Author Topic: Federal law enforcement in US cities / Portland riots  (Read 2393 times)

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Re: Federal law enforcement in US cities / Portland riots
« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2020, 10:35:56 PM »

Online gouki88

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Oh NOW proof is needed. Wasn't much of a problem when it came to conspiracy theories such as Russiagate.
Talk about an attempt at deflecting. It shouldn’t really be surprising that people are more prone to believing things that fit their worldview.

Proof of such things really should be a good baseline for things like this man

Oh please, of course I ask for proof.
Then why bring up something completely unrelated? Who here specifically was jumping to big conclusions without any evidence during “Russiagate”

Re: Federal law enforcement in US cities / Portland riots
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2020, 10:36:26 PM »

Online GreenFaith1819

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Oh NOW proof is needed. Wasn't much of a problem when it came to conspiracy theories such as Russiagate.

Why not?

Why is asking for such a thing a foreign term?

Russiagate? That is moving the goalposts, my friend.

With ALL of the entities in POR right now (I've heard from Ken Kucinelli's mouth) - Ice Agents, Federal Forces, Border Patrol, Air Marshals......I am certain that they can find some proof.

Just be consistent then.

What do you mean be consistent?

I mean I've been an angry Black Man that wants this country to heal for the longest.

Just what have I not been consistent with?
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Re: Federal law enforcement in US cities / Portland riots
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2020, 10:37:38 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Oh NOW proof is needed. Wasn't much of a problem when it came to conspiracy theories such as Russiagate.
Talk about an attempt at deflecting. It shouldn’t really be surprising that people are more prone to believing things that fit their worldview.

Proof of such things really should be a good baseline for things like this man

Oh please, of course I ask for proof.
Then why bring up something completely unrelated? Who here specifically was jumping to big conclusions without any evidence during “Russiagate”

Because for a long time now the narrative from the right has been to inject whenever possible the idea that the Mueller investigation was baseless and completely exonerated everyone involved.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Federal law enforcement in US cities / Portland riots
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2020, 10:38:15 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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Oh Andy Ngo, you fascist loving muppet. That guy is the worst.

Because he said something you disagree with?

No, because his credibility is shot. If you know anything about Andy Ngo, you know he's pretty famous for twisting the truth especially in these kinds of contexts. He's built his whole career on it and has been exposed as a liar multiple times. Kind of the Jacob Wohl of conflict journalism.

Quote
Don't tell me you actually are praising the attack on that tweet.

No, on face value, absolutely not. But I'd be careful to accept anything significant Andy Ngo offers at face value. I would be very surprised if what is happening in that tweet is the whole story, or even representative of the whole story.

It seems like a fairly straight forward video, as does the one of attempting to set the courthouse on fire.

I'm sure if it were a right winger group doing this there will be outrage.

Re: Federal law enforcement in US cities / Portland riots
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2020, 10:38:59 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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Oh NOW proof is needed. Wasn't much of a problem when it came to conspiracy theories such as Russiagate.
Talk about an attempt at deflecting. It shouldn’t really be surprising that people are more prone to believing things that fit their worldview.

Proof of such things really should be a good baseline for things like this man

Oh please, of course I ask for proof.
Then why bring up something completely unrelated? Who here specifically was jumping to big conclusions without any evidence during “Russiagate”

I was using it as an example of the double standards on this site.

Re: Federal law enforcement in US cities / Portland riots
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2020, 10:51:06 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Oh Andy Ngo, you fascist loving muppet. That guy is the worst.

Because he said something you disagree with?

No, because his credibility is shot. If you know anything about Andy Ngo, you know he's pretty famous for twisting the truth especially in these kinds of contexts. He's built his whole career on it and has been exposed as a liar multiple times. Kind of the Jacob Wohl of conflict journalism.

Quote
Don't tell me you actually are praising the attack on that tweet.

No, on face value, absolutely not. But I'd be careful to accept anything significant Andy Ngo offers at face value. I would be very surprised if what is happening in that tweet is the whole story, or even representative of the whole story.

It seems like a fairly straight forward video, as does the one of attempting to set the courthouse on fire.

I'm sure if it were a right winger group doing this there will be outrage.

If it were someone besides Andy Ngo who had real credibility it would be a different story. He literally defines the story look him up. Look at the underhanded stuff he's done.

The video might look straight forward but he's been known to use plants, to edit in such a way that it misrepresented an event, or to flat out lie. Look the guy up.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Federal law enforcement in US cities / Portland riots
« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2020, 11:01:06 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Oh Andy Ngo, you fascist loving muppet. That guy is the worst.

Because he said something you disagree with?

No, because his credibility is shot. If you know anything about Andy Ngo, you know he's pretty famous for twisting the truth especially in these kinds of contexts. He's built his whole career on it and has been exposed as a liar multiple times. Kind of the Jacob Wohl of conflict journalism.

Quote
Don't tell me you actually are praising the attack on that tweet.

No, on face value, absolutely not. But I'd be careful to accept anything significant Andy Ngo offers at face value. I would be very surprised if what is happening in that tweet is the whole story, or even representative of the whole story.

