Author Topic: Republicans  (Read 2609 times)

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Re: Republicans
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2020, 06:48:35 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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The Lincoln Project is full of ex Bush employees, racists, sexist, warmongering neocons who were rejected by the republican voters and are jumping ship to the Democrats who are all too happy to embrace them. I really we should keep an eye on them because I don’t like this allying of neocons and neoliberals at all.

I'm not sure about all of them, but pretty sure you are wrong on most counts.  Not sure where you get that Steve Schmidt, for example, is a warmongering, sexist, racist.

The group has been about as transparent as a group can be -- hard to view their web-site and think that they are trying to fool anyone... Pretty straight forward messaging, IMO.  Really clear that they maintain conservative economic values and really clear that what they hate is Trump and the loss of their party to Trumpism. I think the happy alliance you see with libs and this group will be short-lived.  But I see it as a really good thing as conservatives, instead of fighting democrats, are uniting in pursuit of a common goal.  I happen to be in favor of their goal, so I like it.  I much prefer the notion of finding common ground than constantly fighting. 

Really not sure why this would be something to worry about unless you want a 2nd term for Trump.

You have to look at the people running it, Rick Wilson has posted racist, homophobic things to Obama and Biden and also had an instagram pic hanging out with friends who had the Confederate flag. This uniting for a common goal is a sham and it's for their own self interests.

Re: Republicans
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2020, 06:54:13 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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The Lincoln Project is full of ex Bush employees, racists, sexist, warmongering neocons who were rejected by the republican voters and are jumping ship to the Democrats who are all too happy to embrace them. I really we should keep an eye on them because I don’t like this allying of neocons and neoliberals at all.

I'm not sure about all of them, but pretty sure you are wrong on most counts.  Not sure where you get that Steve Schmidt, for example, is a warmongering, sexist, racist.

The group has been about as transparent as a group can be -- hard to view their web-site and think that they are trying to fool anyone... Pretty straight forward messaging, IMO.  Really clear that they maintain conservative economic values and really clear that what they hate is Trump and the loss of their party to Trumpism. I think the happy alliance you see with libs and this group will be short-lived.  But I see it as a really good thing as conservatives, instead of fighting democrats, are uniting in pursuit of a common goal.  I happen to be in favor of their goal, so I like it.  I much prefer the notion of finding common ground than constantly fighting. 

Really not sure why this would be something to worry about unless you want a 2nd term for Trump.

You have to look at the people running it, Rick Wilson has posted racist, homophobic things to Obama and Biden and also had an instagram pic hanging out with friends who had the Confederate flag. This uniting for a common goal is a sham and it's for their own self interests.

Why did they turn on Trump? So many common interests.

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Re: Republicans
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2020, 07:08:43 PM »

Online Roy H.

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The Lincoln Project is full of ex Bush employees, racists, sexist, warmongering neocons who were rejected by the republican voters and are jumping ship to the Democrats who are all too happy to embrace them. I really we should keep an eye on them because I don’t like this allying of neocons and neoliberals at all.

I'm not sure about all of them, but pretty sure you are wrong on most counts.  Not sure where you get that Steve Schmidt, for example, is a warmongering, sexist, racist.

The group has been about as transparent as a group can be -- hard to view their web-site and think that they are trying to fool anyone... Pretty straight forward messaging, IMO.  Really clear that they maintain conservative economic values and really clear that what they hate is Trump and the loss of their party to Trumpism. I think the happy alliance you see with libs and this group will be short-lived.  But I see it as a really good thing as conservatives, instead of fighting democrats, are uniting in pursuit of a common goal.  I happen to be in favor of their goal, so I like it.  I much prefer the notion of finding common ground than constantly fighting. 

Really not sure why this would be something to worry about unless you want a 2nd term for Trump.

