Author Topic: Congress Is Broken  (Read 9118 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2020, 01:54:48 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 43831
  • Tommy Points: -27021
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Quote
President Trump signed four executive orders Saturday aimed at delivering relief to Americans struggling with the economic fallout of the coronavirus while accusing Democrats of stonewalling greater aid efforts.


Trump announced a $400-per-week supplemental unemployment payment to out-of-work Americans -- short of the $600 weekly benefit that expired at the end of July. He unveiled an extension of student loan relief and protections from evictions for renters and homeowners.

Trump also signed a payroll tax holiday through the end of the year for Americans earning less than $100,000, while promising more relief if he wins a second term.

If you’re a Democrat politician, what do you do here?  Do you seek an injunction (no doubt through a surrogate)?  Do you litigate but let the order stay in place?  Do you just concede?
Seeking an injunction or litigating just doubles down on their own stupidity.  The Dems just need to accept that they were outplayed.

The divided governments with Trump and Obama vs. an unfriendly Congress have really frustrated me.  I majored in government, graduating college in 2000. Back then, it was widely agreed that divided government made for the most effective administrations, because it required compromise, which in turn was best for the American people.  Prime examples were Reagan and Clinton.

Somewhere along the way, that got jettisoned for absolute gridlock. Now we are seeing the natural consequence of that. Congress has abdicated its responsibilities, so the executive branch is stepping into the power vacuum.

Except its really not, these steps are more or less meaningless window dressing.

The eviction "moratorium" for example is toothless, its actually a suggestion to government agencies that they consider ways to lessen evictions.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/10/president-trumps-executive-order-does-not-extend-eviction-moratorium.html

The extension of unemployment benefits puts 25% of the benefits on states, many of which don't have the money at all which could prevent any disbursement of those funds.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/08/10/400-unemployment-extension-start-trump-signs-executive-order-in-lieu-coronavirus-stimulus-package/#6dc0559347c7

The payroll tax "cut" is actually a deferral, those funds are still owed at the end of the year. Its likely that as a result companies will be reluctant to actually pass that money onto their employees. And it only helps those who actually have jobs, not 30+ million jobless. And if all that is overcome its just going to end up in a social security cut down the line.

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/what-does-trumps-payroll-tax-deferral-mean-for-your-paycheck-not-much-experts-say-2020-08-10

No more money for schools, none for struggling state gov's. Basically these actions are pointless window dressing.

Lets be absolutely clear what happened here, this is not a "both sides" problem. Democrats had a bill for months, republicans dragged their feet because there is significant resistance in their own party against spending more money. And now here we are.

The Democrat Bill was a bloated $3 trillion wishlist of handouts.  It wasn’t a serious attempt at reaching a deal.

And, Trump’s executive order is better than what Congress has passed, so I’m not sure what the objection is.  Something is better than nothing.
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2020, 03:14:27 PM »

Offline keevsnick

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3991
  • Tommy Points: 412
Quote
President Trump signed four executive orders Saturday aimed at delivering relief to Americans struggling with the economic fallout of the coronavirus while accusing Democrats of stonewalling greater aid efforts.


Trump announced a $400-per-week supplemental unemployment payment to out-of-work Americans -- short of the $600 weekly benefit that expired at the end of July. He unveiled an extension of student loan relief and protections from evictions for renters and homeowners.

Trump also signed a payroll tax holiday through the end of the year for Americans earning less than $100,000, while promising more relief if he wins a second term.

If you’re a Democrat politician, what do you do here?  Do you seek an injunction (no doubt through a surrogate)?  Do you litigate but let the order stay in place?  Do you just concede?
Seeking an injunction or litigating just doubles down on their own stupidity.  The Dems just need to accept that they were outplayed.

The divided governments with Trump and Obama vs. an unfriendly Congress have really frustrated me.  I majored in government, graduating college in 2000. Back then, it was widely agreed that divided government made for the most effective administrations, because it required compromise, which in turn was best for the American people.  Prime examples were Reagan and Clinton.