It seems like a fairly straight forward video, as does the one of attempting to set the courthouse on fire.

I'm sure if it were a right winger group doing this there will be outrage.

If it were someone besides Andy Ngo who had real credibility it would be a different story. He literally defines the story look him up. Look at the underhanded stuff he's done.

The video might look straight forward but he's been known to use plants, to edit in such a way that it misrepresented an event, or to flat out lie. Look the guy up.

The fires at the courthouse were widely reported, including one the official police blotter.

https://www.portlandoregon.gov/police/news/read.cfm?id=251013

If this nude is staging the linked videos, he needs to become a Hollywood director, because he’s got magic talent.

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Re: Federal law enforcement in US cities / Portland riots
« Reply #52 on: July 21, 2020, 11:47:04 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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My point: If you see an Andy Ngo video and think, "That's insane, I can't believe that happened like that", go find another source, because he's burned his bridge as an honest journalist.

This happens to me sometimes. On my twitter timeline some crazy video will show up, and from a source that has a history of posting misleading information. Most of the times for me it's from someone linking to a literally far left news aggregator. When you see something that seems crazy, look for it somewhere else to see if it's consistent. With the Andy Ngo video of the guy with the shield stopping the detainment, I haven't seen that corroborated yet, or heard anyone else's narrative besides right wing grifter Andy Ngo's.


"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Federal law enforcement in US cities / Portland riots
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2020, 12:19:13 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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It just donned on be today, and if someone else pointed this out then sorry for missing it, but the Trump administration doesn't really care whether the presence of federal troops leads to violence against protestors. in fact they probably hope it does.

Inserting out of town troops seemingly authorized to use methods of questionable legality against protestors who are protesting police brutality only increases the likelihood of violence, it almost guarantees it. But Trump can actually use that violence to continue his "law and order" narrative to try and scare voters. I mean he's been trying to convince the American public for months with seemingly little success that antifa mobs or BLM protestors were coming for them, so what better way to drive that narrative then create a situation where there will likely be more violence? It doesn't seem like it has a high likelihood to work, but when the economy is terrible and you've almost single handedly made a pandemic worse its probably better (for trump) to talk about how awful things are in Portland than what we've been talking about.

TLDR: I think trump is purposefully trying to set off a powder keg.

Re: Federal law enforcement in US cities / Portland riots
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2020, 12:24:18 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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It just donned on be today, and if someone else pointed this out then sorry for missing it, but the Trump administration doesn't really care whether the presence of federal troops leads to violence against protestors. in fact they probably hope it does.

Inserting out of town troops seemingly authorized to use methods of questionable legality against protestors who are protesting police brutality only increases the likelihood of violence, it almost guarantees it. But Trump can actually use that violence to continue his "law and order" narrative to try and scare voters. I mean he's been trying to convince the American public for months with seemingly little success that antifa mobs or BLM protestors were coming for them, so what better way to drive that narrative then create a situation where there will likely be more violence? It doesn't seem like it has a high likelihood to work, but when the economy is terrible and you've almost single handedly made a pandemic worse its probably better (for trump) to talk about how awful things are in Portland than what we've been talking about.

TLDR: I think trump is purposefully trying to set off a powder keg.

Counterpoint:  Portland has had 9+ straight weeks of violence, arson and destruction of property, resulting in $25+ million in damage.
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: Federal law enforcement in US cities / Portland riots
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2020, 12:32:49 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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It just donned on be today, and if someone else pointed this out then sorry for missing it, but the Trump administration doesn't really care whether the presence of federal troops leads to violence against protestors. in fact they probably hope it does.

Inserting out of town troops seemingly authorized to use methods of questionable legality against protestors who are protesting police brutality only increases the likelihood of violence, it almost guarantees it. But Trump can actually use that violence to continue his "law and order" narrative to try and scare voters. I mean he's been trying to convince the American public for months with seemingly little success that antifa mobs or BLM protestors were coming for them, so what better way to drive that narrative then create a situation where there will likely be more violence? It doesn't seem like it has a high likelihood to work, but when the economy is terrible and you've almost single handedly made a pandemic worse its probably better (for trump) to talk about how awful things are in Portland than what we've been talking about.

TLDR: I think trump is purposefully trying to set off a powder keg.

Counterpoint:  Portland has had 9+ straight weeks of violence, arson and destruction of property, resulting in $25+ million in damage.

Counterpoint: A fair portion of that violence has been on the part of officers. And the federal officers arent helping that. Which is kind of my point.

Look i'm not saying the protestors here are without blame, or even necessarily that you couldn't justify sending federal officers. Only that doing so may not actually be designed to improve the situation.

Re: Federal law enforcement in US cities / Portland riots
« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2020, 02:04:09 AM »

Online mmmmm

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Oh Andy Ngo, you fascist loving muppet. That guy is the worst.

Because he said something you disagree with?

No, because his credibility is shot. If you know anything about Andy Ngo, you know he's pretty famous for twisting the truth especially in these kinds of contexts. He's built his whole career on it and has been exposed as a liar multiple times. Kind of the Jacob Wohl of conflict journalism.