You have to look at the people running it, Rick Wilson has posted racist, homophobic things to Obama and Biden and also had an instagram pic hanging out with friends who had the Confederate flag. This uniting for a common goal is a sham and it's for their own self interests.

https://nypost.com/2020/07/21/lincoln-project-founders-have-ties-to-russia-tax-troubles-docs/

https://mobile.twitter.com/rpyers/status/1222965480656261121?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1222965480656261121%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redstate.com%2Fbradslager%2F2020%2F04%2F11%2Fthe-anti-trump-super-pac-the-lincoln-project-financials-show-what-they-truly-conserve-is-their-own-bank-accounts%2F


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Re: Republicans
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2020, 09:04:02 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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The Lincoln Project is full of ex Bush employees, racists, sexist, warmongering neocons who were rejected by the republican voters and are jumping ship to the Democrats who are all too happy to embrace them. I really we should keep an eye on them because I don’t like this allying of neocons and neoliberals at all.

I'm not sure about all of them, but pretty sure you are wrong on most counts.  Not sure where you get that Steve Schmidt, for example, is a warmongering, sexist, racist.

The group has been about as transparent as a group can be -- hard to view their web-site and think that they are trying to fool anyone... Pretty straight forward messaging, IMO.  Really clear that they maintain conservative economic values and really clear that what they hate is Trump and the loss of their party to Trumpism. I think the happy alliance you see with libs and this group will be short-lived.  But I see it as a really good thing as conservatives, instead of fighting democrats, are uniting in pursuit of a common goal.  I happen to be in favor of their goal, so I like it.  I much prefer the notion of finding common ground than constantly fighting. 

Really not sure why this would be something to worry about unless you want a 2nd term for Trump.

You have to look at the people running it, Rick Wilson has posted racist, homophobic things to Obama and Biden and also had an instagram pic hanging out with friends who had the Confederate flag. This uniting for a common goal is a sham and it's for their own self interests.

I doubt all the founders of the LP are completely clean -- the NY Post article Roy linked shows some money owed and lobbying skeletons. But frankly, the Post was clearly trying hard to find dirt and really didn't pull many down with that article.  Steve Schmidt's "dirt" appears to be that he wasn't in the voter registry in his home state. 

Uniting for a common goal was my thought not something I saw stated on their web-site.  They are just former republicans who still identify as conservatives who think Trump is an embarrassment, an abomination, and dangerous.  And they are correct. 

Re: Republicans
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2020, 08:32:49 AM »

Offline Wretch

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Enemy of your enemy is your friend, and all that.

Yeah, the two biggest issues facing this nation are bigotry and marxism.  I'll befriend the rotten collectivists for now, because bigotry is currently a more pressing matter, but make no mistake, the collectivists are still my enemy.

Now get off my lawn and get your hands out of my pockets!

I think you may be overlooking that the collectivists are equally intolerant and bigoted, and aren’t opposed to using violence and lawlessness to advance their goals.
As opposed to?

There’s been a whole lot more violence from the left than the right in America lately.

That's just wrong.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states

from the article:
"This analysis makes several arguments. First, far-right terrorism has significantly outpaced terrorism from other types of perpetrators, including from far-left networks and individuals inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaeda. Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020"
« Last Edit: July 30, 2020, 08:44:17 AM by Wretch »

Re: Republicans
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2020, 08:58:28 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Enemy of your enemy is your friend, and all that.

Yeah, the two biggest issues facing this nation are bigotry and marxism.  I'll befriend the rotten collectivists for now, because bigotry is currently a more pressing matter, but make no mistake, the collectivists are still my enemy.

Now get off my lawn and get your hands out of my pockets!

I think you may be overlooking that the collectivists are equally intolerant and bigoted, and aren’t opposed to using violence and lawlessness to advance their goals.
As opposed to?

There’s been a whole lot more violence from the left than the right in America lately.

That's just wrong.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states

from the article:
"This analysis makes several arguments. First, far-right terrorism has significantly outpaced terrorism from other types of perpetrators, including from far-left networks and individuals inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaeda. Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020"

I said “violence” and “lately”.  This paper is based upon the authors’ definition of terrorism, which includes fewer than 900 cases and attempted cases over the past 26 years.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2020, 09:05:42 AM by Roy H. »
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Re: Republicans
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2020, 09:13:48 AM »

Offline Wretch

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Enemy of your enemy is your friend, and all that.

Yeah, the two biggest issues facing this nation are bigotry and marxism.  I'll befriend the rotten collectivists for now, because bigotry is currently a more pressing matter, but make no mistake, the collectivists are still my enemy.