Somewhere along the way, that got jettisoned for absolute gridlock. Now we are seeing the natural consequence of that. Congress has abdicated its responsibilities, so the executive branch is stepping into the power vacuum.

Except its really not, these steps are more or less meaningless window dressing.

The eviction "moratorium" for example is toothless, its actually a suggestion to government agencies that they consider ways to lessen evictions.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/10/president-trumps-executive-order-does-not-extend-eviction-moratorium.html

The extension of unemployment benefits puts 25% of the benefits on states, many of which don't have the money at all which could prevent any disbursement of those funds.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/08/10/400-unemployment-extension-start-trump-signs-executive-order-in-lieu-coronavirus-stimulus-package/#6dc0559347c7

The payroll tax "cut" is actually a deferral, those funds are still owed at the end of the year. Its likely that as a result companies will be reluctant to actually pass that money onto their employees. And it only helps those who actually have jobs, not 30+ million jobless. And if all that is overcome its just going to end up in a social security cut down the line.

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/what-does-trumps-payroll-tax-deferral-mean-for-your-paycheck-not-much-experts-say-2020-08-10

No more money for schools, none for struggling state gov's. Basically these actions are pointless window dressing.

Lets be absolutely clear what happened here, this is not a "both sides" problem. Democrats had a bill for months, republicans dragged their feet because there is significant resistance in their own party against spending more money. And now here we are.

The Democrat Bill was a bloated $3 trillion wishlist of handouts.  It wasn’t a serious attempt at reaching a deal.

And, Trump’s executive order is better than what Congress has passed, so I’m not sure what the objection is. Something is better than nothing.

Well putting aside the fact that I very much disagree with the characterization of the democrats bill.....

The objection is that 3 trillion dollars even if 50% of it is just literally lighting money on fire is better than a set of executive order that do literally nothing to actually help.

My main issue here is the blame is not evenly distributed across "congress." The title of the thread should be "Republican senators are terrible at their jobs." I maybe crazy here, but I tend to put more blame on the party that can't even agree amongst itself about what it wants.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 03:30:33 PM by keevsnick »

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2020, 03:42:07 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 43831
  • Tommy Points: -27021
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Quote
President Trump signed four executive orders Saturday aimed at delivering relief to Americans struggling with the economic fallout of the coronavirus while accusing Democrats of stonewalling greater aid efforts.


Trump announced a $400-per-week supplemental unemployment payment to out-of-work Americans -- short of the $600 weekly benefit that expired at the end of July. He unveiled an extension of student loan relief and protections from evictions for renters and homeowners.

Trump also signed a payroll tax holiday through the end of the year for Americans earning less than $100,000, while promising more relief if he wins a second term.

If you’re a Democrat politician, what do you do here?  Do you seek an injunction (no doubt through a surrogate)?  Do you litigate but let the order stay in place?  Do you just concede?
Seeking an injunction or litigating just doubles down on their own stupidity.  The Dems just need to accept that they were outplayed.

The divided governments with Trump and Obama vs. an unfriendly Congress have really frustrated me.  I majored in government, graduating college in 2000. Back then, it was widely agreed that divided government made for the most effective administrations, because it required compromise, which in turn was best for the American people.  Prime examples were Reagan and Clinton.

Somewhere along the way, that got jettisoned for absolute gridlock. Now we are seeing the natural consequence of that. Congress has abdicated its responsibilities, so the executive branch is stepping into the power vacuum.

Except its really not, these steps are more or less meaningless window dressing.

The eviction "moratorium" for example is toothless, its actually a suggestion to government agencies that they consider ways to lessen evictions.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/10/president-trumps-executive-order-does-not-extend-eviction-moratorium.html

The extension of unemployment benefits puts 25% of the benefits on states, many of which don't have the money at all which could prevent any disbursement of those funds.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/08/10/400-unemployment-extension-start-trump-signs-executive-order-in-lieu-coronavirus-stimulus-package/#6dc0559347c7

The payroll tax "cut" is actually a deferral, those funds are still owed at the end of the year. Its likely that as a result companies will be reluctant to actually pass that money onto their employees. And it only helps those who actually have jobs, not 30+ million jobless. And if all that is overcome its just going to end up in a social security cut down the line.

