Author Topic: Draft trade up.?  (Read 2733 times)

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Re: Draft trade up.?
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2020, 04:09:59 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Maybe danny should target Memphis as a trade partner ??
They need draft picks now after missing out on the actual playoffs. We need to clean roster spots and preserve draft capital..
How about 26+30+Poirer + Carsten for future lottery protected pick? Works for both teams
If it's protected than you can't give up two first.
It all depends on how much utility Danny sees in the 26 and 30 pick... he usually sees value in making the selections and controlling young and unproven players contracts for several years.
This draft is different though. There is a lot of unknowns .. teams scouted players somewhat during the season but March madness didnít happen so maybe most teams evaluations are incomplete and their draft boards are fluid. Another problem will be meeting the players for workouts or their coaches.. this year this process will be much more cumbersome than years before.
Itís possible that good players fall or are rated lower by all teams because of all those reasons above..
On the other hand : Carsen plus Poirer use up $4M of cap space plus $5M of tax if you cut them you are already $9M in the red for next season. On top of that the 26 and 30 picks are guaranteed $9M this and next season combined .. add luxury tax and you are looking at $20M in the red for players that most likely stay in Maine and not contribute.
So approximately $30 mill in sunk costs vs future draft pick(s) that can be used in trades.
It's an overpay both players you want to move are young and low cost. Then the picks have untold potential as well. You will find teams willing to take them on if you want to move them for 2nd rounders. C's could move them for 2nds and still score future first for current first. You don't give up two first or any first to move 5 million. That is terrible basketball and business moves.
Well I assumed that the Lottery protected pick we are getting From Memphis will end up 15-16 in 2021 or 2022.
That is assuming a lot. Grizz would probably put any pick they trade top 20 protected for two to three years. They need to add upper level talent and picks at 26 and 30 wouldn't be worth dealing a pick in the late teens. In contrast the C's bench needs help and they don't have salaries to match teams so they have to rely on hitting on picks. Success increases the higher you draft.

Re: Draft trade up.?
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2020, 10:15:06 PM »

Offline mef730

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Maybe danny should target Memphis as a trade partner ??
They need draft picks now after missing out on the actual playoffs. We need to clean roster spots and preserve draft capital..
How about 26+30+Poirer + Carsten for future lottery protected pick? Works for both teams
If it's protected than you can't give up two first.

+1 for obscure rules knowledge.

Mike

Re: Draft trade up.?
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2020, 10:18:51 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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I would say close to zero chance anyone allows Danny to send a pool of low picks for a substantial move up..if he can get to 12, I would be shocked. 8 or 10 is not happening for the three..guaranteed.

Re: Draft trade up.?
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2020, 11:00:46 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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So I have a trade idea to trade it. As a diehard Celtics fan itís hard to not be accidentally bias, so did I do a good job with this? Be brutally honest.

https://tradenba.com/trades/yGhlx2KsK

No.

Re: Draft trade up.?
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2020, 11:12:04 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Cs need to take some of those picks and package them with Poirier or Kanter and get some shooting/vet role players on the bench. They have too many young guys/projects as it is. No need to add yet another unproven young player to this roster.

Re: Draft trade up.?
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2020, 11:14:44 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Cs need to take some of those picks and package them with Poirier or Kanter and get some shooting/vet role players on the bench. They have too many young guys/projects as it is. No need to add yet another unproven young player to this roster.


Why would any team want Kanter or Poirier in that type of trade? If we do try to move up you have to at the very least add someone like Langford or Rob Williams.

Re: Draft trade up.?
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2020, 12:54:48 AM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Cs need to take some of those picks and package them with Poirier or Kanter and get some shooting/vet role players on the bench. They have too many young guys/projects as it is. No need to add yet another unproven young player to this roster.


