Author Topic: Congress Is Broken  (Read 1821 times)

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Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2020, 05:33:16 PM »

Offline TheReaLPuba

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It's laughable you guys are blaming the Left when they had a comprehensive bill agreed upon months ago.

The Right has no sense of urgency because they still feel the economy is "booming" or "fine" or "in good shape" and that the virus is a "hoax" and schools should be open since kids "are immune".

Unemployment benefits and its extension is just one issue.

What about schools?

What about health care workers?

What about health coverage?

What about small businesses?

What about stimulating the economy?

What about safety? (virus)

The truth is the Right can't even agree on anything within their own party.

They also were reluctant on a 2nd stimulus package to begin with.

These are known and factual issues.

And they intentionally waited till the last minute to ensure millions of Americans go without unemployment.

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2020, 06:00:29 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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It's laughable you guys are blaming the Left when they had a comprehensive bill agreed upon months ago.

The Right has no sense of urgency because they still feel the economy is "booming" or "fine" or "in good shape" and that the virus is a "hoax" and schools should be open since kids "are immune".

Unemployment benefits and its extension is just one issue.

What about schools?

What about health care workers?

What about health coverage?

What about small businesses?

What about stimulating the economy?

What about safety? (virus)

The truth is the Right can't even agree on anything within their own party.

They also were reluctant on a 2nd stimulus package to begin with.

These are known and factual issues.

And they intentionally waited till the last minute to ensure millions of Americans go without unemployment.

Well it's probably why I'm not now and should never be a high stakes negotiator. 

It seemed a pragmatic piece if the $600 extension for 4 months was on the table to take it and then work on other things rather than getting nothing.  But I can be convinced that 1) that wasn't what was on the table and 2) it was the smarter thing to not accept it if that was all the Rs were offering. 

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2020, 06:03:00 PM »

Offline TheReaLPuba

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The GOP COVID-19 bill includes

$2 billion for F-35s
$1.75 billion for an FBI building
$1 billion for surveillance planes
$375 million for armored vehicles
$360 million for missile defense
$283 million for Apache helicopters
$0 for millions facing eviction



Also we need to apparently replace military funding because this administration illegally diverted funds from the military to use for the Border Wall.

"The HEALS Act includes nearly $30 billion in military spending. Much of the spending, NBC News points out, will restore programs that were gutted to pay for President Donald. J. Trumpís wall along the US-Mexico border. Trump repeatedly promised during his campaign and the early years of presidency that the wall would be funded by Mexico, though there was no real plan to do so."

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a33460334/gop-coronavirus-f-35/

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2020, 07:14:08 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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It's laughable you guys are blaming the Left when they had a comprehensive bill agreed upon months ago.

The Right has no sense of urgency because they still feel the economy is "booming" or "fine" or "in good shape" and that the virus is a "hoax" and schools should be open since kids "are immune".

Unemployment benefits and its extension is just one issue.

What about schools?

What about health care workers?

What about health coverage?

What about small businesses?

What about stimulating the economy?

What about safety? (virus)

The truth is the Right can't even agree on anything within their own party.

They also were reluctant on a 2nd stimulus package to begin with.

These are known and factual issues.

And they intentionally waited till the last minute to ensure millions of Americans go without unemployment.

Neither does the left sadly and they have some power.

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2020, 07:24:54 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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It's laughable you guys are blaming the Left when they had a comprehensive bill agreed upon months ago.

The Right has no sense of urgency because they still feel the economy is "booming" or "fine" or "in good shape" and that the virus is a "hoax" and schools should be open since kids "are immune".

Unemployment benefits and its extension is just one issue.

What about schools?

What about health care workers?

What about health coverage?

What about small businesses?

What about stimulating the economy?

What about safety? (virus)

The truth is the Right can't even agree on anything within their own party.

They also were reluctant on a 2nd stimulus package to begin with.

These are known and factual issues.

And they intentionally waited till the last minute to ensure millions of Americans go without unemployment.

Well it's probably why I'm not now and should never be a high stakes negotiator. 

It seemed a pragmatic piece if the $600 extension for 4 months was on the table to take it and then work on other things rather than getting nothing.  But I can be convinced that 1) that wasn't what was on the table and 2) it was the smarter thing to not accept it if that was all the Rs were offering.

From what Iím reading, Republicans made four offers on unemployment benefits, and the Dems rejected all of them without a counter-offer.  Their position was apparently pass the House bill, or pass nothing.

That mentality has been the norm in Washington, and itís stupid.
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2020, 07:32:45 PM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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It's laughable you guys are blaming the Left when they had a comprehensive bill agreed upon months ago.

The Right has no sense of urgency because they still feel the economy is "booming" or "fine" or "in good shape" and that the virus is a "hoax" and schools should be open since kids "are immune".

Unemployment benefits and its extension is just one issue.