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/what-does-trumps-payroll-tax-deferral-mean-for-your-paycheck-not-much-experts-say-2020-08-10

No more money for schools, none for struggling state gov's. Basically these actions are pointless window dressing.

Lets be absolutely clear what happened here, this is not a "both sides" problem. Democrats had a bill for months, republicans dragged their feet because there is significant resistance in their own party against spending more money. And now here we are.

The Democrat Bill was a bloated $3 trillion wishlist of handouts.  It wasn’t a serious attempt at reaching a deal.

And, Trump’s executive order is better than what Congress has passed, so I’m not sure what the objection is. Something is better than nothing.

Well putting aside the fact that I very much disagree with the characterization of the democrats bill.....

The objection is that 3 trillion dollars even if 50% of it is just literally lighting money on fire is better than a set of executive order that do literally nothing to actually help.

My main issue here is the blame is not evenly distributed across "congress." The title of the thread should be "Republican senators are terrible at their jobs." I maybe crazy here, but I tend to put more blame on the party that can't even agree amongst itself about what it wants.

Spoken like a blind partisan.
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2020, 03:45:34 PM »

Offline keevsnick

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3991
  • Tommy Points: 412
Quote
President Trump signed four executive orders Saturday aimed at delivering relief to Americans struggling with the economic fallout of the coronavirus while accusing Democrats of stonewalling greater aid efforts.


Trump announced a $400-per-week supplemental unemployment payment to out-of-work Americans -- short of the $600 weekly benefit that expired at the end of July. He unveiled an extension of student loan relief and protections from evictions for renters and homeowners.

Trump also signed a payroll tax holiday through the end of the year for Americans earning less than $100,000, while promising more relief if he wins a second term.

If you’re a Democrat politician, what do you do here?  Do you seek an injunction (no doubt through a surrogate)?  Do you litigate but let the order stay in place?  Do you just concede?
Seeking an injunction or litigating just doubles down on their own stupidity.  The Dems just need to accept that they were outplayed.

The divided governments with Trump and Obama vs. an unfriendly Congress have really frustrated me.  I majored in government, graduating college in 2000. Back then, it was widely agreed that divided government made for the most effective administrations, because it required compromise, which in turn was best for the American people.  Prime examples were Reagan and Clinton.

Somewhere along the way, that got jettisoned for absolute gridlock. Now we are seeing the natural consequence of that. Congress has abdicated its responsibilities, so the executive branch is stepping into the power vacuum.

Except its really not, these steps are more or less meaningless window dressing.

The eviction "moratorium" for example is toothless, its actually a suggestion to government agencies that they consider ways to lessen evictions.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/10/president-trumps-executive-order-does-not-extend-eviction-moratorium.html

The extension of unemployment benefits puts 25% of the benefits on states, many of which don't have the money at all which could prevent any disbursement of those funds.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/08/10/400-unemployment-extension-start-trump-signs-executive-order-in-lieu-coronavirus-stimulus-package/#6dc0559347c7

The payroll tax "cut" is actually a deferral, those funds are still owed at the end of the year. Its likely that as a result companies will be reluctant to actually pass that money onto their employees. And it only helps those who actually have jobs, not 30+ million jobless. And if all that is overcome its just going to end up in a social security cut down the line.

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/what-does-trumps-payroll-tax-deferral-mean-for-your-paycheck-not-much-experts-say-2020-08-10

No more money for schools, none for struggling state gov's. Basically these actions are pointless window dressing.

Lets be absolutely clear what happened here, this is not a "both sides" problem. Democrats had a bill for months, republicans dragged their feet because there is significant resistance in their own party against spending more money. And now here we are.

The Democrat Bill was a bloated $3 trillion wishlist of handouts.  It wasn’t a serious attempt at reaching a deal.