Now get off my lawn and get your hands out of my pockets!

I think you may be overlooking that the collectivists are equally intolerant and bigoted, and aren’t opposed to using violence and lawlessness to advance their goals.
As opposed to?

There’s been a whole lot more violence from the left than the right in America lately.

That's just wrong.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states

from the article:
"This analysis makes several arguments. First, far-right terrorism has significantly outpaced terrorism from other types of perpetrators, including from far-left networks and individuals inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaeda. Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020"

I said “violence” and “lately”.  This paper is based upon the authors’ definition of terrorism, which includes fewer than 900 cases and attempted cases over the past 26 years.

Don't let expert analysis and facts get in the way of your opinion/world view...summing up the problem with the Republican Party. (of which I am a former member.)

Re: Republicans
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2020, 09:20:06 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Enemy of your enemy is your friend, and all that.

Yeah, the two biggest issues facing this nation are bigotry and marxism.  I'll befriend the rotten collectivists for now, because bigotry is currently a more pressing matter, but make no mistake, the collectivists are still my enemy.

Now get off my lawn and get your hands out of my pockets!

I think you may be overlooking that the collectivists are equally intolerant and bigoted, and aren’t opposed to using violence and lawlessness to advance their goals.
As opposed to?

There’s been a whole lot more violence from the left than the right in America lately.

That's just wrong.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states

from the article:
"This analysis makes several arguments. First, far-right terrorism has significantly outpaced terrorism from other types of perpetrators, including from far-left networks and individuals inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaeda. Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020"

I said “violence” and “lately”.  This paper is based upon the authors’ definition of terrorism, which includes fewer than 900 cases and attempted cases over the past 26 years.

Don't let expert analysis and facts get in the way of your opinion/world view...summing up the problem with the Republican Party. (of which I am a former member.)

It’s not expert analysis of violence. It doesn’t include any of the violent incidents related to the nationwide riots. I believe in facts, but they need to be relevant to what is being discussed.

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Re: Republicans
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2020, 09:37:35 AM »

Offline Wretch

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You mean these:

"U.S. assessment finds opportunists drive protest violence, not extremists"
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-protests-extremist/us-assessment-finds-opportunists-drive-protest-violence-not-extremists-idUSKBN23A1KU

"Alleged Followers of Boogaloo Movement Face Charges Linked to Protests"
https://www.wsj.com/articles/alleged-followers-of-boogaloo-movement-face-charges-linked-to-protests-11592920008

"FBI 'has no intelligence' indicating antifa was linked to weekend violence in the George Floyd protests, despite Trump and Republicans' claims"
https://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-no-intelligence-antifa-weekend-violence-george-floyd-protests-2020-6

"Minneapolis police identify 'Umbrella Man' who helped incite George Floyd riots, warrant says"
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/28/us/umbrella-man-associated-white-supremacist-group-george-floyd/index.html

Re: Republicans
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2020, 11:33:09 AM »

Offline gift

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You mean these:

"U.S. assessment finds opportunists drive protest violence, not extremists"
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-protests-extremist/us-assessment-finds-opportunists-drive-protest-violence-not-extremists-idUSKBN23A1KU

"Alleged Followers of Boogaloo Movement Face Charges Linked to Protests"
https://www.wsj.com/articles/alleged-followers-of-boogaloo-movement-face-charges-linked-to-protests-11592920008

"FBI 'has no intelligence' indicating antifa was linked to weekend violence in the George Floyd protests, despite Trump and Republicans' claims"
https://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-no-intelligence-antifa-weekend-violence-george-floyd-protests-2020-6

"Minneapolis police identify 'Umbrella Man' who helped incite George Floyd riots, warrant says"
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/28/us/umbrella-man-associated-white-supremacist-group-george-floyd/index.html

I definitely think there are people with many different agendas contributing. But it's worth noting that the first article is based on incomplete information, yet still indicates Antifa involvement. The one where the FBI 'has no intelligence' of Antifa involvement would seem to contradict that except when you realize it is only talking about a specific weekend.