Why would any team want Kanter or Poirier in that type of trade? If we do try to move up you have to at the very least add someone like Langford or Rob Williams.
Iím not advocating for the Cs to move up. Iíd like them to consolidate players/picks for viable veteran role players. More than a theirs of the roster this season were rookies/second year players. Need to get some guys who know what they are and can execute for next season. Next year could be last season of Hayward and Tatum will be up for extension. Need to start capitalizing on those opportunities while you have the time, especially now that Tatum/Brown are making the jump.

Re: Draft trade up.?
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2020, 03:25:00 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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I'd love Vernon Carey to slide into second round or even take him with the Bucks pick, but I much prefer the idea of trading #14 and #24 for Vet help
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Draft trade up.?
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2020, 08:51:02 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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I would say close to zero chance anyone allows Danny to send a pool of low picks for a substantial move up..if he can get to 12, I would be shocked. 8 or 10 is not happening for the three..guaranteed.

My guy feeling is to agree with you. I was surprised that Hollinger speculated the Cs could get to #7.

Why I think he could be right is very specific to the talent in this class. ESPN's mock which with the combination of the DX guys and ESPNs intel is probably the most reliable currently has the Cs drafting Hayes at #14 and the Pistons drafting Haliburton at #7. If you polled people who have invested time into this draft I suspect you would have a 60/40 split in favor of Hayes over Halibuton. If you look at their projected #8 pick Okoro (to NYK) and compare him to #15 Cole Anthony I think you could get at least a 60/40 in favor of Okoro but a majority of Knicks fans would probably rather have Anthony. If you look back at the 2019 draft I do not think many experts or casual fans where upset that the Bulls took Coby White #7 and passed on Langford who was the #14 pick. My point is after Ball, Edwards, and Wiseman the talent level in this class is really flat into the early 20s. Positional value, team need, and teams risk aversion (willingness to swing on upside) are going to drive this draft order. A team like Detriot may very well look at their roster and decide they like the guy they can get at #14 the same as the guy they can get at #7 and the two extract players they can add at 26 + 30 gives them the opportunity to take an extra upside swing.

Using a different Mock because Espn having Hayes at #14 while exciting is hard for me to believe.

   per Tankathon's mock is Detroit better off with

#7 Isaac Okoro

or

#14 Patrick Williams
#26 Tyler Bey
#30 Vernon Carey

As if that's a value for the Cs, the #7 pick would land them one of

Avdija/Okoro/Vassell, all three are bigger then Langford and have potential as future Hayward replacements. All three are projected as high level defenders. Smart, Langford and one of those three should be a really impressive defensive bench unit.   

Hayes, its hard to think of a better future pairing with Tatum, Brown and Smart at PG. At 6'5 192lbs with a 6'8+" wingspan he has wing size and projects as a high level shooter. 

Okongwu, with Theis approaching a contract extension he would be an excellent center of the future who can also contribut now. At 6'9 like Theis he lacks ideal size but he moves extremely well laterally and is an explosive athlete. He will also brig the added benefit of a solid post game.   

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Re: Draft trade up.?
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2020, 12:42:18 PM »

Offline footey

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I would say close to zero chance anyone allows Danny to send a pool of low picks for a substantial move up..if he can get to 12, I would be shocked. 8 or 10 is not happening for the three..guaranteed.

My guy feeling is to agree with you. I was surprised that Hollinger speculated the Cs could get to #7.

Why I think he could be right is very specific to the talent in this class. ESPN's mock which with the combination of the DX guys and ESPNs intel is probably the most reliable currently has the Cs drafting Hayes at #14 and the Pistons drafting Haliburton at #7. If you polled people who have invested time into this draft I suspect you would have a 60/40 split in favor of Hayes over Halibuton. If you look at their projected #8 pick Okoro (to NYK) and compare him to #15 Cole Anthony I think you could get at least a 60/40 in favor of Okoro but a majority of Knicks fans would probably rather have Anthony. If you look back at the 2019 draft I do not think many experts or casual fans where upset that the Bulls took Coby White #7 and passed on Langford who was the #14 pick. My point is after Ball, Edwards, and Wiseman the talent level in this class is really flat into the early 20s. Positional value, team need, and teams risk aversion (willingness to swing on upside) are going to drive this draft order. A team like Detriot may very well look at their roster and decide they like the guy they can get at #14 the same as the guy they can get at #7 and the two extract players they can add at 26 + 30 gives them the opportunity to take an extra upside swing.