And, Trump’s executive order is better than what Congress has passed, so I’m not sure what the objection is. Something is better than nothing.

Well putting aside the fact that I very much disagree with the characterization of the democrats bill.....

The objection is that 3 trillion dollars even if 50% of it is just literally lighting money on fire is better than a set of executive order that do literally nothing to actually help.

My main issue here is the blame is not evenly distributed across "congress." The title of the thread should be "Republican senators are terrible at their jobs." I maybe crazy here, but I tend to put more blame on the party that can't even agree amongst itself about what it wants.

Spoken like a blind partisan.

In what way?

Blaming a party for not having its act together when it quite obviously doesn't have its act together is arguably less partisan than the empty platitude of "well both sides...." Thats a thoughtless reflex more than an actual position informed by facts.

The moderate position is only just that, moderate. It isn't necessarily right. It can be, it often is, I dont think it is in this case.

I mean republicans argument is "We're worried about helping people TOO much. During a pandemic. That out party's leader horribly failed to contain. Because of the deficit that we already exploded. By giving a tax cut to the rich."
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 04:02:15 PM by keevsnick »

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2020, 04:59:15 PM »

Offline gift

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2963
  • Tommy Points: 233
Quote
President Trump signed four executive orders Saturday aimed at delivering relief to Americans struggling with the economic fallout of the coronavirus while accusing Democrats of stonewalling greater aid efforts.


Trump announced a $400-per-week supplemental unemployment payment to out-of-work Americans -- short of the $600 weekly benefit that expired at the end of July. He unveiled an extension of student loan relief and protections from evictions for renters and homeowners.

Trump also signed a payroll tax holiday through the end of the year for Americans earning less than $100,000, while promising more relief if he wins a second term.

If you’re a Democrat politician, what do you do here?  Do you seek an injunction (no doubt through a surrogate)?  Do you litigate but let the order stay in place?  Do you just concede?
Seeking an injunction or litigating just doubles down on their own stupidity.  The Dems just need to accept that they were outplayed.

The divided governments with Trump and Obama vs. an unfriendly Congress have really frustrated me.  I majored in government, graduating college in 2000. Back then, it was widely agreed that divided government made for the most effective administrations, because it required compromise, which in turn was best for the American people.  Prime examples were Reagan and Clinton.

Somewhere along the way, that got jettisoned for absolute gridlock. Now we are seeing the natural consequence of that. Congress has abdicated its responsibilities, so the executive branch is stepping into the power vacuum.

Except its really not, these steps are more or less meaningless window dressing.

The eviction "moratorium" for example is toothless, its actually a suggestion to government agencies that they consider ways to lessen evictions.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/10/president-trumps-executive-order-does-not-extend-eviction-moratorium.html

The extension of unemployment benefits puts 25% of the benefits on states, many of which don't have the money at all which could prevent any disbursement of those funds.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/08/10/400-unemployment-extension-start-trump-signs-executive-order-in-lieu-coronavirus-stimulus-package/#6dc0559347c7

The payroll tax "cut" is actually a deferral, those funds are still owed at the end of the year. Its likely that as a result companies will be reluctant to actually pass that money onto their employees. And it only helps those who actually have jobs, not 30+ million jobless. And if all that is overcome its just going to end up in a social security cut down the line.

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/what-does-trumps-payroll-tax-deferral-mean-for-your-paycheck-not-much-experts-say-2020-08-10

No more money for schools, none for struggling state gov's. Basically these actions are pointless window dressing.

Lets be absolutely clear what happened here, this is not a "both sides" problem. Democrats had a bill for months, republicans dragged their feet because there is significant resistance in their own party against spending more money. And now here we are.

The Democrat Bill was a bloated $3 trillion wishlist of handouts.  It wasn’t a serious attempt at reaching a deal.

And, Trump’s executive order is better than what Congress has passed, so I’m not sure what the objection is. Something is better than nothing.

Well putting aside the fact that I very much disagree with the characterization of the democrats bill.....

