. There was a pass to JB for an alley-oop dunk in the Toronto series; Brown didn’t convert but he drew a foul. A lot of the time tho we get iso ball.
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Re: My one gripe with Brad Stevens...
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2020, 08:50:18 AM »

Offline No Nickname

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I don’t know why he didn’t start playing offense/defense substitutions with Kemba and Wanamaker earlier.

Walker was clearly struggling so it wasn’t like we’d lose a lot offensively (if Brad happened to remain in the game for a few offensive possessions).  And Kemba was getting killed on defense.

The positives of Wanamaker’s defense outweighed the crappy offense and defense of Walker in my mind.

Again I’m not saying bench Kemba those last four minutes. But play the offense/defense substitution game so that out of 10 possessions Kemba might be in for seven of the offensive ones, and Wanamaker in for seven of the defensive ones (an estimate). Of course it depends on how many dead balls occur so you can make a substitution, but I would have done that with the way Kemba was playing.
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Re: My one gripe with Brad Stevens...
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2020, 08:54:54 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Quote from: celts55 on September 17, 2020, 07:13:20 AM
Only one gripe?

I hate that he waits way too long before calling a timeout when the other team is on a run.
I hate he uses Semi in the first half and Grant Williams in the second. If you trust Williams at the end of the game, why no run in the first half?
I hate when he subs out a guy when he's obviously hot, just because it's his turn. It's the playoffs. Ride the hot hand.
I hate that they consistently can't figure out how to close out a game. I keep thinking they're young and will get better at it, but they don't. It's not just the last play, it's the last 5-6 minutes. Dribble, dribble, dribble, oh no there's only 4 seconds on the shot clock. Better chuck up a stupid shot.
I hate that he has Brown standing in the corner for long periods of time, seemed like the whole 4 quarter, while Tatum or Walker are pounding the ball.
I hate that he hasn't stopped Smart from trying to take over the offense and killing the momentum of the game, see mid first quarter of last game.
Other than that, he seems like a pretty nice guy. I'd let him date my daughter.
I'd have to agree on all of those points except 1.  The last one.  He's a married man so he better keep his hands of your/mine/anyone's daughter. 
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Re: My one gripe with Brad Stevens...
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2020, 09:00:29 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Of all the countless criticisms I have about Brad's poor coaching giving the ball to his best player and putting the game on their shoulders is not one of them.  Every single team with an elite offensive centerpiece operates this way.  When you have an elite individual scorer you give them the ball and get out of the way when the game is on the line.  Look around the league, this is far more common than some of you want to accept, apparently.

Tatum could stand to be more of a facilitator and could stand to diversify his attack, but I want the ball in his hands every single time in clutch situations.
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Re: My one gripe with Brad Stevens...
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2020, 09:16:01 AM »

Offline johnnygreen

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One thing in particular has really driven me nuts lately. I wouldn’t say this is specific to Brad, but a coaching philosophy in general. In this era, where positions 1-5 can shoot the 3, why do players leave their man to play help defense? Or if the ball is on one side of the court, the weak side defender is closer to paint, and any swing of the ball, that same weak side defender can’t close out on an open 3 point attempt. This seems like an outdated defensive philosophy. Playing off your man and helping, seems more like a zone defense.
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Re: My one gripe with Brad Stevens...
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2020, 09:25:41 AM »

Offline mobilija

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Quote from: KGs Knee on September 17, 2020, 09:00:29 AM
Of all the countless criticisms I have about Brad's poor coaching giving the ball to his best player and putting the game on their shoulders is not one of them.  Every single team with an elite offensive centerpiece operates this way.  When you have an elite individual scorer you give them the ball and get out of the way when the game is on the line.  Look around the league, this is far more common than some of you want to accept, apparently.

Tatum could stand to be more of a facilitator and could stand to diversify his attack, but I want the ball in his hands every single time in clutch situations.

^this

Its the nba, it’s an iso league.

Dont remember people complaining about this strategy when IT was “King of the 4th”. It was every game, for the last half of every 4th qtr. clear out and give IT the ball.
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Re: My one gripe with Brad Stevens...
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2020, 09:30:38 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Quote from: KGs Knee on September 17, 2020, 09:00:29 AM
Of all the countless criticisms I have about Brad's poor coaching giving the ball to his best player and putting the game on their shoulders is not one of them.  Every single team with an elite offensive centerpiece operates this way.  When you have an elite individual scorer you give them the ball and get out of the way when the game is on the line.  Look around the league, this is far more common than some of you want to accept, apparently.

Tatum could stand to be more of a facilitator and could stand to diversify his attack, but I want the ball in his hands every single time in clutch situations.
Tatum's not quite on that level yet though. If he was I would have no issues with him having the ball in his hands every single time in crunch time barring us having another offensive vortex on the squad.
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Re: My one gripe with Brad Stevens...
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2020, 09:31:33 AM »

Offline iadera

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Closing out the game is only thing I resent him. But, it's a big issue. That's how we lost vs Raps game 3, Raps game 6, Heat game 1.
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Re: My one gripe with Brad Stevens...
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2020, 09:31:38 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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Quote from: cman88 on September 17, 2020, 06:54:09 AM
For all the talk of being a basketball mind it baffles me that in the last seconds of a game after a time out several times this playoffs there are no designed plays to get a good shot off.

its always give the ball to tatum/kemba...let them dribble down the clock and jack up a 3 point shot or try and go to the hoop at a good defender...all while everyone is standing around doing nothing..That is not a high percentage shot. Maybe if we have a designed play we win some of these last second shot type games, get some movement so there are 2 other options..