Re: Republicans
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2020, 02:38:04 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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The Lincoln Project is full of ex Bush employees, racists, sexist, warmongering neocons who were rejected by the republican voters and are jumping ship to the Democrats who are all too happy to embrace them. I really we should keep an eye on them because I don’t like this allying of neocons and neoliberals at all.

Yeah, their narrative is clever, but they’re just pulling the wool over the eyes of people who hate Trump and therefore don’t scrutinize them.

I certainly can't claim that I know all of the secret motivations of the Lincoln project but if they are trying to pull some head-fake by appearing to coddle the Trump haters while having some secret agenda, what is the end game of that strategy?  Who exactly is getting the wool pulled over their eyes?  What is the Lincoln project really trying to do?

Why is it so hard to believe that there is a constituency of republicans who do consider themselves conservative, but don't like Trump?  This does not seem surprising or clandestine to me at all.  In my mind, the republican party has been getting more divisive and simply anti-democrat (vs. pro conservatism) for some time.  I don't think the question should be why are these republicans acting this way now but rather, why did it take so long.

This all started with Newt Gingrich.  He came up with the idea that instead of just disagreeing with a "progressive" policy, accuse them of hating america, wanting to take guns away, wanting to end religion, create a nation of welfare queens...  The strategy worked, they kept doubling down on it, and ended up with Trump as the face of the party.  Now there are a whole host of republicans who no longer embrace the party of Trump.  Yeah, this is clearly some deep state conspiracy of some sort.

Re: Republicans
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2020, 02:39:20 PM »

Offline Wretch

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa

0
Victims killed in anti-fascist attacks since 1994

21
Victims killed in left-wing violence since 2010

95
Victims killed in jihadist attacks since 2010

117
Victims killed in right-wing violence since 2010

329
Victims killed in right-wing violence since 1994

I can do this all day.

Re: Republicans
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2020, 03:52:22 PM »

Offline gift

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa

0
Victims killed in anti-fascist attacks since 1994

21
Victims killed in left-wing violence since 2010

95
Victims killed in jihadist attacks since 2010

117
Victims killed in right-wing violence since 2010

329
Victims killed in right-wing violence since 1994

I can do this all day.

Right-wing terrorists [defined as] "...opposition to government authority,..."
Left-wing terrorists [defined as] "...support for decentralized political and social systems,..."

Some of these people belong together and don't even realize it.

Re: Republicans
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2020, 04:26:07 PM »

Online Roy H.

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa

0
Victims killed in anti-fascist attacks since 1994

21
Victims killed in left-wing violence since 2010

95
Victims killed in jihadist attacks since 2010

117
Victims killed in right-wing violence since 2010

329
Victims killed in right-wing violence since 1994

I can do this all day.

When a parent drives her vehicle into a BLM occupied zone and her child is killed when multiple “peaceful protesters” fire indiscriminately into her vehicle, where do we categorize that?

When several cops are killed in ambushes, where do we classify that?

What about the billions of dollars in property damage?  The cops blinded by lasers, injured by thrown rocks, bricks and bottles?

Show me those numbers, please.
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Re: Republicans
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2020, 05:16:44 PM »

Offline Wretch

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa

0
Victims killed in anti-fascist attacks since 1994

21
Victims killed in left-wing violence since 2010

95
Victims killed in jihadist attacks since 2010

117
Victims killed in right-wing violence since 2010

329
Victims killed in right-wing violence since 1994

I can do this all day.

When a parent drives her vehicle into a BLM occupied zone and her child is killed when multiple “peaceful protesters” fire indiscriminately into her vehicle, where do we categorize that?

When several cops are killed in ambushes, where do we classify that?

What about the billions of dollars in property damage?  The cops blinded by lasers, injured by thrown rocks, bricks and bottles?

Show me those numbers, please.

At no point have I said there is not left wing violence what I have presented information on is that right wing violence is more prevalent and deadly.  You claimed left winger are perpetrating more violence I countered that statement with facts.  You still cling to you world view despite the facts.

For the record violence from the left or right is wrong but let's look at the really threats to safety. Right wing, fascists, ethno-nationalists, white supremacists and their ilk are far more dangerous than Antifa or other left wing anarchists.