The objection is that 3 trillion dollars even if 50% of it is just literally lighting money on fire is better than a set of executive order that do literally nothing to actually help.

My main issue here is the blame is not evenly distributed across "congress." The title of the thread should be "Republican senators are terrible at their jobs." I maybe crazy here, but I tend to put more blame on the party that can't even agree amongst itself about what it wants.

Spoken like a blind partisan.

In what way?

Blaming a party for not having its act together when it quite obviously doesn't have its act together is arguably less partisan than the empty platitude of "well both sides...." Thats a thoughtless reflex more than an actual position informed by facts.

The moderate position is only just that, moderate. It isn't necessarily right. It can be, it often is, I dont think it is in this case.

I mean republicans argument is "We're worried about helping people TOO much. During a pandemic. That out party's leader horribly failed to contain. Because of the deficit that we already exploded. By giving a tax cut to the rich."

Isn't expecting a party to all vote together expressly partisan?

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2020, 02:43:39 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 43831
  • Tommy Points: -27021
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
https://www.yahoo.com/money/democratic-gop-leaders-near-finalizing-a-stimulus-deal-160515257.html

Where were these attitudes of “compromise” and “pass what we can agree on” six months ago?

If this gets passed, there will be a lot of self-congratulations and talk of bipartisanship.  What a bunch of bologna.  The only thing that changed is the political calculus.
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2020, 03:27:32 PM »

Offline heyvik

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1643
  • Tommy Points: 66
https://www.yahoo.com/money/democratic-gop-leaders-near-finalizing-a-stimulus-deal-160515257.html

Where were these attitudes of “compromise” and “pass what we can agree on” six months ago?

If this gets passed, there will be a lot of self-congratulations and talk of bipartisanship.  What a bunch of bologna.  The only thing that changed is the political calculus.

Completely agree. I will have to say that Trump is powerful but Mitch McConnell has is a VERY close 2nd. I know there's a give and take but the havoc he's personally done for the past few years is really astonishing.

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2020, 04:15:01 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5226
  • Tommy Points: 440
https://www.yahoo.com/money/democratic-gop-leaders-near-finalizing-a-stimulus-deal-160515257.html

Where were these attitudes of “compromise” and “pass what we can agree on” six months ago?

If this gets passed, there will be a lot of self-congratulations and talk of bipartisanship.  What a bunch of bologna.  The only thing that changed is the political calculus.

This is likely true but in of itself, does not explain much.

I can see that the lame duck Reps/Senators may be looking at this differently as they were not reelected.  Are you suggesting that if Trump had won, things regarding a deal would be different?  Again, perhaps true, but what would be the difference in the Calculus?

I am sure that I don't understand the calculus, either in the first case or how it has changed.  The virus is still the virus, these elected officials that opposed a deal didn't really think the virus was just going to go away did they?  We still have the same deficit and debt.  Just as much unemployment.  Those who believe this is a bail out to Blue States and lazy people still feel that way.

Maybe those who did get reelected, but by narrower margins than expected, decided it was time to do their jobs.  I guess that could be a change in political calculus.

This is a humanitarian and economic crisis, even through there are still many that may believe otherwise.  A crisis like this requires sacrifice.  Passing bills (either spending or tax cutting) and running up debt is actually pretty easy as politics go.  We are far from out of this.  Taxes are going to be needed.  Spending cuts are going to be needed.  Other sacrifices as well.  Is the country ready to face that reality?  Are the politicians ready to be the ones to acknowledge these realities?  Probably not.

Passing this bill is just a meager start.  It is necessary to avoid a whole lot of homelessness and other suffering but still not doing any of the really hard stuff that is going to be needed.  That applies equally to spending towards a greener economy, tough decisions about defense spending, taxation levels, health care costs, you name it.  Something has to give on some or all of these to cover the cost (direct and indirect) of the virus.  Yes, some are going to have to pay more taxes.  No, we can't just negate all student debt.  Yes, we may have to reduce defense spending.  No, we can't try to fund a green economy right now.  And yes, we are going to have to find a better way to provide health care to our citizens.