Using a different Mock because Espn having Hayes at #14 while exciting is hard for me to believe.

   per Tankathon's mock is Detroit better off with

#7 Isaac Okoro

or

#14 Patrick Williams
#26 Tyler Bey
#30 Vernon Carey

As if that's a value for the Cs, the #7 pick would land them one of

Avdija/Okoro/Vassell, all three are bigger then Langford and have potential as future Hayward replacements. All three are projected as high level defenders. Smart, Langford and one of those three should be a really impressive defensive bench unit.   

Hayes, its hard to think of a better future pairing with Tatum, Brown and Smart at PG. At 6'5 192lbs with a 6'8+" wingspan he has wing size and projects as a high level shooter. 

Okongwu, with Theis approaching a contract extension he would be an excellent center of the future who can also contribut now. At 6'9 like Theis he lacks ideal size but he moves extremely well laterally and is an explosive athlete. He will also brig the added benefit of a solid post game.

Seriously, if Patrick Williams is available at 14 (new mocks have him being taken sooner BTW), I'd just as well draft him rather than trade up to take Okoro, or even Vassell.  PW probably a better fit with our team, more of 3/4, while Vassell is more of a 2/3.  Okongwu is probably going top 5, so I don't see the point of even discussing a trade up for him. Pretty unrealistic, no?

Re: Draft trade up.?
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2020, 12:56:05 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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I don't know much about this draft but I am totally on board with packaging some/all of the picks to move up for someone DA loves. There just isn't room for 3-4 more rookies with guys like R. Williams, G. Williams, Edwards, Langford already projects looking for minutes.
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Re: Draft trade up.?
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2020, 12:59:11 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Cs need to take some of those picks and package them with Poirier or Kanter and get some shooting/vet role players on the bench. They have too many young guys/projects as it is. No need to add yet another unproven young player to this roster.


Why would any team want Kanter or Poirier in that type of trade? If we do try to move up you have to at the very least add someone like Langford or Rob Williams.
Iím not advocating for the Cs to move up. Iíd like them to consolidate players/picks for viable veteran role players. More than a theirs of the roster this season were rookies/second year players. Need to get some guys who know what they are and can execute for next season. Next year could be last season of Hayward and Tatum will be up for extension. Need to start capitalizing on those opportunities while you have the time, especially now that Tatum/Brown are making the jump.


That I agree with

Re: Draft trade up.?
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2020, 02:14:38 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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I would say close to zero chance anyone allows Danny to send a pool of low picks for a substantial move up..if he can get to 12, I would be shocked. 8 or 10 is not happening for the three..guaranteed.

My guy feeling is to agree with you. I was surprised that Hollinger speculated the Cs could get to #7.

Why I think he could be right is very specific to the talent in this class. ESPN's mock which with the combination of the DX guys and ESPNs intel is probably the most reliable currently has the Cs drafting Hayes at #14 and the Pistons drafting Haliburton at #7. If you polled people who have invested time into this draft I suspect you would have a 60/40 split in favor of Hayes over Halibuton. If you look at their projected #8 pick Okoro (to NYK) and compare him to #15 Cole Anthony I think you could get at least a 60/40 in favor of Okoro but a majority of Knicks fans would probably rather have Anthony. If you look back at the 2019 draft I do not think many experts or casual fans where upset that the Bulls took Coby White #7 and passed on Langford who was the #14 pick. My point is after Ball, Edwards, and Wiseman the talent level in this class is really flat into the early 20s. Positional value, team need, and teams risk aversion (willingness to swing on upside) are going to drive this draft order. A team like Detriot may very well look at their roster and decide they like the guy they can get at #14 the same as the guy they can get at #7 and the two extract players they can add at 26 + 30 gives them the opportunity to take an extra upside swing.