What about schools?

What about health care workers?

What about health coverage?

What about small businesses?

What about stimulating the economy?

What about safety? (virus)

The truth is the Right can't even agree on anything within their own party.

They also were reluctant on a 2nd stimulus package to begin with.

These are known and factual issues.

And they intentionally waited till the last minute to ensure millions of Americans go without unemployment.

Well it's probably why I'm not now and should never be a high stakes negotiator. 

It seemed a pragmatic piece if the $600 extension for 4 months was on the table to take it and then work on other things rather than getting nothing.  But I can be convinced that 1) that wasn't what was on the table and 2) it was the smarter thing to not accept it if that was all the Rs were offering.

From what Iím reading, Republicans made four offers on unemployment benefits, and the Dems rejected all of them without a counter-offer.  Their position was apparently pass the House bill, or pass nothing.

That mentality has been the norm in Washington, and itís stupid.
I do not know if that is accurate. The Republicans in the Senate had 10 weeks to negotiate and Pelosi said there would not be a piecemeal deal. Seems like the Republicans called her bluff and Americans pay the price for their game of high stakes chicken.
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Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2020, 07:47:11 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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It's laughable you guys are blaming the Left when they had a comprehensive bill agreed upon months ago.

The Right has no sense of urgency because they still feel the economy is "booming" or "fine" or "in good shape" and that the virus is a "hoax" and schools should be open since kids "are immune".

Unemployment benefits and its extension is just one issue.

What about schools?

What about health care workers?

What about health coverage?

What about small businesses?

What about stimulating the economy?

What about safety? (virus)

The truth is the Right can't even agree on anything within their own party.

They also were reluctant on a 2nd stimulus package to begin with.

These are known and factual issues.

And they intentionally waited till the last minute to ensure millions of Americans go without unemployment.

Well it's probably why I'm not now and should never be a high stakes negotiator. 

It seemed a pragmatic piece if the $600 extension for 4 months was on the table to take it and then work on other things rather than getting nothing.  But I can be convinced that 1) that wasn't what was on the table and 2) it was the smarter thing to not accept it if that was all the Rs were offering.

From what Iím reading, Republicans made four offers on unemployment benefits, and the Dems rejected all of them without a counter-offer.  Their position was apparently pass the House bill, or pass nothing.

That mentality has been the norm in Washington, and itís stupid.
I do not know if that is accurate. The Republicans in the Senate had 10 weeks to negotiate and Pelosi said there would not be a piecemeal deal. Seems like the Republicans called her bluff and Americans pay the price for their game of high stakes chicken.

Oh, you can find fault in both.  As for ďpiecemealĒ, I donít see why thatís bad related to unemployment benefits.  Isnít Pelosi the person who once said something along the lines of ďyou have to pass the bill (Obamacare?) to see whatís in it?.

Iím sick of the 3,000 page bills full of pork and unrelated policy goals.  Puba pointed out some of the Republican pork above.  The $3 trillion Democrat bill included even more of it.
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2020, 08:18:30 PM »

Offline TheReaLPuba

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It's laughable you guys are blaming the Left when they had a comprehensive bill agreed upon months ago.

The Right has no sense of urgency because they still feel the economy is "booming" or "fine" or "in good shape" and that the virus is a "hoax" and schools should be open since kids "are immune".

Unemployment benefits and its extension is just one issue.

What about schools?

What about health care workers?

What about health coverage?

What about small businesses?

What about stimulating the economy?

What about safety? (virus)

The truth is the Right can't even agree on anything within their own party.

They also were reluctant on a 2nd stimulus package to begin with.

These are known and factual issues.

And they intentionally waited till the last minute to ensure millions of Americans go without unemployment.

Well it's probably why I'm not now and should never be a high stakes negotiator. 

It seemed a pragmatic piece if the $600 extension for 4 months was on the table to take it and then work on other things rather than getting nothing.  But I can be convinced that 1) that wasn't what was on the table and 2) it was the smarter thing to not accept it if that was all the Rs were offering.

From what Iím reading, Republicans made four offers on unemployment benefits, and the Dems rejected all of them without a counter-offer.  Their position was apparently pass the House bill, or pass nothing.

That mentality has been the norm in Washington, and itís stupid.

That's just ONE issue that needs to be addressed.

Are the Republicans so feeble minded they can't address multiple issues at once?

Does Congress need to issue 30 separate bills for this 2nd pandemic relief plan?

The Right knew that if they just went with one "skinny bill" the Left wouldn't be willing to deal so then the Right could blame it on the Left.

The reality is the Right had no good faith intention of creating a 2nd pandemic relief bill.

Period.

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2020, 08:26:44 PM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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It's laughable you guys are blaming the Left when they had a comprehensive bill agreed upon months ago.

The Right has no sense of urgency because they still feel the economy is "booming" or "fine" or "in good shape" and that the virus is a "hoax" and schools should be open since kids "are immune".