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2020, 06:45:58 PM »

Offline Uncle_Stingfinger

  • Marcus Smart
  • Posts: 194
  • Tommy Points: 8
Have you guys ever read "Republic Lost"  by Lessig?    He seems to have the only way forward.

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2020, 07:28:32 PM »

Offline Ogaju

  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14301
  • Tommy Points: 1457
Yeah, its the major problem in our government, and its been broken for a while. It began at least back during Obama's term when the strategy of the Republicans became 'lets fully oppose and block every single thing the democrats propose until we can get our own president in there'.

It just got worse since then. Government doesn't work with this mindset. I think whoever gets voted in should have 4 years to enact their agenda, and if people don't like it, we can vote them out and change it. But you have to give them a chance to enact it.

Good idea.... the problem with congress can be traced to the GOP just going gang busters over Bill Clinton. What did that guy ever do to them other than defeat an incumbent GOP president. The vile with which they went against him has given impetus to a new political discourse. They went travel gate, the accused him of killing Foster, they went White Water (some land deal in Arkansas that nobody can explain here), the Rose Law Firm attacks because his wife was a aprtner there, they accused him of sexual harrasment and even rape, they disgraced the presidency  by having the president sit for a deposition while in office, not just any deposition a VIDEO deposition, that was then leaked to the press, they impeached him because he had sex with an intern, this was after they printed an unabridged Starr report on the internet. What did he ever do to them other than beat an incumbent president? It couldnt be his social policies could it? He did end welfare and forced the recipient of AFDC to go to work. So it could nt be that. His economic polices maybe? No it couldnt be that he erased the deficit and had the government running on a surplus when he left office. What did he ever do to them? He played the Sax on Arsenio Hall, the HORROR. He was also famously referred to as the first black president.. Hmmm. He named the first woman AG. He diversified the government. Republicans do not like that. He tried to enact Universal Health ..hmmmm.

The whole impeachment of Bill Clinton was a charade. Activists like Asa Hutchinson, Lindsey Graham, and the Chairman of the House Judiciary (his name escapes me now) stopped at nothing to crucify the man for having sexx with an intern. The entire thing was disgraceful and once you let that happen what you have now is what you get. Graham was richly rewarded for his part in that debacle he is now an 'elder statesman' and the Chair of the Senate Judciary Committee.Why should he stop doing what works.

After Clinton they aided by the SCOTUS selected GW and you see what disaster that was. Obama came in and the GOP resorted to form. With Obama they could not manufacture a scandal but that did not stop them. They just attacked his legitimacy period. As far as they were concerned he was not the president and would not be allowed to do anything. They stopped his presidency about 9 months before it ended by refusing to allow his nominee to the Supreme Court a hearing claiming something about 'The Scalia Seat' as if Suoreme Court seats belong to any individual or ideological group.

You want to solve the problem with government call the culprits out. The GOP is to blame for the problems. Not calling it as it is just perpetuates the problem.

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2020, 10:48:24 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5981
  • Tommy Points: 664
Congress and politics as of late, appear to be a mirror of our society.  I am disgusted that no matter what, they refuse to come together for the good of all Amercans.

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2020, 12:08:31 AM »

Offline mmmmm

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5295
  • Tommy Points: 862
The whole impeachment of Bill Clinton was a charade. Activists like Asa Hutchinson, Lindsey Graham, and the Chairman of the House Judiciary (his name escapes me now) stopped at nothing to crucify the man for having sexx with an intern. The entire thing was disgraceful and once you let that happen what you have now is what you get. Graham was richly rewarded for his part in that debacle he is now an 'elder statesman' and the Chair of the Senate Judciary Committee.Why should he stop doing what works.

The name that is escaping you was Henry Hyde (R., Illinois' 6th District).   A real piece of work.   Had an affair (while married) with a married woman, leading to the wreck of two families (though he late reconciled with his wife, the other woman's family (she had 3 kids) was shattered).  Sat in high moral judgement and righteous indignation over Clinton.