Its the one pet peeve of mine
Me too.  The end-of-regulation play is a perfect example.  Kemba pounds the ball for 22 seconds and heaves a 3?  They didn't need a 3.  That loss is on Brad Stevens.  He's a good coach, but not a great one that will bring a championship.  Too bad they gave him an extension.  His "not too high, not too low" attitude his rubbing off on the players who seem to lack a sense of urgency.
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Re: My one gripe with Brad Stevens...
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2020, 09:45:25 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Quote from: Somebody on September 17, 2020, 09:30:38 AM
Quote from: KGs Knee on September 17, 2020, 09:00:29 AM
Of all the countless criticisms I have about Brad's poor coaching giving the ball to his best player and putting the game on their shoulders is not one of them.  Every single team with an elite offensive centerpiece operates this way.  When you have an elite individual scorer you give them the ball and get out of the way when the game is on the line.  Look around the league, this is far more common than some of you want to accept, apparently.

Tatum could stand to be more of a facilitator and could stand to diversify his attack, but I want the ball in his hands every single time in clutch situations.
Tatum's not quite on that level yet though. If he was I would have no issues with him having the ball in his hands every single time in crunch time barring us having another offensive vortex on the squad.

Well, I think he clearly is close enough to that level that he's earned the right to be given the opportunity.  There's also no way he can learn from his mistakes if he's not allowed to make them.

I mean, if Kemba wasn't crapping the bed, I'd say he's earned some of those shots, given his his past successes in that role, but he's becoming Rick Ankiel / Chuck Knoblauch right before our eyes, apparently.
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Re: My one gripe with Brad Stevens...
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2020, 09:56:08 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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I think there are a lot of things that go into coaching, and overall Brad is a net Plus. Prep work, practice, schemes, in game choices, etc.

I agree that I do not like his late game strategies. At some point, consistent blowing of leads is a systems issue, especially when it seems to happen in the same way, and in a way that is distinctly different from how they play the first 43 minutes of the game. Suddenly, in the last 5 minutes, they pressure the ball and end up scrambling and allowing open 3s (the worst thing to give up to allow a comeback), and on offense, they let 1 or 2 players use 23 seconds of the clock with little motion then get forced into a bad shot because they haven't left themselves time to reset and find additional options as the defense breaks down.

It's odd for a relatively younger and creative coach. It seems outdated, like "no team can come back from 8 down with 4 minutes left", kind of a 1990s style concept. Very outdated with how much better teams are at shooting 3s.

If this were football, it seems like Brad would be the coach who would get the ball back leading by 4 against the Chiefs with 4 minutes left and would do 3 runs into the middle of the line and punt, only to lose by 10 when tyreke hill and travis kelce score 2 TDs withing 45 seconds of each other.
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Re: My one gripe with Brad Stevens...
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2020, 09:59:23 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Quote from: KGs Knee on September 17, 2020, 09:45:25 AM
Quote from: Somebody on September 17, 2020, 09:30:38 AM
Quote from: KGs Knee on September 17, 2020, 09:00:29 AM
Of all the countless criticisms I have about Brad's poor coaching giving the ball to his best player and putting the game on their shoulders is not one of them.  Every single team with an elite offensive centerpiece operates this way.  When you have an elite individual scorer you give them the ball and get out of the way when the game is on the line.  Look around the league, this is far more common than some of you want to accept, apparently.

Tatum could stand to be more of a facilitator and could stand to diversify his attack, but I want the ball in his hands every single time in clutch situations.
Tatum's not quite on that level yet though. If he was I would have no issues with him having the ball in his hands every single time in crunch time barring us having another offensive vortex on the squad.
Well, I think he clearly is close enough to that level that he's earned the right to be given the opportunity.  There's also no way he can learn from his mistakes if he's not allowed to make them.

I mean, if Kemba wasn't crapping the bed, I'd say he's earned some of those shots, given his his past successes in that role, but he's becoming Rick Ankiel / Chuck Knoblauch right before our eyes, apparently.
Not to me when we're trying to win a title right now, a more balanced attack where he and Kemba shares the bulk of the load with Jaylen/Smart/Hayward (if he comes back) chipping in as well would be what I'd aim for right now instead of him pounding the ball most of the time with Kemba being his sidekick and Smart/Jaylen not getting any touches. That way we can optimise our crunch time offence while still giving Tatum the touches he needs to develop.
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Re: My one gripe with Brad Stevens...
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2020, 10:03:38 AM »

Offline nyceltsfan

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My biggest gripes are 2 that I am not sure have been named here:

1. His use of challenges has been atrocious.  He saves them on obvious overturns early in the game just to have them for a big moment.  He never seems to win a challenge and the one in the last game cost them a very important timeout that caused Smart to have to throw a touchdown pass to Tatum just to get a shot up.  In these games that seem to be coming down to the wire, 2 or 3 point swings are very important regardless of the quarter or time left in the game.
2. Maybe I am being hypocritical, but he seems to be poor at in-game adjustments.  I was watching the first game and I knew, as did everyone watching, that Miami was going to blitz Kemba and push him out to midcourt, giving the Celtics no time to get into their offense and forcing them to take desperation shots.  It seems like Stevens could have recognized that and taken Kemba off the ball or found some other solution.  The worst part about that was that it happened in the second half as well!  I felt the same thing happened with the box and one in the Toronto series.  The Celtics have been poor in the third quarter (I guess with the exception of last game when they failed miserably in the 4th quarter) which is attributable to his inability to adjust mid-game.  I believe he is good with film and can adjust between games, but in-game adjustments are weak.
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