Using a different Mock because Espn having Hayes at #14 while exciting is hard for me to believe.

   per Tankathon's mock is Detroit better off with

#7 Isaac Okoro

or

#14 Patrick Williams
#26 Tyler Bey
#30 Vernon Carey

As if that's a value for the Cs, the #7 pick would land them one of

Avdija/Okoro/Vassell, all three are bigger then Langford and have potential as future Hayward replacements. All three are projected as high level defenders. Smart, Langford and one of those three should be a really impressive defensive bench unit.   

Hayes, its hard to think of a better future pairing with Tatum, Brown and Smart at PG. At 6'5 192lbs with a 6'8+" wingspan he has wing size and projects as a high level shooter. 

Okongwu, with Theis approaching a contract extension he would be an excellent center of the future who can also contribut now. At 6'9 like Theis he lacks ideal size but he moves extremely well laterally and is an explosive athlete. He will also brig the added benefit of a solid post game.

Seriously, if Patrick Williams is available at 14 (new mocks have him being taken sooner BTW), I'd just as well draft him rather than trade up to take Okoro, or even Vassell.  PW probably a better fit with our team, more of 3/4, while Vassell is more of a 2/3.  Okongwu is probably going top 5, so I don't see the point of even discussing a trade up for him. Pretty unrealistic, no?

I actually agree with you. If Williams is available at 14 then its not in the Celtics best interest to trade up for Okoro or Vassell. I however was just using Tankathons mock to show the flat value of the picks.

I expect the following guy to be gone before pick #14. In not particular order

1 Ball
2 Edwards
3 Wiseman
4 Okongwu
5 Avdija
6 Vassel
7 Hayes
8 Okoro
9 Toppin
10 P Williams

After those 10 the following could realistically have teams really like them and go any where outside of the top 4

Haliburton
Hampton
Saddiq Bey
Achiuwa
Pokusevski


The leveled talent pool is the reason why the Cs might have the chance to move up. The key is going to be locking on the guys who DA believes can with with this team long term and have the ceiling to become the best players in the class.

Maybe it works out that player DA targets is available at #10 or #12 and the trade is just #14+#26.

If ESPN is right and Hayes slips maybe the Suns are open to a #14 and #26 trade because they prefer to pair Booker with Maxey/ Anthony in that case the Cs could package the two picks land Hayes and still have the #30 to draft a big or use it to move Porier's contract.   



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Re: Draft trade up.?
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2020, 02:15:35 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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Cs need to take some of those picks and package them with Poirier or Kanter and get some shooting/vet role players on the bench. They have too many young guys/projects as it is. No need to add yet another unproven young player to this roster.


Why would any team want Kanter or Poirier in that type of trade? If we do try to move up you have to at the very least add someone like Langford or Rob Williams.
Iím not advocating for the Cs to move up. Iíd like them to consolidate players/picks for viable veteran role players. More than a theirs of the roster this season were rookies/second year players. Need to get some guys who know what they are and can execute for next season. Next year could be last season of Hayward and Tatum will be up for extension. Need to start capitalizing on those opportunities while you have the time, especially now that Tatum/Brown are making the jump.


That I agree with

really tough for Cs to bring veteran contracts onto their roster.
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Re: Draft trade up.?
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2020, 09:35:20 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Wonder if Okoro falls to 14. I looked at few fan consensus mocks and they have Okoro 10 to 16 range. If you are going off stats and measurements than one could argue he isn't a lottery talent. But you watch him play and defend and he looks like he can be an impact player right away. I know I mentioned him as a trade up target. Do people think that him being mostly know as a defender means he doesn't have star potential and can slip?