Unemployment benefits and its extension is just one issue.

What about schools?

What about health care workers?

What about health coverage?

What about small businesses?

What about stimulating the economy?

What about safety? (virus)

The truth is the Right can't even agree on anything within their own party.

They also were reluctant on a 2nd stimulus package to begin with.

These are known and factual issues.

And they intentionally waited till the last minute to ensure millions of Americans go without unemployment.

Well it's probably why I'm not now and should never be a high stakes negotiator. 

It seemed a pragmatic piece if the $600 extension for 4 months was on the table to take it and then work on other things rather than getting nothing.  But I can be convinced that 1) that wasn't what was on the table and 2) it was the smarter thing to not accept it if that was all the Rs were offering.

From what Iím reading, Republicans made four offers on unemployment benefits, and the Dems rejected all of them without a counter-offer.  Their position was apparently pass the House bill, or pass nothing.

That mentality has been the norm in Washington, and itís stupid.
I do not know if that is accurate. The Republicans in the Senate had 10 weeks to negotiate and Pelosi said there would not be a piecemeal deal. Seems like the Republicans called her bluff and Americans pay the price for their game of high stakes chicken.

Oh, you can find fault in both.  As for ďpiecemealĒ, I donít see why thatís bad related to unemployment benefits.  Isnít Pelosi the person who once said something along the lines of ďyou have to pass the bill (Obamacare?) to see whatís in it?.

Iím sick of the 3,000 page bills full of pork and unrelated policy goals.  Puba pointed out some of the Republican pork above.  The $3 trillion Democrat bill included even more of it.
I agree regarding including pork from both sides and if the Repubs proposed $600/wk for a fair amount of time, as a stand alone offer, I would hope and expect that would have been passed. It does not sound like that was on the table.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 09:39:32 PM by chicagoceltic »
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Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2020, 06:53:07 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
President Trump signed four executive orders Saturday aimed at delivering relief to Americans struggling with the economic fallout of the coronavirus while accusing Democrats of stonewalling greater aid efforts.


Trump announced a $400-per-week supplemental unemployment payment to out-of-work Americans -- short of the $600 weekly benefit that expired at the end of July. He unveiled an extension of student loan relief and protections from evictions for renters and homeowners.

Trump also signed a payroll tax holiday through the end of the year for Americans earning less than $100,000, while promising more relief if he wins a second term.

If youíre a Democrat politician, what do you do here?  Do you seek an injunction (no doubt through a surrogate)?  Do you litigate but let the order stay in place?  Do you just concede?
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2020, 07:18:55 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Quote
President Trump signed four executive orders Saturday aimed at delivering relief to Americans struggling with the economic fallout of the coronavirus while accusing Democrats of stonewalling greater aid efforts.


Trump announced a $400-per-week supplemental unemployment payment to out-of-work Americans -- short of the $600 weekly benefit that expired at the end of July. He unveiled an extension of student loan relief and protections from evictions for renters and homeowners.

Trump also signed a payroll tax holiday through the end of the year for Americans earning less than $100,000, while promising more relief if he wins a second term.

If youíre a Democrat politician, what do you do here?  Do you seek an injunction (no doubt through a surrogate)?  Do you litigate but let the order stay in place?  Do you just concede?
Seeking an injunction or litigating just doubles down on their own stupidity.  The Dems just need to accept that they were outplayed. 

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2020, 07:55:16 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
President Trump signed four executive orders Saturday aimed at delivering relief to Americans struggling with the economic fallout of the coronavirus while accusing Democrats of stonewalling greater aid efforts.


Trump announced a $400-per-week supplemental unemployment payment to out-of-work Americans -- short of the $600 weekly benefit that expired at the end of July. He unveiled an extension of student loan relief and protections from evictions for renters and homeowners.

Trump also signed a payroll tax holiday through the end of the year for Americans earning less than $100,000, while promising more relief if he wins a second term.

If youíre a Democrat politician, what do you do here?  Do you seek an injunction (no doubt through a surrogate)?  Do you litigate but let the order stay in place?  Do you just concede?
Seeking an injunction or litigating just doubles down on their own stupidity.  The Dems just need to accept that they were outplayed.

The divided governments with Trump and Obama vs. an unfriendly Congress have really frustrated me.  I majored in government, graduating college in 2000. Back then, it was widely agreed that divided government made for the most effective administrations, because it required compromise, which in turn was best for the American people.  Prime examples were Reagan and Clinton.

Somewhere along the way, that got jettisoned for absolute gridlock. Now we are seeing the natural consequence of that. Congress has abdicated its responsibilities, so the executive branch is stepping into the power vacuum.
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2020, 11:48:05 PM »

Offline ozgod

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Quote
President Trump signed four executive orders Saturday aimed at delivering relief to Americans struggling with the economic fallout of the coronavirus while accusing Democrats of stonewalling greater aid efforts.