Quote
Don't tell me you actually are praising the attack on that tweet.

No, on face value, absolutely not. But I'd be careful to accept anything significant Andy Ngo offers at face value. I would be very surprised if what is happening in that tweet is the whole story, or even representative of the whole story.

It seems like a fairly straight forward video, as does the one of attempting to set the courthouse on fire.

What happened in the moments before the video clip started?   There are a wide range of possible scenarios leading up to that moment and some might put the actions of the various actors in a different light.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Federal law enforcement in US cities / Portland riots
« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2020, 09:18:26 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Oh Andy Ngo, you fascist loving muppet. That guy is the worst.

Because he said something you disagree with?

No, because his credibility is shot. If you know anything about Andy Ngo, you know he's pretty famous for twisting the truth especially in these kinds of contexts. He's built his whole career on it and has been exposed as a liar multiple times. Kind of the Jacob Wohl of conflict journalism.

Quote
Don't tell me you actually are praising the attack on that tweet.

No, on face value, absolutely not. But I'd be careful to accept anything significant Andy Ngo offers at face value. I would be very surprised if what is happening in that tweet is the whole story, or even representative of the whole story.

It seems like a fairly straight forward video, as does the one of attempting to set the courthouse on fire.

What happened in the moments before the video clip started?   There are a wide range of possible scenarios leading up to that moment and some might put the actions of the various actors in a different light.

I think the video speaks for itself.  Just more of the same from Antifa.
M
Quote
In a court filing Tuesday, federal officials in Portland said they had been pelted with bottles and feces, shot at with slingshots and fireworks and blinded by laser pointers, with 28 federal officers suffering injuries ranging from hearing damage and broken bones to a dislocated shoulder.

Federal officials said they detained and released two people over the weekend and arrested five more Monday night on charges of assaulting a federal officer, creating a disturbance, trespassing or failing to comply with an officer's order.
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: Federal law enforcement in US cities / Portland riots
« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2020, 10:11:01 AM »

Online KGs Knee

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I have to wonder what would actually happen if the federal authorities left Portland today.

Would the rioters stop attempting to destroy federal property?

Would the rioters stop terrorizing the local business owners and residents, many of whom have had to board up their shops if they haven't already had their property destroyed?

Would the local authorities take control of the situation, and make it clear that while peaceful demonstrations are allowed and encouraged, rioting and terrorizing the public will not be tolerated?

If the federal agents leave, none of the rioting stopped, and local business owners and residents in the immediate areas where the rioting has been taking place continued to be denied the right to move about freely and peacefully without fear of having their property destroyed and possibly being physically harmed, would anyone do anything about it?

And if the rioters did succeed in destroying federal property, who would pay for that? The city of Portland? Oregon taxpayers? US taxpayers?

Would it be unreasonable to suggest that Portland, and possibly Oregon as a whole, lose all federal funding if they allow federal property to be destroyed and refuse to repair it?

I'll state, again, I will never accept federal agents policing the streets, it's unlawful. But they do seem to have authority to stand guard and protect federal property. So who is going to ensure that if they leave the exact reason the feds are supposedly there won't come to fruition?

Re: Federal law enforcement in US cities / Portland riots
« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2020, 12:23:11 PM »

Online GreenFaith1819

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I have to wonder what would actually happen if the federal authorities left Portland today.

Would the rioters stop attempting to destroy federal property?

Would the rioters stop terrorizing the local business owners and residents, many of whom have had to board up their shops if they haven't already had their property destroyed?

Would the local authorities take control of the situation, and make it clear that while peaceful demonstrations are allowed and encouraged, rioting and terrorizing the public will not be tolerated?

If the federal agents leave, none of the rioting stopped, and local business owners and residents in the immediate areas where the rioting has been taking place continued to be denied the right to move about freely and peacefully without fear of having their property destroyed and possibly being physically harmed, would anyone do anything about it?

And if the rioters did succeed in destroying federal property, who would pay for that? The city of Portland? Oregon taxpayers? US taxpayers?

Would it be unreasonable to suggest that Portland, and possibly Oregon as a whole, lose all federal funding if they allow federal property to be destroyed and refuse to repair it?

I'll state, again, I will never accept federal agents policing the streets, it's unlawful. But they do seem to have authority to stand guard and protect federal property. So who is going to ensure that if they leave the exact reason the feds are supposedly there won't come to fruition?

From what I understand, the angry protesting / rioting - was already starting to die down. The Feds showing up just riled things up again - made people angry.

I get the property destruction concern...I get it. Distribute those Feds as necessary to protect those. But I don't get the impression that EVERY group (version?) of these Feds are there just to protect buildings.

Now - evidently - the mayor of CHI is open to having Feds THERE - for illegal gun incidents and to help with the uptick in gun violence. I get that.

What we ALSO should realize is that with the PANDEMIC going on - aren't just about ALL courthouses shut down / closed? To keep down gatherings? This is helping to uptick crime and violence as well.

Just an ugly mix of bad going on here.
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Good Trouble.