The GOP at the time was keen on selling itself as the party of 'family values'.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2020, 12:55:28 AM »

Offline Ogaju

  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14301
  • Tommy Points: 1457
The whole impeachment of Bill Clinton was a charade. Activists like Asa Hutchinson, Lindsey Graham, and the Chairman of the House Judiciary (his name escapes me now) stopped at nothing to crucify the man for having sexx with an intern. The entire thing was disgraceful and once you let that happen what you have now is what you get. Graham was richly rewarded for his part in that debacle he is now an 'elder statesman' and the Chair of the Senate Judciary Committee.Why should he stop doing what works.

The name that is escaping you was Henry Hyde (R., Illinois' 6th District).   A real piece of work.   Had an affair (while married) with a married woman, leading to the wreck of two families (though he late reconciled with his wife, the other woman's family (she had 3 kids) was shattered).  Sat in high moral judgement and righteous indignation over Clinton.

The GOP at the time was keen on selling itself as the party of 'family values'.

Yeah that was him ans the family values party was led by Newt Gingrich, and BL the guy who was to replace him at speaker but fell to his own marital scandal. You cannot make up the sheer hypocrisy of the GOP!!

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2020, 02:59:54 AM »

Offline Sophomore

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3500
  • Tommy Points: 490
https://www.yahoo.com/money/democratic-gop-leaders-near-finalizing-a-stimulus-deal-160515257.html

Where were these attitudes of “compromise” and “pass what we can agree on” six months ago?

If this gets passed, there will be a lot of self-congratulations and talk of bipartisanship.  What a bunch of bologna.  The only thing that changed is the political calculus.

Politicians have always responded to political signals.

Legislation is a negotiation. Parties try to get the best deal they can, and just as in business or home buying, sometimes no deal is better than a bad deal.

I see a lot of comment on the thread about coming together for the good of America. But if the parties disagree about what’s really good for America how do you do that? If you’re lucky the incentives push ppl toward voting for good outcomes, but that often doesn’t happen.

I’d prefer a parliamentary system, like in England, where the party that wins an election actually gets to govern. Then voters know who is responsible for outcomes and can decide whether or not to vote the bums out. In our system, it’s too easy to obstruct and then confuse voters about who did what.

How many people know why there wasn’t a covid relief bill before the election? I’m sure Ds and Rs can give you their versions, but the explanations differ and who really knows? At least if one party was in power you could decide whether you liked the outcome and vote accordingly.

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2020, 06:53:18 AM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 43831
  • Tommy Points: -27021
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
https://www.yahoo.com/money/democratic-gop-leaders-near-finalizing-a-stimulus-deal-160515257.html

Where were these attitudes of “compromise” and “pass what we can agree on” six months ago?

If this gets passed, there will be a lot of self-congratulations and talk of bipartisanship.  What a bunch of bologna.  The only thing that changed is the political calculus.

Politicians have always responded to political signals.

Legislation is a negotiation. Parties try to get the best deal they can, and just as in business or home buying, sometimes no deal is better than a bad deal.

I see a lot of comment on the thread about coming together for the good of America. But if the parties disagree about what’s really good for America how do you do that? If you’re lucky the incentives push ppl toward voting for good outcomes, but that often doesn’t happen.

I’d prefer a parliamentary system, like in England, where the party that wins an election actually gets to govern. Then voters know who is responsible for outcomes and can decide whether or not to vote the bums out. In our system, it’s too easy to obstruct and then confuse voters about who did what.

How many people know why there wasn’t a covid relief bill before the election? I’m sure Ds and Rs can give you their versions, but the explanations differ and who really knows? At least if one party was in power you could decide whether you liked the outcome and vote accordingly.

It’s not about “political signals”.  It’s about six months of people dying while Congress did nothing.  They easily could have passed this bill back in May or June.

One of the hold ups was making sure that Trump didn’t get an electoral boost.  How many tens of thousands of lives did that cynical political calculation cost?
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.