Trump announced a $400-per-week supplemental unemployment payment to out-of-work Americans -- short of the $600 weekly benefit that expired at the end of July. He unveiled an extension of student loan relief and protections from evictions for renters and homeowners.

Trump also signed a payroll tax holiday through the end of the year for Americans earning less than $100,000, while promising more relief if he wins a second term.

If youíre a Democrat politician, what do you do here?  Do you seek an injunction (no doubt through a surrogate)?  Do you litigate but let the order stay in place?  Do you just concede?
Seeking an injunction or litigating just doubles down on their own stupidity.  The Dems just need to accept that they were outplayed.

The divided governments with Trump and Obama vs. an unfriendly Congress have really frustrated me.  I majored in government, graduating college in 2000. Back then, it was widely agreed that divided government made for the most effective administrations, because it required compromise, which in turn was best for the American people.  Prime examples were Reagan and Clinton.

Somewhere along the way, that got jettisoned for absolute gridlock. Now we are seeing the natural consequence of that. Congress has abdicated its responsibilities, so the executive branch is stepping into the power vacuum.

I think gerrymandering has a lot to do with that. When you create districts that are overwhelmingly liberal or overwhelmingly conservative, the people they elect are not the compromising types. In fact if they are seen as being willing to reach across the aisle, they usually will end up facing a primary challenge, from either the left if they are Democrat (not socialist enough), or the right if they are Republican (too much of a RINO). People who compromise are seen by the bases of their respective parties as weak. The best way for these politicians to keep their seats is to be inflexible - even if the country as a whole suffers, at least they are "triggering the Dims" or "sticking it to the Repugs". Add to that the whole "politics is war" mentality to pander to each party's base, where the goal is to vanquish the other party rather than work with them, and I think that plays a large part in the dysfunction that we see today.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2020, 09:53:29 PM »

Offline TheReaLPuba

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How does this federal government not know that to fix the economy we have to fix public trust and neutralize this virus before we can start recovering economically?

At this present trajectory we are losing both battles.

People continue to get sick, suffer, and die.

Businesses continue to shutdown and even close for good.

Without anymore relief there will be an increase in homelessness and even hunger.

Forget about making America "great" again.

Can we make America "decent" again?

Re: Congress Is Broken
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2020, 12:15:30 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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Quote
President Trump signed four executive orders Saturday aimed at delivering relief to Americans struggling with the economic fallout of the coronavirus while accusing Democrats of stonewalling greater aid efforts.


Trump announced a $400-per-week supplemental unemployment payment to out-of-work Americans -- short of the $600 weekly benefit that expired at the end of July. He unveiled an extension of student loan relief and protections from evictions for renters and homeowners.

Trump also signed a payroll tax holiday through the end of the year for Americans earning less than $100,000, while promising more relief if he wins a second term.

If youíre a Democrat politician, what do you do here?  Do you seek an injunction (no doubt through a surrogate)?  Do you litigate but let the order stay in place?  Do you just concede?
Seeking an injunction or litigating just doubles down on their own stupidity.  The Dems just need to accept that they were outplayed.

The divided governments with Trump and Obama vs. an unfriendly Congress have really frustrated me.  I majored in government, graduating college in 2000. Back then, it was widely agreed that divided government made for the most effective administrations, because it required compromise, which in turn was best for the American people.  Prime examples were Reagan and Clinton.

Somewhere along the way, that got jettisoned for absolute gridlock. Now we are seeing the natural consequence of that. Congress has abdicated its responsibilities, so the executive branch is stepping into the power vacuum.

Except its really not, these steps are more or less meaningless window dressing.

The eviction "moratorium" for example is toothless, its actually a suggestion to government agencies that they consider ways to lessen evictions.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/10/president-trumps-executive-order-does-not-extend-eviction-moratorium.html

The extension of unemployment benefits puts 25% of the benefits on states, many of which don't have the money at all which could prevent any disbursement of those funds.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/08/10/400-unemployment-extension-start-trump-signs-executive-order-in-lieu-coronavirus-stimulus-package/#6dc0559347c7

The payroll tax "cut" is actually a deferral, those funds are still owed at the end of the year. Its likely that as a result companies will be reluctant to actually pass that money onto their employees. And it only helps those who actually have jobs, not 30+ million jobless. And if all that is overcome its just going to end up in a social security cut down the line.

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/what-does-trumps-payroll-tax-deferral-mean-for-your-paycheck-not-much-experts-say-2020-08-10

No more money for schools, none for struggling state gov's. Basically these actions are pointless window dressing.

Lets be absolutely clear what happened here, this is not a "both sides" problem. Democrats had a bill for months, republicans dragged their feet because there is significant resistance in their own party against spending more money. And now here we are.