Author Topic: Rank the 'realistic' ceiling for our Celtics youngsters (25 or younger)  (Read 1219 times)

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Offline RodyTur10

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Question: how do you rank the 'realistic' ceilings for our Celtics young players?

Even though Smart, Ojeleye and Green are probably not at their ultimate ceiling, I don't think they really count as youngster anymore at the age of 26/27.

With 'realistic' I mean something that's reasonably imaginable to you, but doesn't have to be likely.

As an example: you might find it realistic to imagine the Celtics to win the championship this year, but that isn't likely to happen (even a highly optimistic better wouldn't give the Celtics more than 20% chance over all the other teams).

Players to rank in alphabetical order:

Carsen Edwards
Grant Williams
Jaylen Brown
Jayson Tatum
Robert Williams
Romeo Langford
Tacko Fall
Tremont Waters
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Re: Rank the 'realistic' ceiling for our Celtics youngsters (25 or younger)
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2020, 08:02:13 PM »

Online gouki88

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Carsen Edwards -> CJ Watson: small guard who doesn't offer too much besides a bit of a scoring punch. CJ was bigger & a better passer, but Edwards is more likely to catch fire.

Grant Williams -> PJ Tucker: undersized big who can shoot and pass, versatile on defence.

Jaylen Brown -> Jimmy Butler: couldn't think of anyone closer - Brown is a better shooter but considerably worse passer, but similar overall impact.

Jayson Tatum -> Kobe Bryant: MVP-level scoring talent. 21 year-old JT compares quite similarly to 21 year-old Kobe IMO. Better shooting, scoring and rebounding, while being a worse passer, and worse at generating FT's. Defence is probably a wash.

Robert Williams -> a shorter bouncier version of GSW Bogut: elite defence combined with good passing.

Romeo Langford -> Bobby Phills: I see his future being on the defensive end primarily, with a decent enough offensive game

Tacko -> ??? no idea

Tremont -> JJ Barea: this is quite a hopeful ceiling, but I like Tremont

Re: Rank the 'realistic' ceiling for our Celtics youngsters (25 or younger)
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2020, 08:06:00 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Tatum > Brown > Timelord > Langford > Grant > Waters > Edwards > Tacko

I actually believe that Langford and Grant will probably have a better career than Timelord, but if we're talking about their ceiling, then gimme Timelord over both of them.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2020, 08:15:30 PM by Jvalin »

Re: Rank the 'realistic' ceiling for our Celtics youngsters (25 or younger)
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2020, 08:32:07 PM »

Online gouki88

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Carsen Edwards -> CJ Watson: small guard who doesn't offer too much besides a bit of a scoring punch. CJ was bigger & a better passer, but Edwards is more likely to catch fire.

Grant Williams -> PJ Tucker: undersized big who can shoot and pass, versatile on defence.

Jaylen Brown -> Jimmy Butler: couldn't think of anyone closer - Brown is a better shooter but considerably worse passer, but similar overall impact.

Jayson Tatum -> Kobe Bryant: MVP-level scoring talent. 21 year-old JT compares quite similarly to 21 year-old Kobe IMO. Better shooting, scoring and rebounding, while being a worse passer, and worse at generating FT's. Defence is probably a wash.

Robert Williams -> a shorter bouncier version of GSW Bogut: elite defence combined with good passing.

Romeo Langford -> Bobby Phills: I see his future being on the defensive end primarily, with a decent enough offensive game

Tacko -> ??? no idea

Tremont -> JJ Barea: this is quite a hopeful ceiling, but I like Tremont
Oh, and to rank them in order of best to worst:

Tatum - Brown - Timelord - Romeo - Grant - Tremont - Carsen - Tacko

Re: Rank the 'realistic' ceiling for our Celtics youngsters (25 or younger)
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2020, 10:32:56 PM »

Online Atzar

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Tatum > Brown >> RWilliams > Langford > GWilliams >> Edwards > Fall > Waters

Tatum and Brown are franchise cornerstones, the guys who we build our future on.  Tatum's ceiling is a perennial all-star who could be a dark horse MVP candidate in his best seasons.  Brown lacks that MVP ceiling in my estimation, but he could still grab some all-star appearances of his own if he continues to improve. 

Timelord and Langford have solid fourth-or-fifth starter potential.  Pretty confident in Williams' ability to reach that ceiling, since the only things keeping him from that level right now are experience and health really.  I think Romeo has an outside shot of being more than this, but he's a long way away and a lot of things would have to break right for him in his development. 

Grant Williams could be a quality backup.  PJ Tucker type of player... strong, intelligent defender, and I think he'll develop that corner three as time goes on. 

Edwards has some potential as a microwave-type gunner off the bench, like an Eddie House.  Doesn't give you much if he isn't scoring.  Not especially high on him.

No idea what Tacko's ceiling is because there aren't really any comps.  My expectation is that he'll never be able to break into the regular rotation, but we'll see. Could be a guy who does well in certain matchups, and that does have value. 

I'm not as high on Waters as some here.  I see him as a Phil Pressey - undersized third string guard who can fill in occasionally, but not a rotation player.  Would love to be proven wrong.  He'll probably hang around as cost-effective filler for a year or two.

Re: Rank the 'realistic' ceiling for our Celtics youngsters (25 or younger)
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2020, 03:05:58 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Tatum >= Brown > Robert > Langford > Grant > Waters > Edwards > Fall

Not as high on Tatum as most people are on here - think he'll get MVP votes due to being the 1A on a very good team in the future, which will overstate his actual talent at that point (to me he'll be closer to Paul Pierce than Kawhi Leonard).

I'm the opposite regarding Brown - him adding things that he didn't have year after year (eg. shooting, ballhandling, high level finishing, post moves) makes me quite optimistic about his development. Player growth isn't linear, but if there was any Celtic who I'd be confident that he'll at least make incremental improvements to his game every year it would be Brown. Wouldn't guarantee that his ceiling will be a high level All-NBA player like Tatum but I think the possibility is there.

Obviously Robert's very raw, but I think he's got massive potential as a defensive anchor who's a monster finisher (his finishing is AD like with his large catch radius and incredible athleticism) and a passing hub with some floor spacing. With how elite defensive anchors can have All-NBA impact even in the modern game I think his potential is tantalising for us even though his likely ceiling is a tier below those defensive greats.

Nothing much to say about the others that hasn't already been talked about in posts by other posters in this thread.

« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 03:13:49 AM by Somebody »
Rockets PG: Westbrook, Rivers, Clemons SG: Harden, Gordon, McLemore
SF: House, Carroll, Caboclo PF: Covington, Green, Williams
C: Tucker, Hartenstein, Bender
Warriors PG: Curry, Jackson, Bowman SG: Thompson, Lee, Poole
SF: Wiggins, Okoro, Anderson PF: Green, Paschall, MKG
C: Looney, Chriss, Smiley

Re: Rank the 'realistic' ceiling for our Celtics youngsters (25 or younger)
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2020, 08:25:03 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Tier 1:  Star level
Tatum > Brown

Tier 2: Top bench to starter level
Rob Williams > Langford > G Williams

Tier 3:  End of bench/specialty role
Walter > Taco

Tier 4:  Unless he  makes his three pointers at an elite level out of league
Edwards

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Re: Rank the 'realistic' ceiling for our Celtics youngsters (25 or younger)
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2020, 12:05:39 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Players to rank in alphabetical order:

Carsen Edwards
Grant Williams
Jaylen Brown
Jayson Tatum
Robert Williams
Romeo Langford
Tacko Fall
Tremont Waters
What about you Rody? How would you rank them?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 01:02:00 PM by Jvalin »

Re: Rank the 'realistic' ceiling for our Celtics youngsters (25 or younger)
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2020, 12:27:43 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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These are ceilings; except for the very bottom guys, I see the persons's floor about 1 tier below.

Tier 1 (Star):  Tatum
Tier 2 (Borderline Star; 2 or less all star games):  Brown
Tier 3 (Quality Starter/Star Role Player):  R Williams, Langford, G Williams, Waters
Tier 4 (Fringe Rotation Guy):  Empty
Tier 5 (Not an NBA player): Edwards, Tacko

Re: Rank the 'realistic' ceiling for our Celtics youngsters (25 or younger)
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2020, 12:50:20 PM »

Offline libermaniac

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Tier 1:  Star level
Tatum > Brown

Tier 2: Top bench to starter level
Rob Williams > Langford > G Williams

Tier 3:  End of bench/specialty role
Walter > Taco

Tier 4:  Unless he  makes his three pointers at an elite level out of league
Edwards
I would agree with this 100% (except your misspelling of Waters).  TP

Re: Rank the 'realistic' ceiling for our Celtics youngsters (25 or younger)
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2020, 04:59:06 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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Tatum >= Brown > Robert > Langford > Grant > Waters > Edwards > Fall

Not as high on Tatum as most people are on here - think he'll get MVP votes due to being the 1A on a very good team in the future, which will overstate his actual talent at that point (to me he'll be closer to Paul Pierce than Kawhi Leonard).

I'm the opposite regarding Brown - him adding things that he didn't have year after year (eg. shooting, ballhandling, high level finishing, post moves) makes me quite optimistic about his development. Player growth isn't linear, but if there was any Celtic who I'd be confident that he'll at least make incremental improvements to his game every year it would be Brown. Wouldn't guarantee that his ceiling will be a high level All-NBA player like Tatum but I think the possibility is there.

Obviously Robert's very raw, but I think he's got massive potential as a defensive anchor who's a monster finisher (his finishing is AD like with his large catch radius and incredible athleticism) and a passing hub with some floor spacing. With how elite defensive anchors can have All-NBA impact even in the modern game I think his potential is tantalising for us even though his likely ceiling is a tier below those defensive greats.

Nothing much to say about the others that hasn't already been talked about in posts by other posters in this thread.
All the interesting conversation is about the last 4-5 guys.  I am close to Somebody's ranking, but (1) I'm a bit higher on Edwards than Waters, and (2) I think there's a big drop-off from Romeo to Grant.  I don't see our two-way guys as legit NBA material.

Tatum >= Brown > Robert > Langford >> Grant > Edwards > Waters > Fall

Re: Rank the 'realistic' ceiling for our Celtics youngsters (25 or younger)
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2020, 07:15:03 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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Players to rank in alphabetical order:

Carsen Edwards
Grant Williams
Jaylen Brown
Jayson Tatum
Robert Williams
Romeo Langford
Tacko Fall
Tremont Waters
What about you Rody? How would you rank them?

I'm in line with most rankings,

Tatum (All NBA - not MVP) > Brown (All Star) >> Timelord (high level starter) >> Langford (low level starter/rotation player) > Grant (bench role player) > Waters (back-up PG) > Edwards (end of roster tanking team) > Fall (novelty act)

I'm a big believer in Timelord. But considering people generally have been very positive on Grant Williams I thought people would have them higher on their ranking than me, but most people don't seem to think he has starter potential either.
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